ELF is suspected of burning down a Hummer dealership

[Blue_Chill]

<snip>
WEST COVINA, Calif. -- Fire raged through a Hummer dealership in the Los Angeles area Friday morning, and graffiti spray-painted on many of the damaged vehicles indicated that the fire was set intentionally. Dozens of SUV's were vandalized at three other dealerships, prompting the FBI to investigate the incidents as acts of domestic terrorism.
<snip>

<snip>Video from the helicopter of NBC 7/39's sister station in Los Angeles showed slogans spraypainted on the hoods and sides of several SUVs, including "I (heart) pollution," "Fat Lazy Americans" and "American Wastefulness. One vehicle had the letters "ELF" sprayed on a door. <snip>

<snip>On Aug. 1, a banner was found at an arson that destroyed a large apartment project in San Diego. The banner said, "If you build it, we will burn it. ELF."
<snip>

source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/2424844/detail.html

If homeland security can't stop these guys we are in serious trouble. Thoughts?

[Fovea]

1. Welcome to Homeland security...

It is not smart enough to stop domestic terrorists (or remember, they could be freedom fighters if the Republicans endorse them) or interdict foreign terrorists. Goddess knows what we will do when the real terrorism starts.

[Occulus]

2. Gawd.

Could they do any more damage to their cause? I mean, really....

[Blue_Chill]

13. I agree

I am a enviromentalist which is why I dislike this group. ELF and ALF are harmful to the causes they claim to support.

[denverbill]

3. ELF has never killed anyone.

I don't approve of ELF or their methods, but if you truly think HS should be worrying about ELF instead of groups that actually want to kill people, you're nuts.

Arrest them for arson, vandalism, or whatever. Calling ELF terrorists and charging them as such is ridiculous.

[Blue_Chill]

10. They are terrorists

They destroy property to convey a political message.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. That makes them vandals

That is, if ELF even exists at all, and isn't just a cover for insurance fraud, which is the likely case imo.

[Brian Sweat]

22. Who ever is doing this is criminal

I know a while back someone burned some houses they were building and made it look like radical environmentalists so they could get insurance money. Does anyone know if this ELF is on the up and up? They could just be conservatives trying to make environmentalists look bad.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

28. "conservatives trying to make environmentalists look bad"

quite probably, but my money is on the insurance fraud. Insurance fraud is *really* huge you know.

[denverbill]

30. Could be. I doubt Hummer sales have been real great lately.

What with high oil prices and the shitty economy.

But I say, rather than wait and find out the facts, let's convict ELF of 'eco-terrorism'. It's the RIGHT thing to do.

[slackmaster]

43. As someone asked on the thread in LBR

If someone burns a cross in your yard, is it terrorism or vandalism?

[Hanuman]

63. Really think this is insurance fraud?

Hummers are THE hot item right now, seems like they could sell them...

And you know, I was going to throw my 2 cents in and say they should not be charged as terrorists, I started writing it out and defending it, then I had to stop and really ask myself,

What's the difference between ELF torching a dealership to convey an environmental message and an Al Queda splinter cell from, oh, I don't know- setting a forest fire and claiming responsibility?

Both have destroyed in the name of a political ideal. I can't honestly say there's a real difference other than the fact that ELF does not intend to kill people- but Al Queda usually does intend to kill. Al Queda's agenda is far more radical and deadly, but the basic concepts of the act is a similar one.

Hmmm...

[Robb]

64. Want to stop people from buying the new Hummer?

Do what I did. I killed a prospective deal in its tracks. Fellow I know with both the money and the small ego to want one, specifically yellow.

Drove up to the restaurant on his test drive, I walked out and said "Wow, that really reminds me of the old Volkwagen "Thing"... you?"

:)

Just call me Killjoy.

[denverbill]

27. WTF? So, if I 'destroy property' to make a political point,

I'm a terrorist too? Why the hell weren't the nuns who chipped at the missile silos with hammers sentenced for 'terrorism' then? When American Indians throw paint on a statue of Columbus, should they get life for 'terrorism'? How about PETA activists throwing paint on furs? Life for them too?

Blowing up a fucking building and killing people is terrorism. Destruction of property is destruction of property. It's stupid, and criminal, but it's NOT terrorism. Arson is a serious fucking crime. Don't let Rush convince you otherwise.

[Blue_Chill]

32. Calm down buddy

1- I'm not demanding anyone get life in prison.

2- Paint won't kill you fire can. The crimes ELF is accused of are much more serious then throwing paint.

3- ELF is a group that conspires to break the law and destroy property. They do it on a large enough scale to be considered terrorists in my book and by the FBI.

I BTW am an enviromentalist and despise these groups for setting our cause back with every moronic crime they commit.

[Cocoa]

4. Department of Hummer Security

:-)

[Blue_Chill]

7. lol!

nice :D

[pbeal]

5. since these are more than likely white upper middle class people

Our Homeland security is set up to harass nonwhite foreigners.

