Does the "Office of the Presidency" have to be respected

[Cyrano]

when the man occupying that office is a fool, a dolt and a war criminal?

We hear, (mostly from Rethugs), how we have to respect the office of the presidency. How much did they respect it when Bill Clinton occupied it?

But their hypocrisy aside, I don't have a definitive answer to this question. For the most part, my answer would tend to be yes, but under the current circumstances, it tends to be no.

Sorry if I'm nuancing (if not flip-flopping) too much. What's your opinion?

[noahmijo]

1. No it's the other way around

The Office of the Presidency should be respecting US. It should fear us at all times 24/7 REGARDLESS of who is in.

This goes for Kerry too when he gets elected in Nov.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

2. Only if the occupant was actually Elected, not Selected.

[southernleftylady]

3. No... You have to earn my respect

not just say "dont you know who i am?"
that doesnt do it for me...
show me WHY i should respect you ...

[Gman]

4. Not any more

and its a shame. The right wing is solely responsible for the disrepectful attitude toward the presidency that now saturates the country.

Had they treated Clinton with respect, we likely would not be treating Bush as we do. We damn sure didn't treat Reagan nor Bush I like this we treat Bush II.

Now Nixon,... but he had it coming.

[napi21]

5. I respect the Office of the Presidency, not the occupier.

I don't think it's nuancing when you say certain positions carry respect. I respect the Supreme Court, but not every justice. I think that idea is applicable to almost every business. There is a degree of respect for any executive "Office" but the person occupying it must ear "personal" respect.

[kikiek]

6. I used to think so. Then Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II came along.

Of course what we know about this country's true history is minimal so the list is probably much longer.

[indepat]

41. And some $12 trillion of the $13 trillion national debt projected by the

CBO by 2014 will lay at the feet of these four gentlemen. Wonder how much stronger and safer we will be as a nation if others will no longer be willing to finance our budget and trade deficits, if money is not available to pay social security and Medicare beneficiaries their promised benefits? What will four more years bring?

[CrispyQ]

7. Only if the one who 'offices' there is worthy of respect!

"I love to bring people into the Oval Office -- right around the corner from here -- and say, this is where I office."

[Liberal Veteran]

8. Not according to T. Roosevelt:

"To (say) that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it's morally treasonable to the American public."

[southernleftylady]

10. this needs to be our slogan! bumperstickers and shirts for EVERYONE! nt

[Jack Rabbit]

9. A fool, a dolt and a war criminal

And the loser of the last election.

[Green Lantern]

11. They tell you

in the military, to respect the uniform even if you don't respect the wearer. i can accept that. I also can accept the fact that the uniform I am looking at is an empty suit. There is no shame in criticising the current resident of the WH, Gov. Bush. As some one noted TR's comment, it still applies. But there is no honor in criticising the institutions that have done so well for us. They are the mechanisms of our political and cultural life. Those who fill those institutions may be saint or sinner, genius or fool. Those we rate and criticize with our vote, and our dissent. If we are well served, we re-elect. If poorly served, we return them to private life. If fooled, we learn and move on. We venerate the institutions, but those serving in them are people, no more and no less than are we.

[Cyrano]

15. Green Lantern...

Your comments are profound.

I remember in Ken Burn's "Civil War" documentary on PBS that one correspondent he often quoted was from Deer Isle, Maine, but I can't remember who it was. (Perhaps Joshua Lawrence Chamberlane??) Your words have the same tone as those written by those who lived through that hell so long ago.

[Green Lantern]

20. Cyrano

Chamberlain is a "hero" of mine, an amazing man in war and peace.

There were several segments of Burn's documentary from Deer Isle. He drew from several local sources, including a very knowledgeable gentleman who has written a local history column for many years. There was an historical writer, one Vernal Hutchinson, who wrote a volume on Deer Isle in the Civil War which formed the basis of much of Burn's info.

I confess to be a bit of a student of that era, and a member of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War. That may explain some of the tone I have.

I personally see much of the polarization of today as a distinct parallel to the polarization that occured from the mid 1840's on, over slavery and states rights. Then, as now, there is a definite hardening of positions, and a tendency to not see one's own interests through the rhetoric. I fervently hope that we fast forward past the potential civil war i think may be coming, to the next Populist era wherein we re-establish the principles of the Declaration and the Constitution.

Time to put the soapbox away.

[Green Lantern]

36. Cyrano

you have quite a memory. Are you also interested in the CW?
Thank you

[leesa]

32. Well..that's assuming one party does not own all the voting machines,

judges, media, etc. It's a nice fantasy that this is the way it works, but it's not currently the reality.

[Green Lantern]

35. Expectations, goals and standards

are what keep us looking up. There is little truly wrong with the actual institutions themselves, just in the way they have been corrupted by corporate money and wealthy individuals. They have taken us out of the process. The documents and institutions of which i spoke also give us the "permission" to change that which does not work for us. We can always raise the bar. (the old "reach and grasp" argument.)
I am sorry for your cynicism about the forms and institutions of our government. The bottom dwellers who currently masquerade as our leaders are our problem. The process gives us the freedom to turn them out, to restrict their ability to control or impact our lives. We have for 25 years now seen more and more people fall to the cynicism, fall to the moral hot button process,
rather than pay attention to their own interests and the interests of our country. We have ceased to attend issues in governance in exchange for judgmental positions of moral values by election.

Our process allows for the pendulum. It appears to be swinging once again. how far it goes, how well we clean house, how thoroughly we restore balance, is entirely up to us. We set the tone of our culture and the atmosphere of our government. That is our job as "We the People..."

[bowens43]

12. Nope.

The office is nothing without the man (or woman) and this particular man is an ignorant arrogant fool who hasn't earned our respect. He has earned our disdain.

