A truly weasely criticism of Michael Moore

[skypilot]

In Philadelphia there is a columnist for the Daily News named Stu Bykofsky who has been taking Michael Moore to task over "Fahrenheit 9/11", calling it "propoganda, not journalism" and such. He likes to accuse Moore of fudging the facts. He claims that in the segment of the film where Moore is trying to get the congressmen to sign up their children for duty in Iraq, one of the congressmen (I can't remember which one) informed Moore that he already had a nephew in Iraq. Moore apparently edited this out.

Is it just me or is this "I have a nephew in Iraq" response pretty fucking weasely? I'm sure this congressman is fond of his nephew but the point of the whole exercise was to see if he was willing to see his own flesh and blood running into the cannon's mouth. Apparently, he has a sister or brother who is dealing with the ordeal of having a child in a war zone but what does that have to do with him? Is he saying that he and his children are off the hook because he's already being represented in Iraq by this nephew? Is he saying that his own children don't have to spend any time considering enlistment because their cousin has them covered? By mentioning his nephew he simply sidesteps the whole issue of whether or not he himself was willing to go through the ordeal that his sister/brother is going through. Bykofsky seems to be saying that if Moore had left this bit of info in the film it would have cast the congressman in a better light. How? I think it makes him sound like a fucking weasel.

I'm sorry that I don't have a link to Bykofsky's column. His column isn't usually in the online version of the paper.

[Walt Starr]

Man, there's a strawman if ever there was one!

Fahreheit 9/11 is not journalism. That's a fact. It's a documentary.

Two completely different things!

[OKNancy]

He had a nephew in the Army

at the time of the interview, he was not in Iraq. Moore's response is on his website.

[skypilot]

5. Thanks for that info.

I'll check out the site.

[Killarney]

1. A few points

This did happen. But Moore isn't hiding from it. He has the interview with that Congressman on his website.

Also, he wanted congressmen to sign up their CHILDREN. This guy had a nephew over there. Not a child.

Also, he has every right to edit out whatever he wants. Moore would be the first person to admit that he's only showing one side of the story. We've been force fed the other side by the news for the past year.

[Killarney]

2. A few points

This did happen. But Moore isn't hiding from it. He has the interview with that Congressman on his website.

Also, he wanted congressmen to sign up their CHILDREN. This guy had a nephew over there. Not a child.

Also, he has every right to edit out whatever he wants. Moore would be the first person to admit that he's only showing one side of the story. We've been force fed the other side by the news for the past year.

[LTR]

3. The 'nephew in Iraq' WAS in the movie!

Shows that the guy didn't see it. Or went out for popcorn at that point.

Good to see so-called 'journalists' writing about things they know about.

[skypilot]

4. It was??

I probably missed it because it was so irrelevant to what Moore was asking.

[LTR]

13. I do recall the 'nephew' bit in the movie

But I went back and watched a downloaded version of it. It wasn't there.

The bootleg copy may be an older print, though. I saw it in the theater two days ago.

My bad, if not true.

But it is on the website.

Anybody else recall it being in the movie, before I go completely insane?

[DrWho]

6. moore calls it

an op/ed piece

good enough for me

It will still get the Oscar for best Documentary.

[mainer]

15. Are you talking about the first congressman?

The first guy Moore approaches -- the guy waiting at the crosswalk?

Because I do remember him talking about his family member in the military.


Please folks! Help me out here. I KNOW I didn't just imagine that bit in the film, but you're all making me think I did.

[LTR]

17. Tanner was the first guy

Talked about having children, and thought it was a good idea to enlist (lip service, perhaps?).

I do recall a congressman talking about a family member in the military. Maybe I'm not crazy.

[mainer]

7. Hey, please refresh my memory. I distinctly remember...

When Moore asked the first congressman in the film to sign his petition, I remember the man replied that he already had a family member serving in Iraq, and then the guy took one of Moore's handouts and continued across the crosswalk. I remember thinking: well, that isn't so funny. Is that the congressman we're talking about?

[porphyrian]

8. Where was Stuey's outrage at the media propaganda the last 4 years? - n/t

[Hoping4Change]

9. Propaganda is one of those very poorly defined words.

There really is no agreement to what precisely constitutes propaganda. For Stu anything that asserts a particular point of view is propaganda and many scholars would not disagree. However other scholars like Ellul who spent a lifetime studying propaganda preferred a more restrictive definition. He did not consider a film and opinion piece propaganda. For him propaganda was a carefully planned and relentless effort to shape public opinion.

