What will you do if Bush wins or steals it again?

[Cyrano]

I've heard a lot of rhetoric about "another civil war," "blood in the streets," and "leaving for Canada," among others.

A civil war isn't realistic as the two sides are not separated geographically. A neighbor against neighbor "war" is nihilism.

"Blood in the streets," sounds horrible, but let's get real. Whose blood in which streets? Yes, there may be very many individual incidents, but if it turns into hundreds or thousands of incidents, we'll be looking at martial law. And this will put THEM in permanent control.

Leaving for Canada is realistic and it's something I would seriously consider (assuming they don't totally seal our borders).

So the question is: What would you (realistically) do?

[actappan]

1. Move to New Zeland

They have these "Defectors Welcome" posters up in the SF Transit Kiosks.

[Reciprocity]

7. Ask for political asylum in New Zealand.

Work and live permanently in New Zealand as a skilled migrant

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/Migrant/Stream/Work/WorkAndLivePermanently

[Dukkha]

56. Sounds perfect! Work and live in Middle Earth

Who would not love that?

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

48. That would be cool.

New Zealand seems like such a nice place. It's so pretty there.

[BANGARANG]

51. New Zealand?

That's where I've been planning to go for a year now. Well, after I finish high school that is. Oh, and save your strength and don't send me one of those "Welcome to the DU" messages. I've been here for over a year, but I've just been too lazy to post.

[benburch]

2. Depends.

If he wins, legally, I will leave this country for good.

If he steals it, well, lets just say that is best left unimagined.

[number6]

3. you mean re-selected, ...watch the world go down the tube.

no way bush can be re-elected only re-selected ..:(

[DaveFL99]

4. Cry a lot

maybe he'll put me on anti-depressants as part of his new program

[Alpha Wolf]

5. Move.

We should all move if he is in there another 4 years. This nation will cease to be what it was at that point.

[goju]

6. Keep the fight going

Im not one to turn tail and run when things get tough. I really really love this country and Ill be damned if I give it up over that bunch of crooks. I hope others are with me.

[dedhed]

13. Amen, goju!

I anticipate 1 month straight of grieving for this country's dignity, along with eating Tums like they're M&M's.

Followed by 47 months of working to make sure the Democrats take it in '08!!

:bounce:

[saracat]

17. What is most Americans want this regime? If that is true, why would you

want to force them to be what they are not?

[autorank]

23. SCREW 'EM. THEY'RE STUCK WITH ME.

Gogu, I looked at my ancestors once and found out that my Mayflower dude, John Howland, along with Miles Standish, committed the first commercially motivated murder in the English settlements. Move over Tony Soprano! I wish I weren't adopted so I could fully claim this deviance. There is no way Bush or any of the clowns will make me leave. I'll just stick around, do my thing (which they don't like), and watch the ground swell grow. They will pay in 2005 or any year after that (the latest will be at the mid term elections). The clock is ticking, the noose is tightening, the ambush is set. They're done. Stick around, it's going to be great!

[SammyWinstonJack]

42. Besides that,

Where ya gonna go? If bush* is re-sElected, no place will be safe or secure in the World. Might as well stay here and fight it out.

[shanti]

61. well

half of my ancestors come from a long line of leaving places when they couldn't handle it anymore (france>uruguay>u.s.) the first time was for religious persecution, second time because the young men were being conscripted (see: draft). we are now in the u.s. it remains to be seen what happens to us now and where we'll go! i would move (and am planning to anyway) somewhere in the caribbean.

the other half were england>canada>u.s., but i won't be returning to canada...too cold!

[shanti]

62. dupe

n/t

[quaoar]

70. I'm with you, Goju

If Bush wins, it's time to put a million people in the streets to march -- and I'll be in the middle of it.

This reminds me of a time when a new pastor came into a church and rubbed everyone the wrong way. People started leaving and going to other churches. One old woman refused to be run off: "I was here before he got here and I'll still be here when he's gone."

[saracat]

8. Either way, I'm gone.

I will no longer be an American. My family came here (on my fahthers side) In 1618 and I am the last of my side. This will no longer be the country that I loved. I think the most patriotic thing I can do is to leave as a statement of alligiance to what should have been.But I pray it will not come to this.

[chookie]

9. Rather, what will *they* do if Kerry wins?

It's going to be close.

A Kerry victory will be bitterly contested. There will be NO peaceful transition of power to the Democrats, because they will fight it, they will oppose it.

If we do not expose them for what they are, and discredit them, there will be trouble.

They are also counting on us being "nice" again this time. Heaven forbid we should be accused of manipulating the election -- better to suffer an unjust defeat than not look nice. At least that's what they tell us.

