Confrontation in church this am

[greenbriar]

:evilfrown:

This morning, there was a table set up outside the sanctuary with a man behind it selling books for $15.00

#1. I have a problem with this from the start, I don't believe church is a place for this.

I went to the table to see what the book was and it was written by Gene Williams....GEorge Bush, Bill Frist, Billy Graham, Oral Hershiser Men of Faith...something


My husband grabbed my arm and said, come on dear, leave it alone...


well we went in and set down, the more I thought about it, the more I got mad. I excused myself told my hubby I had to use the RR before church started

but instead, I went to the table. He said Hello, I said Did you write this filth???

How you can equate bush as a man of faith in the same category as Billy Graham is beyond me. He is no more of a man of faith than satan. I went on to tell him he was using the "church" to sell his agenda and asked him if he was a member of PNAC. He acted like he did not know of that...yea right...

I left after I could not contain myself, and walked away before it got ugly and as I was walking away, he said WAIT>>>I will give you a copy if you will read it. (I should have taken it) I told him the only place that book would end up at my house would be for fire place starter, or toilet paper.


I am so furiousssssssssssssssssssssssss

[leesa]

1. I'd take a closer look at Billy Graham if I were you.

I would suspect their level of faith is similar. He IS Bush's "religious" mentor, after all.

[ComerPerro]

30. no kidding

[Bake]

31. And I suspect you would be wrong.

Billy Graham has for decades been non-partisan. He has been a spiritual advisor to virtually every US President in the late 20th Century. He specifically AVOIDS politics and does not walk into the White House unless invited. He's been invited quite often.

His message is simple, and it always has been. You may disagree with it, but he doesn't ram it down anybody's throat. If you don't like him, change the channel or stay away from his "missions" (he doesn't call them "crusades" anymore, and hasn't for years).

I've met the man. For me, as a Christian, it was like meeting the Apostle Paul.

Methinks you're confusing Billy with his son Franklin. That would be a mistake.

Bake

[mitchum]

36. Well, Billy is a far more smoother grifter than Franklin...

I don't know if Franklin is an anti-semite like his dad (but I imagine so)

Billy Graham is far more partisan than you think

[medeak]

2. LOL

You and I have too much in common.

Husband was pretending he didn't know me at Eric Clapton concert a few weeks ago.

Saw a young man holding a sign that Clapton needed Jesus to save him. When I approached him and asked him pray tell why..he became flustered and called someone on cell phone and handed it to me.

Woman on the other end...said Clapton's song "Cocaine" was evil. Told her Clapton runs a rehab hospital in the caribbean and she was way out of line.

was furious too... nothing wrong with speaking mind except for what it does to blood pressure. ((hugs))

[greenbriar]

5. thanks

hubby just doesn't understand what is at stake.

He believes the same as I do, and he will vote Kerry, and has let me put 3 signs in the yard, but he thinks that is good enough... arrrrrrgggggggg

[jackieforthedems]

24. Well, I Have 3 Children At Home

My 2 sons - and my husband! At least you guys can get your husbands to think about politics - mine has 4 game systems here: PS2, Nintendo Gamecube and 64, and the Xbox!!!! He also happens to be 6 years younger than me, and I guess when I think about it, maybe a "3rd child" isn't so bad afterall... I don't have to compromise that often! Lol! Don't get me wrong, he's a good guy - my boys definitely have a father that they can grow up with!!! P.S. Regarding your situation with the book sale at church, though, I know what you mean. I think I would have blown my cork, too - knowing that Bush had something to do with it. I still don't think he comes even close to Billy Graham, though (just my opinion). More like it is that Bush is just using Graham instead.

[MissMarple]

3. The willfully clueless are the most infuriating.

They just don't want their world view spoiled, and seem to be quite happy living in "Pleasantville". I hope he doesn't ruin your Sunday. Remember to breathe. (Someone actually said that to me the other day.)

[greenbriar]

8. my only saving thought that allowed me to sit in church was the idea

that they are already bush voters anyway

[progressivebydesign]

4. Why in the world is your church allowing books to be sold there?

I'd find another church, if that is their political bent. I did laugh a bit when I read about your husband urging you past the table.. my husband gets a bit nervous when I get indignant... I've used the "restroom" diversion, myself. Bravo.

