For everyone still insisting the guard documents are authentic...

[republicansarewhores]

Especially those who have blown more hot air about their knowledge of typewriters rather than revealed what model actually produced the documents in question and attacked those of us willing to consider the possibility they were false-

As a progressive liberal, it makes me sad to see that the neocon whores aren't the ONLY ones drinking Kool-Aid.

Just because the document is forged doesn't diminish the fact Bush was AWOL, unfortunately it seems many here miss that point.

RAW


Rather Concedes Papers Are Suspect
CBS Anchor Urges Media to Focus On Bush Service

By Howard Kurtz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 16, 2004; Page A01

CBS anchor Dan Rather acknowledged for the first time yesterday that there are serious questions about the authenticity of the documents he used to question President Bush's National Guard record last week on "60 Minutes."

"If the documents are not what we were led to believe, I'd like to break that story," Rather said in an interview last night. "Any time I'm wrong, I want to be right out front and say, 'Folks, this is what went wrong and how it went wrong.' "

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24633-2004Sep15.html


CBS Guard Documents Traced to Tex. Kinko's
Records Reportedly Faxed From Abilene

By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 16, 2004; Page A06

Documents allegedly written by a deceased officer that raised questions about President Bush's service with the Texas Air National Guard bore markings showing they had been faxed to CBS News from a Kinko's copy shop in Abilene, Tex., according to another former Guard officer who was shown the records by the network.

The markings provide one piece of evidence suggesting a source for the documents, whose authenticity has been hotly disputed since CBS aired them in a "60 Minutes" broadcast Sept. 8. The network has declined to name the person who provided them, saying the source was confidential

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24635-2004Sep15.html

[bluestateguy]

1. If the corporate media repeats something enough, it must be true

:eyes:

[rfranklin]

2. Howard Kurtz's headline is suspect...

Rather reported that serious questions were raised about the memos. He did not "concede" that they were "suspect." Usually an editor writes the headlines, not the writer, but whoever did is shilling for the Republicans.

[MrBenchley]

3. Here's the key point....

From Atrios:

"Q Scott, on the National Guard documents on "60 Minutes," the First Lady says she believes these are forgeries. The RNC has accused the Democratic Party of being the source of these documents. Knowing then what you know now, would you still have released those documents when you did?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, that's a hypothetical question, John. We received those documents from a major news organization. We had every reason to believe that they were authentic at that time.
If the basic thrust of the memos was false - if, say, Bush came forward and said "Hey, wait a minute! Those can't be real! I never disobeyed a direct order..." then why would our dear Scotty say such a thing?
And, yes, trolls, if the documents are proven to be forgeries than Rather and CBS will have major egg on face, and they'll get their punishment like the Bush administration did when they fell for forged documents recently. And, yes, if they're proven to be forgeries, then whoever passed them to CBS, at least if they *knew* they were forged, should be outed.
But, none of that changes the fact that as Scotty said, they "had every reason to believe that they were authentic at that time.""

http://atrios.blogspot.com/

[T Town Jake]

6. NO, here's the "key point":...

...notwithstanding all of this "forgery/not-a-forgery" nonsense: the real bottom line is that John Kerry volunteered to serve in Vietnam and put himself in harm's way, while his opponent whiled away the lazy days in Texas playing Occasional Weekend Fighter Pilot.
...That is the truthful line that should be the constantly-repeated currency of the Kerry campaign. All this dibbling around about some disputed paperwork from 1972 among Democrats is simply nothing more than Karl Rove's throbbing wet-dream - and so far, sadly, many "so-called Democrats" (to coin a phrase) seem to be playing.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

4. Nice try, but sorry, no soup for you.

[Ganja Ninja]

5. Kurtz's headline is misleading.

Dan Rather didn't admit anything. Killian's secretary doesn't recall typing them but that doesn't prove they're false. They do fit nicely with other documents showing he was removed from flight duty for not taking a physical and that was absent from duty. I have no reason to believe the documents aren't real but your right. The focus should be on Bush. So lets end the speculation about whether or not the documents are real and assume they are.

