What's your worst fear right now ?

[sffreeways]

Poll question: What's your worst fear right now ?

There is so much talk of fear coming from the left. And now we have all of this discussion from DU about leaving the country because people are afraid. I'm curious about the worst case scenario. What is it that can be put into words that is at the heart of all of this abandoning America talk ?

I have my threshold for leaving but if it happened it would be too late and there would be no place on earth that was safe and the government wouldn't let us leave at that point anyway.

Sorry if the poll is morbid, I don't think it is. I really would like to know what it is that DU'ers think we are in for that would cause them to want to give up on their country and their neighbors, family, friends, life ?

And do you really believe that your worst fear could happen. How serious is the potential for your worst case scenario ? Is it even remotely possible ?

Maybe if folks could see their fears were irrational or simply impossible it would relieve some of the anxiety around here. Maybe seeing that others feel the same way would make us feel some courage collectively.

What do you think the conservatives are afraid of politically in all of this ? What's their worst case scenario ? Do you think they are counting on the fear coming from the left ? Do conservatives have the same fear as liberals ?

Is there a scenario in which Kerry wins and everything is fine ? We go back to where we were before all of this nightmare started ?

I've never posted a poll before, I hope I covered enough choices to get a feel for what is driving all of this leave the country doomsday talk.

[JSJ]

1. i have no fear- what the fuck are you going on about? nt

[sffreeways]

3. Just log on ?

And not notice the ten or so threads about fear ? What the fuck are you on ?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[libhill]

15. For some of us

it's not fear, it's fucking disgust - with an administration that constantly regurgitates rhetoric about freedom, and then tries to deprive the freedoms of anyone who disagrees with their Nazi agenda. Its disgust, with chicken hawk assholes who used their privileged connections to get out of serving in 'Nam, by joining the National Guard, and not even living up to that commitment, or who got 5 deferments because they had "other priorities". And they have the gall, the audacity, to attack Kerry on his war record, a man who fought and bled for this country. It's disgust, with a lying ass Administration, that constantly throws terror alerts in our face, and then ignores or dodges the fact that the biggest terrorist on the planet, Osama Bin Laden, is still running loose out there , and they obviously don't give a shit. It's disgust, with the dumb ass American voting public, that is too fucking stupid to see through the hypocrisy of these anus cavities - well, I could go on for 1,000 pages, but I think you catch my drift.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[JSJ]

17. more words of fear from you- you caution against a personal attack...

...and then post one. Anyway, someone who makes a poll consisting of some 6 or 7 choices indicating fear and only one no-fear choice ain't fooling anyone, bub. You're SCARED!

[donheld]

6. if you have no fear

you either haven't be paying attention, or are one of the freepers

[JSJ]

11. those are my only options? i'm either inattentive or i'm a freeper?

How about I'm an adult who has pretty much gotten over that stage of infantile emotion, which is what you're peddling here.

[donheld]

40. ok fine

give me your option

:bounce:

[JSJ]

41. don't be a wuss nt

[donheld]

44. how so?

i think you read me wrong to start with or are you always hostile? :shrug:

[JSJ]

45. being called inattentive and/or a freeper would bring out...

...the aggressive in any progressive. Yet, I wasn't trying to be hostile, as you well know. Your hostility, however, demonstrated by your hurling those terms at me, was apparent. And, you continue to show a hostile edge by the 'are you always hostile' accusation in your latest post. Yes?

[donheld]

46. that was not my intent

i'm FAR from a freeper, ask my freeper mom. i did not mean to be hostile nor did i mean to "hurl terms" with any of these posts only inquisive

:bounce:

[JSJ]

48. let's forget it and put it in the past, where it belongs- okay? nt

[donheld]

49. gladly

:bounce::toast:

anyway i'm going to bed :hi:

[Maleficus]

2. Fear?

Why fear the repukes? I don't fear them one bit.

If they want to start something, I say "Bring it on!".

[donheld]

7. what are you going to do

once they "bring it on?"

[JSJ]

12. what's it to YOU, donheld? you're going to be incapacitated by...

...your trembling fear long before the shit actually hits the fan.

[donheld]

39. i won't be trembling at all

but i could always use hints on how to stay possitive

:bounce:

[screembloodymurder]

25. People are losing their jobs, careers, friends.

There's plenty to fear. Fear the loss of liberty. How many of you feel uncomfortable talking politics with friends, at work, at family gatherings? Have you seen the "free speech zones" where they're hearding protestors? Have you read the Patriot Act?

