Keeping Your Politics to Yourself

[papau]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=66&ncid=749&e=11&u=/bw/20040824/bs_bw/ca200408236584ca025

Keeping Your Politics to Yourself

Tue Aug 24, 8:15 AM ET


If you're like most corporate veterans, you can hold your own at the water cooler, whether the topic is sports, current events, or the hit HBO series of the moment. Unfortunately, though, in an election season in which passions are running hot, politics -- the national kind -- can overpower all other workplace conversations. And that can be hard on your office relationships, and perhaps hurt your career. <snip>

Such generalizations aren't reasonable, of course. But they can spread in a flash -- or not, if you resist the temptation to trumpet your political leanings. Should someone ask how you're voting, say: "I'm paying close attention to the campaign. Ask me after election day, and maybe I'll tell you then." Chances are, no one will believe that you're in the apparently tiny slice of the electorate that's still undecided. But how will they really know? <snip>

CLOSED LIPS. Here's how you might react were you better prepared. Your boss, an in-your-face Democrat, asks: "Don't you think it's absurd that we would go to war on false premises?" You say: "I'm more concerned that since we're there, we manage the situation the best we can, get the country on its feet, and get our troops home. But you know what? I'm trying really hard this year to keep my mind open and my mouth shut. Do you want to go over that vendor performance analysis?"


This isn't kow-towing, and it isn't insubordination, either. You're essentially asking your boss to view your political opinions as he or she would your religious beliefs (let's hope!) -- with respect and tolerance, including understanding for your desire to keep your feelings on the topic to yourself.


With a little forethought, you can be ready for nearly any political question -- and calmly count the days until November. At least after Election Day, you'll have to listen to only one set of rants -- from the losing side.



(the article had no advice, beyond having ready a "don't go there" rejoinder that you can use to back out of the topic, for those that had a GOP leaning boss)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

1. I'd really like to have an in-your-face Democrat for a boss...

...then I wouldn't have to worry about standing up for what I believe.

[Kazak]

28. I do...

Yeah, he wants Bush* out as much as I do. It is nice not to have to worry to much about what I say.

[catzies]

29. Me too. My whole office is Democrats. I'm so lucky.

We trade articles and cartoon and emails all the time. :loveya:

[GodHelpUsAll2]

39. I had one

It was wonderful. I lost that job though, got laid off the beginning of the year. Now I work for brainless Republicans for about half the money. Thanks W.

[phantom power]

2. When *is* a good time to talk politics?

I understand that talking politics often generates more heat than light, but how are we supposed to have political discourse in this country, when the prevailing wisdom is "keep your heads down and your mouth shut"

[Momgonepostal]

3. Are there any DUers who have had this experience?

Have any of you had your career suffer because of your political views?

[papau]

4. Yes

:-)

[CaTeacher]

5. Yes indeed--and I have

seen if happen to other people as well. When I was in graduate school, the establishment (professors etc) would black ball anyone who was not "left" enough! I loved those days!

I knew several guys in grad school who I felt sorry for though--some of them were real sweethearts but had a few slightly conservative beliefs--they were drummed out of the program without getting their degrees (they were ostracized--treated like pariahs, made fun of behind their backs--gross exaggerations and lies told about them etc) and their career dreams went down the toilet.

But--it is fun to have that kind of power! I think academia is the only place where we on the left regularly have it--and you better believe that we use it!!! My graduate advisor was also in charge of student dismissals--if a student was "on the bubble" she got to make the decision if they got a second chance or were kicked out of school. She used her position to help students from disadvantaged backgrounds (whites, asians etc were out of luck--blacks, hispanics, American Indians would not be kicked out). She is very proud of what she does--she openly talks about it and receives nothing but kudos from the campus community. Imagine if everyone felt that way! Our society would look very different for sure!

It is fantastic to be in a situation where the left really has the POWER to change things! Sometimes I wish that I had stayed in that environment.

[Momgonepostal]

6. Maybe this isn't the message I was supposed to get from your post,

but that sounds awful.

"She used her position to help students from disadvantaged backgrounds (whites, asians etc were out of luck--blacks, hispanics, American Indians would not be kicked out). She is very proud of what she does--she openly talks about it and receives nothing but kudos from the campus community. Imagine if everyone felt that way! Our society would look very different for sure!"

