Come Together: Plame

[H2O Man]

"Secrecy -- the first refuge of incompetents --must be at bare minimum in a democratic society, for a fully informed public is the basis of self-government. Those elected or appointed to positions of executive authority must recognize that government, in a democracy, cannot be wiser than the people." -- House Committee on Government Operations, 1960 Report; quoted in "Worse Than Watergate," by John W. Dean

We are in a time of national crisis. The economy is being damaged by high rates of unemployment. Oil prices continue to rise. Millions of children do not have medical insurance. One in four Americans lives close enough to a Superfund Site to have it adversely affect their health. And we are at war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

These are all symptoms of serious social difficulties. I am reminded of Erich Fromm's 1955 "The Sane Society," in which he builds upon a basic assumption that individuals within a society can experience mental health or mental illness, and establishes that societies also experience stability or mental illness.

DUers may be familiar with Fromm's other important works, which include "Man For Himself," an inquiry into the psychology of ethics; and "To Have or To Be," which questions societies' values. Paul Johannas Tillich, the German-born theologian "dismissed" by the Nazis, who went on to teach at Chicago, Harvard, and New York Universities, wrote that The Sane Society "is a combination of psychology and socio-analysis..."

Fromm had agreed with Freud's ideas of basic needs -- hunger, thirst, and sleep -- which "we share with the animals." And although he appreciated the need for healthy sexual experience, he did not focus as much attention on this subject as Freud. Rather, Fromm concentrated on "the passions" he believed essential for mental health: mature love and the need to attempt to answer the meaning of human existence.

When these two needs are not met, individuals will experience Axis 2 personality disorders. This increases the chances they will suffer from depression, deal with addiction issues, become trapped in cycles of domestic violence, engage in "high-risk" and self-injurious behaviors, and have higher rates of suicide.

In social work, families with increased rates of these behaviors are considered "dysfunctional." Although individuals within such a system may be stable, it is often in spite of the family, not because of it. It's also important to keep in mind that those people who suffer from Axis 2 disorders are not by definition "bad;" rather, they tend to be the victims of circumstances that they believe are beyond their control. In social work, the goal is to help them recognize that they are able to wake up, as it were, from the nightmares and take a healthy control of their life.

For a variety of reasons, the United States tends to lead all other nations in things like depression, addictions, domestic violence, and suicide rates. It is thus possible to say that our society suffers from mental illness. Not the Axis 1 illnesses such as schizophrenia or the affective disorders. Rather, from anxiety, depression, fear, addictions, and other features that tend to be found in families headed by a violent and threatening male. And people who have had the misfortune of living within such a family system, or who have served as social workers, know that one of the major forms of "control" used by abusive men is secrecy. That being said, it is perhaps no surprise that the president of this country is obsessed with secrecy.


"Terror is not a new weapon. Throughout history it has been used by those who could not prevail either by persuasion or example. But inevitably they fail, either because men are not afraid to die for a life worth living, or because the terrorists themselves come to realize that free men cannot be frightened by threats and that aggression would meet its own response." -- President John F. Kennedy; "The Thousand Days;"Citadel, 1964

Compare this to President Bush's saying that we may never win the war on terrorism. One conveys confidence in the American people. The other attempts to instill fear in the public. One reflects a healthy outlook; the other is fearfully unhealthy.

We certainly wish that John F. Kerry would sound a bit more like Kennedy. But we play a role in this American "family," too. We need to put a stop to George W. Bush's defining the world in terms of fear and hatred, using secrecy and control, to convince the public that only he can keep us safe. Later for that unhealthy business. The DU Plame Group needs to institute a new national mental health policy.

We know that President Bush is calling upon the darker impulses of American life. He has stirred up the levels of hatred and fear within our country, and he has increased the levels of hatred for and fear of America around the world. People around the world look at him the same as people look at the brutal father down the street who creates problems for everyone in the neighborhood.

I recently assisted a friend who is a state university professor working on a book that connects the violence that children suffer with the problems of the adult world. She is a gentle soul, looking for avenues to make sense of the concepts of "unearned suffering" and forgiveness. Of course, this is exactly what Fromm recognizes as the second passion. She interviewed my friend Rubin Carter, who spent 20 years in prison for a crime he did not commit.

Rubin said that this book "raises an intriguing question. Like pain is pain, suffering is suffering -- whether being wrongly imprisoned, wrongly placed in a concentration camp, or wrongly abused as a child. But pain is a component of suffering, but not suffering itself. There are no degrees of suffering."

Carter told my friend about the horrors he faced during the 20 years he served in the most hateful of all American institutions, the prison system. It is an environment where all of the people involved -- inmates and guards, guilty and innocent, good and bad -- become saturated from the atmosphere of fear and hatred. Rubin spent more than 10 of those 20 years in solitary confinement, and I remember him explaining to me that he was using it as "an opportunity to go on an anthropological expedition into the unnatural laboratory of the human spirit."