[greenbriar]

7. I don't know why it is allowed...I think it is wrong

they have never stated the political bent of the membership..I would imagine it is pretty well split, I just hate the idea.



the guy is preaching tonight...He is a former minister...

I am NOT going...I told hubby he could go alone if he so desired

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Men know that the worst thing that can happen in war

is to be captured and turned over to the enemy's women.

They fear our power. :evilgrin:

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. I wonder whatever happened to separation of church and state?

This kind of crap is BULLSHIT! How are they getting away with it? Was this guy a congregant? Did he have your church's permission to sell his trash out front?

[Catshrink]

9. Report 'em to the IRS

for promoting politics in church. Threaten their tax-exempt status.

[Tamyrlin79]

11. And then talk to your church...

about having "moneychangers" selling things "in the temple".

[polmaven]

18. Gee, do you suppose

that group devoted to "rat out a church" would be interested in "ratting out" this guy? Hmmm? Yeah, neither do I.

[Deja Q]

10. The MCC I used to go to also had a behind-fellowship hall shop...

You're right. It has no place in a church.

And :yourock: for confronting that twerp!

[greenbriar]

12. thank you

he will probably cry about it tonight when he is the "special speaker" he used to be a preacher in his former life


hubby will probably figure out is was me...

I am refusing to attend church tonight

[greenbriar]

13. Real Men REal faith is the name of the trash book

Real Men, Real Faith


By: Gene Williams

Produced by: Beacon Hill Press of Kansas City

Book
083-412-1352
Price: $14.99



About This Product


Both national and personal tragedies cause us to ask the question, "Where is God when we're hurting?" Discover the common thread of faith in our Father that sustains, regardless of the devastations of life. Real Men, Real Faith is filled with stories of faith that are shared by godly men from around the world. Featuring President George W. Bush, Franklin Graham, Reggie White, Paul Burnham (father-in-law of Gracia Burnham) and many more! Celebrate God's faithfulness to His people and join these men as they share their inspirational journeys.

160 pages.

[vetwife]

14. I mean this..You should have stood up and testified ! Can I get a witness

That is precicesly why I am not attending church right now. The minute they start preaching politics from the pulpit then I am gonna take a Stand Loud and Clear. Of course my husband will too. He still goes..I have already told everyone who has called me or wrote me as to why I am not there...What will happen...they know I will.
My husband knows me too well. He knows I will stand and being a preachers kid could out preach the preacher on the Moneychangers. He is used to my ranting........My Taking it Back and he just smiles.
I stood toe to toe with a Full Bird Colonel in D.C. and we hashed it out on veterans benfits back when Bush I was in office.

[greenbriar]

16. here is the thing, there is NO preaching from the pulpit

this guy has been a guest speaker before and has NEVER stated his political belief before


he just sat back at the table selling his filth

[vetwife]

17. There is no preaching from our pulpit YET..what do you bet tonight

there will be from your church? He is selling books...He will talk about the Bravery of Bush to fight Evil..Our good Faithful Christian President. I guarantee you. Our church does not preach it but they are sending emails and getting blasted back !

[greenbriar]

19. which is exactly why i am NOT going tonight

I believe God will overlook my dissent :)

[vetwife]

20. I believe that..God is surely not in those books !

[The empressof all]

15. Take back your church

You need to stand up and complain about this with the utmost vigor. It is outrageous that this was permitted by the powers that be. If you don't speak up they will continue to think they are in the majority and will continue to allow this to happen. I'm sure there are many in your congregation that believe as you do. Someone needs to be the first to call out.

You seem like a brave person. Please speak up and make a stink.

[0007]

21. Good for you! I think I would have gone further, at gotten rude with

the vendor and the goddamn church that allows this kind of bullshit. And I would have left my husband sitting by himself, as I would have headed home.

Did 'ya ever hear of Jays'us selling his books before giving a sermon?

Bill Frist, gimme a break!! junior's bad enough.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

22. Your church is breaking IRS rules and should lose their IRS exemption.

n/t

[greenbriar]

23. who do I contact for it???

I love my church,

but this is seriously wrong

[DemBones DemBones]

26. Call your local IRS office and ask if

selling this book on church property is a violation. (I think it is but laws are always complicated.)

