"Andy Rooney wants CBS to 'fess up"

[Carson]

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/233064p-200044c.html


:wtf:

[demnan]

1. Oh this is so ridiculous

Where was the outrage when Novak outed Plume?

[Cocoa]

2. not surprising to me

if anyone stuck up for Rather, I wouldn't think it would be Rooney.

Same goes for Rather's competitors, and for Bob Schieffer.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gato Moteado]

4. how is it obvious that the memos are forged?

because the right wing press says so?

the memos are great for kerry. they're legit....make no mistake. what's bad for kerry is the corporate news trying to take the focus off the truth by smearing the memos the way they let the smear boat vets smear kerry.

the problem isn't with the memos. it's with the media. haven't you figured it out yet?

[Goldmund]

6. "It is patently obvious these memos are forgeries"

You must know something I don't. I don't think they're _not_ forgeries per se, but just because all of the networks are repeating it ad nauseum doesn't bring me any closer to thinking they're forgeries. What is so "patently obvious"? Share wit yer peeps so I know it too.

[johnfunk]

7. How exactly is it "patently obvious"?

Please explain and cite the specific proof that the two memos in question -- which are NOT germane to the overwhelming evidence that Bush failed to fulfill his military obligations and somehow got an undeserved honorable discharge -- are forgeries.

Or is it that Spacistor is just another avatar for one of the "register-and-burn" idiot right-wingers too scared to reveal who they really are?

[LowerManhattanite]

8. Exiled...to a town in Arizona...

named Tombstone. :)

[johnfunk]

9. Too late

Looks like "Spacistor" blew up good.

Yep, he blew up reeeeal good...

[MsUnderstood]

11. memos false, maybe. Information therein true, patently TRUE

If the data in the memos were false, someone would step up and say "George Bush did complete his service and here is proof"

Instead it is "CBS is full of scum sucking liars, so George Bush must be telling the truth"

Heck, if one doctor can remember treating Kerry's superficial wound in Vietnam (a warzone), Some Doc in Texas could remember telling the current president (at the time the son of an influential political family) "Turn and Cough", right?

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. Notice the asshole didn't ask

if the content was true. Did the chimp defy an ORDER from a commanding officer to take a physical? Did he show up in Alabama? Did he complete his service or is he AWOL?

Ask the questions Rooney. :grr:

[rocktivity]

10. 'Fess up yourself, Andy

Is this REALLY your professional journalistic opinion, or are you just helping helping Dan set things up for the kill? I mean, think of how much more effective Dan's Bush bombshell would be if the public were convinced that even his CBS co-workers were nervous!

:headbang:
rocknation

[skypilot]

13. Doesn't someone at CBS...

...have a can of Planters nuts to keep Rooney busy?

[TexasSissy]

12. Well, CBS SHOULD have checked out the documents beforehand,

or at least mentioned that there was an issue by some experts they consulted as to their authenticity.

The documents have not been proven to me to be either authentic OR fake at this point, so it's premature to skewer CBS or Rather. I give Rather the benefit of the doubt.

But the discussion shouldn't be there in the first place. IMO, CBS should've researched this better or been for forthright about the issue. But who knows, maybe CBS will have the last laugh. Maybe they have some authenticating proof waiting the wings, and those who questioned the authenticity will be embarrassed when it's all over.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

14. Interesting comment. Rather stated that this is a five-year....

...investigation fact-checked by four different lawyers.

Maybe you should have done your research before posting such blatant nonsense.

By the way, have you noticed the deafening silence from the NeoCons once they realized Burkett was involved? Gee...I wonder what that is?

[TexasSissy]

18. Yes, I heard that and have taken that into account. I stand by my

statement: The authenticity of the documents has not been proven OR disproven at this point.

What you have: several document experts who think they are either forgeries, or refuse to verify authenticity because of questions about the authenticity; Killian's secretary, who states unequivocably that those are not the documents she typed, but the substance is correct, as if someone saw the memos she typed and tried to recreate them; a doc. expert who verifies Killian's signature on one of the memos (or close...he would if he had the original; he doesn't verify signatures on copies).

What you don't have: any expert or person with direct knowledge stating that the documents are authentic.

There is a real question as to their authenticity. It doesn't mean they are forgeries. Just that there is a real question about it. If CBS had pointed this out when they aired the story, it would've diffused all this criticism after the fact, and the news stories would be more about the substance of the documents. But maybe CBS does have an authenticating source in the wings and hasn't released it yet. I am willing to give Dan Rather that benefit of the doubt because of his years in journalism and excellent reputation.

[wadestock]

29. I like this comment....

"There is a real question as to their authenticity. It doesn't mean they are forgeries. Just that there is a real question about it. If CBS had pointed this out when they aired the story, it would've diffused all this criticism after the fact, and the news stories would be more about the substance of the documents."