[The Traveler]

4. We haven't hit the bottom yet

The Right Wing Myth hasn't driven us into the pavement yet. I'm quite willing to ride with the rest of my brothers and sisters to the bottom ... but how far down is it? How long till we release the fantasies of "power and glory and destiny changed in the wink of an eye"?

As a people, we are not powerless ... we can do positive things ... but do not have the power to change people into what we are. A little introspection would indicate maybe we better learn from folk a bit, and not worry so much about force fitting them into our mold. We can do something about climate change. But there is little we positive can accomplish while our heads are buried in the sand.

What do I fear most? The country veers fascist. My sons are coerced into the military. They participate in atrocites. They die broken old men still trying to cleanse the shitstain from their souls.

[AndyTiedye]

5. All of the Above

Kerry wins Bush steals the election again
and does it so completely (with the aid of Gallup, diebold, ABC, CNN,
Faux, and NBC) that what the rest of the world sees is:
Kerry doesn't win not even close
Leading to:
Another terrorist attack that throws us into the dark ages
...republicans get violent and the country goes fascist
Bush ... attacks other countries with nukes.

We really don't want to go there.

[sffreeways]

13. I missed that one, all of the above

that's really something to fear. Ugh.

[sffreeways]

8. So far

Bush wins and the country goes fascist is getting the most votes. There is something for the folks that are thinking about leaving the country to consider.

Fascism is something that can be overcome. Fascism can be fought, challenged and has been overcome in the past.

Blatant fascism after a Bush victory would push the people thinking Bush is a good leader, an honest and decent leader away from him. America knows how to fight fascism.

When those people talking about having to leave the country give this some consideration they will realize that it's not an option. It's our history to fight fascism. It's a part of us and although they may be afraid history tells us that we will win the fight against fascism in America. Besides Bush in my opinion doesn't have the stature of a fascist dictator like Hitler. He's a corrupt moron, he's not Stalin.

One thing that I've realized while thinking about this that's really traumatic is that it will never go back to the way things were when Bill Clinton was president. Not anytime soon. We have a huge battle on our hands no matter what happens. We are going to have to fight not matter what happens. Fear and all we have to.

[anarchy1999]

14. Kudos, well said. (Although I must admit we are a couple that have

been being seriously swayed in both directions). It's that "pendulum affect". Right now we are in the extreme phase of leaving, many of our best friends and mentors have already or are getting ready to. We really do feel as though we are having to re-live an ugly part of our not so distant past.

We don't fear this election. We fear what is coming for this country. There don't seem to be many signs pointing positive in any direction.

There is a song I think,

"It's been a long time coming....."

[sffreeways]

21. Same here I vacillate

When I saw Mrs Neirderer (mother of a soldier killed in Iraq) being arrested the other day after she shouted a few questions at Laura Bush I was floored. I was totally unprepared for something so blatantly fascist and I've said in another thread that the police didn't seem at all reluctant to arrest her and that was shocking.

That incident in and of itself was disturbing but the silence that has followed by America is a bad sign in my mind. That's the kind of fascism that on an increasing incident is a really good indicator that we have crossed the line.

I'm wondering if your friends that are leaving are college proffesors ? I've heard several intellectual professionals say they are leaving too and isn't that the way the exodus began in Nazi Germany with intellectuals ?

I agree that it's not the election anymore it's the climate that we are in now. It's more than Bush it's his followers.

[anarchy1999]

35. As a matter of fact yes.

Two college professors and a woman and her husband that had been very active in the Peace Community for years. They actually returned last year from Costa Rica to attend the SOA Watch in November. They put their house up for sale as soon as the bombs started to drop in March and retired to Costa Rica.

The others -
One was a history professor at a UTD, his wife founded NTJP, she did not believe that dropping bombs on Afghanistan was the way to respond to 9/11, they left in June last year to Canada.

The other is an economics professor holding a special chair at UTD. He's leaving for Europe the first of next year. He also has a band called Halliburton(s), they played in Ireland this summer and were well received. www.halliburtons.com check them out.

And yes you are right, it was many of the intellectuals that left, but many as well were lost because they waited too long. They believed in the humanity of man and that what was happening could not happen.

[blackcat77]

9. Bush and Status Quo

They don't need to go radical on us. Just boil the frog slowly and the sheeple will never say a word.

[Ladyhawk]

18. One thing that weighs heavily on my mind...

...is the fact that I really have no life here in the United States. Even before things got nasty under *, my mind was in Australia, hoping that there would be people there who understood me. Barring that, I hoped to move to the coast where there are hardly any wingnuts.