[Clete]

9. So I parked next to a Hummer at my bank yesterday.

It took up two parking spaces because it was too wide for an ordinary parking space that even an SUV could fit into. As far as I am concerned they should be banned in urban areas. So at the risk of applauding an act of vandalism, which I don't, I do appreciate the fact that there will be fewer of them on the road after this.

[pbeal]

14. I hate them with a passion myself

I always have to fight back the urge to Key them when I see them in a parking lot.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

24. I hear the kids like to key SUVs and take pictures as trophies

Really, keying SUVs is sort of a game, like a scavenger hunt. They post the pictures online. You know how kids are, really irresponsible. I'd think twice about buying an SUV, not to mention they are dangerous and polluting. What kind of jerk drives them anyway - oil for SUVs are half the reason we had a war remember?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. Insurance fraud

Want to make some money? Burn down your house or spray paint your SUV with the word "ELF" - bam - instant insurance fraud. After all, the number one threat to Americans is hippies with spray paint right? Gimme a break.

[Blue_Chill]

12. hippies with spray paint?

The burning down buildings worries me more then the spray paint.

BTW - good point on the insurance scam.

[haymaker]

8. Prove it was ELF,

if you would.

[Blue_Chill]

11. Oh stop it

You know very well all the info I have is the article. I'm not going undercover to prove a thread.

Let's say this, burning down a hummer dealership is not a unlikely act for this group. It fits.

[haymaker]

17. Fuck that,

your subject line says "ELF at it again" does it not? Prove it was ELF and not some dealer who sees the writing on the wall for his Hummers and record gas prices.

ELF is not stupid.

[Blue_Chill]

20. Title changed

I hope the terrorists weren't offened.

[roughsatori]

19. You posted a statement that ELF did it, your link does not back you up

Your link says there was spray paint on a car reading ELF. They are suspects, BUT so is the owner.

It really is not honest of you to post a claim in your title attributing a felony to a group, then link it to an article that does not support your title. Then when another member asks for proof you say "oh stop it" and "it fits."

[Blue_Chill]

23. There I changed it

wouldn't want to offend the ELF fan club.

[roughsatori]

31. I was going to say how mature it was of you to make your title honest

But then you make the "ELF fan club comment." I guess you too chant the new mantra"if you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."

[Blue_Chill]

33. OK fine

You're right sorry.

[roughsatori]

40. Thanks, not trying to give you a hard time

but I am cranky today. :P

[Blue_Chill]

45. Feel free to give me a hard time

If I deserve it I deserve it, I'm a big enough man to admit it.

[roughsatori]

57. ELF now has claimed responsibility

here is the link:
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/6562462.htm

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

58. Read the article, that's not what happened

"From best analysis, this action was meant to target rampant urban development, and make a statement against future area development," the e-mail stated, "but beyond that we can not speculate why this building in particular was chosen, or why San Diego as a city was chosen."

That's what the "press office" of "ELF" said.

The article also said this:

"However, the ELF, which communicates with the news media by e-mail, said it had not received a communique from the persons responsible and their motives remained uncertain."

So a guy with a website speculates that members of this "ELF" group might have done it, but he hasn't talked to anyone who claimed responsibility.

Don't believe the hype!

[Blue_Chill]

60. e-mail you want? e-mail you shall have

<snip>
The radical group Earth Liberation Front issued an unsigned e-mail Friday calling the incidents "ELF actions," and the FBI was investigating the dealership fire as domestic terrorism, Police Chief Frank Wills said.<snip>

source: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20030822-1226-wst-cardealership-fire.html

[veganwitch]

26. ELF will claim it if its theirs

they always do.

if the information about this is not posted on their website or released by their spokesperson, it is a ploy.

[Blue_Chill]

29. They have a website?

link?

[roughsatori]

34. As you know I am a "fan" so here is a link

to their official site.
http://www.earthliberationfront.com/

[Blue_Chill]

36. Odd site

nothing comes up except every night is earth night with a bulding burning.

If they have a website how the hell do they keep it running without anyone being caught?

[haymaker]

42. That pesky Proof thing

is why.

[roughsatori]

44. It is listed on Google as the Official Website

to be honest it creeps me out.

[Blue_Chill]

46. Same here

I won't be going back to it again being that I really don't need the FBI paying me a visit.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

35. no, some guy has a website

and he says that these shadowy elfs call him to claim responsibility - without this guys website, he would have a boring and lonely life indeed.

[sandnsea]

16. ELF isnt real

They don't do acts of arson or vandalism, it's always a political ploy or a fraud blamed on them. If they've never done any of this, then they must not exist at all.

Is that what I'm hearing in this thread?

[haymaker]

18. Nice reach.

just prove they did it in a court of law. Then get hysterical.

[sandnsea]

38. It's the same rhetoric every time

I'm sick of people pretending ELF has never caused any damage and that every single act is just a political ploy. If ELF is so innocent, why the need for the 'establishment' to pick on them in the first place? Why not spray paint everything in pink and blame it on Code Pink? ELF uses vandalism and arson to promte their cause and that's terrorism. It hurts the environmental movement, it doesn't help it. People need to speak out against them, just like most pro-life people speak out against killing abortionists.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

48. Can you name a member of ELF?

Can anyone? Has any of these "elves" been caught? Anyone charged?