Those who have seen the movie about Rubin's case, "The Hurricane," will remember Denzel Washington delivering the classic line, "Hate put me in this prison, but love is going to bust me out." We again see Fromm's passions: mature love and making sense of the human experience. That must become the passion that we bring to this political season and beyond, in order to repair the damage to the American culture.

"Hate can only produce hate," Rubin told my friend. "That's why all these wars are going on, all this insanity. There's too much anger in the United States. People are too afraid, too numbed out. We need to wipe out this hatred, fear, distrust, and violence. We need to understand, forgive, and love. That's your salvation. Somehow, some way, you have to get over it."


"I remember sitting down to Christmas dinner eighteen years ago in a communal house in Portland, Oregon, with about twelve others my own age, all of whom had no place they wished to go home to. That house was my first discovery of harmony and community with fellow beings. This has been the experience of hundreds and thousands of men and women all over America since the end of WW2. Hence the talk about the growth of a 'new society.' But more, these gatherings have been people spending time with each other -- talking, delving, .... they know each other better than most Americans know their own family .... and it becomes possible to predict the emergence of groups who live by mutual illumination .... the meaning of sahajiya, 'born together' -- the name of the latest flower of the Tantric community tradition in Bengal." -- Gary Snyder, "Earth House Hold," 1968

For the past couple months, I have been focused on the Plame case on DU. I think that it offers a way to make sense of the national conditions that I believe are as violent and abusive as any that the most violent of heads of families subjected their families to in the decades I was a social worker. Other people have brought other equally important issues to the table, such as the Goss nomination, the spy scandal, and issues involving the potential voter disenfranchisement due to computer abuse.

We have seen in the past two days that our sick society has a difficult time talking honestly and openly about issues of national mental health. Look at the republican convention: rather than marvel at 500,000 peaceful demonstators exercising their constitutional rights, the news media tends to focus on the 50 people who may have violated the law while protesting.

I have commented before that deceit is the national news media's language, and confusion is their tongue. We need to be very careful then, when we approach the media through letters to the editor. And we need to use that same care when we lobby our elected officials. Yet we should not underestimate the power that 50-100 DUers can have in uniting to give voice to the truth. We have the ability to do significant good. I think that, as members of this dysfunctional family system, we should examine a couple people who were involved in Watergate.

The first is Martha Mitchell, the wife of Nixon's Attorney General. Martha came to believe her husband was being set-up to take the full responsibility for the Watergate crimes. And, for a time, he was. Martha began making a series of late-night phone calls to Bob Woodward and Carl Berstein; at first, they thought she was a valuable source. But within a couple of months, they saw that she was paranoid, unreliable, and untrustworthy.

Mitchell warned Nixon that she "was vociferous and had a tendency to over-dramatize." Nixon was actually fond of Martha, though he noted she "had a drinking problem and a mouth that can't be controlled." John Dean, in his 3-13-73 meeting with Nixon, stated, "You can make a person look like they're inaccurate even if they are trying to tell the truth." Martha did it to herself.

Looking back, we can see that Martha suffered from one of those personality disorders that Fromm associates with a sick society. In her case, it was a histrionic p.d.o., evidenced by her need to be the center of attention; her rapidly shifting and shallow emotions; her style of impressionistic , yet lacking in detail, speaking; and her suggestibility and theatrical behaviors.
Martha also had transient, stress-related paranoid ideation.

In one of the classic lines from the Watergate era, when John Mitchell was asked if he had anything to say after he was sentenced to prison, he replied, "It could have been worse. They could have sentenced me to spend the rest of my life with Martha Mitchell."

The opposite of Martha is John Dean. As a young attorney, he got caught up in a dysfunctional administration. He did some bad things. And he paid his dues. John Dean spent years focusing on Fromm's second passion. He found a greater meaning in his experience, and became determined to apply the lessons he learned for the benefit of the country he loves. Today, John Dean is one of the best friends that we have.

In his book, "Worse Than Watergate," Dean refers to the Bush White House's exposing the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame as " the dirtiest of dirty tricks." Dean exposes the president and vice president of being obsessed with secrecy, and abusing the power they reap from it. Those who have had the opportunity to hear John dean speak -- or who have taken advantage of the opportunity to read his book -- are always favorably impressed.. He's not theatrical. His presentation is not melodramatic. And none of the republican talking heads -- including Sean Hannity -- have accused him of being paranoid. Sean did say he felt Dean had betrayed the administration by writing such a detailed analysis of their behaviors. In family therapy, the brute always feels betrayed by the truth.


"And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you make."
-- Lennon / McCartney

The Plame Threads are about two months old. We have another two months until the election. We have already been through a lot, and have accomplished significant things. We have seen the Martha Mitchell potential discredits efforts to communicate the truth, and that the John Dean approach works the best. I was impressed by T.P.'s post #85 on our Imagine thread, quoting the Miami Herald's editorial: "Wilson ... never spoke above the modulated cadence of the career diplomat."

