Cardinal Stafford Speaks On "Liberal-Nietzchean Culture"

[Khephra]

Date: 2003-08-23

Cardinal Stafford on the Church's Crisis

Wide-ranging Interview on Parish Life and the Laity

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BOSTON, Massachusetts, AUG. 23, 2003 (Zenit.org).- American Cardinal James Francis Stafford believes the current Church crisis is a crisis of parish life.

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"So, the first issue that the Church must face is to assess, critically, the compatibility between facets of liberal-Nietzchean culture as it's being lived in the West, that is in United States, in Canada, in Western Europe and, increasingly, in many other parts of the world, and to make judgments in light of the Gospel whether this liberal Nietzchean culture is, as a matter of fact, compatible or hostile to the Gospel. I am thinking specifically in the area of human sexuality, of economics, of academic freedom, especially in the university and colleges."

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Cardinal Stafford: The general principle is this: If we judge that religion is irrelevant to politics, then we are recognizing that the political realm is no longer part of the realm of God. If we divide the religious, the sacred, from the secular, then we are limiting severely, into very narrow confines, the action of God in the life of the world. But that's not what we confess in our faith as Catholics. God is not simply the God who is limited to a very specific area of life. He is the Creator of all that we see and all that is not seen.

For the Catholic politician who lives fully his or her baptism, it is impossible that God should simply be a "tag-on" to the system, whether it is political or economic. That is not the Catholic understanding of God. He is the Lord of Life. We confess in the Creed he is the Spirit, he is the Lord, the Giver of Life.

Governor Cuomo and President John Kennedy, both Catholics, did a severe disservice to the Catholic laity by setting a path that limits God in his role as Creator and Redeemer of all of mankind. And for Catholic politicians today to believe that they are guides for their consciences, puts them at total odds with the Catholic magisterium and with the Catholic tradition.

more..................

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=39931

[edward]

1. What does "liberal Nietzschean" mean?

Is this supposed to be self evident?

[Khephra]

2. This is the first time I've heard the term used

Which is one reason I brought it to DU's attention. In context it appears to be a new way of smearing liberals, but I haven't been around the political scene that long, so it may not be new.

[edward]

6. It almost makes sense.

Nietzsche is either a proto Nazi or a radical liberal. Especially for people who don't read him.

[Khephra]

13. Nietzsche has his good points...and a lot of bad points

But when his name is generally used this way it's for his connection to Nazis or other unsavory practices.

You're 100% right about the "especially for people who don't read him" part. I wonder how nietzche would have fared historically if there hadn't been any Nazi interest in his work.

[DarkPhenyx]

17. SO...

being proto-nazi or radical liberal he is either extreme right or left on teh spectrum. Kinda like the Bible. Why does the Cardinal have a problem with him then?

[Az]

8. Sounds like crypto speak for humanism

The idea that humans can judge for themself the course they can take. Moral relativism. This thinking has entered most aspects of life in the west. Its encoded into our constitution. We the people. Not under the guidance of god.

[Clete]

3. Yes, the Church does expect it's politicians to do the

work of the Church. When I was in parochial school, we were taught in Catechism class that we were Catholics first and patriotic Americans second if a conflict should arise between the two.

This is why separation of church and state is very important. Everyone knows their god is the real one and their church the true one, so what is all this controversy about? If the true church becomes the state religion, then everyone will be happy little church campers.

Of course those other guys will have to convert or face the consequences of breaking the law, which has now been merged with the church's commandments.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Nietzche was a libertarian, believing in the supremacy of Man

and he was the father of white supremacy.

Cardinal Stafford is blowing hot air out of his ass. He is demonizing liberalism, as people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have done for years.

The the crisis of the Church in Boston and in the United States in general is caused by the Church's cover-up of sex crimes by the religious, and its coddling of pedophiles.

This man is a puke!

[sujan]

9. dont care

he's a catholic clergy says it all. Hypocrites.

[edward]

10. "the father of white supremacy"

Is this supposed to be a joke? What are you basing this on?

[sujan]

14. I dont think

he's a father of white supremacist. Hitler used a lot of his stuff to justify his misgivings.

[Room101]

11. IndianaGreen, father of white supremacy ??????

I must admit I have only thumbed his work, and plan on soon reading one of his books. But what is this father of white supremacy stuff? This is news to me.

[Room101]

5. This Liberal loves "Nietzsche"

Those of you that don't know he is a Philosopher and author of such books as "Beyond good and evil, Twilight of the idols" and the "Anti-Christ"(no not Satan or the devil, he just picks apart the Hypocrisy and fallacy of organized Christianity) He is a great read for my fellow Atheist:)

[tedoll78]

7. I named my cat Nietzsche!

He was all-black, and he was a little devil! Miss the little guy.. *sniff*

[sujan]

18. I second thee

[friendofbenn]

12. all liberals are uncaring,unfeeling nihilists

they are not moral like we men of god. is basically what the guy is trying to suggest

[drscm]

15. When Stafford was bishop in Denver, he used to write

articles in the Catholic newspaper every week. I never understood them (lib. Nietch?) and I have two degrees in theology.

I doubt he understands anything he says either.

If he really wants Catholics to listen to the teachings and teachers (magisterium) of the church, they can start to speak English, and provide the reasons for the teachings beyong "we told you so."

[edward]

19. "we told you so"

That's when I realized the church was too small for me. It incenses the pious that one may actually understand the teachings of the Christian Church and either reject them or practice them in a way that is creative rather than redundant.

[Postman]

16. At what point does religous edicts become fascism?

ANY religion has the potential for fascism. Whether it's Christians or Muslims or what-have-you. This guy seems to be condemning a "liberal" existence to the detriment of religion. I may have misunderstood him but as soon as the "religious types" start to suggest we are "too free" and blame it own "liberal" thought, I blow them off as just more of the right-wing bullshit we seem to never get enough of. Go control someone else's mind, not mine.