All we know is this - when there is some kind of vandalism, and that guy puts up a screed on his website, the corporate media goes NUTS telling us about the "eco-terrorists" who are spray-painting SUVs and burning building and eating babies - oh wait, they don't eat babies.

The whole thing is such a thin front for what it obviously is - anti-environmental disinformation and insurance fraud - I can't imagine how any takes it seriously?

Does anyone really believe there are secret "ELF cells" that hold meetings and maintain websites and vandalize?

[sandnsea]

62. Craig Rosebraugh

Rosebraugh says he sympathizes with the ELF, but he says he only forwards to the news media the group's claims of responsibility for attacks.

http://www.registerguard.com/news/20010602/1a.elf.0602.html

"We must use a range of tactics, legal and illegal, violent and nonviolent," the former spokesman for the Earth Liberation Front told WW.

http://www.wweek.com/flatfiles/allstories.lasso?xxin=3512

[wuushew]

21. The U.S. Navy should sue the Earth Liberation Front

or vice versa for trademark infringement

Earth Liberation Front

or

Project
Extremely Low Frequency

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

25. ELF: Just a bunch of loser firebugs

The same kids that burned the neighborhood field have graduated to a higher level of arson. The "earth liberation" crap is just an excuse to justify their habit.

[haymaker]

39. Deep thoughts.

Well that explains it, thanks. If we had only known it was the magnifying glass crowd all along.

[Q]

41. Wow. I've never seen so many DUers march in lockstep...

...in believing the propaganda like spoonfed children. Perhaps you haven't heard of COINTELPRO? This was/is an FBI program that pulls dirty Nixonian tricks on any group that stands in the way of the (usually Republican) administration. They infliltrate the 'liberal' groups or do 'bad acts' to make activists look radical.

- No one can say yet who did this...but automatically believing the official line is extremely naive. Think about the energy CEOs currently running this country and how they've been trying to discredit those opposed to their energy/power grab.

- I happen to believe that the COINTELPRO was never abandoned as promised by the FBI. The Bush* cabal are just the type of heartless crooks that would bring it back to life.

[Blue_Chill]

47. Is it always a conspiracy?

It seems that the goverment is involved in everything you don't like.

Do they steal my socks and put mind control chemicals in the drinking water too?

[Kool Kitty]

51. OMG!

They stole YOUR socks, too? ;-)

[slackmaster]

52. Kook Kitty

They stole EVERYBODY'S socks.

[Kool Kitty]

53. Yeah, no kiddin'.

If that was the only thing they stole, I wouldn't be constantly pissed off, the bastards. :argh:

[Q]

55. No...it's not always a 'conspiracy'...

...but then again...ignoring the past is foolish. The FBI admitted COINTELPRO existed after a few incriminating documents were found under FOIA. This secret FBI program...used primarily by the Nixon and Reagan admins...was created to discredit civil rights, environmental and other groups to make them appear radical and 'dangerous'.

- I'm not saying they didn't do it...but to accept that they did WITHOUT PROOF shows how well the 'brainwashing' is working on Americans.

[theboss]

56. ELF is real . . .

. . . It's the female orgasm that's fake.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

49. thank you thank you

Don't believe the hype folks!

[chiburb]

50. I was thinking this is a perfect distraction

From the other environmental news, that the EPA is NOT going to enforce emissions controls on 1000's of plant upgrades. When the enviros howl about global warming they'll get ignored... because everyone is talking about the burning Hum-Jobs.
I don't get how so many people here assume the worst about so many things. Why not investigate the dealer's finances before blaming a radical enviro group? Doesn't fit the agenda? Requires looking at more than one side of a story? Sheesh...

[blm]

37. I think ELF is being framed...

so that environmentalists are deemed antiAmerican and radical just in time for election 2004.

[chiburb]

54. webtrainer said in LBN:

This "ELF" story plays into 2 Rethug points:


#1: homegrown terrorists (that aren't RW survivalist/white power types) hate you for your 'freedoms'

AND

#2 environmentalists are evil

Point one connects AQ-type terrorists with domestic groups, ready-made for demonization.

Point two connects Sierra-club type greens (that are against * 'Thin the forests' plan) with "extremists".

Cui bono?

[Must_B_Free]

59. ELF is a CIA front

this is a Grapes of Wrath scenario - send a ringer in to start a fight then arrest everyone., Once the first punch is thrown, noonce cares who started it.

This open the way for defining domestic political activism as a "terrorism". Liberals are the "new Jews" of America's forthcoming cultural cleansing.

If you think I'm spouting BS, you haven't been hearing the message coming from the pulpit about a new campaign to "clean up" America.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

61. ELF Claims Responsibility for Torching Dealer

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/state/20030822-1226-wst-cardealership-fire.html

No freaking way. The ELF commit arson?