Nationalize the assets of Carlyle and Haliburton!

[benburch]

I think it is time to at least discuss this folks;

When we take power again in this country, we need to NATIONALIZE the assets of Carlyle and Haliburton by asset seizure under the RICO laws. Essentially 100% of their assets were acquired due to corruption, and they did conspire to do it. The RICO laws have a very low bar for proof to seize assets, and I think we could easily cross that bar.

Discussion?

[Sweetpea]

1. Are you an attorney?

[benburch]

2. Nope...

And I don't play one on TV, either. But I have paid attention to the abuses of the RICO law, and think that just one more abuse would be a good idea in this case.

[DenverDem]

3. How about the trading with the enemies act?

These cynical profiteers must have broken many laws.

[Sweetpea]

4. If it is that easy, I am really surprised this action had not be pursued.

[benburch]

5. You need to be in power to do it.

The Department of Justice needs to initiate the action. Ashcroft would never do such a thing.

[Sweetpea]

7. Well, there you go.

End of discussion.

[benburch]

8. Read my original post.

I said; When we again control the government. That is January 22nd of next year.

[bigbillhaywood]

12. I will control nothing if Kerry is elected. The Democratic Party apparata

and their corporate masters will. I will simply have a less evil President than I have now.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. please have Nader write some new taking points

"lesser of two evils" is so over.

[bigbillhaywood]

41. I'm voting for Kerry, not Nader.

It's a tactical decision. Please don't be so naive as to believe Kerry and the Democratic Party will be this counrty's saviors. Yes, they are the lesser of two evils. I got plenty of evidence of really bad shit the Dems have done over the years. And quit trying to shut down dissent by implicitly accusing those who disagree with you of being closet Naderites. Stalinist poisoning the well is so over.

[NEOBuckeye]

6. GOP Congress.

It's also why Bush hasn't yet been impeached.

[bigbillhaywood]

15. Yeah, and I suppose if there were a Democratic congress, they'd

start nationalizing corrupt sectors of the military-industrial complex. After all, JFK took a strong stand against these interests (Sarcasm). Please, the Dems will never do anything like that.

[bigbillhaywood]

9. Excellent idea. Democrats will never do it. Companies like Halliburton

have been trading in death for years and have had sanction from Democratic administrations as well. You want that sort of thing to happen and corporate corruption to really end, you will need to kick out both parties and seriously restructure our society, political system and economic system.

As far as taking power again is concerned, exactly when did we have it? But again, good idea, but I wouldn't stop with just those two.

[Cheswick2.0]

34. What is your solution?

Please tell us all what we should do to solve the problems we all face. If you don't have a solution or a plan of action please go complain at FR. Maybe you can get a few of them to vote for whoeve you think people should vote for. Isn't that Nader's plan, to take votes from bush?

[bigbillhaywood]

42. Hey

genius, I support Kerry not Nader as a tactical decision. But I'm gonna continue to criticize his ass and try to wake people up from their daydream that if only the Democrats sweep into office everything will be right with the world. It ignores over 200 years of American political history, not to mention more recent trends.

If that makes me a Freeper or Naderite in your book, you are truly a dogmatic Party loyalist moron-- get a time machine and go join the Bolshevik Party, they like that kind of unthinking party dogmatism.

[bigbillhaywood]

43. My solution is to build alternative

political, cultural and economic organizations to both the Democrats and the Republicans, and the corporate masters of both parties who have been doing nasty shit here and abroad for many, many years.

Until such a movement has the organizational ability and sufficient momentum to oust both parties and their corporate pimps, I believe it is sometimes tactically necessary to support Democrats as a temporary defensive measure-- this year's Presidential election is a good example of such a tactical decision. The Democrats are a corporate-controlled political party with a long history of racism, jingoism and imperialist aggression. However, they are still a moderate capitalist political party. Their ideology is not essentially fascist-- I believe the Republicans are essentially fascist.

Sorry if this does not fit into your neat little Democrats good, Republicans bad, and everyone who is not pro-Democrat is pro-Republican analysis. However, political and economic reality is perhaps a little more complex than the Party loyalists would care to believe.

