Fight fire with fire (re: John O'Neill and his band of Kerry-haters)

[DemoTex]

Here are the principals:

According to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Information Packet, the Steering Committee consists of:


Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman, USN (ret), Chairman
Captain Charley Plumly, USN (ret)
Mr. Alvin A. Horne
Mr. Bill Lannom
Mr. John O'Neill
Mr. William E. Franke
Mr. Weymouth "Wey" Symmes, Treasurer

Contact
PO Box 26184
Alexandria, VA 22313
[e-mail]
http://www.swiftvets.com/

What are their problems and peccadilloes? Why is a band of officers ganging up on a gang on men (enlisted)? Who served with whom? The officers that are ganging up on Kerry did not serve on the swift boat with him. My guess is they did not even know who he was until he returned to the USA and started criticizing the Vietnam war. THAT IS WHEN THE HATE SET IN. Believe me. Been there, done that. Now is the payback from these uber-patriots (as they see themselves, vis-a-vis Vietnam). There is their e-mail address. Fire a few over their bow. For Lt. Kerry. But please, be smart!

Mac

[DemoTex]

1. Just sent this e-mail to John O'Neill and his crew

Back off. I flew 250+ from NAF Cam Rahn in 1970-71. Most on the Trail at night. US Army flying US Navy SP-2Es. You guys are full of shit. You hate Kerry because of his anti-war stand. Before that, during his tour, he was invisible to you. And just like my SP-2E, most of the crew were enlisted men. The only other officer on board was the co-pilot. I'm busting you guys. Big time. You are all full of spit and vile.

[DoBotherMe]

2. I have this fantasy

that millions of VN vets will get fed up with these attacks on a fellow vet and do something! You know good over evil...I can dream can't I. D ; )

[Old and In the Way]

3. I have never heard the antithesis to their argument against Kerry.

We all know how O'Neill debated Kerry when he returned...but really, just what was O'Neill against? Did he think that we had not lost enough soldiers in VietNam? What was his/their threshold for dead Americans....550,000? 5,550,000? At what point would they have decided to throw in their lot with Kerry? This same lame argument is being made in Iraq today. We have to support the pResident. OK, but at what point would they decide that that this is no longer operative. It really is only a matter of degrees as to when your "principles" give way to reality, I think. That sort of validates Kerry's sanity, I think.

It seems that their problem with Kerry is he had the guts to question US foreign policy. Would they have preferred that we still be in VietNam today losing a 1000 Americans/week for.....?

[Sparkly]

4. I think it's everything you said, plus "it can't have been all in vain."

I think some people can't get past the truth that the government makes huge mistakes that cost people's lives, and get their fur tangled over the concept that "they died for nothing" or "they died in vain" or even "they died for a mistake."

They'd prefer a nicer fiction than the horror of the reality. So they say no atrocities were committed, if anybody says they were they're making it up, we're proud of everything we do, Nixon is a fine president, yadda yadda yadda... And you are so right that it's the same song today, but with names changed.

It's absolutely true that it was Kerry's VVAW protests, and especially his testimony to the armed services committee, that sent them over the top. And *then* they started looking for ways to discredit him -- over his medals, over his leadership, over everything from how he steered a boat to how he used his camera.

[sandnsea]

13. The irony

Kerry is the one who made things right for vets with Agent Orange and PTSD assistance. Kerry is the one who made it possible for us to bring home our POW/MIA remains and account for them. Kerry is the one who worked for normalization and open relations so that we can work with the Vietnamese and try to move them towards democracy. Kerry is the one who is making sure these 50,000 guys didn't die in vain.

And the "patriots" still don't fucking get it.

[DemoTex]

9. O'Neill was a Nixon shill!

Nixon was not credible, nor was Kissinger, nor was O'Neill. O'Neill's testimony was severely tainted. I'm surprised he raises his head from his turtle-shell nowadays. Nixon is his only link to fame, fer Christ-sakes. Nixon and Kissinger. What a war-mongering, murdering regime. Almost as bad as Bu$h, Junior. John O'Neill loves war. He loves killing. He loves the asshole Bu$hes. Funny, they will dispense with him in the very nearby end. Enron will be his downfall. There is a link (IMHO).

