I'd like to follow up/expand on Richard Dreyfuss' comments last night

[CatWoman]

about how America will be viewed in the history books regarding attacking Iraq, while stating as an example laws put into effect to put an end to lynching.

Richard Dreyfuss quite eloquently explained that just as America finally woke up to the evils of lynching, one day in the future maybe the country will wake up and disavow this preemptive strike policy against a country using little or no proof of its wrongdoing.

The problem is, a certain segment of this population still embraces the lynching concept -- the hate filled bigots who compose Bush's base.

Lynch mobs didn't care if a black person was innocent or guilty. They wanted blood, and any black would do. They even made a party of it. They laughed. They sang. They took souvenirs. They mugged for the camera.



You see the same disgusting behavior with our attack on Iraq. The ditto heads didn't care about Saddam's guilt or innocence. They wanted blood, and any Arab would do. They even made a party of it.

The thumped their chests, and high fived each other in orgasmic delight as the bombs fell.

Fast forward to Abu Gharib.

They laughed. They sang. They took souvenirs. They mugged for the camera.

[Cleita]

1. Right on CW.

:thumbsup:

[Melodybe]

11. I love Richard Dryfuss. He recent appearences only stregthen the

teenage crush I had on him. I was a weird teenager, I totally lusted after him in Jaws and The Goodbye Girl.

I am really upset that I missed his appearance on McEnroe, if anyone has a link to the transcript I would appreciate it.

I don't have too much to say about lynching, only that I have lived in MS since I was four years old, and I am very proud that my father marched with MLK when he was 16.

I personally feel like the neo-fascists are on the respirator, they are desperately holding on to a past that never existed and they can not stop the march forward. It is the last gasp of feudalism and religion based society, times have changed and they are falling even farther behind. I say good riddance.

Thanks for posting CatWoman.

[lottie244]

58. Anybody ever hear the song "Bitter Fruit?"

It tears your heart out if you have one.

[RandomKoolzip]

79. It's called "Strange Fruit..."

Billie Holliday's version was the best, but Robert Wyatt's is no slouch either.

[calimary]

60. Ah yes. One of white America's prouder moments. SHEESH.

The comparison is horrendous, and too true. It makes me ashamed.

I am gratified that we have eloquent scholars on our side, like Richard Dreyfuss, whom I've always had a crush on...

It's sad. SAD! Horrible! I hope and pray to God that this is an aberration in our history.

I turned to my husband today and said "you're 55 (just four years older than myself), but he had political savvy lots longer than I did). You've been politically aware for a long time. Do you EVER remember things in America being THIS bad?" His response: "Not even during Nixon."

Which is what I thought.

I'm just grateful that the really hateful people are on the OTHER side - not ours. I would be disgusted to be part of a political party that was home to such vile "people."

[Gildor Inglorion]

2. Oh, crap....sometimes I'm ashamed to be a southerner

and as a gay man I can't help but wonder, "Who's next on their list?"
But thanks for refreshing our memories.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

15. I'm only living in the South..

I'm not a southern, and never will be. I can't relate to the mentality. I was born and raised in the New England. Living in the south is like living an alternate universe for me. I can't wait to move back north. I kind of miss the cold and the snow anyhow.

[Jo March]

29. Whoa - slow down there, babyreblin

Not all of us Southerns are that way nor do we think that way. We don't have that "mentality", as you put it. There are groups in the South, unfortunately, that thrive on the lack of education and use poverty and fear to promote their racism.

We are not all like this.

I was born and raised in Alabama and have lived all over the South. It has its demons, sure, but every region of the country does.

Lynching was horrible. There is no excuse it but for every person in that picture, there are hundreds more who were horrified and fought for that kind of evil to stop.

Don't paint us all with the same brush.

If you want to experience Southern hospitality at its finest, go to Charleston, SC or Wilmington, NC. (There are others, but I can't name them all here.)

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

39. You're assuming too much from what I said.

Based on the conversations going on in this thread, I can see how you interpreted what I said. I'm speaking generally. Generally, my experience has been that I cannot relate to most people around here. When I spoke of "mentality", I meant that most people I meet around here have different priorities than what I am accustomed to. For example, religion is incredibly important to most people around here. Where I was raised it wasn't as important for some reason. I don't think southern priorities happen to be promoting lack of education, poverty, fear, and racism. The only thing I was trying to say is that I don't think I fit in down here. I'm sure if I had grown up here, I would love it.