I'm all for giving disadvantaged people a fair shake, but I couldn't help envisioning my own white husband being "out of luck" in his search for a job. It seems like some sort of happy medium is more desirable.

[Malikshah]

7. I agree, what a terrible message to convey

As a professor, our department is mixed politically, and although we have firm beliefs, they never show up in the classroom etc

[CaTeacher]

9. This wasn't people competing for a job.

She makes the decision on dismissals--students that are on the verge of flunking out. So--these are all people who have screwed up and are not doing well at the University.

She gets to decide if they are kicked out of the university--or if they get to stay and get a second chance.

Her theory (which she has even stated in our local paper) is that whites etc have already had plenty of chances in life--so if they are having trouble with their grades etc--she does not feel that sorry for them. However the minority students have already had to overcome lots of hurdles just to get there--and the system is harder for them to adjust to--so she gives them another chance (as many as needed) if she can--because it is a way to even things up.

When you look at it in the big picture--it is not really that unfair. She explains it much better than me though. I have never heard anyone criticize her for this EVER. And she is very open about what she does. However, this was an extremely liberal university and I have only encountered ONE professor who was openly to the right in 10 years of affiliation with this institution. (There are 1500 faculty--and I have personally met at least 300 of them through my studies and work with the alumni association.) We are very liberal here.

This one professor who is a little conservative--he is not treated like "one of the gang" he is ostracized. I would HATE life if I were him!! (ha ha ha) Perhaps there are others who share his beliefs--but don't want to go through what he does? But most that I encounter are strong and vocal advocates of the left! One of my favorites was a leader in the civil rights movements of the sixties! He is the greatest! Thank god we at least control most of academia!!!

[quaoar]

10. That is just appalling

I'm sorry, but your colleague is acting disgracefully. She is making judgments based on race. She may justify it as her own personal affirmative action program, but what she is doing can do serious damage to people's lives -- people whose major fault, in her eyes, is their skin color.

[bobbyboucher]

17. Again,

Bullshit!

[HFishbine]

25. "she has even stated in our local paper"

Got a link?

[CaTeacher]

42. no--the university paper is not

on-line. Sorry.

I wish she were here to defend her views herself--I don't do a very good job of it--but she is quite fantastic. I have never heard anyone get very upset about it.

She just gives a little extra chance to people who have had the deck stacked against them in the past--the people who have traditionally had more trouble getting a university education. I thought that almost everyone supports that.

I am no longer at the University--I am only involved as part of the alumni association now. But--I have helped her with several projects.

I will tell you about one of the projects, two years ago, a rule was passed that due to a lack of parking--freshman students could no longer have cars on campus. Well--we (a group of alumni) felt that this policy would be especially hard on the African American students--because many of them are not from this area and they would NEED a car to go home and visit their family. So, some of us alumni pooled our resources and we purchased a lot, where we allow cars to be parked. Now, every year we approach incoming African American students and offer to let them keep their car on our lot for a nominal fee (or for free if they are disadvantaged) while they are freshman. We do not offer this to students from non-disadvantaged backgrounds--we did this because we wanted to make it easier for these students to attend the university.

I personally think it is appropriate and right to give extra help to people who may not have had much help. People from an AA background do not graduate at the same rate as white students, so we try to help them in any way that we possibly can. We want to see as many as possible become successful. That is a major motivation for most of us in academia.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[HFishbine]

33. Don't get too worked up about it.

You'll notice the "story" is void of any specifics. And welome to DU!

[bobbyboucher]

35. Is that you?

bout time.

[CaTeacher]

49. ummm it is not me--

this was something that my advisor did. Look--these are people who are going to get kicked out--she can choose to give some of them a second chance.

The most important factor she takes into account is their background. Why is this controversial? The university takes background into account in admissions and people are not squealing about it (except for the RWers).

[quaoar]

54. Ask yourself this

Would your friend be willing to go to the home of those white students to whom she refused to give another chance and explain her reasons to those students' parents?

[CaTeacher]

55. usually the kids have already spent

several quarters (minimum of two) on academic probation before they are dismissed--so they have had plenty of chances. (and you are not even put on academic probation until you have had several quarters of bad grades too).

