is Tex A&M the must conservative secular unversity?

[pstokely]

have you seen the handbook of rules for Liberty University?

[German-Lefty]

1. I survived there as an Atheist

There was an atheist agnostic student group. They were fun. You may not be able to save people from god, but you can at least help them understand other points of view.

Also find try to find NOVA or check out http://cepheid.tamu.edu/ these guys are awesome. With tens of thousands of students there are cool people, it's just a question of finding them.

Hmm, I miss college. :-(

[Blue_Chill]

9. Save people from God?

You must be kidding me. If you need to save them from anything it's the follow whatever they tell me mentality. Tell them God gave them free wil and that they will offend him/her/it if they don't use it.

Problem with people is that they all need to be told what to think. If they have a bible tell them to read it and stop listening to someone else interpretation.

Same goes for atheists stop listening to lies about religion and research it yourself.

[German-Lefty]

25. Save people from "God", only if they "need" it.

Same goes for atheists stop listening to lies about religion and research it yourself.
I do. In college I hung out with Bahia, Mormons, Catholics, even some Fundies. I find religion facinating. I also was curious if these kookie religions were a threat to our democratic civilization. I've got a Muslim friend right now who is a bit out there. I'm wondering if Islam is more threatening than Christianity.

The coolest thing about the Atheist student group is that nobody told you what to think. We'd have a topic for the night, and the moderator would ask "so what do think about X?" We'd have little debates and hardly ever agree, but at least understand each other. Compare that to Bible study.

We didn't concentrate on "saving people from God", but instead talked to people and said "hey look I'm not like you, but I'm a nice normal human being with a consitant world view. My morality/wordview is based on logic and the human experience. Please respect it."

Meeting someone else that's not "insane" or "evil" or "lieing" totally forces them to come to terms with serious problems in their religion.

Then again we were annoying at times too but all in good taste. I remember selling "top 10 reasons God is better than Beer shirts".
:evilgrin:

[harrison]

2. The University of Mississippi probably fits that bill. Let's

see: Trent Lott Institute for Leadership; James Eastland is remembered there. Nicknamed the Rebels. Dixie is the official fight song. The name "Ole Miss" is actually taken from the Plantation owner's wife: The Ole Miss as opposed to the Ole Massa.

Yeah. I would say that this University is the most conservative.

[sweetheart]

3. military schools

I went to TAMU in the early 80's and that was where i voted for reagan. My experience, though certainly not having visited all universities... is that the military schools are the most nationalistic... sort of like indocrination institutes for the new american mullah army of goose stepping militarists. As my liberal blood eventually came out, i left the school as i could not stand it anymore.

I was threatened and attacked for dating outside of my race. I had rednecks take my dorm matress and collecitvely pee on it as a "prank" as i was a california "flake"... and innumerable other acts of petty hatred that now masquerades as neocon cheap labour republicanism.

Texas a&m turns out more officers to the US military than any other school including west point, anapolist and the air force academy. The combination of fundamentalist nationalism and fundamentalist god-fearing christianity is only possible in the south where people are than insane and depraved... still the legacy of slavery.

TAMU aggies define themselves by their relationship with "tu" (university of texas) and wearing an orange (School colours of tu) shirt on the TAMU campus can get you attacked. Hidden in that hatred is the loathing of austin and its liberals, and a revalling that TAMU is a land grant school, where agent orange was invented. That speaks to the pathology of TAMU, agent orange.

Old miss may indeed be worse, but TAMU and its segregated black sister school prarie view A&M are as neocon as you get... BTW, i went to TAMU in petroleum engineering where it was ranked #1 in teh nation... in the 80's west texas petroleum slump... and all the petroleum people wanted to increase drilling everywhere as what is the earth but a big oil well... evangelical militarist idiots... the corps turds at tamu.

