Random thoughts re: Cons. vs. liberal

[MGKrebs]

Is this a fair statement:

Most everyone would agree that there are some people on welfare who need it.
Most everyone would agree that there are some people on welfare who are scamming.

Liberals are willing to accept a certain amount of the scammers in order to help the needy.
Conservatives would rather discard the needy in order to prevent any scamming.

I can't seem to help seeing conservative vs. liberal in almost every situation anymore. Driving around town, I assume the aggressive drivers that cut you off are conservative, because conservatives are all about getting ahead, and self-advancement - even at the expense of others. Whereas liberals, I think, generally recognize that the roads are there to help get us ALL to where we are going, so we all have to give up a little to keep the whole gang moving.

I think it is conservatives who get pissed off every time they are held up any tiny little bit anywhere. But it is also conservatives who stand around right inside the doors to the movie theater chatting, and blocking the door for everybody else.

I think it is conservatives who bitch whenever something doesn't work exactly as they anticipate it should, but at the same time, they think all this shit is free- traffic lights, sewers, baggage screeners, etc.

Liberals will win in the end. My understanding of the "prisoners dilemma" theory is that cooperation in a society is practically inevitable, and that being greedy and selfish is ultimately unsuccessful and becomes extinct.

[msanger]

1. I think it's "regressives versus progressives"

I think it may be more accurate, and more useful, to frame your ideas in terms of "regressives versus progressives" rather than as "conservatives versus liberals."

The arguement is the same, but it might help to change the labels. I think some people who think of themselves are conservatives are actually very compassionate, thoughtful people -- who happen to hold a particular set of "conservative" believes. And I think there are some folks who think of themsevles as liberals who act like assholes almost all the time.

So to me, liberal and conservative are left and right labels, and progressive and regressive are up and down labels. Folks like Paul Wellstone are progressive liberals, folks like Ashcroft are regressive conservatives.

anyway, that's how it looks to me. you might want to check out "spiral dynamics" for a more complete presentation of the regressive-progressive idea.

[xJlM]

2. I like your last statement

I can't argue with any of the rest of it, but I must say we are a long way from the place where being greedy and selfish becomes extinct.

[KoKo]

3. I know.....it's hard when you become aware of how it all breaks down.

I've had a white "unmarked" van showing up every day for a week and it's folks doing some work for my neighbors (who don't speak to us) and it has a Bush/Cheney sticker on the back. I look at it when I drive out and have to surpress urges to jump out and track the guys down and give them loads of "literature" on why Bush is an AH and he's driving the country to ruin.....

I wonder: "What's wrong with me?"

But, yes......we who are "aware of it all, affected by it all, have tried to stop it all......start to do "tally sheets" and ask ourselves what are the differences between "US" and "Them."

The choices and the awareness are causing people to be pitted against each other in America. (why our neighbors don't talk to us....but we would be happy to talk to them.) We have had Dem Campaigners signs in our yard.....and the neighbors don't like it. They are Repug. we are Dem. They "cut us off" when they saw our signs. I wouldn't have "cut them off." Simple difference between Repugs and Dems.

[MGKrebs]

4. Spiral dynamics?

Thanks for that msanger, I'll look into it.

And yeah, we sure are a long way from lack of greed. But it somehow helps my inner peace to have that as a sort of guiding principle or goal.

And i especially agree with you, KoKo. it is sad to percieve that we are not making much progress right now in working together as a society. But it might just be a perception. If ignorance is bliss, is absence of ignorance an absence of bliss?

There's a great scene in the movie Bullitt (Steve McQueen) where his girlfriend is freaking because she saw a dead body. She asks how can he deal with the violence and ugliness all the time and not become part of it. He doesn't say anything of course. But I guess we pay attention as much as we can for as long as we can, and fight the battles along the way. Nobody said it would be easy.