No one gets dismissed the minute they have a bad grade.

It is just her policy to take into account a disadvantaged background.

Usually the people who go before the Dean for dismissals have been doing poorly for more than a year. So ALL of them get plenty of chances. And she deals with plenty of parents and students. And of course students who are dismissed are welcome to reapply--or go on to a less challenging school.

Like I said--she explains it much better than I do.

I never saw this as even controversial before this. We use affirmative action all throughout the education system. We use it in accepting students, we use it in awarding scholarship moneys, and yes--it is also used in deciding dismissals.

It is actually surprising that people are claiming to be unaware of the affirmative action policies used by Universities. I thought this was well-known? Certainly in California--there has been plenty of press, the Regents of the UC system have had to address these issues in the past. Most people affiliated with the University seem to be strong advocates for using affirmative action at all levels of the process.

[wellstone_democrat]

69. In your imagination

I went to the most liberal school in the NW for undergrad
MA at the most liberal and feared Calif U (Berkeley)
and PhD in liberal old Cambridge...full of conservatives, most "liberals" were in name only and all I hear is the control of universities by liberals. Hardly.

I work now at an ultraconservative state U. Very very conservative students, admin, colleagues. But, I'm certainly glad that our dept Grad Advisor is not pulling the shit yours did. I wouldn't tolerate what you described in a liberal either. Not for a moment. There are plenty of whites and asians who grew up dirt poor. Plenty of Blacks grew up middle class. When someone is on "the bubble" there is more than race at place. Your advisor was a monster and it was about jobs---getting a professional degree is all about jobs in the end. She has an obligation to all of her students not just her private reparations program.

[coalition_unwilling]

8. My graduate advisor hated unions

And since I was a shop steward for the Teaching Assistants Association (the union), guess who took it on the chin during Written and Oral comprehensives? Like William Hurt in the Big Chill, "I chose not to continue."

Whatever--academia is rotten to the core, just like most other institutions in our post-industrial milieu.

[HFishbine]

13. Oh you're good

Very, very good.

[Name removed]

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[HFishbine]

26. Yep.

Previous "the more taxes the better" arguments were a clue along with suggestions of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for the Supreme Court.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[HFishbine]

34. Trolls getting better

Gotta hand it to those who can make it into the hundreds of posts. I was kicked off FR after one post.

[bobbyboucher]

36. Stop making sense, and you'll last

one hell of alot longer over at freepville. I can't even get on.

[HFishbine]

37. All I did

was post some pictures of an anti-war rally. I see picture of Freeper rallies here all the time (although it's easy to confuse them with landscapes).

[CaTeacher]

46. yeah right--I support helping the

poor and minorities and you support flat taxes and are against affirmative action. I wonder whose views are more RW?

Good grief! I am as authentically Democratic as anyone you are ever likely to know.

My family has been Democratic for many generations. My grandfather worked for Mayor Daley (the original), my parents worked on the McGovern campaign. And I am suspicious of any so-called "Democrat" who does not see the genius and eloquence of both Jackson and Sharpton.

[CaTeacher]

43. No--I did not "skidadle"

I had to go and tutor for several hours. I do have a job--and I can't sit here constantly. I logged right back on when I got home.

[info being]

45. Stop pretending to be a "typical liberal"

You Conservatives always get the charichature wrong.

[CaTeacher]

47. no--what I think is that

sadly a large portion of the party has turned toward the right and the middle. Now they are ashamed of those of us who are truly on the left. They want to marginalize those of us who care about the poor and the disadvantaged.

But of course they want to keep our votes.

Well--I am staying in the Democratic party--and I am going to fight to get the party back to the ideals of LBJ.

[BeFree]

64. Keep on fighting!

It sure was nice to read about how someone recognizes that some of us have many societal induced disadvantages and is willing to make the necessary moves to balance the outcome.

Our society is slanted in the other direction. If you are good looking, come from a well thought of family or just have a good family name, many doors are swung wide open, whilst if you are a tad bit unusual nobody, society slams the door in your face.

Refreshing to hear a leftist mentality holds sway in your school at least. Too bad it doesn't happen more often.

Kerry On!