[Disturbed]

7. Red Herring.

Two people that were in the office said that what was in those docs was true. We all know that GW Bush was a priveliged jerk off who checked the box, "No Overseas duty". He was a slacker, arrogan twit then and still is.

Where are the original hand written memos?

[allemand]

8. We should always welcome critical thinking and reasonable discussion,

because that is the only way to establish the truth. Sadly, not all seem to agree. Look for example at the "fan mail" Josh Marshall got:

"For a long time. TPM was even my home page. I thought you an honest and truthful guy. Boy was I wrong.

So how much are the dipshits paying you? Naturally I don't expect an answer.
Even if you did reply you'd kill the golden goose.

" (He quotes Marshall) <...>
There's a word, though, for these sorts of recreations, if that's what they are: forgeries."

Those grafs fail so many tests of integrity and journalistic ethics that I can only conclude they come straight from the WH or the RNC, not that it matters which.

You truly had me fooled Josh. I expect to see fulsome praise of the Pres in upcoming days for his valiant TANG service so all of us Americans can be as proud of him as he is and you are."
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_09_12.php#003480

This is simply insane.

There are still many questions regarding the memos and I think that only a scientific analysis will be able to establish when and how they were produced. (Such an investigation should at least be able to determine if those questions can be answered conclusively).

[wickywom]

9. Didn't the secretary say...

that they could have come from a different Army file?

What if they were planted to cover up an earlier crime -- the destruction of the
originals which were probably more damning -- Karl would be prepared to call them forgeries--
Anyway it goes he's cut his losses.

Maybe there should be an investigation--
Maybe he's counting on everyone running scared from the issue--

[thebigidea]

10. My only hope is that you never stop cutting and pasting

Because I didn't see those articles the first three dozen times.

[crickets]

11. Divide and conquer

and Rove cackles with glee.

I trust 60 Minutes. I don't think of myself as that old, but I remember when 60 Minutes was brand new. Trust me when I tell you its good reputation is hard earned. 60 Minutes has been pissing off people since DAY ONE, and they don't back down over it. They thrive on it by digging deep and being right.

Dan Rather isn't my favorite news man on the planet, but he has my respect and he obviously has the biggest pair of any of them to be found today. I applaud him.

I trust the secretary's words, and wait for more time to pass and information to come to light before making up my mind about these documents. Just because everyone else has decided to jump on the 24 hour news it's-old-after-two-days BS gravy train doesn't mean I have to. Do you? Just because someone says *yawn* does everyone else have to?

How progressive. Not.

I lived through Watergate - was I the only one who wanted it to all go away because it was so dry and tedious? It took months and bored the ever living shit out of me until the money shot when Nixon left. I had an excuse since I was a teenager and just. didn't. get. it. Until it was all over, of course.

Get over your faster than light selves.

[robcon]

12. I trust 60 Minutes, too.

But I have an open mind, and I think they were snookered, based on the evidence.

[Bdog]

13. The fact is the memos were not written with a word processor

They were written with a typewriter & when you consider what the witness have said & are saying...Thank you Dan for stating the obvious.

The Emperor wears no clothes.

[librechik]

14. I think Rather proved how utterly trustworthy he is

Others might have tried to suppress the secretary's viewpoint simply because it is so damaging to CBS (or can be made to damage them)

Rather bit the bullet and spread out the whole truth warts and all. I'm proud of him.

[Trajan]

15. Aint biting .....

There is no definitive evidence that these documents are NOT copies of original documents ....

Furthermore: they are consistent in style AND content with other documentation provided by various sources over the years vis a vis George W. Bush's military career ....

Wipe that purple stuff off yer face ....

[Corgigal]

16. who cares actually?

We as a nation need to have this conversation. It's years too late and should have been done when Bush was running the first time.

Does it matter? To me as a veteran this does matter. To some who never put their ass on the line probably not.

Everyone who was alive when Nam was going on knew how the rich got out of their service obligations. Nothing new there but do we now reward them for doing it? If Bush came clean about his guard record this wouldn't even be an issue but they build this man's past as a fantasy. I want real when selecting a president not a romance novel.

edit:spelling