There are numerous pressing issues that we should be dealing with. Plame; the spy; Goss; voting protections. We could be writing a letter a day or more, and only touch the tip of the ice cube. And we have enough talented people that we can actually do that. We can begin posting a letter a day for DUers to send out, by snail-mail or e-mail. Letters to editors, to politicians, and more. I will start by posting a simple, but direct letter here tonight. Arby will help with addresses.

It also seems important that we work on efforts to reach groups that typically do not vote. There are within every dysfunctional people those who do not believe that they count. We need to reach out to them. I thank you for reading this, and look forward to your ideas of how we can move forward.

Sincerely,
Water Man

[No Mandate Here.]

1. Wouldn't it be delicious...

...if the indictments were handed down tomorrow?

Very well written, Water Man. Thank you.

[seemslikeadream]

2. Thanks Water Man

:hi:

[TacticalPeek]

3. Fine pic.

And another. Bad Day at Black Rock for the Powers That Be, coming.





A somber Attorney General John Mitchell and attorneys William Hundley and
Plato Cacheris return to the Hotel Washington after a day of hearings.

[H2O Man]

4. Suggested letter / part #1: Senators

If you e-mail this to your Senators, that is fine. Please consider snail-mail. Calimary suggested that you use one sheet of paper, fold it three times, put a small piece of tape on, them address it etc. This way is gets "cleared" through the mail quicker, as it is obviously a safe letter. Because the letter requests a letter in return, snail-mail is better. We want letters that document each senator's position, for our future media actions. All of them can be reached at the Senate Office Building, Washington, DC 20510.


Dear Senator ;

I am writing to express my concerns about the Israeli spy scandal. News reports on MSNBC connected this with the case where CIA employee Valerie Plame was exposed. I have also read that the Senate Intelligence Committee had agreed to delay hearings on this until after the November elections.

I am asking you to use your influence to have the Intelligence Committee investigate this as soon as possible. In cases involving national security issues, the Senate should not delay hearings for political reasons.

I look forward to hearing back from you on this issue.

Sincerely,

[H2O Man]

6. Letters / #2: Representatives

Please write to your representatives at the U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, DC, 20515. Again, e-mail is fine, but please consider snail-mail. Fold your letter into an envelope-size, use a small piece of tape, and address/stamp the outside to get the letter through quicker than in an envelope.

Dear Representative ;

I am writing to express my concerns about the Plame and the Israeli spy scandals. MSNBC News reported the cases are closely related. I know that Congressman Tom Harkin had earlier called for the House to investigate the leaking of the CIA operative's identity by White House officials.

Because these related cases involve national security, I believe that the House of Representatives needs to begin an investigation as soon as possible. I am hoping you will use your influence to see that this happens. I look forward to hearing back from you on this important issue.

Sincerely,

[Occulus]

131. I'd like to amend Calimary's suggestion, if I may

I work at a USPS processing and distribution plant. Please take me seriously on this, folks- if you simply fold up a piece of paper and address it, the chances are fairly good that the machinery we use could easily shred it out of hand. This is because ordinary paper is just way too flimsy to run through our machines unprotected.

I would suggest either actually putting it in an envelope, or marking "hand cancel" or "sort in manual letters" on it before you mail it. We do our best in that place, but can't really help what the machines eat. I always try to pick folded-paper mailings out of the mailstream because of this.

Please note: sending the letter to manual letters will cause a slight delay depending on how much manual mail your P&DC has that day. Soooo, I would suggest buying oneself a flat-rate envelope- one of those big envelopes you can put a piece of 8 1/2" x 11" paper into without folding it. The more professionally we present this, the more seriously it will be taken. You may even want to run the envelope through your printer to give it that extra touch of appearance.

Just trying to help. Please, take me seriously on the shredded mail issue. I've seen it happen waaaay too many times not to chip in about it. :)

[H2O Man]

137. Thank you.

It's important that we get information from people who know this system. We appreciate your suggestions.

[Tight_rope]

5. Kick

[kohodog]

7. Thanks for the letter outline H20, and another point

Your letter will be helpful if it is followed up on and sent out by others of us. I don't have time, but in reality I don't have time not to. The economic policies of this administration have many of us working extraordinarily hard to survive, and we must step back and see the forest through the trees. The most important thingf we can do is to be active in changing the direction of this country.

I saw a t-shirt in NY at Sunday's demonstration that read Kerry 04, going backwards less quickly. I agree with that, and at the same time will work hard to elect Kerry as we have to start somewhere. I want to think that he is not the lesser of two evils but rather the start of a new direction. If you turn a car going 90mph too fast it will roll over. So we need to have patience and begin with what is possible. But a change at the top won't mean we are done as the corporate influence may only be mitigated a bit. We will need to keep working hard if Kerry is elected.

