Is Astroturfing wrong?

[trumad]

It seems to me that a short while back we all got a little bent when repuke organizations were filling the Op-Ed's with Astroturfed stories.

Have times changed and is this a tactic that the Dems can now use?

[ibegurpard]

1. I think its counterproductive not wrong

If someone gets wind of it then it can have the effect of discrediting the outcry about an issue. Having said that, I see nothing wrong with providing some points to highlight in letters.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. I think it is dead wrong.

It is a lie. A lie is a untruth, told to coerce someone to a point of view they would not normally form on their own. That is wrong on so many levels.

Bruce, being the nice Jersey boy that he is, should do the nice Jersey boy thing and tell those people to go fuck themselves. After all, such a suggestion is, in NJ, a term of endearment.

[LittleApple81]

3. I am sure you are talking about the Moveon.org Fox letter writing

page. If you don't want to use the astroturf, they give you the opportunity to use your own.
But I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, some of the liberals are not exactly very articulate or in love with letter writing. If they wish to participate in this campaign, astroturf makes it easier for them. When you read the exact same letter in hundreds of papers, though, it gives the impression of a lot of dittoheads just following like sheep.
So for some activitists it might be a choice between not participating in a campaign (because they will never write an original letter) and using astroturf to express their feelings.
I am leaning towards using the astroturf, as much as it offends me when I see it used.

[trumad]

5. Well

Replace in that explanation the word "Republicans" and you got an er explanation for why it's OK to use Astroturfing. I'm not getting on you for it but we Libs are being a bit hypocritical in our use of Astroturfing. Trust me, when Josh Marshall started doing stories on it (Astroturfing) and raised our awareness to it, we Dems were outraged.

[LittleApple81]

7. I agree, but I become all convoluted about this... because I like to

write my own letters, flawed as they may be... But would love to have more people participate. And the repugs are very successful with their astroturf... Heck, I don't know. The best compliment is imitation, so I guess if we do astroturf we are lowering to the repug level... but at least we get some coverage on the papers.

I guess I should stay out of the discussion because I am not able to hold onto my "high moral principles" about this.

So, goodbye to your thread. You have a valid point but I am too conflicted to argue intelligently.

[GOPisEvil]

4. I think it limits the effectiveness of the campaign.

I think a group mentioning "talking points" to be included in letters is fine, since those leave ultimate language the choice of the writer. However, I think form letters are counter-productive.

[denverbill]

6. I guess you know my opinion.

My opinion of astroturf hasn't changed since January 2003 when 'demonstrating genuine leadership' letters were plastered in every newspaper in the country.

[trumad]

8. I agree with you hence my thread....

Oh, and the dude who told you to stick it up your ass.... Deep thinker eh?

[denverbill]

11. I was really, really pissed about the Republican turf.

I wrote several letters to local newspapers either berating them for running the letters or warning them about other astroturf. And then to see an organization I respected asking Democrats to use the same unethical tricks just really threw me.

What's next? Bringing to Bush speeches to drown him out?

As to the deep thinker, well, maybe my wording was more inflammatory than it should have been, but it's not a nice thing to see the first reply to a post you make is 'blow it out your ass' followed immediately by someone 'dittoing' that post.

[proud patriot]

9. I think giving talking point ideas is okay in a list form

I personally would not use an astroturf letter
why, because my letters get published when I send
them in . I'm proud that I get published .

[GiovanniC]

10. It's Lazy

And pointless.

[Bucky]

12. Another war analogy. Is mustard gas wrong?

In the 18th century there was a debate among war scholars and military ethicists about whether it was ethical to have your lined up troops shooting at the enemy's officers instead of the enemy's lined up troops. After all, can a gentleman even at war ever really try to kill another gentleman?

The outcome of that debate was obvious. If a new tactic can help you win, you should use that new tactic because your opponents are bound to use it anyway. Astroturfing is a legitimate tactic in fighting political campaigns, but then so is denouncing astroturfing as a sign of your opponents' moral depravity and lack of community support.

All debate is good. It forces us all to love America a little harder.

[Rose Siding]

13. Identical letters lack imagination but

establishing a few points for the purposes of impact doesn't really equate with astroturf.

In fact the phrase wasn't even coined to id identical letters but the source of the letters. "Grassroots" were faked by professionals with financial interests.