[Jo March]

42. I don't know

I've met people who were born and raised here and left as soon as they could get out.

Religion is important to people in the South, I agree, but no more so than in other areas that I've been to. We just make it this badge of honor or a litmus test or something like that. You know - everything that religion shouldn't be.

There are wonderful areas for you to explore. I hate that your experience hasn't been a pleasant one.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

45. Don't feel bad for me...

I'm also living in a city and I'm used to living in the country too. There's lots of aspects that I don't like about where I am living. I'm sure there are lots of good places in the south, I just don't know where they are. Perhaps I would feel comfortable calling myself a southern if I lived some place in the south where I felt connected with the people. I guess I'm just not in that place.

[Jo March]

46. Hence my two suggestions :)

There are some bad areas that I wouldn't live in. I love Alabama but there are pockets of ignorance there that I avoid like the plague.

I do understand, though. Just didn't want you to think that all Southerners are ignorant, racist rednecks.

[greekspeak]

35. Granted that I do not live in a particularly "southy" city in the South

I find my current digs better than my former midwestern ones. The self-righteous piety that seemed to infuse every aspect of life in Missouri is not to be found here. I do not hear the FAUX news mantras that I knew so well back in Missouri. I see far less bumper sticker jingoism, and fewer tattered flags flying from antennas on Mini-vans and SUVs. And I have yet to have a secretary ridicule a professor in front of the department head about being a stupid democrat. I am told that I live in "the old south," that my city is an extention of Georgia. Well, it is a lot more open minded here than back in Missouri.

[JHB]

38. Don't blame (just) the south...

Those photos were taken all over: California, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Indiana... Not just ole' Dixie.

[Jo March]

43. True

Racism and hatred know no boundaries.

[noiretextatique]

55. correct...l;ynching wasn't just a southern thing

it happened all over the USA.

[jdj]

67. I just watched the PBS doc on "The Journey of Man" by

Spencer Wells, a geneticist.

We all descended from a common Adam found in Africa 60,000 years ago. Considering we are all related it makes it hard to conceive how we got where we are today.

[jdj]

66. Dreyfuss made an explicit point of saying North and South

He wasn't south-bashing.

I am so glad someone brought up his comments, because he was responding to some repuke idiot sports guy who also got applause, and he handled this situation with such aplomb (so much so that that is the only time in my life I have ever used that word, hope it is spelled right) he made the sportsbot look like a complete idiot.

[truthspeaker]

73. You are not your heritage (plus we had lynchings up north too)

Last lynching in Minnesota was in Duluth in the 1920s. And don't even ask how we treated American Indians.

Everyone of non-Native descent in the United States is a beneficiary of conquest and genocide. We should be aware of our history and sensitive to its victims, but we don't (necessarily) have to be ashamed.

[okieinpain]

3. It's really amazing looking at that picture how people can debase

another human being. and yes you're right the same thing is happening all over again.

[SemperEadem]

40. and then smile for the camera with the knowledge

that no one is going to come knocking on their door to arrest them just because some nigger was strung up and lynched.

[jilln]

4. I think that's a good point but it goes beyond what you are saying...

I think the segment of the population that is OK with inflicting harm, neglect or even torture is much higher than you think, based on the fact that we still have spectacles which could be compared to the Roman versions of entertainment.

I'm talking about rodeos, dog fighting, cockfighting and other types of entertainment in which the point or net result is to injure animals for entertainment. The circus would also fall into this category, though the abuse there is better hidden. You could make a case to include boxing too, Though in that case at least all the participants are voluntarily participating, the spectators still want to see someone get beat up. Some people enjoy violence. A lot of people.

You could also make an argument that meat eaters share this attitude, since many know how horribly the animals are abused but can't get beyond "I like hamburgers." This is the same attitude that lets people rationalize killing foreigners for oil, the me-first and whatever-it-takes and "I don't care what suffering my actions cause" attitude.

[CatWoman]

8. Let's stick to the issue at hand

I detest people who abuse animals.

I can't even watch the Animal Channel.

However, I think you're mixing apples and oranges here.