[Geo55]

13. He has earned our disdain

I SEE DA STAIN , YEP , I SEE IT !

[Malikshah]

14. It's simple really.

The Office of the President is something to be respected.

That, however, has nothing to do with the current squatter.

He was selected and has proceeded to cop a squat literally all over the place, raising a stink that has driven everyone away.

It is OUT of respect for the Office of the President that this miscreant must be ousted. Only then can it be cleansed and the healing can begin.

[seabeyond]

16. kids and i met up with an uncle in dallas

a gay uncle that has no love lost for bush. boys were talking about bush and liar ect.......and he says we have to have a little bit of respect of the office of presidency if nothing else. all three of us stopped talking, sat with frozen faces adn my 9 year old and i just looking at each other speechless. we didnt want to argue with uncle and he is right, but gggggeeeeez, he didnt even legitamately win. how do you honor this man. has sat with me for a couple months. i would teach my kids that, but with bush, i havent been able to

[mitchum]

17. Only as much as a postal worker or any other civil servant

[karlrschneider]

18. Nothing wrong with respecting the institution of the Presidency, but

the temporary occupant isn't necessarily deserving of it independently.
Newt Gingrich pretty much opened up that particular paradigm. (He was
correct, if not "right")

[Ready4Change]

19. There is a difference between Respect and ...

There is a difference between Respect and Carte Blanche. The office is due respect, and that respect includes the occupant AT FIRST. But Carte Blanche should never be given. Each action should be subject to inspection.

Beyond that, the respect due to the office can be lost due to the actions of the occupier of that office. That is why we have the impeachment process.

[vetwife]

21. I respect the chair, the desk, nice rug, nice shape , oval..Thats it !

I just don't respect the occupant ! He is trespassing !

[NEDem]

22. only when

the occupant has been legally elected.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. No.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918

[kodi]

24. Honor that which is honorable. Disdain the rest.

.

[Nordic]

25. yes, which is exactly why Bush needs to get the f**k out of there!

He's a disgrace to the office. He shits on it every time he breathes.

The man is a disgrace to the HUMAN RACE, not just the presidency of the United States.

We are embarrassed by this scum, and I am still absolutely stunned that the people, both repubs and dems, haven't simply stormed the white house and thrown that fraud out on his ASS

[T Town Jake]

26. The "Office" itself, yes...

...it is the embodiment not of one particular occupant at any given point in history, but of all the Chief Executives whom have sat there, from the best to the worst. True, the "Office" has had it's Buchanan's, McKinley's, and Hoover's; it's also had it's Jefferson's, it's Jackson's, and it's Lincoln's. Every Coolidge seems to be balanced out by an FDR; every Taft by a Woodrow Wilson. My point is that the "Office" itself belongs not only to the nation at large, but to both the generations that came before and the unfolding future yet to come; as an institution that has, by and large, acquitted itself well since 1789, I respect it immensely.
Now, as to any particular occupant, they are fair game for their opponents during their time (and history ends up sorting it all out eventually). One can, I think, respect the "Office" while simultaneously despising any current or past (or anticipated future) occupant of the same with no inherent philosophical contradiction or moral hypocrisy. This is the irony of Democracy - and it tends to work beautifully, most of the time. Florida in both 1876 and 2000 being obvious exceptions, of course...

[rman]

27. is it wise to *blindly* trust authority?

wouldn't that make it a bit to easy for authority to abuse its power?

[Skittles]

28. NOT WHEN IT IS STOLEN

nt

[markses]

29. Nonsense like "Respecting the Office of the President" is fascist,

pure and simple.

The West Wing may be the most fascist show on television.

You may think I'm kidding, but I'm not. I'm sure-as-shit fucking serious.

[jacksonian]

30. respect

is how government is made. However anyone attempts to govern, they need respect; conversely, respect for office is the expectation of overall good government despite partisan self-interest.

[franmarz]

31. respect the office of president

The office of the president must always be respected. The occupant of that office is not always that lucky, according to his actions,
however, we the public are the ones to determine who sits in that office-each to our own choices.

[terrya]

33. I'd respect it a lot more if it wasn't the "Imperial Presidency"

The whole concept of "The Imperial Presidency" with all the trappings affiliated with it...is embarrassing to me. It reeks of "empire"

[radwriter0555]

34. same people think that there is a god, think that that a person is awarded

respect.

I know that respect is earned, not bestowed like a mantle or a title.

These people let others do their thinking for them... it's that type of mentality.

[DemWitch]

37. Maybe it was my upbringing, but...

yes, I do respect the Office. I refer to Bush as Shrubya, BushInc., etc., while talking with folks, but, if I had the opportunity to actually meet him, I would refer to him as President Bush. I would then proceed to tell him why I thought he was doing a wonderfully fucked up job of running the most powerful, and at one time, most respected country in the world.

Dissent is not disrespect.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Djinn]

39. what exactly is "respect for the office"

I don't know how a position can be respected it just doesn't seem to make much sense to me?

[kayell]

40. No. There is a reason that we have a president rather than a monarch

George Washington made it clear from the start that the President was just another citizen.

I respect those who earn respect. I give people who I know little about the benefit of the doubt until they have shown their worth or lack thereof. It wasn't hard to know what to give *.

[noamnety]

42. This is like the flag burning debate

The flag is a symbol, who cares if it is disrespected? It's far more important not to disrespect the land and people. If you allow arsenic and mercury in the country's drinking water, and allow needless strip mining and worse, it doesn't matter how many flags you wave, it's not patriotic.

Likewise, the "office" is a symbol. The actions of the president are what earn or don't earn respect. If the president acts in a way that harms our people and our country, why would we respect him?