Anyone See The Swift Boat Vets Commercial?

[heidiho]

Did anyone see the preview of the new Swift Boat veteran commercial slamming Kerry? It's awful and I think it's going to have some impact on voters.

They have men claiming to be swift boat veterans slamming Kerry and his awards and saying he was unfit to serve as Commander-in-Chief. It's very damning.

By the way, only one of the veterans portrayed in the commercial actually served with Kerry. The others did not but are SB vets.

Disgusting is all I can say. When are we going to get as down and dirty as the GOP?

[bluestateguy]

1. Let's find some men who served with Bush in the TX Air Guard

Oh...never mind.

[Kool Kitty]

19. That's too funny.

"Hey-anybody here that remembers serving with Bush? Anyone? Anyone?" *crickets chirping*

[TiredTexan]

2. The one who claims he served with

Kerry did not. He served on the same boat, but not at the same time. None of them served with him.

We need to get ads out there explaining the lies.

[eridani]

39. Need a URL for this n/t

[Walt Starr]

3. Easy, an ad slamming an ad slamming Kerry

The swift boat veterans in that commercial all claim to have served with Kerry.

Not one of them did.

[tritsofme]

9. Is that true?

Because I saw it and they highlight the faces of each on as they talk on the picture Kerry always uses in his ads from Vietnam.

If its just a bunch of wackos who never even met him, then its just idiotic.

[MikeG]

4. How about the dentist that worked on W's teeth?

[GainesT1958]

5. Wonder if any of them...

Performed the kind of river rescue and retaliatory landing/manhunt that Kerry and his crew did? "Unfit"? No, THEY'RE unfit to say anything about HIM!:mad:

B-)

[tritsofme]

6. It will backfire

Even most Republicans don't like the questioning of a combat veterans service record.

[Rob in B_more]

26. unless we do it with humor

A real SNL like parody of what they are saying coming out before they hit the mainstream could really declaw them, by making them look like exactly what they are. Mock them first, it's one of Rove's proven methods and these guys seem llike the perfect recipients for that sort no holds barred play.

"Hi, you don't know me but I was a SB captain also just like JK and based on that fact and the large slush fund supplied to me by some friends of GWB, I intend to tell you all about what JK was like in Nam (cough) even though I never set eyes on him there nor met anyone who did(cough)."

[spooked]

7. This is depressing. You know what?

Democrats just don't have the heart for fighting these kinds of vicious attacks.

These people are EVIL. Who wants to play with the Devil anyway?

They are going to do one HELL of a job on our man Kerry.

All I can say is Disgusting!!! (and then go vote!)

[Zen Democrat]

8. Time to make AWOL George a BIG issue. They asked for it. n/t

[My Pet Goat]

10. Do you think there is any chance they will backfire??

Over the top mean spiritedness, creepiness, and all around ugliness?

[Catherine Vincent]

11. I think these swiftboard vets would have rathered that Kerry DIE for his

awards. I mean, DAMN, what more do these assholes want a man to do?!?!

[rumguy]

12. I think the thing is packed full of distortions and lies

First off, it's very vauge. You never really know what exactly they are talking about. But two things have caught my eye thus far - I'm sure there's more to pick apart.

1. Who is Van Odell? He claims that Kerry is not 'telling the truth about his bronze star." Now, what the fuck does that mean exactly? The bottom line is that Kerry earned that medal when he pulled Jim Rasmussen out of the river at personal risk to himself. Rasmussen attests to it as does Kerry's crew, his band of brothers, who served with him on that boat. So who is Van Odell. I did a google search and didn't get a single hit. I searched the swiftvets.com site and couldn't find him there anywhere - hmmmm...curios.

2. George Elliot is a weasel scumbag. He effusively praised Kerry in military evaluations calling him the "unquestioned leader" back in 1969. He flip-flopped. How much are they paying him? You got to wonder.

The whole fucking ad is a bunch of hot air and it's way over the top IMO.

It also really pisses me off...

[delete_bush]

20. Pisses me off too...

I found this on snopes.com about Elliot...

"When came back from the well-publicized action where he beached his boat in middle of ambush and chased a VC around a hootch and ended his life, when came back and I heard his debrief, I said, 'John, I don't know whether you should be court-martialed or given a medal, court-martialed for leaving your ship, your post,'" Elliott recalled in an interview.

