Kofi Annan: US invasion of Iraq illegal

[Padraig18]

Iraq war illegal, says Annan


Kofi Annan says security must improve for elections to go ahead in Iraq
The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter.
He said the decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council, not unilaterally.

"Painful lessons" have been learnt by the international community since the war in Iraq, he said.

And he feared elections planned for January would not go ahead in Iraq unless security considerably improved.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm

[Catholic Sensation]

1. Kofi Annan: 9-11 Illegal

the United Nations astounds me with how quick they are on the uptake.

[Fridays Child]

4. Are you suggesting the two are connected?

Iraq and 9-11?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fridays Child]

8. Based on your post, I asked a very straightforward, nonjudgmental...

...question. Assailing my intelligence is fr**perish and uncalled for.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Selwynn]

32. What does 9/11 have to do with anything?

[Pallas180]

40. Uh, I dont understand your question - ? ? ?

[K-W]

47. Can we all just deal with the fact that these things move slowly.

Instead of constantly whining with Kofi comes out too late, or CBS stands up too late, or the democratic party moves left too late.

This is how this stuff works.

[Catholic Sensation]

50. SOMEONE UNDERSTOOD MY POINT

HOLY FUCKIN SHIT SOMEONE GOT WHAT I MEANT.

But...

The UN waits till tens of thousands of people are murdered in Sudan before declaring genocide and still hasn't actually done anything about it; the UN waits one and a half years before pointing out we illegally interrupted the sovereignty of a, relatively, peaceful nation.

Fuck "these things take time." The goal of the UN is to promote peace and make the world a better place. Allowing countries to attack one another and waiting 500 days to say anything doesn't achieve this.

Oh, some of you people need to go back to school. My point wasn't that subtle. :eyes:

edit: to add "illegally" and make it bold

[goodhue]

66. this is not new

Annan has long said invasion contravened UN charter and international law. He is making it more explicit now to pressure the US into recruiting UN protection force so that the UN can actually get on the ground in Iraq in a meaningful way so as to be ready for January elections.

[shoopnyc123]

2. He is 1,000 corpses late!

I'm disgusted...

[bryant69]

6. I'm not sure I understand this remark

What exactly should Mr. Annan have done? Declared war on the United States?

The real world is that once we decided what we were going to do, there was little that Mr. Annan could do about it; and if he had confronted us directly there was very real possibility the Bush Administration might have used that to pull out of the UN completely (which, let's face it, is a dream of the right wing, anyway).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[PissedOffPollyana]

11. Annan was there at the beginning

He was emphatic about the invasion being illegal and against the UN Charter when it was just being pitched and straight through to the present. However, with the two leading rogue nations in question having veto power in the SC, there was little he could do but condemn the whole sordid thing. This, once again, he did. Often.

Secretary General is not exactly the catbird seat of power, you know.

[otohara]

54. What About Dead Iraqi's

don't they count?

[cthrumatrix]

3. let's see CNN, FOX, Repugs in Congress jump on this issue...!

thi sis bigger than "memocrap"

[peacetalksforall]

7. The key here is that inch by inch people are coming out of their

shock at our actions and their voice is growing. We are going to see a few PNACers and military in world courts. And a Presidential pardon isn't going to mean anything.

Action today - Kofi Annan speaking out in very serious way.
Actions yesterday - Spain teaming up with Germany and France (in part)
Action day before yesterday - Australia announcing that they can't account for 60 of 154 of their people who are in Iraq (hopefully its a temporary unaccounting).

[Pallas180]

10. I think it means Bush,Cheney, Powell, & Company can be named war criminals

and that would be the biggest present this world could receive.

[peacetalksforall]

14. Yes, in looking back at who has continually bashed the UN (and

who sneered and back-slapped them in 2002-3), I hold the UN in higher esteem. The passion that has been unleashed against them by some our leaders inside and outside the WH over the years now represents context towards my understanding of their plan for the world which has the UN in the way. Just recently, one of them claimed that the UN has been highjacked by Moslems.

Pallas180 - thanks for the thread on Stanley Hilton through Zakheim. I'll be reading it all tonight.

[sweetheart]

12. hey better late than never

Kofi, dude, good work... a little late, but good to hear you speak
before november's poll. Now, howabout you speak deeper truth.

