For the committed Nader voter

[NinetySix]

Nader voter: "But voting for the Democrats is nothing but choosing the lesser of two evils!"

Alright, point taken, provisionally. Imagine some hypothetical elections, evenly matched, with Nader playing the spoiler role:

a) Benito Mussolini, Pol Pot, Ralph Nader.
b) Fidel Castro, Augusto Pinochet, Ralph Nader.
c) Manuel Noriega, Idi Amin, Ralph Nader.
d) Robert Mugabe, Joseph Stalin, Ralph Nader.

Does the value of voting for the lesser of two evils now become more apparent? Knowing that Ralph is polling around 5% in each of these mock elections, I vote for:

a) Mussolini.
b) Castro.
c) Noriega.
d) Mugabe.

Obviously, voting for Nader is voting for Nader and not the greater of the two evils in each case, but since the net effect is to shift the election in favor of:

a) Pol Pot,
b) Pinochet,
c) Idi Amin,
d) Stalin,

doesn't it make sense to prevent the inevitable catastrophe that will follow the 5% of the vote being siphoned off from the lesser of the two?

Now that was only practice. Here's the real test:

1. George W. Bush, Al Gore, Ralph Nader.
2. John Kerry, George W. Bush, Ralph Nader.

You already flunked the first one. Imagine the consequences if you fail to learn from your mistake.

[NinetySix]

1. No takers?

Are no Naderites going to take me to task on this one? Surely you must think the comparison is unfair. Surely you resent the patronizing chastisement meted out in my last sentence. Or is it that what I had hoped for has come true, that there are simply none of you left?

[fujiyama]

2. Me is Naderite

Waaaaah!!!! Kerry isn't perfect....Me make protest vote to make me happy...vote my consncience! Me is sooo special!

Bush=Kerry

Tweedledee Tweedledum

Kerry is the same as Bush....

Hitler = Kerry...Kerry is baaaaaad!

/Dumbf$^$ Naderite mode off

[JohnnyRingo]

3. They're finally commiting Nader voters ?

Can they keep 'em til December?

[geek tragedy]

4. Is anyone willing to admit that they're going to vote for King Ralph?

Even through an anonymous handle on a BB?

[NinetySix]

5. Thanks for the support,

fujiyama and JohnnyRingo, but it looks like my attempt to bait some Nader voters into an argument on the merits of spoiling the country by spoiling their ballots might have been fruitless. If I don't get any replies from them soon, it's late, so I'm just gonna crash.

[fujiyama]

6. Naderites

found another place -- the place whose name shall not be spoken on this board ;-)

[AmyDeLune]

7. Ah, if only...

you had been at my local farmer's market today! :) There was a Naderite trying to get people to sign a petition to get Nader on the ballot. The best arguements he had to offer were that the Supreme Court was responsible for Shrub's occupancy of the White House, since Nader syphoning off Gore votes was all Democrat propaganda, and Nader is the only candidate against the war in Iraq. Basically, Kerry=Bush. *eyeroll*

He had all of one signature for an hour and a half's work. He left shortly after I refused to sign the petition and wished him luck.

[dad]

8. Nader is the only candidate against the war in Iraq.

Damn right he is. That's certainly significant to me.

[Selwynn]

9. I'll play a Nader supporter (I'm good at opposition prep)

I reject one of your premises, that the difference between the "two evils" of John Kerry and George Bush is like the difference between a horrible unspeakable evil and a not too bad evil.

The primary argument I make is that Bush and Kerry are essentially the same, and that there is little to no significant difference between the two candidates. Both are beholden to the same corrupt system, both are servants of their corporate masters, etc. etc.

I vote for Nader because I believe the difference between the two candidates is so infinitesimally small that it essentially doesn't matter which one of them wins. Only someone willing to stand up and speak out for real change, someone like Nader championing progressive ideals presents any real hope for the future.

If I believed that Kerry was far, far, far, far, less evil that Bush, I would vote for Kerry, but I see no evidence of that, in fact I see just the opposite. Kerry's position on Iraq is barely distinguishable from Bush's nor is his foreign policy. He preaches a "better" tax policy, but then advocates cutting corporate taxes even more as an "incentive" for US jobs. He has a wishy-washy position on Gay marriage which is not significantly different than Bush, he said he would consider appointing pro-life judges to the courts, no significant difference there. He is campaigning on his military service and military experience as a "military president" for this "war" on terror, so no real difference there...

No, I don't believe Kerry is far, far, far, far less evil than Bush. In fact I'm quite sure they are peas on the same pod, even if at opposite ends of that pod. The only real hope for American is to take a stand at stop throwing away votes on an essentially one-party system with the two wings of the corporate party trading off control every so many years...

(note: I don't believe any of that.)