CNN Breaking: "al-Sadr has been injured in clashes"

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

This is all that CNN has on their front page at the moment:

http://www.cnn.com/

Wire services report renegade Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr has been injured in clashes, according to a spokesman. Details soon.

[madmax]

1. Oh shit n/t

[Catholic Sensation]

35. why oh shit?

the only reason I would say "oh shit" is because this son of a bitch wasn't killed. This guy is as bad as Osama bin Laden, and I won't shed a tear when this guy gets his.

[DrWeird]

38. He's as bad as bin Laden?

Why?

because he's upset with the US for massacring his people?

Or because he's muslim?

[Nile]

44. He seems to be killing more of his own people...

than he is Americans. No?

[Aidoneus]

45. No, those are actually the Americans doing the killing

I know they're so difficult to tell apart. Sadr(HA) on the one hand-- bushy black beard, dapper black threads, capped off with the Sayyid's black turban--the Mahdi(AJ)'s Army being the one standing up for "his own people". On the other hand, there's the invaders: generally shaved heads or with the `do that comes from that after a few months removed from being shaved, dressed in sand/jungle-coloured brownshirts, silly floppy hats--they're actually the ones with the tanks and airplanes reigning misery upon hundreds of "his own people" on a daily basis...

---A break for a word from our sponsors: You can't know the players without a scorecard!---

...The latter are a bit more difficult to kill, because they tend to hide behind armour and miles of empty air between the apartments being bombed (like my friend Qasima's, for example) and the jets dropping the bombs. But, the mujahideen of Fallujah showed how they can be hit, how to strike fear into them and keep them at bay, and in time the Mahdi's Army fighters may even out the figures with the experienced gained in the two rounds of fighting as yet. It is most unfortunate that it has come to such a status and that the tragedies compound themselves daily.

"As bad as bin Laden" ... :eyes:

[bvar22]

2. Good idea!

Lets make al-Sadr a martyr!!!!!

Food for thought:
There are 60 million more Shiite in Iran.

[theboss]

20. And 59.75 million of them could care less about this guy

For some reason, westerners view every Muslim cleric with a following as some kind of Pope. This would be the equivalent of some crazy Christian preacher in Arizona locking himself up in a church with a few thousand followers and a bunch of guns. Sure, Christians would keep a close eye on the situation, and some may support him. But if it ended badly, there would be no mass revolution.

[ilovenicepeople]

28. Well your the Boss, if you say "there will be no mass revolution"

Then I can finaly get a good sleep at nite. Thanks Boss:hi:

[K-W]

43. Yah, thats why the rest of them are throwing flowers at us! EOM

[Ms. Clio]

46. Actually, he is or soon will be supported by the majority of the Iraqis

Not because of his religious authority, but because he is perceived as the leader of the resistance to a brutal occupation.

For example:

Shiites in Najaf and elsewhere in the south have largely dismissed Sadr as an upstart, and the bulk of the Shiite population is thought to follow older, more moderate clerics. But Qani said he viewed Sadr as "an honest nationalist who did not want to push things this far. All he did was criticize the government and the American occupation."

"This Mahdi Army has been able to stand in the face of the biggest and strongest power in the world," Qani said. "People who really believe in this fight are ready to defend it with their lives. In the beginning, few people supported him. Now he has more than 90 percent of the people."

This from a man who just fled Najaf with his family.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

3. MSNBC link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5455104/

NAJAF, Iraq - Radical Iraq cleric Muqtada al-Sadr was wounded in the U.S. bombardment of the holy city of Najaf, but his exact condition remained unknown, two spokesmen for al-Sadr said on Friday.

“Sayyed Muqtada was wounded in American bombing. He suffered three injuries to his body. We don’t know his exact condition or to where he was taken,” spokesman Ahmad al-Shinabi told Reuters. Another spokesman confirmed the report.

There was no independent confirmation.

[CaTeacher]

6. Why do they always describe al-Sadr

using the term "radical cleric" but I have never heard that term used to describe Falwell?

[Aidoneus]

23. You have to understand what "radical" and "moderate" mean

a "moderate" = collaborator
a "radical" = evil fiend that's not playing ball for Wall St.

[paulk]

26. Sadr believes that the religious authority

of the Shi'ite leadership should be used to influence government, and, as such, he is outside of the mainstream in this matter. "Radical" is a fitting description, which would also fit Mr. Falwell. Mr. Falwell doesn't have an army at his disposal, however, which may be why the Western media has given him a pass.

[Athame]

4. Remembering the same reports about Saddam Hussein

during the invasion. He was reportedly wounded three or four times, possibly killed in a pile of rubble or else just made it out the door...

How does anyone know what to believe anymore?

[okieinpain]

5. you guy's don't really think the iraqi's are going to uprise because of

this guy do you.