[ContinentalOp]

10. That's a great idea!

Use the assets to pay down the deficit, bring back veteran benefits and increase combat pay.

[NuttyFluffers]

11. I salute you, I love your thinking.

You are right, once power switches over that should be the first thing done by the president. Use law against chaos! That'd be fitting justice.

Hell, compared to a group that does what they want *first* and then check to see whether they broke the law and try to weasel out of it, we need to use law *first8 and make these SOBs pay - and pay to every last blood-covered penny.

If the GOP congress doesn't like it, tough titty, let them try to legislate/impeach their way out of it. Let's see how powerful they are when their sword and shield are gone.

Can't wait to take back the Supreme Court too.

[bigbillhaywood]

14. Wake up people, Kerry and the Democratic leadership will never do this

Democrats have been letting corporations get away with bloody murder for years, and have used CIA, FBI and military interventions on numerous occasions to protect corporate interests.

[maggrwaggr]

13. well maybe after we vote ALL the corporatist scumbags out

both Dem and GOP, we can talk about such things.

It's a great idea.

As long as the people in power represent corporations instead of the people, it'll never happen.

It's time to clean house 100% this fall.

[Senior citizen]

16. Ditto. (Never thought I'd say such a thing!) n/t

:kick:

[bvar22]

17. I would like to add:

Enron and all of the power companies that conspired in the bogus power shortage in 2001.

[Don_G]

18. Like Nixon's "Deep Throat" Said

Follow the money....

[notbush]

19. Do you realize how many of us have Haliburton in the

mutual funds we have in our 401K,IRA's, and KEO's?
You want to just give up that money? Better check your investments first.

[benburch]

20. Tough.

Your problem for investing in a criminal enterprise.

[notbush]

22. I'm guessing you have no retirement plan.

If you did, you would know that an individual has no say in what stocks are purchased by the mutual funds in your retirement plan.
Nationalizing Halibuton would be worse than the collapse of ENRON.
It's a VERY widely held stock.

[benburch]

49. BTW, you'd be guessing wrong.

I am very careful to make sure that my money is in ethical investments. Even if this means a lower yield.

[Cat Atomic]

21. That's like asking a King to put himself on trial.

It won't happen until some Cromwell comes along and forces him there.

Our laws are set up to protect the wealthy and powerful. They exempt themselves from laws expressly when they can, and they have their friendly judges let them off when they can't.

The Carlyle Group, Haliburton... corporation like these won't be dispersed until there's a revolution of some sort. They're plugged into power on many levels.

[notbush]

23. Kick

Because this idea would be a disaster.

[Yupster]

24. Haliburton is owned by

hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions of Americans.

You just want to take theur stock?

Are you sure?

[notbush]

25. That's what I've been sayin' post #19 +#22. Give me some help here!

[notbush]

26. I'm kickin' this , because this kind of knee jerk thread

doesn't take in account the average democrat.
Democrats have 401K's, they have IRA's, they own small businesses and have KEO plans.
THIS THREAD IS RIDICULOUS.

[Cheswick2.0]

35. No, your argument is ridiculous

What the hell is wrong with your thinking? Is it possible you can't find another way to solve this problem rather than continuing the slaughter in the Middle East to enrich yourself.
HOW ABOUT YOU AND OTHER STOCK HOLDER FORCE YOUR MUTUAL FUND TO DUMP THOSE STOCKS?
I can't believe you are on this site whining about losing money on the stock market when over a thousand young americans have lost their life for your retirement fund. Get a grip for God's sake.

[One_Life_To_Give]

45. Nationalize One stock, then what?

If the Major Political parties even considered nationalizing them the results on our economy woyuld be disastrous. Companies and Investors will be falling all over each other to protect themselves from the economic losses of being nationalized. In short the sucking sound you hear will be all that capital leaving the US for greener pastures.

[rman]

28. do these stockholders want to hold on to this blood money?

Besides, "ownerschip" of stocksholder isn't exactly the same thing as the owning (of the company) that the CEOs do.