[CaTeacher]

65. Thank you!

It is always amazing to me how people don't get nearly as upset about legacies (which is how losers like Bush got into Yale). Maybe that is because legacies are affirmative action for the rich and well-connected?

Some of us try to aggressively help the people who have never had an extra chance. It is hard for me to feel apologetic about that. It is needed and it will be needed until things are equalized in our society. I know that sometimes I am abrasive--and I can turn people off--without even trying. I try to be humorous or sarcastic and it doesn't come off well--but I do care about people and helping people--and making this a better society. And I hope the Democratic party helps us get there as well.

Thank you for the support.

[BeFree]

67. No, Thank you!

You ain't turning me off, actually, I'm kinda getting turned on <grin>

Don't worry about how others take you, just be sure that you are doing good.

[Name removed]

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[HFishbine]

21. So it's not just me...

Hmmmm.

[bobbyboucher]

24. Just a little too pubish. Perhaps they got greedy,

who would have thunk it?

[Name removed]

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[blm]

61. Your post sounds like What Republicans Believe about the Left.

I find it incredible and unbelievable.

[CaTeacher]

63. well, I come from a solid, working

class poor, African American Illinois-based family.

I do not have a lot of experience with Republicans (although I do know a few). Most of my family, friends, and coworkers are Democrats.

I think that I am used to being very vocally on the left from my time in the peace corps, as well as my years at the University. I also presently live in a very progressive, Californian cooperative community.

I admit that I am used to being surrounded by people who are quite a bit to the left of the average DUer. We are all shaped by our experiences and I accept the DUers who are much more conservative than I am as fellow Democrats.

I am however, quite astounded that the "troll police" thinks that I sound just like a Republican. Most Republicans that I know cannot stand me.

[blm]

66. It's just that it sounds like what Republicans fantasize liberals do at

universities and that is why they have an entire operation running against liberal colleges and professors. Your anecdote sounds like a wet dream for David Horowitz and his campus cavalry.

If your story is exactly as you say then I think it is disgraceful. And I say that AS a far lefty myself, motivated by FAIRNESS and JUSTICE issues in the mold of Dennis Kucinich.

I would find no joy in treating anyone unfairly. Hard to believe any real liberal would.

[democratreformed]

11. I suspect that client who is not paying my husband

has something to do with political views. They had words one day on the job and the man is now 90 days past due. We are very small construction company that provides labor services. The man in question is a primary contractor. His failure to pay has caused our small company quite a bit of cash flow problems. It has also caused me untold hours of worry. I still don't know for sure what to do. I have had Dun & Bradstreet send him a collection letter. I am not sure where to go from here.

[quaoar]

12. Can you file a lien

Against his property?

[democratreformed]

14. In the state we worked in, they have a mechanic's lien law

but I think I waited too long thinking he was just having cash flow difficulties himself. The cut-off period is 60 days (I'm pretty sure that's what I found out when I looked). Dun & Bradstreet has a contingent collection service too. They keep 28% of what they collect though. I'm not sure if that's the best way to go or if I just need to get a lawyer.

[bobbyboucher]

19. A 60 day limit? File the lein.

Today.

[HFishbine]

18. You have to get a judgement first

Either start in small claims court (in my state, for claims up to $4,000) or district court. It's quite possible to do on your own.

[HFishbine]

20. I just checked your state

The limit is $5,000. (Are you owed more than that?) The fling fee is $25 plus an unspecified service fee (probably not more than $20). A lot cheaper than a collection service and when the sheriff serves papers on them, they may call you to settle.

Go to your local courthouse and tell them you want to file a small claim. They'll provide you with the paper work.

on edit: I'm pretty sure you can't get a lien without a judgement first.

on edit 2: I just noticed that you mentioned, "In the state we worked in," so maybe that's not your state. You can read about small claims court in different states here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/consumerism/small_states.htm

[democratreformed]

23. I'm in Arkansas. The contractor is in Louisiana.

I'm pretty sure that makes it much more complicated as well. Like I said, I'm just not sure what to do. I have never had to deal with this before.

Edit: And it's $17,000.00.

