Is Conason talking about you?

[ilpostino]

Excerpt from Joe's book:

"Like so much other rightist cant, 'liberals hate America' is a slogan designed to confuse and inflame the ignorant. And like many another successful frame-up, this one grossly exaggerates a small fact. On the far left there does exist a handful of annoying academics and activists -- typified by Noam Chomsky and Ramsey Clark -- whose ideas about America and the world haven't changed much since the '70s. Their politics hark back to a period when the criminal excesses of the Cold War in Indochina, Latin America and southern Africa had alienated many young Americans from our country."

Okay, show of hands: how many here at DU fall into the category of "annoying academics and activists"?

[HootieMcBoob]

1. I'm annoying

but not an academic. and i certainly don't hark. :)

[ixion]

uh, er, me, I guess

because I agree with Chomsky.

[benddem]

2. I'm annoying too

[realFedUp]

3. I try to annoy daily

especially the Bushies who want bidness as usual.

[Sterling]

4. criminal excesses

Right Joe, those days are over, politicians are clean as a whistle for sure these days. What an idiot Joe is. I used to respect him now I see that he is just another asshole with his head in the sand. Thats right move along folks nothing to see here.

[Jim Sagle]

5. I don't think Joe is the idiot here.

[ArkDem]

11. He was just retyping his fax from the DLC

don't be so hard on him.

[Octafish]

6. Publicly I've pointed out when my country was wrong.

And publicly I've pointed out when America was right.

That's my job. I'm a citizen.

Must add that I go further than Chomsky on one big thing: Why doesn't he address the JFK assassination conspiracy and its relevance to modern America? The record shows Chomsky is always quick to point out JFK was a militarist who'd probably done the same things LBJ did in southeast Asia, conveniently ignoring NSAM 263 and NSAM 273.

[bpilgrim]

7. hands raised...

us foreign policy has been BRUTAL since wwII maybe that is why the song they are singing sounds so repetative because our policies are.

peace

[tameszu]

8. Conason is someone to take seriously

His new book gives the right wing media the kind of smacking that it deserves--it's kind of blind to dismiss the whole thing just because you don't agree with it. It might just be constructive criticism...

Also note that Conason doesn't dismiss all academics and activists as annoying; just a handful. I'm an academic and there are some of us who are annoying, but most of them contribute to the debate positively. I'm not certain Chomsky does that--certainly, in my field (political theory and political morality), which is already quite fairly liberal (except for the weirdo Straussians), Chomsky does nothing to lend the liberal position more credibility.

I would classify that annoying is when your style or your absolutist form of argumentation turns off more people from your cause than it attracts--definitely a problem for grassroots movements that are focused on practical, democratic mobilization.

Edit: I really do appreciate a lot of stuff Chomsky says, but positions like his apologetics for the Khmer Rouge are simply unfathomable...

[AntiLempa]

12. Chomsky and Khmer Rouge

It has been stated many times over that Chomsky is a Khmer Rouge apologist, what proof of this do you have?

[Room101]

15. Tameszu.. I dare you to find any proof for what you say !!!

Khmer Rouge Apologist ?

[bpilgrim]

22. thats BS

"I really do appreciate a lot of stuff Chomsky says, but positions like his apologetics for the Khmer Rouge are simply unfathomable"

because he points out our support of them or the environment we helped to create that brought them about?

i know the pundits hate it when he brings that up ;->

peace

[JanMichael]

9. Right here.

You know something funny about me & Chomsky? On another board, a couple of years ago, some punk was posting Chomsky articles ad nauseum. He was being hyper critical of US policy and even had the temerity to criticise the DLC! I didn't like this "America Hater", no, really I didn't.

Man...How things have changed.

[DarkPhenyx]

10. I'm annoying...

...just ask people here. Since I am a Biologist I guess that makes me an academic of sorts too. Funny...I don't hate America.

[pippin]

18. annoying,liberal academic

i suppose i am a a liberal, feminist, AND annoying academic. the problem i have with labels is that they detract from the substance of any debate. academics and liberal democrats who are deemd annoying are usually so termed because the substance of what they espouse is often difficult to counter. so the easiest way out from those with die-hard positions is to simply stick to name calling. after all it's much easier to use tags than actually <god forbid> think.

not sure why someone like conosan thinks chomsky et al are <annoying> . . .unless it's simply because they are thinkers from another era. but where would we be if poltical theories and philosphies are treated a la mode. i suspect most of the giants of the enlightenment and liberal democracy were probably regarded as VERY annoying in their time.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. I'd rather see the enitre chapter before judging on that one excerpt

[MoonGod]

17. Yup, I'm with you...

Judging a book based on less than 100 words is a bit much.

Either way, even if I don't agree with him about Chomsky, Clark, and "annoying academics and activists," this probably does help him gain credibility among an audience that it's much more important for him to reach.

[Room101]

14. I was going to buy Conason's book, not anymore!!!

He couldn't hold a candle to Noam Chomsky, even if he was literally holding a candle. Conason kiss my a**.

[jmags]

19. I think you illustrated his point right there.

What you may fail to realize is, Conason has the chance to swing moderates into the progressive direction with this book. If he simply writes to placate the likes of some of you, no one would be persuaded to our side.

[Brian Sweat]

16. I'm certainly annoying,

but this is one liberal that does not hate America. I just hate what President Schleprock and his band of screw-ups are are doing to my beloved country.

[Aries]

20. Maybe Joe thinks this earns him "mainstream credibility"

but it just makes him sound ignorant, IMO. My definition of a liberal (not original to me) is "someone who believes capitalism can be reformed."

[HFishbine]

21. I'm one

Chomsky and Clark may have been motivated by the criminal excesses of the 60's and 70's, but I'm motivated by the criminal excesses of today. Same shit, different decade.

[ieoeja]

23. I am *NOT*.

And I recently had the same thought. When Brock wrote his Blinded By The Right confession and talked about how he came to embrace the Right in the first place. To paraphrase Brock, he started on the Left, saw the evil, decided it had to be stopped at any cost, so joined the Right's nefarious schemes.

Problem is when he got into details it turned out he was never a liberal Democrat in college. He was a member of the Socialist Workers Party. A bit of a difference there which Brock, and I seem to recall quite a few other rightwing pundits with similiar backgrounds, fail to see. There may be individual Socialists within the Democratic party, but they are hardly a dominate force.