If it was illegal, then whom is responsible? Should they be indicted
for war crimes? Come on, mate, get the brain in gear and show
you've gotta pair. This cowardly UN thing, pisses me off. Kofi
has every right to screw bush to the wall, and he should do it
with every press minute.

Does Kofi not think that bush would have him in plantation chains
were he to have his way?

[stavka]

15. Duh! -ain't that the point...

We have become an illegal state.

[Pallas180]

16. Yes but WE wont be tried as war criminals, Rumsfeld & Bush & Cheney

and Powell will be, and with war crimes of what they have done to prisoners in Gitmo and Abu Graib on top of it, so will Generals.

Interesting. I wonder if Pappy is going to try to send hit men after
Kofi - he better not fly. there's going to be a real struggle and war going on.

I'd say the bushco's plate is full, and about to come crashing down.

Powell must be soiling himself. He's the only one in touch with reality and the brains to know what this means.

They might even have to release Saddaam, although the Iraquis would not let him go.

And what about the puppet government they've tried to set up in Iraq?

This is an explosive announcement by Kofi Annan.

[stavka]

17. We might 50 years from now if we "lose"....

[Pallas180]

19. If you read the link you see Kofi doesn't see much that can be

done about it....it's an illegal war and he doesn't have an army to
arrest or fight the violators...Bush...that's too bad.

The US under Bush is the 800 pound gorilla who nobody is going to tell to move.

Although there seem to be a lot of countries arming themselves since
Bush has announced his pre emptive empire plans

[Dark]

18. KICK

:kick:

[USA_1]

20. Illegal

I agree that Bush's criminal war is illegal. I signed on with Ramsey Clark's petition in which it was indicated that the war's illegality constitutes grounds for impeachment.

But can the world community indict Bush?

Possibly, for violation of the Nuremburg doctrine.

And what of Blair --- can the ICC indict him?

DEFINITELY!

Why? Because the UK has signed on with the ICC.

So, let's get him!!!

An indictment of Blair and other "coalition of the willing" half-hearts will definitely put a stop to these incessant wars.

[Cleita]

21. I'm watching this show about Tibet and the Dalai Lama going

into exile. What the Chinese did when they invaded Tibet is what we are doing to Iraq. The Tibetans religion doesn't let them hate or retaliate. We aren't going to have that luxury from the Iraqis.

[AntiFascist]

22. Wow!!

It's about time. They really are criminals! Now, c'mon Dan Rather, run with this, you're our only hope.

[thebigidea]

23. Golly, maybe the "security situation" is because of the lack of elections!

Naw, its because they hate freedom!

[Disturbed]

24. Most Iraqis know this.

The Hand-Over That Wasn't: Illegal Orders give the US a Lock on Iraq's Economy
by Antonia Juhasz

Officially, the U.S. occupation of Iraq ended on June 28, 2004. But in reality, the United States is still in charge: Not only do 138,000 troops remain to control the streets, but the "100 Orders" of L. Paul Bremer III remain to control the economy.

These little noticed orders enacted by Bremer, the now-departed head of the now-defunct Coalition Provisional Authority, go to the heart of Bush administration plans in Iraq. They lock in sweeping advantages to American firms, ensuring long-term U.S. economic advantage while guaranteeing few, if any, benefits to the Iraqi people.

The Bremer orders control every aspect of Iraqi life - from the use of car horns to the privatization of state-owned enterprises. Order No. 39 alone does no less than "transition from a … centrally planned economy to a market economy" virtually overnight and by U.S. fiat.

Although many thought that the "end" of the occupation would also mean the end of the orders, on his last day in Iraq Bremer simply transferred authority for the orders to Prime Minister Iyad Allawi - a 30-year exile with close ties to the CIA and British intelligence.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0805-07.htm

*Kerry and Edwards know it, as well!

[moondust]

25. Well then, let's get to prosecuting!

Enuff talk already! Call the Hague!

[cthrumatrix]

30. bingo.....where are the senate on this revalation?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leesa]

27. I wish you could think.

This was not a defensive action in any way, shape or form. The UN is entirely within its rights to discuss the massive problems the US has caused because it is impacting EVERY country on earth. WE are using genocide in Iraq and it must be stopped.

They need to apply sanctions to the US until we stop our rogue behavior.

Your attitude is beligerent, shallow and childish.