If Bush wins again I really am at a loss as to what strategy should be followed.

Your final point is crucial and deserves it's own thread. While I am not in a swing state it doesn't mean that the get out the vote effort should be any less energetic. We need to bring people into the discussion and figure out how to engage people who feel that their voice can never be heard.

[coeur_de_lion]

8. Another literary success! Bravo!

Thanks H, for taking the trouble to help us sort out our feelings about what we see happening in this country. Similar things can happen I think in a small "community" like the Democratic Underground. We can't let fear and paranoia stop us from continuing to do good, take action, and to show by our outward behavior that we still believe in this country. It is too easy to pack it in and give up. That is what our fear mongering president would like for us to do.

Henri Frederic Amiel said, "There is no respect for others without humility in one's self."

I think you have shown us time and again, H2O, that you have a lot of respect for everyone on the DU board, and you have a great deal of humility in yourself.

I am of course properly thankful to have your guidance as we react to the news and try to predict the outcome of this investigation. I think we agreed in the last thread that we need to continue our efforts, hoping that good will ultimately come from our actions.

merci!

[coeur_de_lion]

9. MEDIA CONTACT LIST:

“MEET THE PRESS”: [e-mail]

MSNBC-Phone: [phone]

Opinions: mailto:[e-mail]

News: mailto:[e-mail]

Letters to the Editor: mailto:[e-mail]

MSNBC on the Internet
One Microsoft Way
Redmond, WA 98052
________________________________________________________________

CNN- (404) 827 – 1500
Comment line: (404) 827 - 0234
CNN NEWS CHIEF Eason Jordan. 404.827.5111. fax: [phone]. [e-mail]
CNN NEWS DIRECTOR Kim Bondy. 404 827 1500. fax. [phone]
CNN NEWSROOM 404.827.1500 . 404.827.1500. [e-mail]

CNN TV: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/cnntv

CNN.com: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/dotcom

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

Atlanta:
404-827-1500
Washington:
202-898-7900

MORE CNN:
You can communicate your thoughts to Kelli Arena personally at: [e-mail]
You can now send your emails to Eason Jordan at [e-mail] . He's CNN's chief news executive.
_________________________
[e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , miles.o'[e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail] , [e-mail],

MORE:
<[e-mail] > Newsweek
<[e-mail] > Keith Olbermann
<mailto:[e-mail] > Washington Post
<[e-mail] > MSNBC Main
<[e-mail] > Chris Matthews

And don’t forget the lovely and charming Brit Hume at the FAUX Network…

[e-mail]

888-369-4762

NOW with Bill Moyers Contacts:
Rick Byrne
Diane Domondon
Ph: 212.560.8406 Ph: 212.560.8300
Email: [e-mail] Email: [e-mail]

SOURCE NOW with Bill Moyers
Web Site: http://www.pbs.org/now


Al Franken, [e-mail] ,

Larry Flynt, [e-mail]

Michael Moore, [e-mail]

Los Angeles Times:
[e-mail]

Los Angeles Times
202 W. 1st St.
Los Angeles, CA 90012
[phone]

The Times Orange County
1375 Sunflower Avenue
Costa Mesa, CA 92626-1697
[phone]

Los Angeles Times
Valley Edition
20000 Prairie Street
Chatsworth, CA 91311
[phone]

Los Angeles Times
Ventura County Edition
93 S. Chestnut Street
Ventura, CA 93001
[phone]
_________________________________________________________________

New York Times:

PAUL KRUGMAN [e-mail]

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
E-mail to [e-mail] .

OP-ED/EDITORIAL
For information on Op-Ed submissions, call [phone] or send article to [e-mail] .
To write to the editorial page editor, send to [e-mail] .

NEWS DEPARTMENT
To send comments and suggestions (about news coverage only) or to report errors that call for correction, e-mail [e-mail] or leave a message at 1-888-NYT-NEWS.
The Editors
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

The Newsroom
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]
[e-mail] ; [e-mail]

PUBLIC EDITOR
To reach Daniel Okrent, who represents the readers, e-mail [e-mail] or call [phone]. from Eric J in MN

TO WRITE THE PUBLISHER OR PRESIDENT

Arthur Sulzberger Jr., Chairman & Publisher:
[e-mail] .