Yes theoretically true...but how could you possibly believe that when they aired this that there was any doubt.

Logically...the source had to somehow obviate this issue....

So the real issue in my mind is still the source....not anything that could be pointed to Rather....and I would tend to believe that either he was set up or else the source is in fact OK enough to make this story believable.

[rocktivity]

15. See post #4

:headbang:
rocknation

[TexasSissy]

19. There is no Post #4.

:-)

[rocktivity]

22. I meant this one

link

:headbang:
rocknation

[skypilot]

17. Ben Barnes looked pretty authentic.

For some reason this doesn't seem to be catching on--even here at DU.

Would everyone please try to remember that the main story that Rather tried to tell us on 60 Minutes was about Ben Barnes and how he pulled strings to get Bush into TANG. Ben Barnes seems to have been buried deep under these "authentic"/"fake" memos.

[TexasSissy]

20. Yes, that's part of my point. The SUBSTANCE is not being

argued, only the authenticity of the documents. The documents don't matter much to me, since there are other sources of their substance. CBS could've defrayed this onslaught of criticism by presenting the story like, "In addition to this and this, we also have obtained these documents....we need to inform you that our sources state these documents are authentic, but we have learned of several experts who question their authenticity. Notwithstanding that, we believe they are authentic, and we in fact have multiple sources of their substance.....etc etc."

[Zorra]

23. Here is an interesting article from FAIR that talks about this:

ACTION ALERT:
The Mysterious Case of the CBS Memos
September 16, 2004

If Burkett is the source of the documents, it's not certain that the memos are forged recreations and not originals. Dennis Adams, a Guard associate of Burkett's, told the New York Times (9/16/04) that Burkett told him of the document destruction, and that "some of the things in the trash were pulled out.'' Given that the documents have not yet been conclusively shown to have been created on a computer, it remains a possibility that they are originals salvaged by Burkett-- perhaps typed by someone other than Knox.
snip-----
On the other hand, CBS could have been legitimately reassured that some of the issues that the experts raised-- such as the use of superscript-- were not incompatible with documents of the era. An internal review of CBS's newsgathering on this story could help to clear up questions about the network's journalistic performance.

And even if CBS stands by its promise of confidentiality to the source who provided the memos, the network could do more to help other news outlets investigate the origins of the curious documents-- notably by releasing higher-quality scans that would facilitate analysis of their production. (USA Today, which reported having copies of the same documents, could also make high-quality electronic versions available.)
snip-----
The fact that someone was able to bring these charges to CBS, even though they no longer seem to exist in Bush's official records, lends at least some credence to the very serious charge that Bush's records have been sanitized. Whether or not CBS's journalistic standards will hold up under the scrutiny they will no doubt receive in coming days, it's clear that evidence of an official cover-up of Bush's service record is a more pressing story than whatever reportorial failings Dan Rather might be guilty of.

http://www.fair.org/activism/cbs-memos-knox.html

[TexasSissy]

27. That IS interesting. Like I say....it's not over yet.

It'll be interesting how it all turns out. And I hope CBS wins in the end. But the substance is verified by other sources, so the docs aren't really needed for that.

[LisaLynne]

16. I've loathed Andy

since he basically said, after Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain's suicide, that teens have no reason to kill themselves because their problems are so minuscule. I've never given the man a second thought since.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. and the original posters has NOTHING to say

Carson, I don't give a damn what Andy Rooney wants.

[Carson]

26. Cheswick

My only computer access right now is when I'm at work, therefore when I catch a few minutes of "free" time (and when THE BOSS isn't around), I log on to DU. I don't always have the time to follow-up on posts immediately.

Other than I think Rooney is a raving idiot, what more should I say?

[nodictators]

24. Forget andy rooney. Kitty Kelley gave us the answer!

The National Guard implemented random drug testing. Bush quickly hit the silk, and went to Alabama. and then to Harvard Business School.

When Bush was running for Gov, he said that he had done some things he wasn't proud of. He also said that he hadn't used cocaine or other illegal drugs since 1974 (as I recall the year).

Just connect the dots.

Notice: The next meeting of Cokehead Jet Jockeys will be in Jan. 2005.

[GoldenOldie]

25. Me thinks that CBS and Dan are biding their time

Dan Rather has been around long enough to understand the Bush's and the way they play the game. If he is considering retiring soon, this will be his last hurrah and wants to leave behind the biggest and best of his accomplishments.

[AngryAmish]

28. Rooney is an ugly Republican ass-licker

I have said my peace.

[noiretextatique]

30. QUESTION...for anyone

is there ANY credible evidence that the documents are forgeries, or is all the hoopla just a bunch of noise from the ususal suspecs...and their gullible friends?
it seems most of the nonsense about typewriters of the era have been debunked (very conclusively) right here on DU.

[pdx_prog]

31. and I want Andy boy

to shave them stinkin eyebrows!