[GOPisEvil]

4. I'm an Aggie liberal who lives in Austin...

..can't figure out where this self-hate comes from. ;-)

When I went to A&M, I was a more conservative person, now I don't even contribute to the annual fund anymore. The neo-cons have taken that place over. Robert F-ing Gates as President?!?! You've got to be kidding me.

I enjoyed my time at A&M, and I got a good education. The Poli. Sci. Dept. back in the late '80s was actually not all that conservative. They had a good mix. Now, I shudder to think who's teaching those classes...

Sometimes I think about getting additional education and a degree from somewhere else, just so I can have another alma mater to claim. But, it's always fun throwing the fact that I am a liberal Aggie in some folks' faces. I'm not alone, Henry Cisneros is an Aggie...

[sweetheart]

5. Hi there aggie...

What inspired you to leave austin when UT is there? I think the experience of TAMU depends on the dorm or whether you're off campus. I first stayed in "the commons" and then moved to "hart hall" in the centre of campus near the MSC. The people my ramp were mostly from throckmorton texas and they brought all the ugly bits of small town america with them including their guns and racism.

I hear the place has gotten a bit more extreme (living in britain now, i'm using understatement ;-) )

I first discovered meditation at TAMU by experimenting with various chemicals as one does in college... along with the religious salesmen selling every bloody religion on the planet to students from baptist nutterism to bahai'ism.... and on a particularly vivid acid trip in what is now the "bush library" from what i hear (the old enterprise space ship library) I found a book by timothy leary and another by richard alpert (ram das). Those books took me away from texas thankfully to a world wholly more happy.

I'm glad people are happy down round them parts... and on an individual basis, i can get along with most folks... just theres this nagging reality that i had really bad experiences there from what are today neocons... they've never changed.

Good luck you you austin liberal. Surely if you want to get a graduate qualification, the Texas university system can offer you a more local solution!! :-) Otherwise, i think the best mix is getting a second degree in a foreign country. The systems of learning are so different and the people so different, half the learning is contextual... and all that more inspiring.

[GOPisEvil]

6. Actually, I grew up near San Antonio.

I have lived in Austin for about 3 years now. When choosing a university, my choices were UT and A&M. When I made my visit to UT, I found the people unfriendly and unwilling to be of assistance. The exact opposite was the case at A&M. Plus, at the time, A&M looked more like a university instead of an office complex.

I'd love to study overseas! Can I crash on your couch, since you live in Britain and all? ;-)

[wellstone_democrat]

12. I took a job there...

YOU CAN KEEP IT. I have never been in an atmosphere that had a more oddly threatening undercurrent.

[sweetheart]

13. where?

Austin, San Antonio or TAMU. What undercurrent? Can you explain that more?

[wellstone_democrat]

17. A*M college station!

later I was offered one at Corpus Christi---another campus TAMU acquired recently. Oh, and for a school *dying* to diversify? Strange they open these little satellite campuses in minority areas that draw off potential College Station "recruits" eh? But, hey, what do I know, I only attended the damn meetings where this sort of thing was actually discussed right?

The corps, btw, many be small in terms of ratio to students matriculating but it is very influential culturally. And , even for Texas, the place is very difficult for the student who is different: the gay students seemed frightened overall and the homophobic slurs were open and vulgar.

Like any place that has a foundation where tradition is ALL culturally, the defense of A&M and its ways will be ardent and fast. Good for you, enjoy your little world. I'm just very happy that I don't work in it anymore. Being "elsewhere" now, I often overhear interesting things about why students transfered from A*M to here. Nothing I hear surprises me.

What sums the entire place up for me was after the bonfire deaths when one man's parents were on TV saying they were proud that if their son had to die young, he had "died for A*M"----sickest thing I've ever heard and the praise that garnered was stunning. (And, no, I didn't misunderstand, the father went on at length as did virutally everyone in the vicinity for weeks---it was my introduction to the place. Very memorable.)

