After VietNam a Vet threw ribbons. After Iraq a vet bombed OKC.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

(this isn't a post about the election, it's a post about America)

America needs to come to grips with what it does to our soldiers. Kerry very honorably represented those who could not speak for themselves when he came back and testified. Instead of taking his disilllusionment and handling it in a non- constructive manner, he empowered others and acted within the guidelines of our society.

Flash forward to Gulf War One which was fought in the air, not on the ground. Did we not see vets returning and see in increase in domestic violence from a small subset of Gulf War vets? Did we not see one Timothy McVeigh who along with some of his fellow vets hatched a plan and implemented it to kill 168 innocent people and call them collateral damage?

The same people who would TAR Kerry for honorably objecting to Viet Nam, don't realize that Mc Veigh could never and probably would never have instituted his plan were it not for his stint in the GUlf War...God help us when the next disillusioned group returns.

[olddem43]

1. The difference was that Kerry went left and McVeigh went right.

As it turned out Kerry probably saved lives while the stupid McVeigh
himself became a victim of right wing hate, and unfortunately took 168 people with him.

[TheSuaveOne]

2. Watch the broad strokes...

"Did we not see one Timothy McVeigh who along with some of his fellow vets hatched a plan and implemented it to kill 168 innocent people and call them collateral damage?"

To my knowledge, only McVeigh was a GW vet involved in his plot. I am sorry, but the fact that he was a vet had nothing to do with the fact that the man was nuts and into conspiracy theory, so please don't point at "his fellow vets" and include us with him...he is a disgrace to vets and to Americans...la

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

3. I thought Nichols was a vet also and that McVeigh got into

the Turner Diaries via his time in the service....of course he is a disgrace to vets, but no one was painting all vets with a broad brush....the fact is...it WAS his time in the service that created his acrimony..the fact is we are CREATING many more young men and women with severe issues. Rebut that.

[TheSuaveOne]

5. The military...

...doesn't create them, their parents, and environments they grow up in do. Sure the military may get some to snap, but I would guess that something else would have if they would have never entered the military. McVeigh, is the the .001% of the military that does snap like this, so again, just because he was in the military doesn't mean it's the militaries fault...la

[abburdlen]

6. The fact he met his co-conspiriter

while he was in the service does not lead to the military caused problems. It wasn't the Army that turned him onto the Turner Diaries.

I think I understand what you are trying to say though.

[jonnyblitz]

15. Nichols WAS a vet , that is how he and Mc Veigh met

you are right Teena. good post, too, btw. :hug:

[abburdlen]

4. Agree

Let's not rekindle the meme that all combat vets are ticking time bombs.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

7. the difference between a Dem Patriot(Kerry) & a repuke Hateriot( McVeigh)

[abburdlen]

8. It is true

many, many men and women are coming home from service with scars that won't show up right away.


"Combat exposure contributed significantly to the likelihood of current post-traumatic stress disorder, major depressive disorder, drug and alcohol abuse, unemployment, job loss, separation or divorce, and abuse of a partner or spouse. In fact, the study showed that, on a societal level, 28 percent of PTSD, 21 percent of spousal abuse, 12 percent of job loss, 8 percent of substance abuse problems, and 7.4 percent of major depression could have been averted had the men not been exposed to combat."
from http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-01/yu-tcn012202.php

[TNOE]

9. Still a very good point

yes, lets not us Dems paint everybody with a broad stroke just because of McVeigh, but the GOP can hand out purple heart bandages to every dumbass in the room and disgrace all vets. I see. Thanks for making that clear.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mandate My Ass]

11. Probably about the same time

Bush admits he was a deserter and unseals all the records from his governorship of Texas.

[Sparkly]

13. Welcome to DU

First, Kerry was in Vietnam longer than 4 months, if the length of time matters. The fact that he was there at all, voluntarily, is a mark of his character and commitment to his country, and he has every right and reason to talk about it.

Second, he's talking about his plans for the future, and that's what matters most. The difficulty for senators running for president is that votes are cast for a variety of bills and a variety of reasons, as part of a process of negotiating; it's all too easy to take specific votes out of context and spin them. So no matter what he says, the other side could easily make an opposite mischaracterization.

I'd rather hear about his plans for healthcare, education, the economy, jobs, foreign policy, veterans, military deployment, the environment, etc... And he talks about those things constantly.

[TNOE]

14. Then why has your party NOT discouraged the

Swiftboat Vet ads? How can they with any good conscious whatsoever allow their party to tear down someone who voluntered for service in Vietnam when their own leaders were too chickenshit to go? Anyone who could support that trash while we have soldiers in Iraq getting blown up left and right needs their head examined - and their heart.

[TheSuaveOne]

12. Two wrongs...

...don't make it right...la