[HFishbine]

32. Wow! In that case.

I'd start putting some communications in writing. Send a letter that reiterates the amount owed to you, the due date, and any interest owed. If you are willing, offer to discuss payment arrangements. Ask that you be contacted by a certain date (Give enough time for the letter to get there and a day or two for him to respond). If terms are discussed on the phone, ask that the contractor send you a letter, again within a reasonable but short period of time, agreeing to the terms you discuss. That may settle it right there.

If you receive no reply, contact an attorney in the county where the contractor lives or if it's a corporation, where the company is headquartered or has an office. (If they have an office in AR, you can keep it in state.) If you have associates in LA, ask them if they can recommend an attorney.

If you can pay an attorney, win or lose (if your claim is legitimate -- all work completed, etc. you should have no fear of losing), then an attorney should be able to give you a ballpark estimate of the costs. (I'd guess $1,500 - $2,500). In many states, if you win, the defendant has to pay your attorney fees.

If you can't afford the attorney, tell the attorney of your plight and ask if he'll take it on contingency. You might have to shop around, but you'll eventually find one who will do it. If LA allows you to collect attorney's fees upon a judgment in your favor, an attorney may be even more likely to take your case on contingency.

You'll probably get by cheaper if you can pay the attorney directly (fees you may be able to recoup from the defendant), but even if he takes a chunk on contingency, you'll get the judgment you'll need before you can file a lien. A collection agency would be a waste of time, in my opinion, as all they can really do is harangue. A judgment in your favor opens open legal avenues to forced collection including liens.

[democratreformed]

38. Thanks for sharing info and your opinion.

Here's the history.
There are actually two bills for work performed and one for interest. One bill is almost $11,000.00, the second is a little over $5000.00, and the interest is close to $400.00. Starting thirty days after the final work was completed, we attempted to contact this man repeatedly to no avail. He would not answer his phone. So, I sent him faxes. No response. Finally, about six weeks ago, I sent him another fax. Also, my husband left a message on his voicemail that we were heading to Louisiana if he did not contact one of us. He called me (I also work for another contractor - and do what my husband needs in my "spare" time). He asked if he could send the smaller amount and the rest later. I agreed and he stated that he would mail the check "Monday". Still no check.

Two weeks ago, I made up a formal collection document using software that I have. I also wrote a letter giving him five days to respond. In addition to faxing the documents, copies of the bills, and the cover sheet, I sent all of them certified mail. I got a return receipt for the mailed documents with someone else's signature on it. The name was "Mansul Yumet". I've been trying to figure out if that is some silly thing he came up with. In my personal message, I outlined the following steps I would take to collect: 1)notify his customer 2)turn it over to D & B for collection and 3)contact a lawyer.

Oh yeah, a few days before that, I left a message with his wife for him to call me. Of course, he never did.



Last Sunday, (five days would have actually been Monday) I paid $12.95 for Dun & Bradstreet to send him a collection letter. I thought it might get his attention since it would go in his D & B credit file.

Still no response whatsoever. So, I have just been unsure what to do next. I haven't contacted an attorney yet. It has been a wild and hectic past week. I went with my husband last Monday and Tuesday to look at a job (I do his estimating). Then, we put my granny in the hospital Wednesday. I attended college orientation Thursday (I'm going BACK to school!!!) Yesterday was my first day of class. Then I got to take my granny back home and settle her in. Today, I took my son to Little Rock for a follow-up for his ADHD medication.

So, tomorrow, I will contact a lawyer that I know and that my dad has a good relationship with. He will either help me or put me in contact with someone he knows in the right area.

Thanks again for your advice.

[HFishbine]

56. Best of luck

I can see why you are furstrated. I think you're making the right next step.

[LifeDuringWartime]

58. thats rough!

sue the bastard for everything owed! it sounds like youll win no-contest

[TahitiNut]

15. Gawd! Does a bear shit in the woods? Ubetcha!

In a VERY neoconservative organization in a fundy community, of course.

[bearfartinthewoods]

40. you called?

oh...you said shit...i misunderstood...sorry

[TahitiNut]

48. (grin)

I think one can fart without shitting but I've never known how one can shit without farting. :silly:


(Sheesh ... I just keep getting more scatalogical! Well, I guess I'll take any kind of 'logical' I can get.)

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. We got pulled over by the cops

for running a stop sign that wasn't there and my husband is convinced it was because of my anti-war bumper sticker.