Plus I love a good steak. But I'm not about to slaughter an innocent human being in order to get that steak.

[jilln]

13. You just proved my point.

That's the attitude. You detest people who abuse animals yet you pay buy the carcasses of abused animals.

[CatWoman]

14. hey, look

I'm a meat eater.

Millions of Americans are meat eaters.

If that's proving your point, I'm happy for you.

[Eloriel]

24. Oh, for pete's sake, jiln

Yes, our food industry is out of control. The way we grow our animals for food is, put simply, inhumane. There really isn't any other way of looking at it. AND, we need to fix that, in which case our high protein food would become a lot more expensive. That's a price we should be willing to pay, tho the poor among us would suffer all the more.

But it does no good to guilt trip people (or try to) over their eating meat. It's not just insulting and counterproductive, it makes you look foolish for not recognizing and accepting a simple biological reality of the situation.

I would PERSONALLY prefer to be a vegetarian, but it doesn't work for me, and it doesn't work for millions of people because our bodies aren't capable of functioning all that well without that high quality protein. I know because I tried it, for a year or more. I know also because my chiropractor once told me that the sickest people he treated were usually vegetarians. We are all built differently, and YOUR ever-so-high-minded moral judgments of others aren't helping your cause.

And btw, one reason some if not most people "like meat" is because their bodies need it. (I think it's probably true that most of us consume too much meat, but that's another issue all together.) If you've EVER had a non-junk-food craving for something (fresh fruit or a certain fruit or vegetable, or even chicken soup or some other comfort food when you're not feeling well), you'll know what I'm talking about. A number of months ago I had a craving for kale, and I'd never EATEN kale, but I knew I needed it, and I wanted it (had a "taste" for it), and it tasted real good when I fixed it. Haven't had any since, either, nor does it sound especially appealing to me now. Our bodies know what they need, and the less corrupted they are by junk foods, the more clearly we can "hear" what they're asking for.

So stop already with the guilt trips.

[CatWoman]

26. LOL!! My Heroine!!!

Eloriel to the rescue!!!!!!

:hi:

[Eloriel]

37. Right back atcha, kiddo

You're MY heroine too. That's a powerful post of yours -- so powerful I couldn't do anything but rant at jiln. ;-)

:toast:

[FizzFuzz]

44. thanks from me too Eloriel

And I don't mean to say that I support factory farming...its yet another consequence of overpopulation (but that is another contentious thread, best saved for another time.)

But anyway, I eat meat too, I just try to moderate the amount by making other meals vegetarian. But I never did know what to say to the guilt tripping--and the guilt tripping works on me:it makes me feel miserable, but I eat meat anyway. I do feel ill and weak without it, I have a compromised digestive system and so need the concentrated nutrition that meat provides. I just try to use moderation and avoid certain kinds (veal for instance, which is farmed in particularly cruel ways.) And whenever possible, I buy from organic/free-range sources. But as you also mention, many people can't afford this option. Plus, do you know how damn hard it is to FIND organic meats? Especially out in the country here, with teeny little foodstores, you can't find organic/recycled anywhere! grrrrr. But I digress....

[Kanary]

47. Bumpersticker for guilt-trippers:

VEGETARIAN: PRIMITIVE WORD FOR "LOUSY HUNTER"

:hi:

Kanary, who knows it's just a slap in return for a slap, but, nevertheless...... :)

[Lorien]

52. I have a huge amount of respect for vegetarians

and anyone who is genuinely filled will compassion and empathy for those that cannot defend themselves shouldn't be mocked, IMHO. Such deep empathy causes a tremendous amount of emotional pain, and they are begging those around them to understand the pain and suffering that they have observed. To not act callously and thoughtlessly. It's not about "guilt", it's about understanding and compassion. I eat meat (in limited quantities), but I only buy free range, organic meat (with my VERY limited funds) because I feel it's my responsibility to honor the animals that have given their lives for mine and do what I can to ensure that they have a decent life for the limited time they are on this earth. It's the LEAST I can do, IMO.

If you feel, as I do, compassion for the Iraqi people, compassion for our sick and poor, then how does it make you feel when the Freepers laugh at the Abu Gariab photos? It fills you with dismay, it angers you, it seems unbelievable. Vegetarians feel the same way when they are jeered at and mocked for their compassion. They aren't trying to make you feel "guilty";do we try to make the Freepers feel "guilty"? No, we try to educate them, to help them understand. It's the same mindset.

