If Jim McGreevey resigns now and an election is....

[PROGRESSIVE1]

held in November, can the Democrats keep the Governorship?

If he resigns now, a special election WILL BE HELD on Election Day 2004.

[trotsky]

1. Why would there be an election?

If the gov. resigns, doesn't the lt. gov step in and complete the full term?

[soupkitchen]

3. No, NJ doesn't have a LT Gov

And any resignation before Sept 15th would necessitate a general election in Nov.

[Zynx]

2. The election in NJ is next November(2005).

[Catholic Sensation]

5. there would be a special election

and listening to a lot of the comments, it would probably fall back in Republican hands after what this idiot pulled.

[physioex]

7. What exactly did he "pulled"?

Having consetual gay sex is hardly a crime. It's really none of our business and he shouldn't have to quit over such issues. Does any other citizen have to resign from their job if they had an affair? No the problem is with this Puritan society in this country that we live.

[Catholic Sensation]

8. IT'S NOT THE FACT HE HAD AN AFFAIR

GOD DAMN WHY DO SOME OF YOU INSIST ON BEING DISHONEST ON THIS ISSUE? IT'S LIKE HOW SOME IDIOTS CLAIM CLINTON WAS IMPEACHED FOR ADULTERY AS OPPOSED TO THE CRIME HE COMMITTED.

HE IS RESIGNING BECAUSE HE PUT AN UNFIT MAN IN CHARGE OF HOMELAND SECURITY FOR NEW JERSEY, AND IS ABOUT TO BE SUED BY SAID MAN FOR SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND POSSIBLY RAPE.

I hate typing in all caps but the stupidity on this board warrants it.

[trotsky]

20. At the risk of being barraged with more CAPS...

exactly what crime did Clinton commit?

He didn't lie under oath, you know. According to the definition of "sexual relations" that Starr's lawyers gave, Clinton actually DIDN'T have "sexual relations" with Monica.

[Catholic Sensation]

21. he lied under oath

Definition of Sexual Relations: For the purposes of this deposition, a person engages in "sexual relations" when the person knowingly engages in or causes – 1) contact with the genitalia, arms, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person. "Contact" means intentional touching, either directly or through clothing.

The above is the definition used by the Starr Lawyers.

Getting a blow job is "intentional touching" of the genitalia "with an intent to arouse of gratify the sexual desire of any person."

You got served, and Clinton lied under oath.

[trotsky]

22. Don't be so confident.

Legal opinion differs. Yes, it's ticky-tacky, but legally valid.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=470645

His defense consisted of an extremely literalistic dissection of the words of the definition. I will suggest that a large part of the problem is that the definition had largely been textualized. A result of textualization is that the resulting text invites a very literal and sometimes even hypertechnical interpretation, and Clinton was only to happy to comply.

[Catholic Sensation]

23. i must be missing something

if i get my dick sucked, i'm having my genitals touched with intent for sexual arousal. There's no grey area, and anyone who thinks so is simply in denial.

[trotsky]

24. Yes, you must be.

Unless you think you know better than legal scholars, which, considering the condescending attitude in your posts, you just might indeed think.

My personal view is that he probably did not commit perjury based on the evidence we have so far examined. He certainly intended to mislead his questioners in the Jones deposition. But the Bronston case emphasized that intent to mislead is not the legal standard in deciding whether someone made a false statement under federal perjury law. It is up to the examining lawyer to establish a clear record of the witness’s testimony. This is something that the Jones lawyers failed to do. Instead of probing how Clinton understood phrases like “sexual relationship,” they handed them their own definition.
This textualized prescriptive definition provided Clinton with an opportunity to search for loopholes, and at least in my mind, he found them. And when he was asked questions that did not invoke the written definition, the terms that were used, like “sexual relationship” or “sexual affair,” were simply too uncertain at the margins to support a perjury conviction. - Page 43.

[fob]

25. Wrong. By the definition provided you did NOT have sexual relations

since "mouth" is not on that list. As a matter of fact, you could get a handjob too and NOT have "sexual relations" Starr-style.

[K-W]

27. Clinton broke no law. But thanks for being vulgar.

You can question his honesty and honor, but what he did violated no laws.

[Shoeempress]

4. I heard he was staying to November 15, to avoid a Special Election,

and draw more Dems to the polls on 11/2

[gasperc]

11. a special election would be a huge campaign distraction

the GOP would love, and if they can take the office it could give them momentum, we need to spin the waste of money of a special election

[gauguin57]

6. If he resigned today, the election would be in September....

... at least according to someone on MSNBC. It would be a special election for governor, they said.

If he doesn't resign immediately, the (Democratic) NJ senate president will be acting governor till the election in Nov. 2005.

[ramapo]

9. He doesn't need to stay to 11/15

If he resigns after 9/3, less than 60 days before the election, then the senate president is acting governor until the regular gubernatorial election in 2005.

If he left today, there would need to be primaries and then the election of a new governor in November.

If the roles were reversed, Democrats would be crying foul. The Republicans will beat this to death. You'll likely hear as much about how Dems are infringing on NJ voters' rights to elect a governor, then you'll hear about McGreevey.

There is a point to their argument. The Senate President remains head of the Senate while acting as Governor. A very powerful position for a person elected to serve only a small part of the state.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

10. What are you saying??? I want to keep this seat in the Dems....

hands! Remember California?

[Catholic Sensation]

12. I hope something like this happens in a Republican state

and I hope you'll be defending the Republicans when they do the exact same thing.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

13. No I won't!!! The Rethugs play dirty and it's about time we did....

the same thing too! They will do WHATEVER is needed to win and I will do the same thing too. Yes, I will apply a DOUBLE STANDARD!!!

[Catholic Sensation]

15. Yes, and I will call you a hypocrite.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

16. In a battle of Duer's against FReepers, the FReepers would...

eliminate DUer's! TOO MANY DUer's are like Alan Colmes. Look at how well he has done.

:eyes:

No wonder Democrats loose.

[Catholic Sensation]

19. he's got a nationally syndicated radio show and a decently watched

television show.

Compare that to Phil Donahue, he's been cancelled twice.

[CaTeacher]

14. what is the breakdown of governors at the moment?

ie how many repug governors and how many democratic ones? I know we are outnumbered--but don't have the exact numbers at hand.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

17. 28R and 22D

[CaTeacher]

26. Thanks! n/t

[PROGRESSIVE1]

18. What about Defranseco? He was an Acting Governor!

[ramapo]

28. Yup and Dems didn't complain

Donny D. was acting gov for nearly a year. Life went on just fine.

Course he became gov. under more "honorable" circumstance. The esteemed Whitman became head of EPA, no scandal there, and the Dems worked quite nicely with Donny D.

I'm certainly not suggesting McGreevey leave pre-9/3 or even pre-11/15. He can't be "made" to resign though the Repubs will harpp on this to no end. They will not mention Donny D's tenure as Acting Gov.