"But I ended up writing it up for a Silver Star, which is well deserved, and I have no regrets or second thoughts at all about that," Elliott said. A Silver Star, which the Navy said is its fifth-highest medal, commends distinctive gallantry in action.

Asked why he had raised the issue of a court-martial, Elliott said he did so "half tongue-in-cheek, because there was never any question I wanted him to realize I didn't want him to leave his boat unattended. That was in context of big-ship Navy — my background. A C.O. never leaves his ship in battle or anything else. I realize this, first of all, it was pretty courageous to turn into an ambush even though you usually find no more than two or three people there. On the other hand, on an operation some time later, down on the very tip of the peninsula, we had lost one boat and several men in a big operation, and they were hit by a lot more than two or three people."

Elliott stressed that he never questioned Kerry's decision to kill the Viet Cong, and he appeared in Boston at Kerry's side during the 1996 Senate race to back up that aspect of Kerry's action.

I have to assume this is the same George Elliot in the ad. As you say, a true scumbag whose duplicity needs to be exposed.

[rumguy]

23. yep he's a flip-flopping weasel

He's lying through his teeth.

But to me the real story is who is Van Odell?

[LTR]

13. More vile than Willie Horton

That ad was the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Just evil.

These people have absolutely no shame.

Fuck John O'Neill!

[LTR]

14. Any luck of finding some of the guys from TANG?

Love to see them.

[ASanders84]

15. Smear campaign hogwash

What a bunch of slimeballs. Even if I served with Dubya in the National Guard (while he was "there"), I still wouldn't slam him in a commercial.

[imax2268]

16. Here's the ad

http://www.swiftvets.com/

just click that and it will start...

[rumguy]

17. For the most part it's just a bunch of idiots bitching about the

fact that Kerry protested the war....

Well that bothers some vets, but not all.

But there is one little nugget buried in there, one little thing that I have a feeling is going to bring these fuckers down: that is the Van Odell who says Kerry lied to get his bronze star. Now I find this charge strange - the guy who he saved backs up Kerry - he did really pull a guy out of the river! The people on his boat back him up.

Like I said in another post on this thread I google searched Van Odell and didn't get a single hit. Not one. I searched the swiftvets.com site and didn't find one reference to him there anywhere.

It's very curious, don't ya think?

[imax2268]

18. Found this...

Others, however, have been enemies for years, including Mr O'Neill, a Texas lawyer, who was asked by the Nixon administration to appear on a television debate to discredit Mr Kerry.

Mr Hurley said the other organisers of Tuesday's press conference had been involved in other smear campaigns against such figures as the Republican senator John McCain, who spent years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and the defeated Democratic senator, Max Cleland, who lost one arm and both legs in the war.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1210324,00.html

[rumguy]

22. We know O'Neill is scum - but who is Van Odell

He's the only one that makes any serious accusation in the video. He says Kerry lied about saving Jim Rasummen's life. But who is he - there is no answer - it's like he doesn't even really exist.

[charliebrown]

24. It may be curious but. If they can produce truth it can be very

Damaging!!! If they have the physician which administered to him, (which it seems they have). They say, which I guess they will have to prove, That every other commander of a SB thought he was a jerk. (oh yeah one of em agreed with JK).

I say f@ck it they are liars and I am sure all who read this agree. We are not applicable as we know where we stand. This could be devistating to any who watched the convention where Kerry played on his role as a hero.

I am not saying what they say is true but it could really damage Kerry if the moderates hear this.

I am wearing a =( tonight as I go to bed. =((((.

[rumguy]

29. If we catch them in one lie - IT'S OVER

I want to know who Van Odell is - I think he is a total fraud.

As for the Purple Hearts they were given out quite commonly to swift boaters.