[Kanary]

53. Interesting you decided to come after me, and not after the first

poster with this same thought.... you decided I'm more vulnerable, so you'd come after me???

I'm not reading past your first two sentences, as I really DO NOT NEED FURTHER GUILT.

The point is, you have your beliefs, and every right to exercise them, and I have every right to take care of my own self, and the needs that I have.

I've been battered and bashed by vegetarians who want to feel oh-so-superior, and give not ONE SHIT about me, or what I need.

Hence, the bumpersticker.

I'm no longer sitting mute for the bashings of the RW, OR the LW.

Live and let live, sweetie. It's what life is REALLY about.

Kanary

[Eloriel]

64. I agree with you totally, EXCEPT

for the silly notion that: "They (vegetarians) aren't trying to make you feel "guilty" --

The vegetarian in THIS thread was laying on a guilt trip. Go back and read the damn post.

I actually agree with all the possible reasons for going vegetarian, and I said that. I also said that *I* would like to be vegetarian. And I admire people who go vegetarian if it doesn't compromise or weaken their own health.

But the reality, as I pointed out, is that not everyone can physically handle it, despite their own moral and even spiritual intentions. Thus, guilt tripping people over their choice to eat meat is counterproductive, insulting, and not even realistic.

And guilt tripping is EXACTLY what happened here.

[jdj]

68. I'm a vegetarian, and Dammit, I want to talk about Richard Dreyfuss.

I mean, I'm pretty bummed about how visibly shaken Krugman was toward the end of the O'Reilly interview.

I just went back to the original post and re-read it, just to make sure I didn't miss anything tying this to eating meat.

Not because it is not an important issue to me, but because the man handled himself with such beautiful grace. That is, if y'all were watching the same show I was. The sportsbot said, how many chances are we going to give Saddam, he had 17 chances (major paraphrasing here) and he also said that bio or chem weapons were so small they could be put in a trash can, loaded into a pickup, and driven to another country. The audience applauded loudly. Then Dreyfuss gracefully made his argument, with interjections from McEnroe that it was bin Laden we should have gone after to begin with (someone should really jump in and tell me if it is not the same show). Dems don't always handle these situations well, mainly because the referee is crooked and the deck is stacked against us, but this one was a beauty to behold. The only depressing thing is that he said "one day..." I want it to be TODAY that people see through this lie about Iraq.

With regards to the meat/no meat argument, I think it is up to veggies to work to eliminate as much cruelty from the meat industry as possible, which is what PETA strives to do everyday. I don't beleive for a minute that meat-eaters are healthier than vegetarians, but it is possible to get sick from veganism if you don't do it right, especially if you don't get enough B-12. Primitive tribes generally got/get about 80% of their food from gathering, roots, plants, insects, and 20% from hunting (and therefore would be more appropriately called 'gatherer-hunter, not vice versa), whereas the ratio that is foisted on Americans is all about Bush's buddies and m-o-n-e-y.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

12. I've heard people say that it's ok to just bomb the entire middle east.

They don't think of Arabs as being "human beings."

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

21. How discusting

that some people have very little respect for other human life!

Isn't interesting how many people want respect, yet they are unwilling to give respect?

[Lerkfish]

36. a coworker said regarding the ABu Ghraib abuses...

"so what, its just Iraqis, who cares?". I was stunned. I knew he was a limbaugh dittohead, but still to actually stand next to someone who said that....and the worst things is, he wasn't acting hateful as he said it, just nonchalant, like those people in the lynching photo further up the thread.

chilling.

[sendero]

28. Uh....

.. rodeos? I'm sorry, I'm not much of a rodeo expert, I've seen exactly one about 6 months ago. To claim that the purpose of a rodeo is to injure animals is ludicrous. Dog fights, cock fights, ok, I agree with you 100%, but rodeos? A rodeo is merely a spectacle meant to make a sport of the skills required for ranching. Dominance of animals, yes. Cruelty or intentional injury, not on your life.