Better yet, call the IRS on a tollfree number if you don't want to deal with locals. ( I remember poll workers joking with voters in 1968 -- "Hey, are you gonna vote for Shirley Chisholm?" My husband was giving me "Don't say anything" looks! )

It might be legal as long as equal access is given. In that case you need to get somebody to come sell books telling the other side of the story.

You could also just tip off your newspaper, anonymously, about this. Of course, the guy might not do it again. (My God, do we have to start carrying cameras all the time to document this kind of craziness???)

[homelandpunk]

27. You should have overturned the table like Jesus would have....WWJD?

Matthew 21:12
And Jesus entered into the sanctuary and cast out all those selling and buying in the sanctuary, and the tables of the brokers he overturns, and the seats of those selling doves. And He is saying to them, "It is written, 'My house a house of prayer shall be called' yet you are making it a burglars' cave."
I would have overturned the tables. Definitely the Christ-like thing to do.

[caledesi]

29. You beat me to it. The "moneychangers" Love the last line. nt

[zeemike]

39. You beat me to it too

It is significant that it is the only time recorded that Jesus became,e angry.

[mconvente]

28. Interesting story

It's interesting how some religious leaders state God chose Bush to be President and that God choses all Presidents. I wonder if that will be the consensus when Kerry wins... hehe!

Anyways, I consider myself to be a Christian. (Before you all flame me just wait up). I'm a new to religion (a little more than a year). I had a great discussion with one of my high school senior friends (he's voting Kerry of course!) and he had a great point:

Just because a President shares your (rw fundies') thoughts on the issues of abortion and gay marriage, doesn't mean he knows how to balance a budget, correctly run a war operation, or uphold the Constitution.

Basically we need to look above two specific issues and see the whole picture. RWers claim that God doesn't want abortion; but does God want poor inner city children not to go to college, or have middle class families struggling just to survive, or have seniors cut their pills in half because they can't afford to buy enough for the right dosage. I think He does not want those events occuring.

So even though I consider myself a Christian, I'm 100% for John Kerry because I can see beyond a few issues and look at the big picture.

[Hubert Flottz]

32. Hey, these people may even be more Evil that we think!

See this thread!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2250156

They scare me!

[ogsball]

33. Don't over react

#1 I haven't read this Real Men Real faith book and don't plan too. (as a disclaimer I did purchase and read a book of faith by Jimmy Carter.)

#2 I would never judge GW Bush's devotion to God. I didn't judge Bill Clinton's either. I wouldn't vote for either because of their faith either. I judge this tree by it's fruit--the economy, the world situation, etc.

#3 Don't over react. Pray and talk to your pastor. He or she probably doesn't realize how offended you were.

BTW I get almost as offended by all the Left Behind books in our church library and I'm the pastor there.

[greenbriar]

35. I just don't think it is right that a table was set up

in the foyer and he was selling his filth.

[CBHagman]

34. Who would Jesus smear?

Seriously, I have had it up to the back teeth with these people cooing that George W. Bush is some kind of Christian gentleman. From what I've heard and observed of the televised/recorded Bush (and I've heard more than the average American), plus what I've read about him, his personality, his family, and his associates, he is a vindictive, manipulative, win-at-all-costs plutocrat who treats people like pawns.

The other day I took out my copy of "Boy Genius," which is a profile of Karl Rove and his career, to refamiliarize myself with operations in the Bush campaign. Folks, the spirit of Richard Nixon and Lee Atwater is very, very much alive.

So don't forget that Karl Rove is part of the legacy of Richard Nixon and Lee Atwater, and that however much Bush may want to distance himself from that legacy, it's his, and he has long since embraced his inner SOB.

[merh]

40. Didn't the weed use Atwater's tactics in Alabama during the

senatorial race in 1972 when he was working for the repug Blount? I seem to recall reading how devious he was and how he had a hand in edited a tape of an interview to make it sound like Blount's opponent was against segregation (which in Alabama in 1972 was the kiss of death for politicians).

I think weed studied Atwater too!

[mitchum]

37. Was the moneychanger sick today?

Why was someone selling books outside the sanctuary???!!!

Good for you, though :)

[blm]

38. Always remember Bush's longtime unholy alliance with RevMoon.

Another point to cut them to the quick is to ask if he believes it's a good thing for this country for the fascists/corporatists to control all branches of government while they make deals with the theocrats who promise the votes of their followers.