[BillZBubb]

10. Those are two widely different scenarios.

If the election is stolen, we have a fractured country. There will be violence. I would encourage and participate in a national, non-violent strike. I would also encourage peaceful guerrila activities to draw attention to the theft.

If Bush* actually wins fair and square, then my cynicism about the American public will only be confirmed. I would then start working on electing a Democratic congress in 2006.

I'll stay and fight in any case. I'm not going anywhere.

[KurtNYC]

11. I've got one foot in Canada right now

I have a small business which sells nutrition software here and in Canada. Looking for sponsored Visa. They take 450,000 immigrants per year and the economy is good (relatively). The real question is Montreal or Toronto. But I'm really more attracted to what Canada has to offer than turned off by the current government/media here.

I saw some Nazi-ish Canadians over the weekend when I was up in the Adirondaks. They were bikers. I am wondering now if right wingers in Canada are told to "move to the US" or similar. Kind of the flip-side of our dynamics. And do their right-leaning citizens say "if the New Democrats win more seats, I'm moving to the U.S."?

[nose pin]

37. Unless you are fluent in French

choose Toronto. Anglophones in the Province of Quebec are treated like a hated ethnic minority.

[kerrywins]

12. Moving to Canada is not a bad idea (Seriously)

[K-W]

Europe most likely.

My girlfriend is heading off to grad school in a year anyway, and she could easily get into many european universities. I dont want to leave my family and friends, or New York, but there isnt much love lost between myself and the current US culture right now.

We might make the move anyway, I would prefer a place that allows me more personal freedom to live my life as I want to anyway.

[Walt Starr]

14. Certainly not post what I would do on a public internet message board

:evilgrin:

[shanti]

63. what the hey, walt starr

it's probably all hot air anyway, lol!

[Strelnikov_]

15. Ride It Out, We Have Already Won Either Way

Our democracy is strong enough to recover from the administration of Bush the Lessor.

The conservative era of the late 20th century is nearing it's end, just as other hyper-capitalistic era's (1920's, 1890's) ended, in economic malaise. Maybe the electorate will be sophisticated enough in the future to resist the siren call of the party of greed during better economic times.

A Kerry administration will slow the damage being done, provide for a softer landing, and allow the recovery to begin a little sooner.

Some excellent comments regarding the greed party's concern regarding their future can be found in this thread, particularly post #34.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2137094

[Dangerman]

16. Things to do...

Put on earplugs during the singing of "God Bless America" during Baseball games

(note: as long as this is George W. Bush's America and NOT the America I used to know, aka the REAL America, I WILL do this.)

[KurtNYC]

20. Joke... Did you hear Bush got mooned at a baseball game?

Yeah, he saw a major league asshole.



Big time!

[HopeArrival]

18. Try again in 2008

Just like we have done in the past. Many here must be too young to remember that there were close elections in the past. Civil war is not even an option.

[Kool Kitty]

64. A close election is one thing.

A stolen election is quite another. Two stolen elections? Maybe not civil war, but civil strife? I'd bet on it.

[qwlauren35]

19. Probably Won't Leave...

More than likely take stock in what went wrong, and see what can be done in 2008.

Do all that I can to support Obama Barack and Dennis Kucinich (hopefully as SENATORS), and do a lot of letter writing to Congress and Senate in major effort to block the worst of what Bush may do.

To start, send a letter to everyone in Congress saying NO MORE WARS. Not Iran, not North Korea, not Cuba, just say no.

Then, another letter to every liberal in Congress saying FIGHT CONSERVATIVE SUPREME COURT APPOINTMENTS.

Then another letter to Congress about vouchers.

Fight hard to make sure that the Defense of Marriage Act did not prohibit federally recognized civil unions if it got a chance again.

I'd probably try to get more active with www.moveon.org, and possibly the Green Party, in an effort to pull the dems harder to the left. Especially if it turns out that that's what costs us the election.

My mom and most of my elders live in Maryland, and they are probably not going to move. I need to be near them as they age. So leaving the US isn't really a choice until they pass on.

But in the back of my mind, I've been eyeing the Caribbean.

[Cyrano]

26. AND WE'LL ALL SING "THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND..."

If they win OR steal it, there's a good chance that we'll never see another election (at least in our lifetimes in this country).

Letters to congress, Kucinich, Barak Obama, etc.?? It will all be useless. The animals in charge don't care what we think right now. Imagine another four more years of them. Concentration camps are not out of the question.

Overwrought??? Think about Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.

[joanski01]

21. I'll be praying that certain

military commanders will take over and escourt them out -- just like they did to the President of Haiti.