[mainer]

10. Is this criticism aimed at the TV ad for F9/11?

Because it's true, in the TV ads, they don't show the rest of the Congressman's response. But that's just an ad clip. His whole response is in the movie. And nothing he said was edited out of the movie, because it ends with him walking away.

If so, then this columnist Bykofsky didn't even see the movie, did he? He's reviewing the ad!

[skypilot]

11. Oh man...

...that would be something. I've always thought that this Bykofsky guy was a dick but if he is simply talking about the ad then he has sunk to a new low--especially when he is taking Moore to task for honesty and accuracy.

[MsUnderstood]

12. whether it is in the movie or not

I cannot remember if the I have a family member is in the movie

BUT the point of the film clip and the movie is that MOORE is asking CONGRESS TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Hey Congress, if you want to send kids to war, send your kids too! Having a nephew does not count (unless this guy has raised the nephew like a son). Once more people personally experience the sadness, fear, terror, and hopelessness of having your child sent to war, then maybe they will try to do something about the war.

[skypilot]

14. That's what I felt...

...when I read the article. Why is this guy hiding behind his nephew. Coward.

[LTR]

16. Background on Mark Kennedy

He's the congressman who's nephew is supposedly in Iraq. Good info here:

http://www.kennedyforcongress.com/biography.asp

A fourth-generation Minnesotan, Mark continues his family’s century-long tradition of public service to Minnesota that began with his great-grandfather’s stint as a county commissioner in the 1890’s. Congressman Kennedy was born in Benson, Minnesota in 1957 and grew up in Murdock and Pequot Lakes, Minnesota. He received a Bachelors degree in Accounting from St. John’s University in Collegeville, MN and a Masters in Business Administration (MBA) from the University of Michigan. Following college, he embarked on a successful 20-year business career that found him helping run four of America’s most respected companies. Congressman Kennedy is also a Certified Public Accountant.

He currently resides in Watertown, Minnesota with his wife Debbie, and their four children: Charles, Emily, Sarah and Peter. Community service is an important part of Congressman Kennedy’s life. He is a Boy Scout Merit Badge Counselor and a member of: the Watertown Lion’s Club, the Tri-County Toastmasters, Pheasants Forever, Ducks Unlimited, and the Farm Bureau. Congressman Kennedy is an active member of his church, Immaculate Conception in Watertown. He also regularly attends the House of Representatives’ Weekly Prayer Breakfast.

Here's a family photo, from his website:



Hmmm... not sure if some of his kids old enough to enlist yet. If not, they look like they will be soon.

[skypilot]

18. Thanks.

I'm sure we'll still be bogged down in Iraq by the time each of those four turns 18. Let's see if any of them will step into the nephew's shoes.

[LTR]

19. I would like to know the ages of his children

Wonder what he really thinks?

[Karenina]

21. I would like to see a list

of EVERY CONGRESSCRITTER who has supported this clusterfuck which includes a "son/daughter reference" of any kid-unit over 16 and their ages- with a star to indicate if they are currently SERVING in the military. IIRC, there is ONLY ONE.

[Fleshdancer]

20. Moore was specifically discussing the draft of their sons and daughters

Anyone who thinks that having a nephew go to war is the same thing as having a son or daughter go to war is obviously not a parent.

[yield23]

22. bush=hitler the evidence

I have just come across evidence proving that Bush is just as bad as Hitler cause the patriot act and the Iraqi War are just as bad or worse than Hitler's war which tried to exterminate an entire race of people and because of him at least 56 million died. How can someone argue that Bush's so called 'war on terrorism" against the "terrorists" and Hitler's war which again caused 56 million deaths not be the same? it just doesnt make sense. conservatives are stupid.

This proves how bush is the same as hitler
1. Both Hilter and Bush are married
2. both Eva ( Hitler's wife ) and Laura have an "A" in their name and the "A" is at the end of their names
3. Both have dogs
4. The Chicago Cubs couldn't win the world Series while Hitler was in power - Bush same thing
5. both never studied quantum physics
6. neither one wears tennis shoes wth a check-mark on the shoes
7. Both goes to bed once the sun sets

[Donkeyboy75]

23. Don't feed it, guys!

[skypilot]

24. Thanks for sharing.

This thread is about Michael Moore and a columnist named Stu Bykofsky in case you hadn't noticed. Wow, conservatives ARE stupid.