Help me with some Vietnam information!

[Fixated]

I was talking to someone who asked for evidence of a more widespread atrocity rate than just a couple My Lai-esque incidents.

Does anyone have a source that demonstrates that these kinds of atrocities were more common (and while I appreciate testimonials, it doesn't really do me much good). Thanks!

[ET Awful]

1. Just show them the award-winning photo of the

girl burned over most of her body with napalm running naked and screaming down a dirt road.

[Fleshdancer]

6. I can't look at that picture without crying

:cry:

[CaTeacher]

2. I saw a special on the

history channel--less than a dozen people were eventually convicted of war crimes.

This is proof that crimes did occur. But--it casts doubt about the crimes being "common".

I think there is a perception that the crimes were common--from movies and books etc.

[Sporadicus]

3. You May Find the Articles Here Enlighening

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=SRTIGERFORCE

This article discusses the retired Army colonel from whom these stories sprung (apparently as a near-deathbed confession):

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20040301&s=sherman

[kentuck]

4. Can someone help me find James Kane of Philadelphia, PA??

I need him to verify that he was with me when an "intelligence officer" offered each of us $2000 for each ear of man, woman, or child of Vietnamese origin. We were both short-timers and the offer was made if we stayed for another tour in 'Nam....Why did he make offer to us?? We were both in a support unit (59th Field Service) out of Cam Ranh Bay but we did "get around"...It was around the village of So Chin or Ba Ngoi along the coast...

I assumed this was a common practice and I heard stories of men wearing the ears as a necklace. Somewhere in Viet Nam, incidents were happening every day that could be called "atrocities". Every day occurrences are not isolated incidents, in my opinion. Jim, if you are there and are still alive, get back to me.

kentuck

[never cry wolf]

9. I could try, do you have any other info?

Profession, middle initial, etc??

[bobbieinok]

11. certainly heard a lot of stories abt cutting off ears, etc, as 'proof'

also heard a lot of stories about necklaces

(I was a grad student in CA at the time on a campus where many students were quite involved in anti-war activities, so we always heard about stuff like this.)

[11 Bravo]

5. A variety of atrocities were commonplace.

H&I (Harassment and Interdiction) fire and free-fire zones were everywhere, at least in my little corner of the war. Both are violations of the Geneva Accords. I also saw, on more than one occasion, water buffaloes lit up just for fun by passing gunships. While technically, this may not qualify as an atrocity, I can guarantee you that the farmer who depended on the water boo for his living might disagree.

[benddem]

7. I never saw any

but I was a nurse in Vietnam and remember well the photos of the guys with strings of ears. Usually the guys didn't sleep at night and they would tell all kinds of stories of things they did. They all couldn't have been made up.

[Mara Steele]

8. Annie, I must again say, thanks for your service

And I must tell EVERYONE here, who hasn't already, to please go take a look at the website listed in Annie's profile.

It's very informative, and very heartbreaking.

Thanks again, bigannie!

[11 Bravo]

10. You're an angel.

I picked up two Hearts in '71. The first one was a scratch, the second got me a ride home. I fell in love with my nurse 33 years ago and remember every line on her face to this day. My wife even understands and approves. God Bless You.

[genius]

12. BTW, Powell was responsible for MyLai but it didn't go that far up.

I knew someone who came back, told me that people would be shocked if they knew what was really happening over there and then committed suicide.

Check out "Casualties of War" with Michael J. Fox. I believe it is based on a real life incident. This is the sort of thing I suspected the person who committed suicide was talking about.

[Junkdrawer]

13. The Winter Soldiers Investigation:

Here's a link to the investigation that John Kerry testified to in front of congress. The charges are from the veterans - the controversy with the new Swift Boat ad is that it makes it look like the charges are Kerry's...

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_entry.html

[Rainstorm]

14. I am a Vietnam Vet

I was in country from the fall of 1967 until the spring of 1970. I spent about 24 months in the field and the rest of the time in garrison duty. I was in the 196th Light Infantry Brigade (Americal Division) and the 1st Infantry Division. I was attached from the 509 Radio Research Group.

I never saw any real atrocities. Most of the troopers I knew just did their duty with honor. Some of them were a little meaner than others but I never saw any wanton killings or anything that was wrong. In fact just the opposite. The GIs were generous and often went out of their way to help the civilians and especially children. We were brutal with the enemy in combat but that is the nature of war. Occasional someone would make a mistake and a civilian would get hurt but it would never be because of a wanton act on the part of an American trooper.

Don't believe everything you see from Hollywood. My experience says, after many months in country, that the war was much more like "We Were Soldiers" than "Platoon" or other movies that portrayed the American soldiers as drug crazed killers.

Other vets may have different experiences but that is my experience.

[vetwife]

15. My husband said and has no reason to lie...

The Geneva convention was a myth ..loopholes.
Could not use a silencer but could use a noise suppressor.
There were search and destroy missions and orders came straight from the top.
There were soldiers who did cut off ears and use them as a Badge of honor. He did not. He knew about it but was afraid of being fragged if he actually tried to do something about it. He said that most all in Special Forces and he was in 101st and attached to Ranger Division did Search and destroy. He said the were ordered to Take No Prisoners. It was not just a motto. it was a fact. He also said that in training the decadance was KILL KILL KILL with COLD COLD STEEL !.
He also remembers the worst thing that he can remember doing is eating lunch on a hill watching the Vietnamese being napalmed and soldiers making jokes about crispy critters. Pretty bad huh.
He said Kerry told the truth in 71. It was policy and you could die right there by friendly fire if not done what you were told. Many did die and they called it Friendly Fire. There were free fire zones. It was a mess and more than 110,000 VN vets have died by their own hand since that war ended ! Their names are not on a Wall.
Also you have to remember a kid toted a gun at 12 and shot , so many returned fire. There were also kids who were sent out as suicide bombs. Kerry spoke the truth.

[Rainstorm]

16. I don't want to get into a ....

...."I know more than your husband" discussion because each vet would have a different experience. I can only talk to my experience.

Search and Destroy was a mission to search out and destroy the enemy. If you saw a supply route then you would destroy the supplies. It was never open season on civilians. Search and Destroy was never, by itself, anything more than taking the war to the enemy. WWII was one big Search and Destroy mission and is very common in warfare.

Free fire zones were an area where the know enemy was operating and you could return fire or initiate fire if you suspected enemy activity. Vietnam was unique in that the US designated some areas as no free fire zones. During the Civil War the whole South was a free fire zone. All of Europe and the Pacific theater was a free fire zone in WWII.

Again, after 24 months in the field, attached to an infantry division, I never saw anything that would be considered as an atrocity. If you husband has a different experience then God bless him.

[vetwife]

17. Welcome Home

He lives the most horible nightmares one could imagine. You are right about the S & D but his orders were to kill anyone that was in there. He said he was fortunate, when he stormed those villages, the
people had left, and it was mostly rice and weapons that were in the hooch. He won't say much. I heard most of this in therapy sessions with his doctors. He told me that he was in Laos when the government said they weren't as well. He rarely gets out of bed and thank you for the Blessing. He is covered in Agent orange as well. I have seen him get dressed in fatigues and burn all identification and not know who he was for hours on end. I have seen him get lost coming home from the store and cry for no apparent reason. A smell can put him in bed. I have seen him hospitalized 3 months at a time.
He is living with some pretty bad stuff. 100 percent PTSD. Total and permanent. He threw his bronze star and other medals away a long long time ago.