[jdj]

69. Seems to be about wanking off to me.

Bull riding? I can see that, so why to they have to tighten a rope around the bull's testicles right before they let it out? Anyone who believes it doesn't hurt the bull should ask himself how it would feel on his own testicles. Calf-roping is hideous to watch. I remember reading something from PETA about a Ag dept vet who had to inspect animals after rodeos, and he found all kinds of injuries, on the animals: broken bones, lacerations, free floating blood under the skin. "Intentional" or not, cruelty is cruelty.

[FlaGranny]

72. No matter what you think about rodeos -

the rope is not tightened around the animal's testicles. It goes around the belly. It also is not a rope. It is a leather strap with a quick-release. Not that those facts don't make it unpleasant for the animals. But rodeos are NOT intentionally to hurt the animal, like bull fighting, dog, or rooster fighting.

Rodeo is a rough sport and no doubt there are injuries, both to the animals and to the human participants. We could probably live without it.

[freetobegay]

5. You are right on the money!

I still hang my head in shame over this.

[Terran]

6. Great post Midori

Nominated for the front page.

[CatWoman]

9. awww, gee

thanks, Dirk!!

:hi:

:loveya:

[WLKjr]

7. History always repeats itself, just comes in different ways and means.

n/t

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

19. This is because

there are so many people that do not learn from history. I think most people think history is only about learning names and dates. If most people could learn from mistakes made in the past, I don't think history would be repeating itself so frequently.

[JHB]

10. Spot on! A sad, shameful chapter in our history (warning: graphic photos)

Everyone should have to look through these to confront the banality of evil. The pictures are bad enough, but the "souveniers" and what's written on them, and even a confirmed pacifist starts thinking it's a pity the photographer only had a camera and not a machine gun...

http://www.musarium.com/withoutsanctuary/main.html





For reference, photos above are numbers 51 and 80 of the collection.

[tnlefty]

17. OMG! I can't believe that people have kids there and that the girl on

the left seems amused.....sickening.

[JHB]

18. She's about the same age as Barbara Bush

...(i.e., Babs was born in 1925, the photo is from 1935).

OK, the association is a cheap shot. Like the Bushs care what I think...

[beanball]

25. Those pictures

reveal a time not too distant that is happening again,as Mr.Dreyfus points out,sad,sad,shame,shame,on us for allowing these acts of madness to happen.

[SemperEadem]

41. wouldn't it be great to be able to identify these people

and go ask their progeny how they feel about it?

[wicket]

63. Sickening GHOULS.

:(

[mopaul]

16. strange fruit hangin' from that southern tree......

our sons and daughters in the army were lied to and told that the people they were torturing, and killing, are the ones who attacked us on nine eleven. and you are profoundly right on, the attitude of our culture must change. things always change, good and bad

[sui generis]

20. I wonder about this

I sometimes wonder if maybe someone who was at one of those lynchings has ever had an epiphany? I'm curious, really, what would have been going through their minds then, and what they really believe now?

I guess my thesis is this: are/were they taught to dehumanize people enough to believe that they deserved to die for some "crime" (oh I think these people were feeling "righteous" when they were there), OR, are those people really just that evil, to the bone?

Probably a little from column A and a little from column B

[JHB]

27. I'm not exactly an expert, but I have a good guess...

You have the following conditions:

1) a group of people who are prideful but themselves generally put-upon;

2) some other group, and group (1) is taught that the rules of civilized behavior don't count towards group (2);

3) a dramatic narrative of swift and sure justice (which in practice actually emphasizes the "swift", and cares about "sure" only so far as appearanced go).

[sui generis]

33. groupthink, then, at the core of it

Oh well, they've been burning witches and saracens and jews and protestants or catholics variously all throughout history, why stop now.

Just sad to think that if it is nature more than nurture that we all potentially have some of that monster in ourselves. Maybe that's why I was curious if somebody knew somebody who could talk about what made them come to their senses, if they did.

[skygazer]

22. Excellent post, Catwoman

Man, that photo is tough to look at. Do you suppose mankind will ever evolve beyond that point or will we destroy ourselves first?

[CatWoman]

23. I think evolution is inevitable

therefore, there is always hope.

[sendero]

30. Dreyfuss' analogy...

... is disturbingly apt.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

31. I call the 'war on terror' GLOBAL LYNCHING. I told Jesse Jackson this.

I had been working with a very prominent African American singing group since 10/01 who performed for the both the NAACP and Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition Conference this year. Even the White House in 12/02.