"t was not at all unusual that a Swift boat crew member might be wounded more than once in a relatively short period of time, or that injuries meriting the award of a Purple Heart might not be serious enough to require time off from duty. According to a Boston Globe overview of John Kerry's Vietnam experience:

Under Zumwalt's command, swift boats would aggressively engage the enemy. Zumwalt, who died in 2000, calculated in his autobiography that these men under his command had a 75 percent chance of being killed or wounded during a typical year.
'There were an awful lot of Purple Hearts — from shrapnel, some of those might have been M-40 grenades,' said George Elliott, Kerry's commanding officer. 'The Purple Hearts were coming down in boxes. Kerry, he had three Purple Hearts. None of them took him off duty. Not to belittle it, that was more the rule than the exception."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

We get the truth out and then expose them one big lie or distortion -then IT'S ALL OVER for them BABY!

[delete_bush]

33. Only thing I can find on Odell is

that he was a signatory to this "letter" to Kerry....

Senator Kerry,

We write from our common heritage as veterans of duty aboard Swift Boats in the Vietnam War. Indeed, you should note that a substantial number of those men who served directly with you during your four month tour in Vietnam have signed this letter.

It is our collective judgment that, upon your return from Vietnam, you grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen of that war (including a betrayal of many of us, without regard for the danger your actions caused us). Further, we believe that you have withheld and/or distorted material facts as to your own conduct in this war.

<snip>

Specifically, we the undersigned formally request that you authorize the Department of the Navy to independently release your military records (through your execution of Standard Form 180), complete and unaltered, including your military medical records. Further, we call upon you to correct the misconceptions your campaign seeks to create as to your conduct while in Vietnam. Permit the American public the opportunity to assess your military performance upon the record, and not upon campaign rhetoric.

Senator Kerry, we were there. We know the truth. We have been silent long enough. The stakes are too great, not only for America in general but, most importantly, for those who have followed us into service in Iraq and Afghanistan. We call upon you to provide a full, accurate accounting of your conduct in Vietnam.

Odell was a gunner's mate.

[rumguy]

37. It's odd that he isn't featured on the swift vets site

After all, his claim that Kerry lied to get the bronze star surely is the most serious charge.

Good work though cuz I didn't even find this letter...

:thumbsup:

[rumguy]

41. They will have this O'Dell character doing some interviews tommorow

3:00 pm: Van Odell will be on the Michael Medved Show (talk radio, national, out of Seattle).

9:00 pm: Van Odell and Jack Chenowith will be on Hannity and Colmes (Fox News cable TV, national).

http://www.swiftvets.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Interviews

I have a feeling he's an undistinguished loser who is jealous of Kerry's success.

But I have found no specifics about his claim that Kerry lied to get his bronze star and save Jim Rasmussen's life. In fact, this page is all I've found period on Van O'Dell.

[progressivebydesign]

35. Remember this!!!

The idea that people who HELD THE SAME JOB POSITION as Kerry all thought he was an ass.. SO WHAT? That's like asking all the managers of fast food restaurants if some manager in Baltimore would be a good president?? HOW WOULD THEY KNOW??? They did NOT serve with him, they were NOT on his Swift Boat, most were not even serving at the same time as Kerry. Truth? What kind of truth are you after?? If the men who were ON Kerry's boat came out and said he was unfit, I'd worry... but he has resounding support (except for that psycho guy that says things that NO ONE on the boat corroborates). You have to remember... this Swift Boat group DID NOT SERVE WITH KERRY!!! AND they are financed and organized by A LAW FIRM IN TEXAS WITH DEEP TIES TO BUSH!!!! Hello?? Get it?

[heidiho]

21. I think it will do alot of damage, true or not

For the people who don't think for themselves.

How can they state that they served with Kerry if they did not?

[Tansy_Gold]

25. MoveOn or ACT or one of the other 527s ought to do an ad

showing Kerry's swiftboat supporters, then a bunch of the guys who went to Vietnam from Texas who, like the pukes that were there but weren't with Kerry, can only report on boosh's presence by way of his absence. And close with a shot of all boosh's TANG buddies who support him now. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[imax2268]

27. even more on Oniell

Sorry...still looking for this Odell guy...