[sweetheart]

22. bonfire deaths

I saw the bonfire collapse one night VERY close to the crowd watching it... maybe like 1982 timeframe.... and i wrote a letter to the battalion (school newspaper) to keep folks back from that fire... also after watching people get seriously injured putting the logs on it.

My letter to the editor is in a 1982 batt... predicting bonfire deaths was not hard. Letting them happen was typical of the TAMU culture... that same culture that hangs a huge stars-and-bars on the bonfire stack to represent school spirit.... ha!

I learned a lot about america at TAMU that i had not learned before in my naive life in middle class california. I saw intense vulgar racism close up like i never believed existed before. I saw how huge swaths of "america" are for the lack of a better word "evil". In the wisdom of one of my collegues from san antonio who used to take his hunting rifle down to the rio grande at night to shoot at "wetbacks"... on the viet nam war. "We was right to fight in viet name cuz inside every gook is a democrat waitin' ta get out."

I survived like you did, and i have great respect for any non-genetic-neocon who survives TAMU.

[melissinha]

26. My dad is an Aggie

Hey I went to Aggie pre-school and my dad was in the corps an unpperclassman to Perry.... he even had Phil Graham as a prof in economics.... but let me tell you ...

My dad says that he saw that particular bonfire weeks before it collapsed.... He told my sister that they were behind schedule and trying to catch up could be dangerous from an engineering standpoint.... since the tragedy he said that its tradition to be kept, just keep the tradition and make it a manageable size like they had in the sixties and seventies.... and he said in his day very few like 3 people were allowed to work on it at a time, and these were often people who weren't just volunteering they were people who understood teh principles of building.

Like any school, a celebrity or politician can mis-represent the school.... Perry is no example as to the character of TAMU.

[zoidberg]

7. You're wrong on a couple points

The Corps of Cadets comprises about 2,000 of the 45,000 students at A&M. Only about a third of those in the Corps become commissioned officers. During WWII, TAMC produced more officers than any of the academies, but that is no longer the case. A&M is tied with Virginia Tech for most having produced the most Medal of Honor winners outside of the Academies - a fact which justifiable instills a great deal of pride. The Corps is a very visible and important part of the A&M experience, but the school is no longer defined by that one organization.

You display the same bigotry that you accuse others of possessing. A&M is more religious than many other schools, but to call that a vestige of slavery is asinine. After 9/11, I spoke to many Aggie Muslims who said they had been treated with nothing but kindness in the wake of the attacks. I'm sure there were some instances of intolerance, but no more so than anywhere else. The FBI tracks hate crimes by university, and A&M has a very clean record. The majority of students are white, but the demographics of A&M are not very different from other flagship universities around the state. Robert Gates is making a large effort to recruit more minorities. One of his first acts (besides firing the football coach :) ) was to create the position of Vice President of diversity - much to the chagrin of many who see such acts as PC grandstanding.

I've never heard the A&M produced Agent Orange, and I found nothing doing a quick Google search. But I have no doubt that you can provide a source for your claim.

[Mikimouse]

8. You may know some, but...

I had at least three islamic students of mine ask me if I could give them temporary shelter immediately after Sept. 11, 2001, because of threats made in other classes. Inclusive? Tolerant? Not hardly, to use an old Texan phrase. It also seems rather curious that the campus in College Station is only marginally diverse. According to federal law, institutions cannot discriminate by sex, race, etc. How does one justify the 'whiteness' of the campus in College Station? With the formation of the TAMU SYSTEM, and the addition of Prarieview and Texas A&I (now TAMU-Kingsville), the SYSTEM is balanced, leaving the College Station campus as it has always been. Just another example of the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.:hippie:

[zoidberg]

11. The campus isn't that different from others

The case of those students is very sad, but I have no reason to believe that A&M students are more bigoted than more enlightened, worldly students at other predominantly white flagship universities throughout the country. You allude to the fact that A&M is in violation of federal law. Do you have any evidence that A&M is discriminating on the basis of race? The university bends over backwards trying to get qualified minority students to attend - as does every other university in the country. They've opened outreach centers in heavily populated minority areas throughout the state. As I said, Dr. Gates created a new 'cabinet' level position for diversity. How exactly are they breaking the law? It looks like plenty of universities are having problems getting blacks and hispanics in the door.