The NAACP did their 29th annual Tribute to the US Military dinner the day before Ray-Gun's funeral in DC with a special tribute to the Air Force paid for by Lockheed Martin. I gave my notice to the band because of their participation (I stayed away) in glorification of illegal war. The slaughter in Fallujah and the exposure of Abu Ghraib pushed me over the edge.

I sent the band and NAACP juxtaposed pictures of Abu Ghraib torture victims and lynching victims in the US from a museum website of lynching postcards along with a recounting of the 1921 razing of an African American community in Tulsa, Oklahoma as a result of mindless white racist rage.
http://www.musarium.com/withoutsanctuary/main.html
http://rwor.org/a/v21/1040-049/1043/tulsa.htm

I heard that Kweisi Mfume saw my emails and was pissed.

At my last show with this band Jesse Jackson brought up on stage a slew of African American generals who were applauded by the (99.9% African American) audience for having achieved such a high level of status in the US death machine. I gave Jesse an earfull after the show for hypocrisy since his own literature decried the military budget and US war crimes such as the coup in Haiti. He didn't appreciate it.

Just as Martin Luther King preached during Vietnam, American wars are fueled by the same racism and hatred that allows massive poverty and suffering in our own country.

[Q]

32. What's sad to think about is that...

...every single politician that voted for the Iraq 'war' KNEW that thousands of 'brown people' would be blown up or slaughtered in their homes as the bombs fell for 'freedom'.

- This 'superior race' attitude of Americans is instilled by an administration that makes no apologies for attacking countries that pose no threat or killing innocent people that get in the way of their righteous bombs.

- This IS a racist war...where the arrogant Bush* government thinks so little of those they kill that they don't even bother keeping track of the bodies.

[mzmolly]

34. Wow. Your expansion is sadly accurate.

:(

[Kanary]

48. The current war on the American poverty-stricken will result

in SELF-LYNCHING.

Yeah, that's right....... nobody will have to go out and kill 'em...... they'll have to resort to killing themselves.

How's that for progress?

Kanary, who is willing to bet nobody will even read this, let alone reply.........

[CatWoman]

49. fooled ya!!

:P

are we talking genocide here?

[Kanary]

50. Genocide? Self-"inflicted"

Do you have any idea what it's like to hear of the impending cuts, and start thinking about how you're going to get yourself off the planet? Any concept of what that does to a person?

Then, of course, the inevitable that you can't even VOICE it.

Against the rules here, also.

The ugliness of this society knows NO BOUNDS.

Kanary

[CaTeacher]

54. I remember that happening to this poor

old widow that my family knew in Florida. She worked several menial jobs to try to support herself--and she just couldn't get by--eventually she was so depressed she just couldn't take it anymore.

In American--we should NEVER let anyone fall so low that they do not even have their self-respect. No one should ever feel that they have no hope whatsoever.

We really need to rethink our priorities and we need to provide the entire range of social services that we need to protect our people.

Kanary, Thank you for your comments!

[Kanary]

61. What a story... and it's all seen as a "personal problem"

And today, it would just be treated with pills.

What really angers me is that THESE stories don't ever get told!

These deaths are just as important as combat deaths!

Any ideas how we can make this all more visible??

Thanks for your story...... that woman *needs* to be remembered! Maybe, just like in combat, we can find a way to make her death have SOME meaning.

Kanary

[noiretextatique]

56. it's already happening, kanary

it has been happening. it's a part of what bill cosby was going on about...without any connection whatsoever to the big picture.

[Kanary]

62. You're sooo right! Thousands and thousands of deaths at the beginning

of the damned Raygun regime.... all unnoticed, and unmourned.

Deaths from Clinton's misbegotten policies, all unmourned.

I'm at a loss.......

Thanks for adding to this!

Please add some ideas........

Kanary

[KittyWampus]

51. Lynchings And Iraq War WERE BOTH PLANNED IN ADVANCE

there's a misconception that lynchings were spur of the moment acts brought on by hysteria around some "wrong" done to a white person.

They were not.

Lynchings were planned out in advance. Sometimes there were even flyers handed out.