Janet L. Robinson, President & General Manager:
[e-mail] .
_________________________________________________________________

USA Today:

USA TODAY / USATODAY.com
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McLean, VA 22108-0605
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Washington Post:
1150 15th Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20071
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

Ombudsman’s office phone: (202) 334 - 7582 Monday through Friday 7a - 6p

(CBS) 60 Minutes:

ADDRESS:
60 Minutes
524 West 57th St.
New York, NY 10019

PHONE: [phone]

TRANSCRIPTS: 1-800-777-TEXT

[coeur_de_lion]

10. LEGISLATIVE CONTACTS:

WRITE YOUR REPRESENTATIVE:
CONGRESS:
Find your Senator (by state) on this page:
http://www.senate.gov

Alphabetical list of senators with email addresses:
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:
Type in your zip code and find your rep:
http://www.house.gov/writerep/

Congressional Black Caucus:
email links:
http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbcmember.htm
Snail mail link:
http://www.house.gov/cummings/cbc/cbc108.pdf

SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE:
Orrin G. Hatch (R) UT -- Chairman
Email:
Washington DC Office
104 Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
http://hatch.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Offices.Contact

Democratic members of the Senate Judiciary Committee:

Patrick J. Leahy (D) VT
Ranking Democratic member
433 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

Edward M. Kennedy (D) MA
317 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: kennedy.senate.gov/contact.html

Joseph R. Biden (D) DE
201 RUSSELL SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

Herbert Kohl (D) WI
330 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: kohl.senate.gov/gen_contact.html

Dianne Feinstein (D) CA
331 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: feinstein.senate.gov/email.html

Russell D. Feingold (D) WI
506 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

Charles E. Schumer (D) NY
313 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: schumer.senate.gov/webform.html

Richard J. Durbin (D) IL
332 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: durbin.senate.gov/sitepages/contact.htm

John Edwards (D) NC
225 DIRKSEN SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
[phone]
Web Form: edwards.senate.gov/contact.html

SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE:

JOHN D. (JAY) ROCKEFELLER IV (D-WV)
[e-mail]
531 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
202.224.6472

SENATOR CARL LEVIN (D-MI)
no email address available
WASHINGTON
269 Russell Office Building
U.S. Senate
Washington, DC 20510-2202
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]

Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
http://feinstein.senate.gov/email.html
Senator Dianne Feinstein
United States Senate
331 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

SENATOR RON WYDEN (D-OR)
http://wyden.senate.gov/contact/
516 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
202-224-5244

SENATOR DICK DURBIN (D-IL)
http://durbin.senate.gov/sitepages/contact.htm
Washington, DC
332 Dirksen Senate
Office Bldg.
Washington, DC 20510
[phone]
[phone] - fax

SENATOR EVAN BAYH (D-IN)
http://bayh.senate.gov/LegForm.htm
463 Russell Building
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
202) 224-5623

SENATOR JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC)
http://edwards.senate.gov/mailform.html
225 Dirksen Office Bldg.
Washington, DC 20510
[phone]
fax [phone]

SENATOR BARBARA MIKULSKI (D-MD)
http://mikulski.senate.gov/SenatorMikulski/mailform.html
Suite 709
Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
[phone]

The 9/11 COMMISSION:
New York Office
Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]

Family Liaison Office
Tel: [phone]
Toll-Free: 1-888-862-0556
Fax: [phone]
[e-mail]

Email addresses for 9/11 Commission members
James Thompson [e-mail]
Tim Roemer [e-mail]
John F. Lehman [e-mail] (not certain on this one)
Bob Kerry [e-mail]
Slade Gorton [e-mail]
Jamie Gorelick [e-mail]
Fred Fielding [e-mail]
Richard Ben-Veniste [e-mail]
Lee Hamilton – vice-chair [e-mail]
Thomas Kean – Chair [e-mail]


DNC
http://www.democrats.org/contact /

Pelosi's email and phone numbers
http://www.house.gov/pelosi /

Daschle's email and phone numbers
http://daschle.senate.gov/write.htm

House Energy Committee
http://www.house.gov/commerce_democrats/feedback.shtml

Senate Energy Committee Ranking Member Bingaman
[e-mail]

Contact your member of congress
http://www.house.gov/writerep /
http://www.vote-smart.org
It not only provides a directory of legislators (contact info) but provides extensive coverage of votes, speeches, etc...
A couple of other cool ones:

The MOST INCREDIBLY HONORABLE HENRY WAXMAN: http://www.henrywaxman.house.gov
In Washington, D.C.
2204 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (fax)
In Los Angeles
8436 West Third Street, Suite 600
Los Angeles, CA 90048
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (phone)
[phone] (fax)

Office of NYS Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Here's Eliot Spitzer's: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html

CONGRESSMAN CHARLES B. RANGEL (D-NY)
(no direct email address)
Washington D.C. Office
2354 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]
Fax at [phone]

TO CALL YOUR REPS, TOLL FREE!!!
1 (800) 839 - 5276 - TOLL FREE Capitol Hill Switchboard number!
OR, TRY (877) – 762 – 8762. It’ll get you there, too!
OR, there’s also 1-888-508-2974. This, too, gets you to the Capitol Hill Switchboard TOLL FREE. But sometimes it gets tied up.

[Me.]

11. "I Read The News Today"

Oh boy. About: Tonught while the pugs are wining and dining 25% of NYC's children will go to bed hungry tonight.

They MUST go. Write those letters.

Thanks H. And thanks Arbustchupa for the contacts.