[notbush]

29. CEO's don't Own the company

Pop quiz...What other company could bid on the contracts Halli got?

[Cheswick2.0]

36. who gives a shit who else can bid on those contracts?

Halliburton is doing a piss poor job. I am sure that someone could figure out how to do what they are doing and for a lot less money.

[pbg]

37. Ongoing investigations

With all the corruption investigations going on against Halliburton already, any fund manager would drop the stock like a hot poker if it were anything other than Dick Cheney's company.
And anyone who looks at the upcoming election and doesn't unload Halliburton deserves their losses.
If you choose to invest amorally, that's OK by me. Just don't turn around and then use it as an argument against prosecuting corporate malfeasance. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[newyawker99]

40. Hi pbg!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Liberal Classic]

27. Hooray for creative use of RICO (sarcasm)

The RICO laws have a very low bar for proof to seize assets...

Not that this is a good thing...

And the Patriot Act was used against a casino owner in Las Vegas. Hardly terrorism.

Feh.

[benburch]

30. A side effect of doing this...

ought to be that we will get RICO repealed. AFTER we do in Haliburton and Carlyle.

[Jose Diablo]

31. How about using patriot act to seize Bu$h's assets

I hear poppy's got a stake in a gold mine (Barrick).

While we are at it, seize the assets of the clandestine companies in the CIA to nationalize the dope/gun trade. Then slowly close it down.

Then there is the theft of the resources in the developing countries by Bechtel et al.

And then there is the assets of the fed, state, local investments in the market. I hear thats close to $55T.

I wonder how much money has been stolen in the last 5 centuries and is stashed with the gnomes in Swiss accounts. Ever notice how the 'elites' never engage Switzerland in any conflicts. Thats the bank.

[mopaul]

33. damn good idea

if vice president fuck yourself can make billions in profit off of human suffering, WE WANT SOME TOO!

[Solon]

38. Better Idea....

revoke the corporate charters for both, and distribute ALL remaining assets, minus those owed to the government, to the shareholders. Then sue the living shit out of the CEO's and Boards until they are penniless, and bring criminal charges for fraud and embezzlement of funds. That way the shareholders AREN'T screwed and the perps are punished.

[benburch]

39. The shareholders are complicit.

Why let these goons use your money?

[One_Life_To_Give]

44. Remove Foreign Investment?

Is your intent to remove foreign investment from the US?

[benburch]

47. No.

My intent is to confiscate the corrupt money that the Bush Family and their friends have stolen from the American People. It is my intent to ruin and bankrupt them, and to see them live out their remaining years in abject poverty if not in prison.

[One_Life_To_Give]

50. Alternatives?

Have you concidered criminal and civil prosecution as methods to acheive your objectives. At least that wouldn't cause all the foreign investment to leave the US.

[benburch]

52. RICO is a criminal proceeding.

Foreign investment will not leave the USA, unless you mean those foreign companies who are actively stealing money from us. And do we want them here?

[redqueen]

46. $20 BILLION unaccounted for in Iraq

I'm no lawyer but I say we go for it.

This is beyond outrageous.

[benburch]

48. And I wonder whose pockets are being lined? Hmmm?

If 80% of this isn't lining the pockets of Haliburton Execs, I would be very much amazed.

[rocktivity]

51. It is my hope that the Bush family will set a record

for having their assets taken under the Trading With The Enemy act TWICE!!!

:headbang:
rocknation

[benburch]

53. I'm not sure if this qualifies under that act.

But it would appear to qualify under RICO.

[Soup Bean]

54. Be careful.

Nationalization of private interests, no matter how much we may not like them, is a slippery slope. I feel that privately held capital is generally better than government controlled.

The potential for abuse lies with both sides. Government should protect the people and help build businesses where it can. Big conglomerations are scary and care only about themselves, but in an open society, at least we can criticize them and force them into line through public pressure.

Don't exert more government power than you have to. If you do, people will not trust the government. We're just now to the point where people are looking to the government as an instrument of the people again. Let's keep a good balance between the interest of the people and the interests of business.

[benburch]

55. Agreed.

But this is an exceptional case!