Nineteenth Century vs. the Twenty-First

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

When one listens to the GOP, it seems to me that they are echoing the same beliefs espoused by people in the 1800s and earlier. That was the time when 'manifest destiny' allowed people to think it was perfectly ok to destroy whole nations and take their lands and rob the people of their culture. It was fine to import slaves from Africa because this gave one the opportunity to 'Christianize' the 'pagans'. Nature was something to be conquered by whatever means possible. The US was the country that was particularly blessed, and all other nations were inferior.

When one listens to Democrats, it seems to me that their thinking reflects the reality that is the twenty-first century. We realize that we are part of one world-a world with instant news and communication. We realize that we must work together to try and gain a greater understanding of other cultures so that we can solve the problems facing the entire world.

Do you agree? Disagree?

[ezekiel333]

1. Agree eom

[charlyvi]

2. Agree...but also

They are pushing Social Darwinism--another belief espoused in the nineteenth century. The fittest survive, no matter if it is at the expense of those less fortunate or able. Bush couches this insanity as "pulling oneself up by the bootstraps". If you don't walk over your fellow human beings to get what you want--lots of money--then you deserve nothing. It didn't work in the nineteenth century, and it won't work now. I just worry about how much more damage will be done before people wake up.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Good point

competition was cutthroat back then. People stole ideas, crushed opponants using threats and economic blackmail. They adulterated products and made items that were unsafe. They exploited workers any way they could. During the Gilded Age robber barons were celebrated. There were no rules.

[charlyvi]

6. That is truly Bushworld.

80 hour workweeks, child labor, workingplace accidents commonplace. Nothing--absolutely nothing--cutting into corporate profit. If you're poor, disabled, unemployed you deserve it---you're lazy and shiftless. Yep, welcome to Bushworld.

[sweetheart]

9. and yet today in pure number terms

there are more slaves on the earth than ever before in human history.
Misery, poverty and mayhem rule much of the earth's surface, just
like the robber baron's time.

The illusion that things have progressed comes from the TV. Though
someone has walked on the moon, i can't help but notice that all
we've really done since WWII, is learn to mass murder people more
efficiently.

Where is the beef. All this technology without wise and enlightened,
informed citizens, is just a tinder box.

The 21st century could easily be remembered as the one that made the
20th look like a few tiny wars. In 2104, they'll write how in the
22nd, nobody will repeat the mistakes of the nuclear war of 2015,
the global warming wars of 2050 and the asian american war of 2060
that killed 1 billion from american bioweapons.

This sort of talk, has precedent in 1904, when people thought that
a modern technological age had changed human history forever.
God forbid we are as wrong as they were.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. One correction

if bushco is elected, the nuclear war will happen in 2005, not 2015. Neocons are already talking about taking out Iran, and N. Korea won't wait to be the third country invaded.

[charlyvi]

14. But in the US

Working conditions, hours worked, pay, social safety nets (social security, Medicaid, social services for the poor) have vastly improved since the nineteenth century. In fact, social service programs did not exist then. The poor, sick and very old were left to charity or to die. You cannot possible say that conditions in this country have not improved.

[sweetheart]

15. net net for all peoples... have things improved?

If we include the states where america has meddled in the last
100 years to make your study fair, so that there is no exogenous
set. Then you must account for the people of iran who's democratic
government we overthrew in the 50's.. lebannon, haiti, cuba,
phillipines, chile, argentina, indonesia and viet nam to name a
few places permanently modified by "improved culture".

I take your point as given. Great! Now where is the generosity
and goodwill that got us womens sufferage, labour safety nets and
the like. It is a mostly forgotten chapter of american history that
neocons are busy tearing out of the history book.

We should be optimistic, but historically aware that pretty much
every time we've set out beyond our borders to set something right,
we've made a collossal mess. I'm sure you would not be able to
speak for the advancements you just put forward, in afganistan,
haiti or iraq. Cuba is closest by thumbing its nose at american
destructive colonialism.

What appears then, is that a few small people in the USA benefit from
something, while most people in the US and abroad are destroyed and
killed by the same forces that claim to be good for providing
for the small elite. What victory is that? The american indians
had better social welfare before the white man arrived, low crime
rates, no prison problems.... and we have still not come close to
achieving what the red-man we exterminated once achieved.

For all the technology and the modern medicine, we are decidedly
barbaric. Its putting lipstick on a pig.

[HawkerHurricane]

3. Republicans want to replace...

the system that defeated communism with the system that SPAWNED communism.

[JohnKleeb]

11. whos the person who originally said that HH? Ive heard it before

[HawkerHurricane]

12. I don't know. I'll google...

and tell you.

[sweetheart]

4. Empire or not?

Either the USA is a global empire, or it is a country in north
america. If it is the former, then colonial wars are part of it,
and both the democrats and the pukes are imperialists. One knows
how to use force more eloquently.

That might indeed sound nice to say democrats are 21st century
focused, but it is simply not true. The same neoliberalism and
militarist empire are root to both corporate parties.

I disagree. Only those who put down the mantle of empire have
the wherewithal to speak of a 21st century not inheriting its bloody
mantle of colonial wars from past ages of man.

[Maple]

7. Disagree

While the Republicans certainly want to return to the values of yesteryear, the ...cough cough...Democrats, aren't ....cough cough...much further ahead.

Republicans live in the 1950's, but Democrats are only in the 1960's.

Cough.

[David Dunham]

8. OK. I'll settle for the 1960s.

[Maple]

13. But we're not IN

the 1960's.

So that's not a option.