You see, my family are hard right-wingers and fundamentalists. When I left that abyss, I lost everything: my health, family support, friends. There's nothing here for me now. Why fight?

Then another part of me kicks in and says, "Because it's the right thing to do." And so I'll fight. But I won't say I'm not afraid. And I really can't say I feel all that patriotic. All I know is that the power of the United States cannot be wielded by these crazy-ass fascists-in-the-making.

Yes, I am afraid. For those of you who aren't, good for you! It takes all kinds. But spare a thought for those of us who are different. The Democratic Party is supposed to be about oneness and trying to understand one another.

My emotional makeup is probably nothing like yours. I've come to believe I process information differently from most people. I can take only so much before I completely shut down. That kind of nervous system is bound to feel all emotions more strongly. Studies show that in any given population 15-20% of people have this highly sensitive makeup. It isn't desirable in this society, so we already have it pretty rough. Add the stress of a crucial election and we're seriously NOT OK. (Interestingly, high sensitivity is considered a positive trait in China. I wouldn't want to live in a communist country, but it would have been nice to have been understood every once in awhile.)

High sensitivity carries some strengths, as well, but they are not as likely to show up in such an emotionally-charged setting. If we're not emotionally hyped, sensitive people can be peacemakers and voices of reason.

I only wish I could give according to my potential. It was so great at one time, but I was born into the wrong family and possibly into the wrong time.

"I wish the Ring had never come to me," lamented Frodo. "I wish none of this had happened."

"So do all who live to see such times," replied Gandalf. "All you have to do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you."

[libhill]

19. You seem to be doing

all right - I'm high strung myself, and I can't even think about what's happening to this country without flying into a foul mouthed rage. At least you can express your feelings without going into a rant. Lol - wish I could do the same. Good luck, whatever comes our way.

[anarchy1999]

20. Dear LadyHawk,

I don't think my heart has ever been so touched, so quickly, by any post I've ever read at DU. Thanks. And there have been many posts, we've been around since 2001.

[sffreeways]

22. I totally respect your fear I think it's valid absolutely

My post was not intended to dump on anyone that's afraid I understand exactly what you're saying and glad you did.


I expressed it better here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2375838&mesg_id=2376052&page=

it's very nice to mock people because they are afraid. Honestly, we have good reason to be. Instead of humiliating our fellow DU'ers for their valid feelings it would be more compassionate to reassure them if you feel so confident that things won't get out of hand (not that they haven't already but more out of hand than they are). Besides won't you feel like a jerk if you end up being wrong.

I think people are genuinely afraid, I know I'm very concerned about things like small pox and suitcase nukes. If you give any of those things some thought they can really work you into a lather.

Without having even a wild imagination if the two terrible things I mentioned happened even if you weren't one of the people directly attacked the repercussions of them would be horrendous. The food shortages if a port were attacked, the panic, the world could become our worst nightmare overnight. And isn't that what people are really expressing ? The fear that W will turn our country into a war zone from coast to coast as his power is threatened or increased. Friggen frightening stuff.

I know the Nazi Germany analogy is cliche but I'm sure there were Germans assuring other Germans they were being alarmist when they were considering fleeing too. And I think that's the worst fear, that like those Germans that stayed who wanted to leave when things hadn't taken a turn for the worst yet they don't want to find themselves deeply regretting their decision.

If I had children (sigh) I would probably be far more concerned than I am.

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture U ( I get annoyed with lecturing myself) but I feel empathy for people that are scared. My Mom is frightened and she talks about getting us out of here too. And she isn't a DU'er or reading stuff on the INTERNET and getting all worked up.

Even if it's just about the political stuff, who the hell wants to live in a fascist shit hole ? I know I don't want some jackboot knocking on my door and taking me away to a football stadium for processing into the re-education camp in Utah where you swear a loyalty oath to Dick Cheney or have your brain microwaved.

Anyone that's afraid my message is don't panic. If you really want to leave make some plans for an emergency. Pick a destination and put some money away and for chrissake take a break from the INTERNET and the television for awhile. Maybe even talk with your Dr. about a mild tranquilizer to calm yourself down a bit. Decide what the threshold is for leaving. Don't drive yourself mad and terrorize your kids and your aging parents with your own anxiety. It's like planning for any emergency, when you have a plan to fall back on and you're prepared it takes the edge off.

I just don't think it's that silly to be afraid. A lot of folks never imagined in their wildest moments we would be in a situation like this in America. That alone is very disconcerting. You have my sympathy.