Houston lawyer John O'Neill is a Republican -- as the Houston Chronicle noted the day after O'Neill's interview with Blitzer. According to the paper, O'Neill voted in the 1998 Republican state primary. But O'Neill's ties to the Republican Party extend far beyond party affiliation. During the CNN interview, Blitzer reported that former President Richard Nixon had urged O'Neill to publicly counter Kerry on The Dick Cavett Show, but there is more to the story. O'Neill was a creation of the Nixon administration, as Joe Klein detailed in the January 5 issue of The New Yorker. Former Nixon special counsel Chuck Colson told Klein that Kerry was an "articulate" and "credible leader" of those veterans calling for an end to the Vietnam War and therefore "an immediate target of the Nixon Administration." As such, the Nixon administration found it necessary to "create a counterfoil" to Kerry. Colson recounted, "We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group." Articles from the April 21 Houston Chronicle and the June 17, 2003, Boston Globe confirm close ties between O'Neill and the Nixon administration.

Beyond his role in the Nixon administration's strategy to undermine Kerry in the 1970s, O'Neill is also connected to Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist (a Nixon appointee) and to former President George H.W. Bush, according to Houston Chronicle articles from March 31 and April 21. In the late 1970s, O'Neill clerked for Rehnquist; in 1990, according to an October 7, 1991, report by Texas Lawyer, the former President Bush considered O'Neill for a federal judgeship vacancy.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200405040004

[kskiska]

28. So far the mainstream media has written them off as kooks

with a Bush connection and a political grudge.

They've got a book coming out, too, published by Regnery. All the Freeps are buying it.

If the ad stays on Faux it'll only be preaching to the choir.

[wiggs]

30. McCain and others to blame

After the primaries, BA went negative right away with the "Kerry is weak on defense" BS. At that time two republicans that I know of (McCain and Hagel) stood up and disagreed, not wanted an unfair mistruth laying around out there.

With the Swiftvets deception getting airtime, where are all the fair-minded republicans who know it is BS smearing of a veteran and fellow official? Where are the democratic veterans? Dammit, why is no one standing up and saying that a line has been crossed here, that this is pure BUNK??

I blame McCain, Dole, and all the rest for letting this outrage fester in the public mind. This stuff is easily debunked and is obviously an unfair portrayal. Kerry has friends in congress...why is no one helping?

[HarveyBriggs]

31. They are Cowards and they hate the US Navy

Remember, the US Navy certified these awards.

Shoot, the TANG, can't even certify that the lazy W ever showed up.

There is a reason we lost that war, these mealy mouthed guys are the reason.

All they are doing is telling every soldier in America that it doesn't matter if you are brave, or valliant, or you even show up for duty -- all that matters is what political party a soldier belongs to. Pretty sad when you think about it.

Let's have a Republican draft, as long as those stinking righties won't give credit where credit is due.

Start with Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Hannity, Will ... the whole lot of the cowardly drug addled bedwetters.

Harvey Briggs

[gauguin57]

32. Lee Atwater is doing a JIG IN HELL!

He's happy as a clam tonight, knowing he trained his troops well.

Lie, cheat, steal -- just get the White House for the Bushes, and, by extension, for MANCHURIAN CORPORATION -- morals, rules, civility, common decency ... that's for other suckers.

And while they're lying and trashing the reputation of SOMEONE WHO PUT HIS BUTT ON THE LINE -- and threw his body in front of flying bullets -- while Bush was drunk and coked to the gills in the National Guard ... they're telling the country they're the party of VALUES VALUES VALUES.

What a bunch of effing SATANS! They come from HELL. Evil!

[progressivebydesign]

38. Karl Rove and George Bush

are the most evil motherfuckers in America. The absolute dregs of society. Bush a Christian? BULLSHIT!!! Hell, even Atwater had a deathbed conversion and apologized for the people he hurt.

[progressivebydesign]

34. Kerry's rapid response should be...

.. an ad with the men that stood with him on the stage at the Convention. THEY should, in their own words, point out that THEY and they alone served WITH Kerry.. and why they support him. It needs to happen pronto!!!

[Must_B_Free]

36. Wouldn't you be pissed about this if you were a republican?

They're saying that that's how stupid they think you are. They think that a bunch of people who didn't even serve with John Kerry are qualified to comment on his service. This is going to backfire as another aggregious violation of trust by Bush Inc.

[soggy]

40. i swear to god...

if they're allowed to perpetuate these lies in the mainstream media, it's time we kick 'em in the nuts.

we need to release the "facts" on bush's girlfriend's abortion in mainstream tv ads. our country's got too much to lose to let the next willie horton ads scam us into another 4 years.