[burrowowl]

12. KICK!

KICK!

[Oilwellian]

13. Thanks for a most excellent post

If it's ok with you, I'd like to send it out to my email groups. I live by the saying, "what you throw into the ethers is what comes back down on you." What you're saying is similar...if you live with fear, that is the energy you will surround yourself with. Thank you for steering us towards a healthier light. :D

[mountebank]

14. Fromm meets Plame - finally! I'm writing.....

I have been meaning to start a thread about Erich Fromm for ages. Like the letters, I haven't quite gotten around to it. For the letters at least, the wait ends tonight. Dianne Feinstein, especially, will be hearing from me. In addition to writing about Plame, I am using that first quote about secrecy in a democratic society to criticize her (yet again - I've sent her two others since just before the Iraq invasion) on using secret Senate Intelligence Committee information as her reason for over-ruling the advice of her constituency who flooded her office with requests to vote down the IWR. She has blood on her hands, and she shouldn't be allowed to forget it.

Back to Fromm. The best books for me are the ones that you agree with before you ever read them - they articulate your world-view in a way you never have and maybe never would. That's Fromm. Constrast that with Freud, whose ideas seem sort of reasonable after you've read them a few times and intellectualized a great deal. Still, Freud's ideas just never affected me; they are an internally coherent set of theories that don't make intuitive sense. Freud hits in the head where Fromm hits in the heart and the head. His theories about society, love, and the search for meaning are intellectually rigorous and ultimately intuitive.

[H2O Man]

17. When I was in highschool

a teacher suggested that I read A.S. Neill's "Summerhill." Fromm had authored by introduction to the book. That was 30 years ago, and I still think that is one of the most important pieces I've ever read. It's interesting how a good book/article can change the way you see the world.

After college, I found few employment options. I began working in a factory on 3rd shift. I read the 3 Fromm books I mentioned while I was working in the factory, and decided that even though it would require my taking a significant pay cut, I got a job in human services. I think his books played a big role in my making that decision.

[TacticalPeek]

15. Conyers calls for investigation.

Congress Must Investigate Spy Scandal

by Rep. John Conyers


I write to ask that the Judiciary Committee commence an immediate full investigation and examine substantial and credible evidence that Pentagon officials have engaged in criminal wrongdoing in their handling of classified material and have engaged in unauthorized covert activities.

Press reports have recently disclosed that the Federal Bureau of Investigation is currently examining whether a Pentagon analyst, Larry Franklin, illegally passed along a classified document involving the policy of the United States toward Iran. It is not yet known whether Mr. Franklin was acting on his own, or whether he was acting at the behest of his superiors. The fact that a rogue element of the United States government may have been working with a foreign government in possible contravention of current foreign policy is a grave matter that should be of concern to every American.

Unfortunately, based on media accounts, it now appears that these allegations may be only the tip of the iceberg of a broader effort of Pentagon employees working in the office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, Douglas Feith, to conduct unauthorized covert activities, without the knowledge of the Central Intelligence Agency. According to press accounts, it also appears that these activities may have involved other disclosures of classified information to foreign governments (1) and the falsification of documents.(2) In addition, these activities may well constitute criminal misappropriation of federal funds.(3) All of these allegations, if true, involve potential violations of federal criminal law and are, therefore, within the jurisdiction of the Judiciary Committee.

To fully investigate these allegations, I would suggest that the Committee examine the following questions:

(1) Did Pentagon officials illegally give classified information to members of the Iraqi National Congress or to discredited Iraqi exile Ahmed Chalabi? Were White House officials, including officials in the Office of the Vice President, aware of such activities? Did Mr. Chalabi then pass along such materials, including information that the United States had broken Iran's communications codes, to Iran?

(2) Did Pentagon officials illegally obtain and disseminate false intelligence information to further the (now discredited) assertion that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction? Were Pentagon officials either the conduits for or originators of documents claiming Iraq had made efforts to acquire such records, including fraudulent documents claiming Iraq had attempted to buy weapons grade uranium from Niger? Were White House officials, including officials in the Office of the Vice President, aware of such activities? What role (if any) did officials in the NSC, including Elliott Abrams, have in these actions?

(3) Did Pentagon officials conduct illegal and unauthorized meetings with foreign nationals, including Iranian and Syrian nationals, to plan or direct covert activities against foreign governments? Did Pentagon officials provide monetary or other assistance to such foreign nationals, including a known arms dealer, Manucher Ghorbanifar? Did such meetings involve any foreign intelligence officials, including the head of Italian military intelligence (SISMI), or other foreign military officials? What role (if any) did officials in the NSC, including Elliott Abrams, have in these actions?

(4) Did Pentagon officials obtain information about the covert status of Central Intelligence Agency operative Valerie Plame? Was such information obtained illegally? Was such information illegally shared with White House officials, including officials in the Office of the Vice President?