[genius]

7. yes

[okieinpain]

8. I know the American news outlets are not reporting about the fighting.

but I haven't seen any articles that would say sadr is loved by the people. destruction of the temple is a different story, but I'm getting the feeling that if it is damaged there still won't be that much made about it.

[bvar22]

10. In an alternate reality...

...you could be right.

You are talking about foreign christians destroying one of the holiest shrines in Islam.

[Ms. Clio]

34. al-Sadr is becoming a symbol of resistance to all Iraqis

Protests Erupt in Five Iraqi Cities Over Najaf
Fri Aug 13, 7:23 AM ET

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Mass protests against the U.S. assault on the sacred Shi'ite Muslim city of Najaf broke out in five Iraqi cities on Friday, with some demonstrators calling for interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi to step down.

(snip)

Thousands also protested in central Baghdad, Kufa and Samawa. The military campaign infuriated residents of the Sunni-dominated town of Falluja, a hotbed of resistance.


About 3 thousand demonstrators marched in the center of Falluja carrying pictures of Sadr and placards denouncing the U.S. bombing of Najaf, where the cleric and his followers are surrounded.


"Long live Sadr. Falluja stands by Najaf against America," the demonstrators shouted.



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=1&u=/nm/20040813/ts_nm/iraq_protests_dc

[ilovenicepeople]

29. YEP!!!

[NickB79]

9. Maybe, maybe not. They WILL uprise if we damage the mosque

That Al-Sadr is hiding in. If we simply kill Sadr and not destroy the mosque, then there MIGHT be an uprising at some point down the road. If we kill Sadr by blowing up the sacred mosque, there SURE AS HELL WILL BE a full-blown uprising within the next few days to the next few weeks.

[okieinpain]

11. I just get the feeling that the guy has made as many enemies as saddam

has and people are going to hold him just as responsible as they will are troops.

[Wheelie_Alex]

12. Al-Sadr

is not really that popular outside of his small geograghic area. Should he be killed without the mosque being damaged, there may be a regional uprising by his followers (which will be quickly quelled), but not any widespread unrest across Iraq.

I believe that Al-Sadr's use of the mosque was to see if it could get damaged bad enough to where other Shiites would be ouotraged enough to join him in his fight. In a straight up fight, the insurgents are no match for American troops.

[genius]

13. He is the popular leader of the religious group of the vast majority

[Wheelie_Alex]

15. I am just basing it on what

I have been told by a friend of mine who is over there with a security company. He has his followers but many see him as an instigator and a problem more than a hero.

If he is so wildly popular why are the insurgencies so localized to his own general area?

[Aidoneus]

21. Your friend is quite mistaken

mercenaries like him are generally paid to think what their bosses tell them to.

The Sadrist resistance is all over Iraq, from the massive Madinat as-Sadr suburb of the capital, al-Kut, `Amara, al-Basrah, an-Nasiriyah, as-Samawah, Shia Turkmen in the far north in Kirkuk, Hillah, Diwaniyah, numerous smaller cities.. indeed also his hometown of Kufah and an-Najaf al-Ashraf which now grabs the most headlines as the scene of the most vicious massacres. Members of the erstwhile puppet police in `Amara are joining Jaysh al-Mahdi by the hundreds because of what the Marines are doing in Najaf, and thousands of people are holding demonstrations in the 2 largest Iraqi cities of Baghdad--not just Madinat as-Sadr & Kazimiyah as would be expected, this includes "Sunni" and Arab nationalist neighborhoods--and al-Basrah, among others (I read reports of several thousand-strong demonstrations against the massacres in Najaf and the Baathist puppet/tyrant `Alawi in Nasiriyah and Diwaniyah, though have not found exacts or details just because of lack of time for this right now).

According to even the polls of the occupyers, Sayyid Muqtada(HA) is the 2nd most popular individual in the nation--just a hair below His Emminence Sayyid Sistani(HA), who is considered the 1st--and is supported by over 2/3s of the population (I believe the exact figure was 68%, though my memory is hazy; the crusader command themselves have the support of a whopping 2%). Sadr(HA)'s support is remarkable in that it crosses very sharp divides, so that even the Salafi & pan-Arab nationalist resistance in al-Fallujah and other central areas hold great respect for him and the Jaysh al-Mahdi.

Outside of Iraq, it could be said at this time (for rather fickle reasons, admittedly) that he holds a position in the eyes of people 2nd only to the Lebanese resistance leader Hassan Nasrallah.

[paulk]

27. you use the honorific "Sayyid"

do you believe Sadr is a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad?

[Aidoneus]

39. strange point to contest, of all contained in there..

On reflection, it seems that unfortunately a substantial edit I had made to that post seems to have not had any effect! bah.

