Is everything in F9/11 fact?

[Gothic Sponge]

A fairly liberal friend of mine sent me an email saying there were a small handful of "inaccuracies" in the film. I sent him an email back asking him what he felt was wrong, but i haven't heard back yet. What do you think?

[xray s]

1. There are a lot of lies in the film

Every time Bush speaks.

[Gothic Sponge]

2. DOH!!!!

[Poiuyt]

3. Michael Moore has posted his sources

http://michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/index.php?id=16

[Gothic Sponge]

4. Thanks!

[Bush was AWOL]

5. I think it is very factual and was common knowledge to a lot of folks

before they even watched the movie. I would say it is based on facts with Moore's opinion/spin, but everything you see did happen-I believe.

[Cha]

6. As far as I know...Michael Moore had a legion of

"fact finders" pouring over the movie before it was released and nothing is in there that isn't factual.

I know there has been a lot of speculation. In fact brian lamb said to peter zelikow of the 9/11 commission.."so that movie F9/11 was a lie?" When peter said no one left the US airspace during the ban on flights.

But I will believe Moore until if and when something is proven to the contrary.

[progressivebydesign]

7. Yeah.. I believe that Lions Gate required that..

..before they'd agree to distribute it. Which makes total sense. Not only did he have some literary fact checker, but a law firm, as well.

[DBoon]

8. But the movie doesn't say they left DURING the ban

Only that they left very soon after 9/11, when it would have been practically impossible for ordinary Americans to fly internationally. The intent of Moore's statement is very clear and absolutely true - that Bin Laden's relatives were sent out of the country when ordinary Americans were unable to fly anywhere.

Same with the nit about the Saudis owning 7% of "America". That one makes it very clear that they are comparing the level of Saudi investment to the capitalization of the NYSE - not to the value of every trinket owned by every American.

To me, the movie made a very clear distinction between facts, editorial comments, and Michael Moore's stunts (e.g., the ice cream wagon...). The facts presented in the movie look very solid. The editorial comments you can agree with or not, and the stunts are.. well.. it wouldn't be a Michael Moore movie without them.

[nostamj]

9. ONE MAJOR LIE!!!!!!

the book was NOT "MY Pet Goat" as reported by communist america-hater Michael Moore!!!!!!

the title is: THE Pet Goat!!!!!!

therefore, everything else in the film can be dismissed as LIES!!!!!

well, that's what I heard anyway.... :shrug:

[ronabop]

10. One non "fact" found that I know of...

is that a newspaper story shown in the movie has the wrong date, and wrong typeface.

Aside from that, the claimed "inaccuracies" are more about *implied* inaccuracies. For example, the mine-detonating-monkeys footage is not really mine-detonating-monkey footage. There is no Patriot Act Abuse 1-800 phone number, but there is a toll-free phone number for House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.... in other words, the inaccuracies being cited have to skew the truth in the very way that Moore is being accused of doing.

Read up:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
and the responses:
http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/20/18926/6104

-Bop

[neverborn]

11. Moore skews the truth, simple enough.

[Aidoneus]

12. Nope

Some of the things said about the Saudis are, indeed, lies. The gaping weakness of the film, really.

[DieboldMustDie]

13. Anything in particular?

:shrug:

[Blind Tiresias]

14. Take one indisputable fact away from the film

That the Murderer-In-Chief sat there like a freakin dunce for 7 minutes after he was told the nation was under attack. You see the film of him being told and you see his reaction. Unbelievable. A real leader would have immediately called together the advisors he needed (VP, Defense, NS advisor, Joint Chiefs, intelligence) and immediately set out for NYC to rally his people. Moore was right; what was the president thinking during this time? Was it about the Saudis? Saddam? Or is he too stupid to think on his feet? You can choose to believe nothing else in the film, but you cannot ignore that.

[monchie]

15. So far I've found the right-wing critiques of F911..

...far, far, far more dishonest than anything in the film.

For example, the first thing they tried to attack Moore with was the questioning of Congressmen on the street. The right wing critics would usually misrepresent this scene by claiming that Moore asked them whether they would sign up "family members" to serve in Iraq. Then the critics would point out that Moore edited out a statement from one of the legislators saying that he had a nephew serving in Iraq.

Of course Moore hadn't asked him about "family members." He asked the congressman if he would sign up his own children to serve in Iraq. He didn't ask the congressman about his brother's or sister's children, but about his own children.

This is typical of the dishonesty of Moore's critics. They often use strawman arguments -- misrepresenting or distorting what was in the movie, then criticizing it based on their own misrepresentation or distortion. Other tactics the critics have used are confusing opinion with fact, and criticizing Moore not for things he says in the movie but for things he's said in interviews or public appearances.

I've been critical of some of the things Moore did in "Bowling for Columbine" -- though I do consider them relatively minor mistakes -- but IMHO what he learned from that experience is that when you present facts and arguments that conflict with the accepted storyline of the media, you have to be sure that all your i's are dotted and all your t's are crossed. If you don't make sure that your facts are correct and not dishonestly distorted, they will destroy you.

Of course you can always get away with incorrect and wildly distorted facts...as long as they serve the interests of the Bush regime and/or the corporate media.

[Columbia]

16. I thought it was in all-volunteer military

How would you sign up your children anyway? Isn't it their decision?

[NuttyFluffers]

17. yes, pure and unadulterated, even the opinions.

all 100% verifiable fact.

purer than the most elaborate refining process modern science knows.

it is, in essence, divine.

... ;) your friend's silence speaks volumes, no?