While I am fully cognizant that many of these activities may be the subject of an ongoing criminal investigation, there is ample precedent that such an investigation does not preclude, and will not be interfered with as a result of, a concurrent congressional investigation. Recently, when allegations were made about the mishandling of classified information in the National Archives by a former Clinton administration official, you and other Committee chairmen affirmed this principle.

I urge you to treat this request with the utmost importance. These matters may well constitute the greatest subversion of our democracy and compromising of our national security since the Iran-Contra affair. It is of paramount importance that our committee begin work on this matter immediately.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/conyers.php?articleid=3488


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x795496


(my bold)

[H2O Man]

18. This is valuable information .....

and gives us a representative to write letters of support to.

[Me.]

24. Not Spy Related

But if you're of a mind please go to this site and click once a day to help fed those who need it. Thanks.

http://www.thehungersite.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/CTDSites

ps. letters written for today. Who else?

[TacticalPeek]

45. Rep. Conyers calls for replacement of prosecuter in case (McNulty)

snip

Also yesterday, the ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee demanded that a new prosecutor be assigned to investigate the alleged leaks, questioning the "political leanings" of the U.S. attorney in Alexandria who is handling the criminal portion of the case.

In a letter to Attorney General John D. Ashcroft, Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) said the role of U.S. Attorney Paul J. McNulty in the case has "obvious political implications" in an election year, and Conyers cited anonymous allegations in a news report that McNulty had "put the brakes on" the probe.

"While I have no reason to question Mr. McNulty's integrity, he is not a career prosecutor, but instead is a political appointee whose previous employment was principally with Republican politicians," Conyers wrote.

Conyers suggested that either a special counsel or U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald of Chicago, who is overseeing a separate probe into the disclosure of CIA operative Valerie Plame, should take over the Pentagon probe.

Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo declined to comment on the specifics of Conyers's allegations. "We will review the congressman's letter and give it the attention it is due," Corallo said. A spokesman for McNulty also declined comment, referring a reporter to Corallo's statement.

snip

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A60497-2004Sep3?language=printer


Interesting article.

Interesting pace.

:evilgrin:

[Beam Me Up]

16. California near midnight kick

:kick:

want this to go around a few times

[TacticalPeek]

19. If it's Tuesday, it must be - which investigation?

News

Affair May Slow Push for Regime Change in Tehran

By MARC PERELMAN
September 3, 2004

snip

The Boston Globe reported Tuesday that a third investigation, this one in a preliminary stage and conducted by the House Judiciary Committee, is looking into whether another former official in Feith's office, Michael Maloof, was involved in unauthorized back-channel talks aimed at destabilizing Syria.

Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst and a forceful critic of what he maintains was the administration's manipulation of intelligence on Iraq, offered an alternative view.

He claimed that the Franklin affair derived from the investigation into which administration officials unlawfully "outed" CIA operative Valerie Plame by disclosing her identity to Washington Post columnist Robert Novak. The leak allegedly was orchestrated to retaliate against Plame's husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, after he undermined a key administration argument about Iraq's efforts to buy enriched uranium in Africa.

"I think there are several grand jury investigations going on in the Plame investigation, and one of them is focusing on the activities of the neocons at the Pentagon and in the vice president's office," Johnson said. Investigators, he added, were exploring the possibility that forged documents showing Iraqi nuclear procurement activities in Africa could have originated in Israel.

David Saranga, an Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman, said he "had never heard about such an allegation."

snip (let those with ears, hear)
http://www.forward.com/main/article.php?ref=perelman20040901931

[H2O Man]

21. Good post!

I like that: "let those with ears, hear"!!!

[Me.]

23. Great Stuff Tactical Peak

I love the sound of "several grand juries"

[TacticalPeek]

30. Thanks, y'all. And here's another reporter on the "Whole Ball of Wax".

Posted on Thu, Sep. 02, 2004

Alleged Pentagon leaks may be connected to Iran policy

By WARREN P. STROBEL

Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - Pentagon civilians in the office in which analyst Larry A. Franklin worked lobbied for a hawkish policy toward Iran and tried to have those views inserted into a highly classified presidential document that's a focus of an FBI espionage investigation, current and former U.S. officials said.

snip

Several U.S. officials and law enforcement sources said Thursday that the scope of the FBI probe of Pentagon intelligence activities appeared to go well beyond the Franklin matter.

FBI agents have briefed top White House, Pentagon and State Department officials on the probe in recent days. Based on those briefings, officials said, the bureau appears to be looking into other controversies that have roiled the Bush administration, some of which also touch Feith's office.

They include how the Iraqi National Congress, a former exile group backed by the Pentagon, allegedly received highly classified U.S. intelligence on Iran; the leaking of the name of CIA officer Valerie Plame to reporters; and the production of bogus documents suggesting that Iraq tried to buy uranium for nuclear weapons from the African country of Niger. Bush repeated the Niger claim in making the case for war against Iraq.