[Bridget Burke]

28. Much of the world does care what Kofi Annan thinks.

The BBC news (on BBCAMERICA) led with this story today. And it detailed the steps to war in Iraq. Finally, it showed scenes of Iraq today. Blood and death.

Do you know the primary charges at the Nuremberg Trials? Not the "only following orders" trials of the small fry, but the ones for the big Nazi fish? Here are the counts:

1) Conspiracy to Wage Aggressive War

2) Waging Aggressive War, or "Crimes Against Peace"

3) War Crimes

4) Crimes Against Humanity

The invasion of Iraq was an Aggressive War. Those who started it committed a crime. This was pointed out by the head of the organization our country helped found to prevent future wars.

[Pallas180]

34. Good one BRIDGET. You should start another thread named

War Criminals and put that info in the header body....

it's important for people to realize the criminality...then they'll talk about people being convicted at Nuremberg for the same thing...

I have a feeling, Kofi and the UN have another shoe to drop...

And won't that be a great day!

[Pallas180]

35. Do we write, call the UN? France,? Germany? what do we

do to get the ball rolling?

[Pallas180]

36. Do we write, call the UN? France,? Germany? what do we

do to get the ball rolling?

[Pallas180]

37. Do we write, call the UN? France,? Germany? what do we

do to get the ball rolling?

[Pallas180]

38. Do we write, call the UN? France,? Germany? what do we

do to get the ball rolling?

[veracity]

29. Anan's statement makes Bush a Terrorist! - (MUST READ)

In fact - by FBI definition, as well as UN Charter Law, Bush is not only a Terrorist.... He's the World's LEADING Terrorist, by number....

Pdf to download and distribute to the unclued:
http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/george_w__bush_-_world_s_leadi.html

[Pallas180]

31. Well, is it up to Americans or other countries to demand the Hague

for the cabal??

Or who is going to kidnap them and bring them to the Hague?

800 pound gorillas because of their armaments and technology.

But if the UN charges them, America is saved

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Not only illegal, but lost.

Not one thing that was promised to happen when this "war" was proposed has occurred. Iraq is no more free now than it was under Sadddam. It is far, very far, from being a democracy. It has done nothing to "stop terrorism", in fact it has added to the threat. Our, "heroic" military is still attempting to subdue a population that despises it with an iron hand. It has made America a pariah among nations. And, the sorry list goes on.

Mission accomplished.

[Pallas180]

39. Now Bush is admitting Iraq will prolly go into civil war...this is

exactly what he said when he gave one of his first speeches..

that he was going to export chaos...

bastard.

How is it they think they personally can avoid harm.....

It's okay with them if American people get nuked and killed, but they
think they have safety.

I dont need to finish this thought.

[ElementaryPenguin]

41. Say it loud, folks! ILLEGAL!!! War Criminals!

I only wish a majority of Americans gave a shit.

[NeonLX]

42. Exactly. And what is Kofi gonna do about it?

Tell the teacher? Bush doesn't care because he's never been held accountable for anything. Ever. Why would that change now?

[veracity]

43. Remember that Bush is exempt from the World Court...

and....has veto power over the SC in the UN.
and....has a GOP Congress that will never impeach.
and....a lapdog press that has NEVER demanded press conferences.

So...........nothing will happen. They'll spin it as usual. Everything in Iraq is wonderful. They're having ELECTIONS in January. Baloney.

[Pallas180]

45. I'm not sure that exemption from World Court went through - can

you verify that with a link? google

I know that he was declared a "criminal" in Bruxelles, meaning he
could never go there for meetings -

ummmmmm - I still think there's another shoe to drop on mr. mission unacomplished.

[veracity]

53. article re no accountability...............

Not Accountable - Atrocities in Iraq and Our Withdrawal from the World Court

http://tvnewslies.org/html/not_accountable.html

[KamaAina]

44. Bush* to Annan: "Who cares what you think?"

Bill O'Really: "Shut up! Shut UP!! SHUT UP!!!"

Bush* again: "It's just a useless debating society."

the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter.

So, are they gonna impose sanctions on us? BWAHAHAHAHA!

[Pallas180]

46. Dont be so sure he's safe. The countries of the world are against him.

big shoe hanging....

[wuwei]

49. .. hit us in our wallets

"So, are they gonna impose sanctions on us? BWAHAHAHAHA!"