I really am interested in what people's fears are specifically. Not just that we are afraid of Bush but of what can happen now that all of this has taken place. It's much bigger than Bush now.

[JSJ]

23. you recommend de becker, yet he is a professional fear monger...

...and a rabid right-winger. He does business with the CIA, the US Marshall Service, the DIA, the Missouri Hwy Patrol, Supreme Court security, as well as Congressional security, and a hodgepodge of corporate and government agencies. The personel in his firm are usually ex-government types, including ex-cops, ex-spec ops, and a plethora of other ex-gov types. In short, he is no friend to ordinary Americans. His mission is to ratchet up the fear quotient to make his business more profitable. Now, what's your connection to this spook, other than the shared mission to make people more afraid than they already are?

[RFKHumphreyObama]

43. While most people were opposed to the war in Australia

<Even before things got nasty under *, my mind was in Australia, hoping that there would be people there who understood me>

The present conservative government has been a blatant cheerleader for *, committing our soldiers and resources to the war in Iraq despite overwhelming opposition, failing to stand up for the rights of detainees at Guantanomo (even amidst evidence that at least one has been abused) and our Prime Minister still insisted very recently that he was confident that they would find WMDs in Iraq. In addition our Prime Minister has committed himself to launching a pre-emptive military strike on any nation which he considered a potential terrorist threat to Australia (and has been flip flopping all week on whether this would include neighboring countries with friendly governments) and who blatantly played the anti-immigration race card to win the last election. And there is every chance he will win the next election

Are you sure you want to move here?

[Kenneth ken]

24. other

a - either we stay in Iraq and slowly bleed to death in terms of troops, morale, and money,
or
b - we pull out of Iraq, and the Muslim world sees it as a defeat, and brings the war to the US - not a terrorist attack, many, many terrorist attacks.

Among bin Laden's stated goals are getting the US completely out of the Arabian peninsula; pulling out of Iraq will definitely be seen in the Muslim world, and evidence that, just like the USSR, we are defeatable.

That said, I'm not going anywhere. This is the land where I was born, it's where I'm staying.

[dmr]

26. My greatest fear is

another four years of Bush*, more war, a draft, and the continued errosion of our country in oh, so many ways.

I'd be lying if I said I didn't share the pain and fears of my fellow DUers. I've decided, however, not to read their threads, but to instead utilize my energies toward Senator Kerry's victory. I refuse to fall into a trap of despair, and will remain optimistic and hopeful until after the election.

If Bush* should win or steal the election, I will stay and fight. Along the way, those who voted for the man will regret their vote, and I plan to be here to educate and fight with them - in any way I am able.

I love this country. I believe in the U.S. Constitution. I believe this country is worth fighting for. When you read through our short history, our country has had moments of dispair, but there is a big difference from then and now, and that is the loss of the 5th Estate.

Right now I just don't want to contemplate a Bush* win. I am not a defeatist. I suppose I'll have to face it if that crossroad happens.

It's really nice to see you back posting, sff. You've been missed.
:hi: :hug:

[sffreeways]

27. Thanks I'm really glad to be back

and I've missed you guys alot

:grouphug:

:pals:

:cry:

[BurtWorm]

34. Hi sffreeways!

You may not remember me, but I sent you a PM about veterans service organizations not long after I started posting here. I hope everything's okay with you and yours. Welcome back! :hi:

[Dees]

28. Welcome back sf!!

[Aunt Anti-bush]

29. I'm afraid that on November 2nd

I wont be able to sleep after Kerry's announced the winner. I wont believe it until I see him sworn in.

[sffreeways]

30. Can you imagine the pay back

for the egg throwing at Bush's inagural ? The screeching idiots will be out in throngs to ruin it.

[dmr]

31. yea, and that will be one protest

the cable news will televise. Oh, the hypocrisy ...

[Aunt Anti-bush]

50. I can tell you this much...

If there IS a Bush inaugural, I'll be buying a lot of eggs, that's for sure. :)

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

32. Never felt much at home here anyway

As an intellectual and a scholar I am considered worse than useless by American society, despite whatever degrees/awards I obtain with my work. I have understood this since I was a small child and have fantasized about emigrating my entire life.

My worst fear is not being able to avoid my neighbors. My worst fear is being united, not being divided. I would be more afraid of sleeping in a barracks or prison dormitory (the two options coming up) full of Americans, than I am of decapitation or suicide bombings. I am more afraid of what typical Americans eat than I am of death.