[The Mafia Squirrel]

68. Not exactly nailed to the corporate cross

I'm a fishmonger and I work with a bunch of butchers @ a retail chain. Meat guys are not exactly known for sensitivity or given to thinking a subject through. They tend to pick a stereotyped position (e.g. They are a hunter so by virtue of the NRA they are Bushies, regardless of their actual views on sensible gun control) and run with it until given sufficient reason to change. Now I've dragged my butchers kicking and screaming to the left by pointing out Kerry's virtues, Bushes flaws (that'll make you hoarse), and utilizing their affections for unions, individual rights, better health care and their kids educations.

We also have a couple of homosexual intellectuals in close proximity that come over to lend Democratic firepower. Together we've gradually turned our little corner into it's own little blue bastion in rabid repug Idaho. So I must say, my immediate interaction has been pleasant and a great opportunity to debate and hone my own positions among friends.

Beyond that, as in every retail store we have our own little teapot dictator who lacking vision for anything else landed himself at the top of middle management and is not happy about it. He's butted into several conversations with his jingoisitic Bush lauding. After a couple of rounds of rebuttal I learned that unlike my other experiences, he didn't let this go afterwards. I have to be a step better than everyone else or risk being singled out. That which does not kill us, right? I thought he was going to swallow his chaw (a lovely habit and prohibited in the workplace i might add) when he saw me reading The Motorcycle Diaries. Truth be told, I was surprised he knew who Che Guevara was. Now with him I don't keep my head down so much as ignore him for the dittohead he is.

So I can't say my career has suffered, I'm still employed, but I certainly won't be moving up the food chain under him. Not that I want to. I 'd like to think my best days are not in the retail sector. *crosses fngers*

[Touchdown]

31. This doesn't apply to my office.

I'm in a union shop. When half of the labor issues are political in nature, it's pretty hard to stay away from presidential politics. Besides, when I get knuckledragging e-mails on a daily basis, just to get a rise out of me, then I'm certainly not going to shut up.

My desk has an old Howard Dean sign, an Elmo, Bert, Cookie Monster, etc. poster of Homeland Security (thanks to this board), Washington giving rabbit ears to Bush at Mt. Rushmore, a Nader cartoon, Kerry's ribbons vs. Bush's (Pabst Blue Ribbon), and 5 bumper stickers...Dude, Where's my Country, Vote Bush off the Island, Democratic Underground, Bush Family Values (bombs dropping), and Axis of Greed... Cheney Bush Ashcroft.

As you can see, it's a little hard to feign Don't Ask Don't Tell around my desk.:D

[Fatima]

41. I work in defense

And defense is heavily populated by rethugs. After a few feisty arguments with co-workers I was (not they, just me) told to shut up about my politics, that my liberal views were "not welcome here." I also keep quiet about religion...I don't discuss mine for obvious reasons (and you should know I dress like anyone else on the job, no outward indication that I'm one of, *gasp*, THEM).

It's a good job, and I am not about to give it up or lose it for sake of principle (who will pay my bills? MoveOn?), so I keep the workplace chatter light.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

52. Same here...

....I sometimes take the "its all a bunch of BS" if the discussion goes to politics, but heaven forbid if I take a liberal or Democratic POV.

[dorktv]

44. I almost got fired three times at my last job. There was

no 'written' rule about what could be said and what could not. So you could get fired for just saying you do not like Bush. Very negative place to work.

[linazelle]

59. New manager keeps RW radio on in his office all day and when he moves

around to other desks, pulls up hate radio on the 'puter. He's an otherwise seemingly nice guy. That's what puzzles me so about these people--many are not a demonic as we often think when you meet them and see them. But it's mind boggling that they buy into the things they are told that have no bearing in fact.

[dorktv]

60. Well I was spared that because for some reason our building

could not get AM radio. It was very weird. I just think that if you are going to have a policy of not talking abou certain subjects then you should have it in an orientation manual or something.

[drdigi420]

50. I just got laid off from a place that is heavy right wing

I pretty much HAD to keep my mouth shut, being just a contractor

[KoKo]

51. Good Points, Papau...thanks for posting your "water cooler experiences"

it's really relevant.

And, good points to remember for us over 20 something...:D