[smirkymonkey]

22. Flee.

F-L-E-A, Flee. :silly:

[Jokinomx]

24. Puke

[bluewingoliver]

25. Europe, where people are still sane

I'm moving to Switzerland in a year and a half no matter the election results. Bush is swine, but I'm really not particularly fond of Kerry either. Even if Kerry wins, this country is still and will remain too far to the right for my particular tastes. :)

[Karenina]

31. You're SO SURE

you will be ABLE to get out? Just asking? :freak:

[guitar man]

27. Probably just get drunk

And stay that way for 4 years. :)


Seriously though. If Boosh gets another 4 years, I doubt any Repugs will ever get elected again. This country will have had its belly full and then some by 2008.

[SudieJD]

28. Thought About Canada The First Time..

But I love this country too much. If shrub steals it again, I think we better unit againt the repukes! Also unite and overturn the courts ruling again! How about it??

Sudie in MN

[LiberalPersona]

29. I don't know

Moving to another country isn't an option, though I would have moved years ago, before Bush started all this crap if it was an option. I simply don't have the kind of money and resources for something like that.

[Demoiselle]

30. Vancouver sounds very nice.

I used to believe that we should all stand and fight. But after Florida 2000, and watching the idiot "press" consistently duck any responsible role in our national life, I'm not so sure a dignified retreat to Canada isn't the best idea. God! I hate to even think it!
If I could afford it, I'd move to Paris.

[DaveSZ]

32. America will die

IMo

(Civil liberties and the like)

[Cyrano]

33. Sadly, I think I agree with you

Every empire in the history of the world has declined. And while we're not ready to admit we're an empire, maybe it's our turn.

What I fear most is the damage that can be done to the world by our ruling maniacs before their fall.

[kaitykaity]

34. I don't know.

Suffer?

[Karenina]

35. Just a question.

What is Plan B? There is NO WAY the PNAC crew will allow their grand dream bubble to be burst by a mere "election." They FULLY intend to further consolidate their takeover. They've done it TWICE ALREADY. The question is, will American citizens stop them?

[Unperson 309]

36. Die Outdoors.

Financially, I can't take much more. If we lose this apartment, we're COOKED. Permamently.

So yeah, I'll end up homeless.

309

[Dastard Stepchild]

38. Buy a house....

when he continues to destroy the economy, interest rates will likely plummet, and I just might get that house I always wanted.

[enigmatic]

39. I'm living in Canada now..

but I expect that if Keery get the popular vote and W get the Electoral, or somehow it can be proven that the votes again wern't all counted or "lost", then I expect a revolution in the streets...

[LSU_Subversive]

40. We really are moving to Canada. We're actually making plans.

100% chance if shrub is re-selected.
80% chance if not.

I have mixed feelings about moving out and leaving the rest of America to fight the fight without me. But I justify it by knowing that I'll always stay involved (just look at all the Canadians that post here) and that I really will implode if I have to deal with another four more years of hell.

[GaryL]

49. Me too!

I will for certain if Kerry looses. The equation changes if he wins. Btw, I beleive the only way he can loose is with a stolen election or a LIHOP event. In either case, this country is lost for the next generation so it would be time to bail.

[LSU_Subversive]

60. Good luck with your planning.

We've been checking out the housing, employment, etc. stats. It looks especially tough where we're planning to go (Vancouver), but we're lucky because I'll be an intern and my SO will be finishing a Ph.D. If you're looking for info check out the thread I started in the Canadian forum.

:hi:

[GaryL]

77. Thanks!

I'll have a look see. I may be able to finesse a company transfer if things go badly. I plan on taking my son too who is now of draft age.

[ParisFrance]

41. I will forget about America

Consider a move to western Europe, I may not leave right away if I go, but 5 to 10 years just to get my life plans situated.

[Lerkfish]

43. try to protect my family as best i could before being..

..drug away in chains for having non-bush thoughts.
--trying like hell to avoid having a 666 ID chip implanted in me or my family.
-- praying for the safety of the world, if bushco is this bad NOW, when they're at least TRYING to get reelected, if they are reelected, there is nothing to stop them from regime-changing the middle east and incurring thousands, if not millions of needless deaths.

or. i'll just buy a package of oreos and eat until the sugar put me intoi a diabetic coa

[Ann Arbor Dem]

44. I'd have to really think hard and long about it...

...but I would probably move to Brazil.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

47. I bet DNC

or some other major organization will definitely get lawyers involved. I really only think Bush can win if he cheats. I'm not sure what would happen if he wins. I think some rioting will definitely happen. Personally, I have a family and my husband is planning on going back to school for a different career next year. I'd only leave if things got really bad.