Texas A&M University - College Station
African American: 2%
Asian: 3%
Caucasian: 83%
Hispanic: 9%
Native American: 1%
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1023562<ID=1

University of Texas at Austin:
African American: 3%
Asian: 16%
Caucasian: 60%
Hispanic: 13%
Native American: 0%
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1023590<ID=1

Here's one that will shock you - University of California - Berkely:
African American: 4%
Asian: 42%
Caucasian: 30%
Hispanic: 10%
Native American: 1%
http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/studentbody.asp?listing=1023370<ID=1

[sweetheart]

16. you left out prarie view A&M

Texas A&M has a black school called prarie view A&M which does not have statistics reported like the others... considering the huge black population in that area, it is rather surpising they would all "PREFER" to go to a lower quality school... but that was always the system in that region of the south... still is. It is a way of using segregation to dilute the argument for racial integration. I'm surpised you defend the institutionalized racism endemic to that region and system.

Here's the one you left out:

Prarie View A&M University
Admissions Selectivity Rating: 60
School Type: PUBLIC
Enrollment: 5,754
Religious Affiliation: No Affiliation
Campus Surroundings: Rural
Campus Size: 1440
Year Founded: 1878
CEEB Code: 6580
ACT Code: 4202
Average SAT: 830
Average ACT: 17
In-State Tuition: Not Reported
Out-State Tuition: Not Reported

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023401<ID=1

[wellstone_democrat]

18. uh, and Corpus is in a highly Hispanic area

and just acquired as well...c'mon, I guess I can't display the "wink and nod" attitude in that system (I wasn't a student, I was employed there) toward race but look at their acquisitions, their window dressing "diversity VP!"---really, does a VP recruit? No, a real lower level staff does that. They put in window dressing which everyone paying attention "understood"

I imagine TAMU-CC is at that site but I'm late and don't have time to dig around. Guess that all those Mexican-American kids also really want the lesser option rather than go "all the way!" up to CS to the main (prestigious) campus as well.

[zoidberg]

20. I don't think you understand the way the system works

I don't think any student is going to go to TAMU-CC instead of the flagship campus just because the TAMU is up front. The university in Corpus has been around since 1947, but I'm not sure when it was acquired by the TAMU system. To suggest that the purpose of the other system schools is to maintain the whiteness of College Station is insane. The system schools are separate universities - except for the Galveston campus - so a large number of minorities at one would not help the numbers at another.

In what office did you work? Perhaps you have a special insight, but all my experience suggests you are wrong.

[zoidberg]

19. I'm not defending it, but stating it isn't just one campus with a problem

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/reports/pdf/0611.pdf page 10of137

Over 89% of students at Prairie View are black. 2.4% at Texas A&M and 3.2% at UT-Austin are black. This is not a defendable system. The state needs to treat the problem of educational equality very seriously.

But you cannot place the blame of low African American enrollment at Texas A&M on its conservative culture or its black sister school because the numbers aren't that different at similar Universities.

[sweetheart]

10. all them aggie lovers....

I'm glad you love TAMU. Clearly i had the ww2 stat and had not an update... thanks for that. I was initially liking the place myself, and i'm sure all who go there are satisfied, or they would not be there. I'm glad they cleaned up the racism track record, as at the time when i was about the place, this was not so impressive. Prarie view A&M is still the black school and TAMU white one... nobody will "SAY" it, but that is still on the ground in the east texas culture. Until both schools show a similar racial mix, i'll hold my judgement on the racial integration success.

