How do you talk to a religeous right wing republican?

[abrock]

I need help, because thats almost all my family has, on both sides.

Using my parents and mother's parents as an example, they are ALL religeous right repubs. None follow politics beyond what they hear on NPR and see on Fox when they watch it, which is rare. 90 percent of their news comes from what they overhear from coworkers, and talking to other family members. (who are also religeous right wing repubs) My dad works in healthcare, as a CFO at a major hosptial in the south, and my mom is a school teacher. You would think these 2 professions are the 2 that would definitely vote out Bush, because his healthcare and education policies have been horrible for the country, but, and I think my parents are representative of the bigger problem here, neither one knows about it, and even if they did, they would not care. My mom's parents are both retirees who worked their entire lives in the religeous book publishing industry and barely follow politics AT ALL (very uninformed folks, even worse than my parents), so naturally you know they are going to vote on morality each time no matter if our country is about to self destruct, because in their book, it would be what God willed anyway.

I don't think there is anything I can say to get any of them to THINK for themselves, but if you guys can come up with anything, I'd appreciate it. Being literally the only democrat in the family who is serious about politics (and then only because he sees the country about to turn to fascism) is very tough. I've long wondered whether a prerequisite for religeon is to stop thinking for yourself, but I'm pretty sure I know now. This cartoon sums it up for me:

http://www.ridiculouscomic.com/archive/comic18.shtml

[NMDemDist2]

1. WWJD?

doesn't the bible say you judge by people's actions?

point out Bush may talk a good game, but his actions aren't Christian at all

then cite stats on healthcare, poverty, war crimes etc etc

[ProdigalJunkMail]

10. while most do judge...

the bible actually states that you should not judge unless you are prepared to be judged as well. It DOES say, however, that you will KNOW them by their fruits (what they do).

On second thought, you didn't say, 'judge the person,' you were making a distinctive judgement...on WHAT the person is, not what to do about said person...

theProdigal

[M155Y_A1CH]

14. You will know them by their fruits

Jesus said that many false prophets would come after him.
When asked how one would recognize these fakes, Jesus said that
you would know them by their fruits. A good tree can only grow good fruit and an evil tree can only grow bad fruit.
Simply cite the examples of their bad fruits to show how evil they really are

[freetobegay]

2. Jesus is a liberal!

Just keep repeating that.

P.S. Welcome to DU. :)

[clydefrand]

6. Amen, Brother! Now why do the right wingers like Jesus?

[freetobegay]

9. Same reason they love war, but refuse to fight in them.

[ck4829]

3. Wow, your family is in deep

Here's my suggestions.

1. Tell them your side of the story, if they listen to Fox and NPR, perhaps you could add your input too.
2. Tell them how biased and stupid the news from Fox is.

I can't stress this enough, your family needs to know what Bush has done to education and healthcare.

[abrock]

7. Here is the problem:

I actually read Fox news every day to make sure I know what 'their side' is trying to do about each issue that comes up, but whenever I speak to ANYONE in my family about why Bush is bad for the country, you know what I'm told?

"You're brainwashed by all the ultra left wing news sources you read" (I don't watch TV)

They like to ignore the fact my primary source of news is the triumverate of BBC, CNN, and C-SPAN.

[iamjoy]

4. Ask If They Believe In Darwinism

when they say no (they believe in creation) ask why they support the Right's policies of "social darwinism"

if they say they think the poor deserve it because they have sinned, ask if they think Bill Clinton is a righteous man because he is so rich.

[Swamp Rat]

19. Good one!

Bring up Leo Strauss and neo-Hegelian philosophy, and Social Darwinism. This IS what PNAC and it's creators are foisting on our country. They are radicals that want to create a fascist state... but you already know all this.;)

Bush ain't no christian.

[JaySherman]

5. You don't.

There's no reasoning with these people. Don't even bother.

[Citizen Daryl]

13. What he said.

It's bad enough trying to reason with a non-religious Bush supporter.

[Puglover]

21. Religion is the absolute bedrock

of some folks belief systems. I agree....very hard to get through.

[demnan]

8. You need a right wing "fact" debunker

It's going to take a little research on your part but I'll try to steer you in the right direction.

When you receive one of these right wing emails, go to http://www.snopes.com to see what the facts are. They've debunked nearly all the right wing letters and because they are bi-partisan, some of the left wing ones too.

Site sources from the well known newspapers, for instance the New York Times and Washington Post both recently wrote extensive articles on the Swift-boat lies.

Didn't God say don't bear false witness?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

11. Check their clothing labels

Ask them if they believe the bible is the word of god.
Then ask them if the word of god should be obeyed.
Then check their clothing labels.
If they are wearing mixed fiber products, they are violating the word of god (ref. Leviticus).

