How will BushCo. spin the Sistani-Sadr pact?

[RummyTheDummy]

I think it will be a huge PR bonanza for BushCo., assuming it holds up. Any thoughts?

[lil-petunia]

1. in what universe?

Sadr is rabidly anti-US
Sistani is not pro US, just anti violence. The fact that at least 50 of his supporters were shot by US troops trying to get near the mosque - this does not bode well for the US. Not in the least.

their merger is bad news for the US. at least, this administration.

[RummyTheDummy]

3. It will be easy

The militia comes out the holy site. All is well. People rejoicing. Iraq is turning the corner.

Or haven't you been paying attention to the last four years. Bush could machine gun a bus load of girl scouts and they could spin it their way. Never underestimate the naivete of the American people. CNN is already spinning it that way.

[paulk]

6. Fifty Sistani supporters were shot by US troops?

That's quite an accusation to make.

Do you have proof?

[lil-petunia]

7. mortars

killed at least 30 around the mosque - so said BBC radio today.
At a US roadblcok, keeping Sistani's people from joining Shia in the mosque, another 20 or so were stopped and gunfire broke out, reports said. with another 20 dead. No US casualties. So therefore, they don't count on US news I guess.

I'll try to find a euro site and confirm.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3601470.stm

BBC has a story on some of the"carnage" as they put it.

funny how no US media bothers.

[Ms. Clio]

11. It was also "quite an accusation to make"

that detainees were being tortured, back when the first hints and allegations began trickling out. And then it all turned out to not only be true, but much, much worse than is even really understood or widely known.

So what is your point? You think U.S. troops don't shoot Iraqi civilians, or what?

[paulk]

12. I have not made any accusations, meluseth.

Can you, perhaps, point me to an article that says that US troops killed fifty Sistani supporters yesterday?

[Ms. Clio]

13. How about just 74 more people dead because of this criminal invasion?

Iraq's health ministry said 74 people had been killed in and around the holy city today. A Najaf hospital worker told Reuters: "Go and look at the morgue - it's full."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1291219,00.html

Some of them supporters of Sadr, some of them supporters of Sistani, all of whom just want the foreign occupiers to leave their country.

[paulk]

16. this sort of violence is exactly what was predicted by those who

opposed this invasion. Which included myself.

Still, that's not the point - I expect that when someone posts something as inflammatory as "US troops have killed fifty Sistani supporters", they can provide proof.

[Ms. Clio]

18. Well, between the U.S. bombs and the mortar attacks

on Najaf, and on the marchers, and given the fact that probably most of those who were killed today were Sistani "suporters," like most of the Iraqi Shiites, according to Professor Cole, in fact, the post is probably correct.

However, it probably would be more helpful to have links for specific allegations.

[Aidoneus]

19. Not US troops, actually

so far those who have fired on the Sadr-Sistani demonstrators have been collaborating agents. Little difference from the US troops themselves, but specifically speaking, that is the more accurate statement.

[Ms. Clio]

20. I understand your point--I almost made that distinction, myself

But I really feel the difference is so slight, as to be nearly non-existent.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. "assuming it holds up"

They have portrayed the Sadr thing as the only problem they have there anymore. This is not at all the case.

[David Dunham]

4. It will not last more than a few days.

[lil-petunia]

5. Agreed

and just wait for the anti-american speachifying and orating to start around the mosque- with coffins of the dead being readied for burial.

no wonder they arrested or forced out all the western press.

[starroute]

8. The real story is that the US is losing control of Iraq

The insurgents have been in control of Fallujah since the US backed off from the fighting there. The US just isn't equipped to do urban warfare -- which means that, short of bombing entire cities into rubble, it can't win.

I'm sure that any agreement al-Sistani accepts will involve having his people effectively in control of Najaf -- not the US military. And I can't see al-Sadr buying anything that doesn't let him walk free.

The US position in Iraq is rapidly decaying to the point where it controls only the Green Zone and its own bases -- much like the Soviets in Afghanistan. The only question is how long the Bushies can keep Americans from noticing.

[MaryH]

9. Just ask John Burns

He talks about it every time he is on Lehrer. There are many cities that are not controlled by the "Central" Govt.

I bet that Iraq ends up a theocracy. It seems to be what they want.

[Ms. Clio]

10. "much like the Soviets in Afghanistan"

Or Karzai, another American puppet, in Afghanistan, who controls nothing outside of Kabul.

[starroute]

14. The US isn't trying to pacify Afghanistan, which keeps casualties low

But the Soviets were actively moving around the country, trying to defeat the resistance, which meant they kept having convoys attacked and helicopters shot down.

The US has an equivalent problem in Iraq. They can't just sit on their butts in the Green Zone -- not if they want to keep the oil flowing, make effective use of all those bases they're building, keep things safe for the American businessmen who were promised the chance to exploit Iraqi labor and resources, and provide any credibility at all to the puppet Iraqi government. So they have to at least pretend to be trying to put down the resistance -- and that means big-time pain.

[Ms. Clio]

15. Ah, I see your point

Thanks for clarifying, that makes a lot of sense, and the comparison really is quite apt.

[starroute]

21. Ouch -- sounds like the US is attacking Fallujah in force again

(Or maybe not -- if this is the same iraqwar.ru that was reporting on the war a year ago, it often gets scoops but isn't 100% reliable. Does anyone have any outside confirmation on this?)


http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=20639

Aug 26, 2004
By Muhammad Abu Nasr, Free Arab Voice, Edited By JUS

On Wednesday morning, the US launched the most massive all-out assault on the defiant city of Fallujah since the American occupation of Iraq began.

News from the warn-torn city will be increasingly difficult to come by in coming days as the US has cut off ALL communications with the outside world. Portable phones cannot be used because US aircraft hone in on the signals and bomb these targets. Some information has managed to get out and has been reported by Mafkarat al-Islam, whose reporters go to the very front lines.

<snip>

The correspondent reported that US forces began their all-out offensive on the city from all directions making airborne landings as F-14, F-16, and F-18 fighter bombers crisscrossed the skies above. The US aircraft have been intensely bombing the neighborhoods of al-'Askari, ash-Shuhada', al-Jawlan, and the industrial zone of the city. The Americans have closed all the roads leading to and from Fallujah, including minor routes and byways, and have cut off all communications with the city.

The Mafkarat al-Islam correspondent reports that there are large columns of American forces approaching the city from Baghdad, in particular from the central command. These are made up of giant Abrams tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles. Massive contingents of Marines in Humvees are also moving in.

[Cat Atomic]

17. "See? I told ya I was a uniter."

[dudeness]

22. sistani is obviously a shrewd political operator..

if he can achieve a withdrawal of the militia and the occupying forces, his position in the eyes of the world and in iraq is enormously enhaced, undermining the puppet goverment. this is indeed, a move towards a theocracy in iraq..only the timeframe depends on the willingness of the US to continue to sacrifice troops before the reality of a complete withdrawal dawns on the blood stained warmongers in washington..