Who made the Hitler ad for the MoveOn contest? And why is Bush using it?

[thebigidea]

One would think they'd have to get the permission of the guy who made it.

And if they did, golly - doesn't that raise several interesting questions.

Seriously, this has to be figured out so we can pre-empt their defense of it on the talking heads shows... its going to go something like: "Oh, well we're simply showing MoveOn.Org's horrible, poisonous rhetoric."

Ok, we know that it isn't a "MoveOn.Org" ad, it was an entry in a contest that was quickly removed.

But who made it, and did they get permission from the creator?

An actual journalist doing actual investigating might be good here.

[americanstranger]

1. If I had a tin foil hat on...

...I'd start to think that maybe the RNC made those two ads.

It would be a win-win. They'd be able to bitch about it (which they did), and they'd also have it around later to edit into their new web ad (which they did).

Or am I just being paranoid?

-as

[thebigidea]

4. yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well.

Even though Moveon immedeately removed it and condemned it, the talking points blastfax set bitched about it relentlessly for several weeks.

Almost as if it were... oh, plaaaaaaaanned.

So lets find this guy!

[Kool Kitty]

11. Ed Gillespie was STILL bitching about it

on WNYC about three weeks ago. The insanity goes on and on. Think they'll discuss this on Insanity and Colmes tonight?

[thebigidea]

19. Personally, I'm still bitter over several entries in the...

... Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes roundabouts 1983. They were just WRONG!

[jbfam4]

9. kinda reminds one

of that tape they planted during Bush/Gore....

I am with you in your thinking..they did it.

[Nikki Stone 1]

12. Woodward and Bernstein probably needed tin foil hats too...

I haven't put anything past the RNC since Watergate.

[NMDemDist2]

2. i may be wrong, but I think you gave up all your copyrights

by submitting it to the MoveOn contest

course i've been wrong before :shrug:

[thebigidea]

5. you gave MoveOn the right to use it, certainly not Bush/Cheney 2004

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

3. Yeah, that was my first question.

That's how they can justify its presence in the ad. They've merely interspersed the "rage" from the ad with the "rage" of our candidates.

If you object to the use of Nazi images, you are essentially objecting to the ad submitted to Moveon.org--an ad, by the way, that was concretely and ABSOLUTELY rejected at the time.

They get a two-fer on this one: they get to implicate the dems. with Nazis by using a Nazi ad submitted to a dem.-supporting organization. And they get to denounce the use of such ads. It's quite crafty. They're waiting for objections and for the controversy to break. They can't wait to explain themselves on this one (trust me, trust me).

But now Moveon needs to locate the original makers of that ad and see if it wasn't a plant all along. I wouldn't be surprised.

[thebigidea]

6. yeah, its fairly clever

And by the time the Dem guest on a show tries to explain that it WASN'T a MoveOn ad and was removed quickly, the Scarboroughs of this world will have blurted "That's all the time we have now, we gotta take a break."

This situation needs a light shined on it. If the creator of the Hitler ad ISN'T working for Rove, then I'm sure he'd be slightly pissed at unauthorized use of his work in a Bush ad.

[bullimiami]

7. Thats a great....ANTI BUSH AD

For me it says loud and clear. Bush is like Hitler and we are lucky these people are speaking out.

Bush = Establishment in Power = Hitler

Democrats = Oppressed and Endangered = Underdogs




Oh and the slight irony of the Nazi connection after they whined so hard about it.

[Slickriddles]

15. Not fer Nuthin' But

I thought the whole Reagan Funeral Extravaganza had elements of a colorized version of "Triumph of the Will"
Also I have a fund-raising letter from the RNC that says "The ultra-liberals and the big labor bosses that now dominate the Democratic Party desparately want to SEIZE POWER and put America on a radically different course" (emphasis mine) And further "Your support today is our best defense against their vision of a socialist/welfare state where the UN would decide what is in our national interest" Hey this is politics in an age of polarization -- down and dirty. And this isn't Worldnet or NewsMax it's the RNC!!!

[tom_paine]

23. No this is "politics" in the Age of Totalitarianism: Amerikan Style

You haven;t noticed how, thanks to the Imperial Family of Amerika, Totalitarianism, cruelty, torture, and EVIL is making a comeback.

Imperial Amerika: leading the world in the opposite direction and towards Tyranny for 3+ years now.

[Slickriddles]

35. well should I take your word for it?

Tom, Simmer Down, you're likely to bust. I think I saw your "comments" on this meme on another thread where you and seemslikeadream were going nuts trying to convince roskolnikov that there is a perfect correspondence between AH and GB. Now, if you want to be the boy who cried wolf you go right ahead. But if you want to try and understand American and world politics maybe you'd back off on the certainty that you are correct, and heed what others are trying to say.