[gulliver]

45. Buy put options. Al Qaeda will attack almost immediately, IMO.

During the election, Al Qaeda may lay low to increase Bush's election chances. But if Bush were to win, Al Qaeda would rejoice. They would then strike while the iron is hot. A president as good for America's enemies as Bush comes along very rarely. Al Qaeda would not waste four years of a Bush presidency when they stand to gain so much from it.

[usregimechange]

46. Say I did all I could to prevent it..... nt

[Mr_Spock]

50. If the War Criminal somehow gets elected by a significant majority

of his brain-dead drones, there isn't much that can be done except reorganize. If he steals it or "fear pedals" his way in - I expect there are many out there - including old-school conservative Republicans who will possibly create some chaos. I will not speak out against it because - well, read my signature!!

[Sahjhan]

52. I'm five hours away from Canada.

They'd be getting another citizen if Bush were to steal the election again.

[playahata1]

53. Stand and fight.

I am not the most aggressive/outspoken person in the world as it is, but leaving the country is not an option for me. I do not have the money, the connections, or the inclination/desire to do so, Bush or no Bush.

That does not mean, however, that I -- let alone more others than a lot of us are willing to admit -- will passively accept what is going on. If I leave, if anyone else leaves, we're simply conceding this nation to the fascists. Despite the presence of apathy and acquiescence, I have to believe that there is more than enough resistance and resentment in this country to undermine the neoconservatives. As my brother told me a couple of years ago, there is just too much diversity -- in race, ethnicity, religion, culture, lifestyle, etc. -- in this country for Americans to just knuckle under to the BFEE.

There has to be SOMEONE out there who is willing to stand up against this evil regime. I have my enslaved and Jim-Crowed ancestors' example to follow, for one thing. The American Revolution is also foremost in my mind. All of us Americans have an example of someone -- immigrant, brought over in chains, or indigenous -- who was willing to put it all on the line against the powers that be. Do We, The People, 2004, have what it takes to fight the powers that be? Peace.

[BANGARANG]

54. Huzzah!

Wonderful post, chum.

[playahata1]

55. Thanks.

:)

[GRocky]

57. Try to get arrested for exercising my 1st amendment rights.

If that can't excite the people into action, I guess I'd be better off rotting in jail or getting executed.

[JSJ]

58. like all courageous and good people thru-out history...

...I will stay and fight for the nation's honor.

[NextWave]

59. I'd stay

I'd stick around and tough it out. They don't deserve to be rewarded for their actions by us giving up.

I am not one of those who left the land
to the mercy of its enemies.
Their flattery leaves me cold,
my songs are not for them to praise.


But I pity the exile's lot.
Like a felon, like a man half-dead,
dark is your path, wanderer;
wormwood infects your foreign bread.
-Anna Akhmatova

[JSJ]

65. very nice and appropos verse, nextwave- and- welcome to DU! n/t

[NextWave]

66. thanks

thanks, ive been visiting the site for some time now, so i already feel at home

[LiberalTechie1337]

67. One thing is for sure, I'm staying put

I won't give the Neocons the satisfaction of my emmigration. If we all leave, then that will make it all the more easier for BushCo to turn the United States into the next Nazi Germany. I fear that once he controls the Persian Gulf oil supply, he could make an attempt at world domination. It really wouldnt surprise me, dictators like Shrub are never satisfied and always want more.

[jukes]

68. blood in the streets is their tactic

think strategically.


equ i fax.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. No way...no how it could happen. And if it does, I'm staying and fighting

for the restoration of Democracy. :hi:

[bobbieinok]

71. and what are those of us over 60 with health problems supposed

to do?

If I were younger, do not think I would leave. Just repeat the 60s.....with the media and the courts against the protestors.

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. Keep up the good fight...that's what we're all supposed to do. Yes

I'm 34, but I suffer from rheumatoid arthritis and digestive disorders...It's still my country. And I will fight to get it back for my kids. :hi:

[0007]

72. Keep fighting and try to live through it!

[OnionPatch]

73. We were thinking Canada

But now that you mentioned New Zealand....Hmmmmm....I'll have to investigate. What if they're worst than here? I want to be sure where we go is to the left further than we are.
As for staying and fighting, I'm pretty sure you can still vote no matter where in the world you live if you are an American.

[mopinko]

74. strike

general strike if the election is messed with in any way. if you can't stay home from work, at least stay home from the mall.

[maveric]

75. Form a resistance militia.

RWers have militias, why cant we?

[mongo]

76. Wait for them to take me to jail

for being an evil pornographer. After that, write and try to avoid Bubba.