So, fascism, yes, but it's always been here in my opinion. All cops are fascists, and they're the ones with the power on most streets (besides the ones run by fascist crack dealers). It's really an other--less a fear for my physical safety than the loss of my ability to avoid the people I share this country with.

[Ron Green]

33. The dictionary definition of "courage" is wrong....

it's something like, "having no fear," or "acting without fear," or something like that. This is ridiculous, because without fear there is no need or chance to exercise courage. Instead, I suggest that courage is feeling fear and then doing the right thing anyway. This process requires two very different processes: 1) Being in touch with one's own deepest emotions, and 2) Knowing, through observation and reflection, what the right thing to do actually IS. Freeper types don't do either one of these processes very well. If there's anything they're afraid of, it's their own fear, or the loss of their foolish pride. About as far from true courage as you can get.

[Kanary]

36. Disability benefits or housing cut, and left with nothing

I cannot survive on the street, especially with my health problems, so that would be the end of me.

I suspect this is coming, whoever wins in Nov, and it has had me scared for quite some time now.

So, I am "Other".

Kanary

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Another terrorist attack. It would provide the "Reichstag fire".

Then follows the crackdown on all dissent in the name "national security". All with with approval of a frightened, angry, American people.

I fear it the most, because I see it as very probable. Al-Queyda wants a cultural war and would love to see the Boob-in-Chief reelected to make that likely.

[AngryOldDem]

38. Our Reichstag Fire was 9/11

My fear is a Bush win will give him the dangerous idea that he has a mandate to do whatever he wants, because he will. My second fear is that a Bush win will be the tripwire for a general mass-coordinated uprising throughout the Mideast, with the U.S. smack in the middle with nowhere to go. I'll leave it to your imagination to come up with what Bush would do if that happened.

On the homefront, like you, I look for the subtle intimidation and social polarization that most of us have experienced in some way, shape or form during this election cycle to intensify one hundred-fold. There will be no dissent, because if the Mideast blows up, it will only bring out the rabid fascism here at home -- only the friendly neighborhood freeps will do the dirty work of the government to keep the dissidents in line -- patriotism, you know. The U.S. will rally 'round the flag as never before, and we will think nothing of the government cancelling all of our rights and freedoms in the name of security.

I keep thinking of a quote by a British ambassador just prior to the start of World War I: "I see the lights going out all over Europe." Very prophetic, in more ways than one. If Bush wins, that will be just as true here.

[grace0418]

42. I know that Bush cannot win

Sure, there are A LOT of really stupid people in this country, but if the election is even remotely fair, Kerry will easily win because we all know the polls are complete bullshit. Even the polls that have Kerry ahead are bullshit because they don't show just how far ahead he is.

Now, that's not to say that BushCo won't do everything in their power to cheat their way into the WH (again). If they manage to pull off another illegal "win" and if they manage to convince enough people that it was legit, there is no telling where they will go next. Clearly they'll think that they can do absolutely anything they want and we won't be able to stop them. Extreme fascism, fundamentalist Christian doctrine, gay/liberals/minorities "disappearing," it's going to get ugly folks.

[Cat Atomic]

47. Another Great Depression.

If Bush gets in again, I honestly think we may have one.

[orpupilofnature57]

51. U.N. believed idiot

because if thats the case,we're all in trouble.

[althecat]

52. Combination of 1 and 7

Terrorist attack followed by Bush Victory, violence and a fascist takeover.

[MadProphetMargin]

53. Not gonna run. This is MY goddamned country.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. I chose the wrong answer.

:spank: I chose: Bush wins and throws the country back to fascism. I should have chosen: Kerry wins and Bush STEALS it because that is what they are going to try to do.

[kayell]

55. Facism in US, burning of Bill of Rights, US imperialism

8 days until the October Plan

[Bridget Burke]

56. Lots of unpleasant possibilities in that list.

Perhaps "Kerry wins but the presidency is stolen again" seems most likely to me. But nothing on this list is making me hide under the bed. Believe me, I've already got a private list to deal with.

If someone has the money, connections and/or professional training to move to another country--good for them. It's a big world, with lots to offer. But, must they flounce out of the room, twirling their cloaks about them with such diva-like drama?

[arwalden]

57. Combination Answer...

Kerry wins, but Bush* steals... AND... country goes (more) fascist.

If Bush* wins I see a country SO SPLIT and divisions so DEEP that we risk civil unrest that borders on civil war. America (as we know it) will not survive under another Bush* presidency.