I sure hope so - hit us in our wallets its more effective than trying to bomb us since we are the only country allowed to proliferate weapons of mass destruction.

[Pallas180]

58. I dont get what you are saying

doesn''t make sense.

[G_j]

48. UN = "Irrelevant Debating Society"

anyone who cares about the lives of the Iraqi people and the lives of US troops = "Focus Group"

[Pallas180]

55. Will there be war criminal charges?

ihope, i hope, i hope

[AntiFascist]

51. They need to move the UN to Europe somewhere...

before planes are flown into that building.

[Pallas180]

56. yep,

[Dark]

52. Kick!

:kick:

[Cleita]

57. So when is the World Court

going to convene and press charges on the Bushistas for war crimes? Should we be concerned about the consequences if they do? I can think of about three that wouldn't be good for us as a superpower country. Our status as a superpower would be undermined. Our presidency, even though not part of this mafioso cabal would be subordinated to a world rule. We would have to become players in the world economy and it may not be as beneficial to us as we'd like. I dunno. We as a nation have been so greedy for so long that it only took one village idiot from Texas to expose all our weaknesses to the world.

[Pallas180]

59. hmmm-good thinking - but

"Our presidency, even though not part of this mafioso cabal would be subordinated to a world rule. " -

it already is subordinated to world rule - to G8 and we're deeply in debt to WTO and G8 who demand cuts in services to the people, which he's already done. They dictate who and what we can sell...and I suspect the export of our jobs has something to do with their orders.

" Our status as a superpower would be undermined"

Yep,

This is the fall of Rome - and Nero sits in the WH

[Cleita]

60. Nero was smarter. He fell on his sword when the time came.

* is still campaigning.

[Ms. Clio]

61. Well, Kofi, I guess we'll see what lessons have really been learnt

by the international community, as the U.S. begins beating the drums of war against Iran.

[Pallas180]

62. Is Nato completely made up of US arms, or do Germany & France

have planes, tanks, and so on???

[Ms. Clio]

63. Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking me, here?

[Pallas180]

64. Welllll. Let's say Kofi wants to bring the members of the cabal to trial -

with Milosevic the Us Army was a major part of Nato.

the US Army is not going to arrest bushit, (although they might)

so Germany and France, Poland?, Russia? many new countries are now in Nato.

Would they have the force, the power, to come to the US and for instance arrest bushit, cheney, rumsfeld...and take them away to the
Hague, let's say???

[Ms. Clio]

67. I don't think so--I'd think the U.S. military would still be more powerful

and that any attempt to do that would set off a world war that would dwarf all previous conflicts? Do you think that's a real possibility? Because oh, how I would love to see those war criminals tried, convicted, and sentenced to life in a prison like Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib.

[Pallas180]

68. Kofi said it was an illegal war. There have been war crimes. What does

that make dumbya? and the rest of them including Myers and Sanchez
and that General Miller with Abu Graib?

[Ms. Clio]

73. War criminals, certainly

But is there an international police force powerful enough to bring them to justice?

[Pallas180]

74. MEL- that;s what I'm wondering about.

http://img. photobucket.com/albums/v464/dsp/50_bush_resigns.jpg

[Ms. Clio]

75. I understand, Pallas! I hope we both live long enough

to see war crimes trials. Right now, I just can't see any international organization or alliance that is strong enough to pull that off. But who knows what the future holds?

I can't make your image work, although it sounds quite enticing?

[timefordrinking.com]

65. Maybe we should invade ourselves...

...we violated as many international laws as Iraq did!

[Pallas180]

69. Powell having a stroke. Says " Kofi's words not helpful at this time"

neither were Powell's lies at the time when he was the only voice
which was trusted and he sold out. That wasn't helpful to American
or Iraqi lives.

What a piece of carp.

[AntiFascist]

70. Powell ought to resign NOW.....

it might even help the Bush campaign.

[Pallas180]

71. No. He's the most upright in the cabal - And he cant run away, cause

if the dumbass is re-elected(gawd forbid) Powell's got to be around for pardon.....don;t forget, even the Iraqi Ambassador to the UN was
arrested by Bush..he had his own playing card...

that's funny - no one's ever heard of him again - where is he?

[Pallas180]

72. If the Iraq war is illegal, does that make all the arrests Bushco made

illegal???