[IdaBriggs]

12. Try this...

"Kerry was a prosecuting attorney before he was an assistant district attorney. Bush and friends are terrified he will get elected because they have been doing illegal things, and some of them will go to jail when Kerry is in office without Bush protecting them. These guys will say ANYTHING -- most of it lies or half truths -- to prevent that. I know its a shock to hear that criminals don't always tell the truth, but that's just the way it is. Yes, the media is talking about it SOME, but not a lot. You just can't trust the media, you know."

If they aren't watching the news, odds are pretty good they are fans of "Law and Order," so hopefully they will GET this argument. Meanwhile, turn everything they say into one more reason to vote Kerry. Be sympathetic to their plight. Its truly terrible they are being lied to, and they just can't trust ANYONE. And don't take it personal when they are skeptical; it just means they've heard "bad things" more than you've said "good things." Repeat, repeat, repeat. :)

Good luck! (And welcome to DU!)

[abrock]

15. Doesn't work.

They don't watch Law and Order, and every time I've convinced them to read an article that really destroys Bush with facts and clear logical thought processes, they just ignore it completely. They don't try to refute it, just just ignore it and continue on as if they never read it.

How the fuck do you deal with people that do this? I hope to god these people aren't a majority in this country.

[Locrian]

16. I wish I knew

I feel that is is actually a bigger problem than Bush. If we cant find out HOW to talk to people like this it means that TRUTH has been destroyed.

I just dont know how to get through either - it's been eating me for awhile but we have to find a way through to the "other side" or I fear we are in for a truly horrible fate.

For me its not so much about "how bad Bush is" - it's why sooo many believe in him and his adgenda hidden or otherwise.

[IdaBriggs]

18. Go with the Anti-Christ argument.

If facts don't work, hit them with this one:

"SOME evangelicals believe Bush is the Anti-Christ (because of starting wars in the middle east, and how he fits so many of the prophecies and stuff), and they believe the rapture has already come, and they are mad because they were "left behind" so they are going to vote him into office because He Really Is The Anti-Christ. I know that means those who follow the Anti-Christ are going to persecute me (try to look noble and long suffering when you are spouting this, please) because I won't bow to the whims of The Beast, but as for me and my house, we follow The Lord, so I'm voting for Kerry!"

You might want to start another thread -- someone had chapter and verse "proving" Bush is really the Anti-Christ.

Enjoy! :evilgrin:

[mmonk]

17. Just tell them that

you can't find the teachings of Jesus in any of their talking points, claims, or actions.

[lectrobyte]

20. I wish I knew, too

I was just visiting some of my more rabid right religious cousins, and I usually make every effort to stay off of politics. And religion. Anyway, we were talking about summer movies, and my wife happened to mention that we had seen F911. We had to endure about 10 minutes of BS about what all was "wrong" with the movie etc., and I finally chimed in with you've got an awfully f-ing big opinion there for not having seen the movie, thanks for your input, how did you like Spiderman 2? We probably won't be visiting them again soon.

To be fair though, I do find occasionally that bringing up economic/trade/energy related news and trying to frame that in political terms can be a good basis for discussion. I also find it helpful to try to stay in the New Testament, there's just way too much shit in the Old Testament that lends itself to the "cherry picking" that some people are want to do, especially if they feel attacked by a heathern liberal.

[zanana]

22. Never argue with crazy people. n/t

[Wapsie B]

23. Either don't talk to them

or you're going to need a deprogrammer highly skilled in this sort of thing.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. If their only worldview is religious, that's how you have to approach them

Their church may be telling them that alternative voices are Satanic, so you have to argue on the basis of the Bible and nothing else.

Find Bible verses and incidents that contradict the Republican worldview.

It isn't hard. For example, on school prayer, ask how the Republican position fits in with Jesus' admonition not to call attention to yourself while you're praying and to pray only in secret.

Remind them of the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

Look in the writings of the Jewish prophets for scathing condemnations of those who exploit the poor.

You won't convert them overnight. But you can chip away at the total information environment that large fundie churches wrap their people in.

[Beware the Beast Man]

25. Slowly, with small words

:evilgrin:

[Commendatori]

26. The King James bible, I'm told, was rewritten for the convenience of

King James, who wanted to get a divorce but couldn't because the then-existing bible didn't permit it. If this is true, your religious family, if they read it, are following a book that was altered to help one overprivileged guy out of a jam.

I'm not 100% sure this is true, but it's what I always use to get out of religious conversations, and I have never been shot down with it. If it isn't true, someone here will probably do it, but if it is it should help.

Sorry, but I'm an athiest, and this is the best that I have. :)