Same as Iraq War.

People think it was a reaction to 9/11 or evidence of nuclear weapons poised to hit the United States.

No, both Lynchings and Iraq War were premeditated acts of hate used to further a radical agenda.

[CatWoman]

70. some where, some weren't

Rosewood comes to mind.

Hundreds were lynched/murdered.

[noiretextatique]

57. race is another dot that needs to be connected

in keeping with the tradition. i know the current torturers are a mixed lot, but let's not forget that the collective supremacist mentality that nutured and grew lynching (a form of terrorism) is also at the root of our current imperlialist plundering and inhumanity.
:loveya: keeping it real, catwoman...thanks :hi:

[lottie244]

59. Not "race" "racism" is the dot.

It's the motivation for a lot of evil in this world.

[noiretextatique]

76. correct...i used the word race

to avoid those who can't seem to get beyond the defintions of individual vs. institutional racism.

[Zomby Woof]

65. That pic always gets to me

So very goddamned horrifying. I feel rage, disgust, deep sadness, despair, and SHAME. I want to divorce this species when I think of the great depths we can sink to. What weird kink in our chromosomes makes us turn on each other?

But then I remind myself, although none of us are all good or all bad, most of us are, well, mostly good, and if enough of us stand up and scream "THIS IS WRONG" to those who are not mostly good, we may yet evolve. Some of those mostly ungood people are running our lives. This cannot stand.

It is my hope that we are always reviled by that picture and many like it, and by war and other gross injustices.

[Philostopher]

75. Y'know, I'm not entirely sure we all always volunteer

to turn on each other. I think even the lynchings may have been encouraged, at some level, by those who benefited from having poor whites feel empowered without having to make any investment in improving their situations. Maybe not even explicitly encouraged, but by using rhetoric and attitudes that appeal(ed) to that potentially ugly thing that probably resides in all of us -- the desire to feel we're superior to someone else.

I think everybody has this, and in some of us it manifests in ways that aren't dangerous or harmful. Some of us use this feeling to spur us to accomplish more, a sort of 'I'm too smart for this job/situation' reaction that hurts nobody and empowers us. Sometimes, it results in someone overcoming an otherwise bad situation -- if one is capable of making the personal investment.

In some of us, though (and it's the way that requires the least personal fortitude), it manifests itself in hatred of those we perceive, or can be convinced to perceive, are somehow less than us. In the case of poor whites in the south, in the first half of this century -- many of whom lived in the same circumstances as the blacks they lynched -- it was an easy way of making them feel empowered, encouraging or allowing them to feel that blacks were somehow less than human, and 'wanted killing' for whatever reason (or no reason). Racist white ideologues had nothing to lose if blacks were murdered -- they were no longer unpaid labor, after all.

I don't think this is distinctly Southern, and I don't think it's limited to manipulation of the poor or even the undereducated. I think ideologues will always attempt to appeal to this part of us, no matter what our race, religious affiliation or demographics, because it's a cheap way to make people feel like they're better than somebody else, and that's a psychological/emotional reaction most of us possess, whether it's touched off in us or not.

I don't know that money or education necessarily makes anybody immune to this manipulation -- it depends on how they feel about themselves and their communities. It's more difficult to convince people who don't start out tolerant to be tolerant, after all. It's much more expedient to focus their intolerance on somebody you consider to be expendable. In the case of lynching, it was blacks; in the sixties, it was hippies and the Vietnamese; in the eighties, it was those who had less money than you; in the present day, it's non-Christian brown people, among others.

It's an easier and cheaper route to making powerless people feel empowered than feeding, educating or employing them.

Have I read far too much Philip K. Dick over the years or something? Man, that sounds cynical ...

[deutsey]

71. "Going to Meet the Man" by James Baldwin

This story isn't about a lynching, per se, (a black man is emasculated while white families gather to have a picnic), but it is a disturbing examination of the psychology behind lynching.

[Zomby Woof]

78. Baldwin absolutely rules

I bought a sheet of postage stamps of him last weekend. I wonder how he would have felt about that...

[bemildred]

74. Kick for Cat. nt

[noiretextatique]

77. nother

:bounce:

[Bogus W Potus]

80. Good points

I'm really ashamed to be an American some days. I don't dare say that around here, however.