I've just got a couple of points:
1) for starters the Boston Tea Party is not an example of terrorism.
it's just destruction of property. Tarring and Feathering a Tax Man might be terroristic, but certainly lynching and the KKK would be better.
2) How do you define Totalitarian? From your posts I don't know what you mean. But I don't think Bush qualifies.
3) Fascism has a specific meaning and while I agree that the Republican Party and particularly its "religious right" (the leadership not the folks in the pews)pose a fairly serious threat to our civil rights I don't think they are about to institute fascism.
3) If you really believed this why would you still be posting here?
Why aren't you out setting up your resistance? Got Guns??

[kiahzero]

8. Good point

You may not be correct in needing permission - it could fall under fair use. But where did the "Sponsored by MoveOn.Org" line come from?

[NMDemDist2]

10. the video was submitted to MoveOn.org for their "Bush in 30 seconds"

contest. They pulled the video in a day or two when the RW raised hell about it

[kiahzero]

13. Nonono

The clip included text, in the same format, which said "Sponsored by MoveOn.org." Was that actual text, or was it doctored?

[w13rd0]

14. It was doctored...

...MoveOn didn't sponsor those ads, and none had that tagline on them in distribution. A lawsuit wouldn't be inappropriate.

[newsguyatl]

18. that's what i thought too!

i KNOW moveon didn't SPONSER that ad!

if it was doctored, this is gonna get very interesting.


anyone have any contacts at moveon? i want to get moving on this story!

[Eric J in MN]

24. It wasn't doctored. You can watch the original ad at

It wasn't doctored. You can watch the original ad at

http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/bush-hitler-ads.htm


They wrote "Sponsored by MoveOn," which it wasn't, on the theory that if it were chosen and aired, such a tag would be needed.

If they submitted a 30-second commercial which didn't say "sponsored by MoveOn," then MoveOn would have had to decide where to put those words if it were chosen.

[Eric J in MN]

22. The people who did the original ad wrote "Sponsored by MoveOn"

The people who did the original ad wrote "Sponsored by MoveOn," assuming that would be needed if it were chosen and aired.

It wasn't really sponsored by MoveOn, but that was really included in the original.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. The Moveon.org logo was not in the original video

The media added it on later.

I wonder if Move On could get them for copyright infringement, for using their logo, in order to give people the impression that they endorsed this video?

[arcos]

16. I think symbolman made one of them...

not sure if it is the one in the Bush site since I haven't seen it yet.

[symbolman]

21. It's not one that I made

I made the original that started it all - you can see it here at:

http://66.230.230.110/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20040601225012523

"Bush is not a Nazi, so stop saying that.."

I was one of the contestants (16 out of 1500) with our ARMY OF ONE ad - and went on Scarobourough's show the next night all prepared to do battle with him on the Bush/Nazi deal at MOveOn -

I was going to straighten them out, explain that I didn't do that ads, that MoveOn dumped them immediately, etc, as Joe the Scar seemed to be mixed up and thought I'd made one of those entries..

I'd even brought a prop, a baby pacifier that I was going to pull out and offer to the Repugs over all their whining..

but Joe actually LIKED out ad.. so I was stumped and didn't get a chance to blast them..

If I was the guy that did that I'd get together with MoveOn and sue the bastards.

But if they want to think that I did it, that's okay too.. still have the pacifiers :)

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

17. is it the ad

or merely the same footage of hitler that the admaker used?

[Eric J in MN]

26. it's a few seconds of the original ad (nt)

nt

[LTR]

20. The fact that the RNC would even use that in one of their ads...

...shows how out of touch with reality they really are.

[thebigidea]

29. what's funny is that the ad implies that CHENEY's message ISN'T pessimism

Mr. "Mushroom Cloud/We'll Be at War Forever" is supposed to optimism.

Uh huh.

[ElementaryPenguin]

33. Hey! ENDLESS WAR is a very optimistic message

For slimeball defense contractors!!!

[tom_paine]

25. Goddamnit...you're RIGHT!

Someone send this thread to Moveon.org!

YOU ARE CORRECT!

Rovian Dirty Tricks!

Keep pushing us, you Fat Fuck!

Some us us can't wait to push back!

[doni_georgia]

27. I emailed Move On about it, and also called Kerry campaign hq about it

The Kerry people had not seen the ad and did not know about it. Shit should hit the fan over this.

[tom_paine]

28. Only if we had a Free Press

I have my doubts. Karl Rove's Entire Dirty Tricks Operation could be laid out in front of them, proof and all, and I suspect CNN would send Whoredruff and Bushevik Mockingbird Bill Schneider out to discredit it and insult the Democrats.

Which they would do with all the relish that Totalitarian Toadies can muster.

[ContinentalOp]

31. This sets a truly mind-boggling precedent.

I mean imagine what is fair game now if this is allowed to pass. I could create my own anti-Kerry website to gather ads in a competition. "Someone" could submit a bunch really offensive anti-Kerry ads and then the Kerry campaign could use footage from those ads against Bush, implying that the ads came from republicans!!?? WTF?

[thebigidea]

32. furthermore, does this mean we can freely use footage from Bush ads?

If so, its time to put all that "optimism" shit in a blender and see what comes out.

[ContinentalOp]

34. Sure.

We should also take random posts from free republic and claim that they're official RNC statements!