When I was researching Imam Shaheed Mohammed Baqir as-Sadr(RA) several months ago, I had once come across a study of the family's lineage that suggests within reasonable lengths that it is truth, this goes both for Mohammed Baqir(RA) and Mohammed Sadiq(AS), thus to Muqtada(HA) as well through the latter. Indeed, he also wears the black cap well and is living up well to the historical and material burden forced upon him and that expected of his status.

[paulk]

40. I was just curious, I hadn't seen it used before

in relation to Moqtada - though later today I saw Juan Cole had mentioned that the Mehdi spokesman used it also.

Does a lineage have to be traced or can the honor be bestowed?

[Aidoneus]

41. ah, I see now

it has to be investigated and accurate.. most families that can trace their lineage back to Mohammed(pbuh)'s family are proud of this and keep meticulous records. It has to do with the special esteem Mohammed had for Ali, Fatima, Hassan, and Husayn.

I had known this about Sadr from the first image I had seen of him. Without even knowing as I did about the family line, it is easy to notice just by appearances--black turbans on Shia scholars designate such, white turbans do not.

[Noodleboy13]

36. Agreed

Strategically, this is a less than desirable position for the US. That it is essentially of our own making does not make it any less troublesome.
It appears that we are drastically underestimating the potential, motivation and tactical ability of the "insurrgents."
We are losing any goodwill we had, and civilians and soldiers are losing lives and limbs.

It's really quite disheartening.

[ilovenicepeople]

30. localized to his own general area?

Do you mean Iraq?

[markses]

31. And by localized you mean all the major cities in Southern Iraq?

Basra, Kut, Amara, Nasiriyah, Najaf - and of course Sadr City itself, a small locality of only 1,000,000 Shia?

Are you fucking kidding?

[okieinpain]

14. I agree with you. I believe this guy is rolling the dice. but he's going

to lose this one. I just have a feeling that when iraq goes up in flames, it will be over something that no saw coming.

[Wheelie_Alex]

17. These things get very bloody,

I have fought these types "militia." Their very lack of training and incoherent actions as a unit results in them taking huge loses. Looks quite unfair when the results are seen on paper.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi Wheelie_Alex!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Aidoneus]

22. They are as we speak..

so my answer would have to be 'yes'. What cave have you been in that this was not apparent? The respect Iraqi's hold for Sayyid Muqtada(HA)'s Jaysh al-Mahdi grows with every day and every martyr, and thousands more have joined them only recently as a response to events.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theboss]

19. This needs to end

I do think that al-Sadr needs to be taken out of the equation, one way or another. And I don't think his death or capture would do anything but rile up his closest supporters, who are already pretty damn riled up to start with. And in reality, his death or capture may make his militia decide to go home, and that's a good thing from any perspective.

I have no fears about him becoming a martyr. He wasn't particlarly resepcted before the war. He's made a very opportunistic move to gain some stature, but - outside of a smallish circle - I don't think he is that respected.

[goclark]

24. He is a Muslim leader -right?

Then I think there will be a real problem from within the Muslim world.

As an African American, I recall how we felt when Malcolm was killed.
We knew immediately that it was realy the CIA/Now called Neo Cons.

Many in White America believed that Malcolm was a bad person and a bad leader for his people.

Many African Americans believed that he was hurting not helping our cause.

But, when they killed him, that was another story.

He became an instant hero. After all, he was our brother, our family and blood is always thicker than water.

Deep down inside, the huge majority of African Americans are still in a RAGE that Malcolm was killed. I know I am.

I also know that a large part of the rest of America and the world regrets that Malcolm was killed. He was a religious leader and a political leader. He was fighting for his people who did not have a voice too.

[theboss]

25. Malcolm was probably killed by The Nation of Islam

But that's neither here nor there.

Yes, Sadr is a problem dead or alive. And I am sure there will be a lot of lamentations if he does get killed. But I just don't anticipate some kind of full-scale revolution for someone who used his father's name and the American invasion to grab power.

[goclark]

37. I agree

I would just add that the Nation was then and probably still is infiltrated by our government.

[T Town Jake]

42. I thought Malcom X was assassinated by...

...members of the Nation of Islam? :shrug:

Or at least that's all I've ever heard; don't claim to know the full facts surrounding the event conclusively, so don't flame me. :)

[Tsiyu]

32. Since The Repukes Love to Stage Stuff

Why don't they have a "Holy War Match" where they pit Pat "God-Talks-To-ME!" Robertson against someone like AlSadr, mano a mano.
Stage it in Vegas, Pay-per-view, and leave all the innocent folks out of it?

[LeftHander]

33. For chrissake....just stop watching CNN!

The more people that watch the more power they have.....


Sheesh...