I'm glad they're setting about making the university better. I would wish no different, as young people deserve a good university in that place. I call the vestige of slavery the racial mix in the school and the tolerance of white-gop testosterone culture. Indeed it is a religious school, and the cristian mullah's on that campus are very strong... sort of like american "medina". The bible thumping created a huge intolerance of non-christian religion... and i'm glad they don't attack muslums... geez, that's an improvement. American bullying and racism are always hidden, you know that. When you go to TAMU, you'll maybe find some things like that out. Myself, i'll not be back.... i don't have time or energy to bother discovering whether the texas-bully culture has changed, but i doubt it no matter what fancy reports and statistics you quote. That culture was in no hurry to change... it is in the presidency now. Vote GOP and go to TAMU, its a perfect combo.

I don't have a link for agent orange as it is infamous, but that was common knowledge amongst the CT's i knew back then. Perhaps wrong, but likely not... given my backroom chitchats in various chemistry labs round that campus.

[zoidberg]

14. Here's what I found on Agent Orange

But it's possible that your CT sources are more accurate than the National Chairman Agent Orange/Dioxin Committee Vietnam Veterans of America.

Agent Orange had its genesis as a defoliant in an obscure laboratory at the University of Chicago during World War II. Working on experimental plant growth at the time, Professor E.J. Kraus, chairman of the school's botany department, discovered that he could regulate the growth of plants through the infusion of various hormones. Among the discoveries he made was that certain broadleaf vegetation could be killed by causing the plants to experience sudden, uncontrolled growth. It was similar to giving the plants cancer by introducing specific chemicals. In some instances, deterioration of the vegetation was noticed within 24-48 hours of the introduction of the chemicals.

Kraus found that heavy doses of the chemical 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) could induce these growth spurts. Thinking this discovery might be of some use in the war effort, Kraus contacted the War Department. Army scientists tested the plant hormones but found no use for them before the end of the war.

Civilian scientists, however, found Kraus' plant hormones to be of use in everyday life after the war. Chemical sprays that included 2,4-D were put on the market for use in controlling weeds in yards, along roads and railroad rights of way.
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/external/usvcrp/conf2002/abs_pdf/diox-016.pdf

[sweetheart]

23. sounds good

Really i was just repeating a rumor that was repeated quite convincingly. I am SURE that TAMU had something to do with its development. Perhaps there was testing or some such. Surely a military defoilant cannot be tested in chicago, and A&M has the territory and nationalism to do so. Secret chemical weapons of the US military are NEVER properly documented as it would show the public the deep and wide USA WMD chemical weapons establishment.

Like the USA bioweapons facilities that nameless military folks i've met have been in and near, surely the developers and maintainers of the USA WMD stocks are hardly front page exposure, even today when we "don't" have them anymore.

Geesh, if finding about iraq's WMD's could be any easier... has anyone tried google? ;-)

[Lengsel]

15. sweetheart

I am currently going to Texas A&M and I am troubled by what you experienced. I am in agreement with most of which you have said on this thread. I try to explain to people the atmosphere here and why it is difficult to get african americans to apply or even want to go to this school but no one can "think outside of the box."

[sweetheart]

24. hey living aggie

I don't think there is a solution. A good help would be to recruit more students from outside the area who will increasingly be revolted by the ugly neocon voices in texas... dumb twits like me who came from california by an academic scholarship only to discover months too late i shoulda gone to berkeley.

Keep your powder dry and enjoy the heat. ;-)

good fortune, (and welcome to DU)

-sweetheart

[RoadRunner]

21. Washington and Lee University

Washington and Lee University in Lexington, Virginia has the reputation of being the most conservative school in U.S., although it's hard to believe that any school could be more conservative than TAMU. I used to teach at TAMU and the most striking thing is the rampant racism that you see there, even with some of the faculty. The local town is famous for murder trials of blacks in which the trial lasts less than two hours and the court-appointed lawyer says not a word during the trial. I'm very happy I don't live there any more.