[KC21304]

11. Their main argument has always been that

Kerry, by telling of all the atrocities committed was saying they were all guilty of atrocities. Kerry didn't say that. He always said it was the administration and the superior officers. That is why Roy Hoffman is at the top of this list of Kerry haters. He is the one who ran Operation Sealords, the swift boat operation.

Hoffman did not appreciate what Kerry said to Doug Brinkley about him in his book. But some of these same guys who are now saying Kerry is unfit said the same things about Hoffman years ago and as recent as last year to Brinkley.

[AWhitneyBrown]

5. Just sent them this

That River So Long Ago

Dear, dear, Gentlemen, Brave River Warriors,
I pray you find a way to heal your hearts.

Have you ever heard this song, you soldiers of the Mekong?

Gonna lay down my sword and shield
Down by the river side, down by the river side.
Gonna lay down my sword and shield
Ain't gonna study war no more...

Lay down your swords and shields. Let the river carry away your hate. The Viet Nam War is over. It was a tragic mistake. Lt. Kerry has done well. Go you and do the same.

[newyawker99]

19. Hi AWhitneyBrown!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[blm]

6. Good deal, DemoTex.

Reporting for duty.

[Bush was AWOL]

7. Scarborough is talking about the new ads with these aholes

[Catherine Vincent]

8. I work across the street from John O'Neil

I should pay him a visit with a Kerry for President tee shirt on.

[KC21304]

12. Ask him if he thinks this will get him the judgeship

he would have gotten if Bush I had been relected.

[WFF]

10. Have they talked about Bush's tour of duty in Viet Nam?

Oh wait...

[NightTrain]

14. I just fired off an e-mail to them.

To wit....

Question:

Did any of you people even know John Kerry when you were in Vietnam? I'm guessing not. You only heard of Kerry after he returned home and vocally opposed the war. Right?

I find it interesting that all but one of the men who actually served under Lieutenant Kerry have come out in support of his campaign for the presidency, while the only switfboat veterans who actively oppose him never actually knew the man during his stint in the Navy. Your little organization wouldn't be politically motivated, would it?

Vietnam has been over for 30 years. We lost, and the whole goddamned war was a lie. As you right-wingers are fond of saying, "Get over it!"

[PsN2Wind]

15. Keep up the good work DemoTex

At this point I'm still trying to figure out how to change my brother-in-law. He gave me the mantra "he was the CO, awarded himself the medals". This is someone that knows that is not true. 20 years Navy, retired E-8. Aircrew on PB4Ys, P2Vs, Willy Victors etc. He knows well that a Plane Commander is NOT a CO and I'm sure knows Kerry was in a river boat squadron and the medals were put up by the squadron CO but his hate lets him believe the lie.

[wellstone_democrat]

16. kick

:kick: for anthing DemoTex posts

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Look him straight in the eye ...

... and tell him "You know that is not true." Don't let him ruffle you in the slightest, but be a terrier, don't give up, just calmly refute every little or big lie, and let him wind himself up.

In all confrontations like this, you have to give him a way to climb down, or else you will never succeed in your goal, which is to change him. If you are calm throughout the whole thing, in contrast to him getting more and more frenetic, then when the foaming at the mouth stops and his fit wears out, he will be able to quietly admit a little doubt or grant you a point. Then just calmly accept it by saying "Yes", or "True", or something like that, scrupulously avoiding the temptation to claim any victory even with body language.

"A man should never be ashamed to own he has been in the wrong, which
is but saying, in other words, that he is wiser today than he was
yesterday". A. Pope (1688-1744) "Thoughts on Various Subjects", 1706,

Make him feel loved and wiser, not beaten up and more certain in his mistaken belief.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. Aug 17 Connecticut and Sep 12 Washington DC

Fundraising Dinner, 6:00 PM Tuesday, August 17, 2004 Aquaturf Club, Mulberry Street, Plantsville, CT.

Vietnam Vets for the Truth, LLC (VVT) is hosting a fundraising dinner at the Aquaturf Club in Plantsville, Connecticut, on August 17th. Proceeds from the dinner will benefit VVT's "Kerry Lied... While Good Men Died" rally - an event being held on September 12th in Washington D.C.

Rally: Upper Senate Park, Washington, D.C., Sunday, Sept 12, 2004 2:00-4:00 PM (EDT). (http://www.kerrylied.com/)

(added) A time to turn up, in uniform, maybe, and give them the silent treatment? The turned back?

[buycitgo]

20. honk