"The whole ball of wax" was how one U.S. official privy to the briefings described the inquiry.

more
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/news/politics/9566768.htm


There is a gathering sense that the gods have turned on bushco.

[calimary]

41. "There is a gathering sense that the gods have turned on bushco."

God, I hope so. I was wondering not long ago whether at some point in his life bush actually made some sort of deal with the Devil. NOTHING goes THIS well for anybody THIS evil, unless...

I thought that about Reagan, too. He seemed to get his way on just about EVERYTHING, whether it was good or not. And more often than not, it WASN'T that good.

[slojim240]

20. Message: "Don't F*** with the CIA.

Especially when your dad is NOT in charge.

[H2O Man]

22. It must be a disappointment

for the elder Bush to see this happening. I'm not in favor of his politics at all, but there is a significant difference between the father and son. I saw the father on Imus yesterday, and he said he refuses to say publicly when he disagrees with his son, because of the news media. But it was clear he knows the Iraq policy is wrong. And he had been very impressed with Ambassador Wilson, as Wilson's book shows. Add to that his strong feelings about exposing intel agent's identities. He must be frustrated at the neocons' stupidity.

[Me.]

26. Will They Pay?

>>Snip>>> "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - FBI agents copied the computer hard drive of a senior official at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee in their investigation of a Pentagon analyst suspected of turning over classified information to Israel, people familiar with the matter said.

n the interviews, federal agents asked the AIPAC officials about their contacts with the Pentagon analyst. The FBI also copied one of their computer hard drives and AIPAC provided investigators with some documents, the sources said on Wednesday.

But some of the lawmakers briefed on the FBI's case have reacted skeptically to the evidence presented thus far, congressional aides said.
These aides said they doubted the investigation would reach the level of espionage, and would more likely result in lesser charges, if any. <<<snip>>>

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6136637

[Me.]

27. They Must Pay !

Spy Scandal's Roots are Deep

by Juan Cole

published by Informed Comment

Spy Scandal's Roots are Deep


<<<snip>>> "Jim Lobe argues that the FBI investigation that caught up Pentagon Iran expert Lawrence Franklin is much wider than initially thought, and focuses on the unauthorized transfer to Israel of highly sophisticated military software and designs. Since many Israeli arms merchants connected to the government in Tel Aviv sell to the black market, some of this military technology has ended up in the hands of countries that have poor relations with the US, and some may have ultimately been resold to al-Qaeda.

By the way, I personally do not expect any dramatic developments from all these investigations. AIPAC has powerful protectors on Capitol Hill, and past charges that it was involved in espionage for Israel have always been buried. As for the Neocon cult in the Pentagon, even if they did something illegal, they will not suffer much because of it. Look at where the Iran-Contra criminals are, who subverted the US Constitution and stole arms from the Pentagon to sell illegally to Khomeini. One Iran-Contra figure, who lied to Congress, now serves in the National Security Council as the person in charge of the Israeli-Palestine issue. That is Elliot Abrams, who was pardoned by Bush the elder and now sets White House policy on among the more important issues affecting US relations with the Muslim world. Bush may as well have just appointed Ariel Sharon to advise him on how to deal with Ariel Sharon (though to be fair, Sharon is probably more pragmatic than and to the left of Abrams)." <<<snip>>>>

http://progressivetrail.org/articles/040902Cole.shtml

[Me.]

28. Bastardos !

From Justin Raimondo

Ashcroft Nixes Arrests in Israeli Spy Probe
by Matthew Barganier

The neoconservative New York Sun is reporting that Attorney General John Ashcroft halted arrests in the Israeli spy case last Friday. From the Sun:

"According to sources familiar with the investigation, the U.S. district attorney in charge of the probe, Paul McNulty, has ordered the FBI not to move forward with arrests that they were prepared to make last Friday when the story broke on CNN and CBS. 'He put the brakes on it in order to look at it,' a source familiar with the investigation told the Sun. 'To see what was there. Basically the FBI wanted to start making arrests and McNulty said "Woa, based on what? Let's look at this before you do anything."' . . . <<<snip>>>

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=3489

[Wind Dancer]

25. Thanks, H20, for another inspirational post!

This thread has a wealth of information and we must continue to educate the people who refuse to believe our government could commit such atrocities. The media has successfully brainwashed half of the country, if not more.

The only way to combat the beast is to constantly challenge them through our grassroots efforts by letter writing, talking to people, and demanding more from our elected officials and journalists. Thanks for the great sample letters - we can and must make a difference, our entire democracy depends on it.

Remember Seymour Hersh is a great source and has a new book coming out in September.

[H2O Man]

29. Thanks.

People can campaign against Bush every time they are at the gas station. Help potential Kerry voters connect Bush policies with gas prices.

[TacticalPeek]

31. Further jockeying from the press gallery.

18 News Groups Push for Confidentiality


Thursday September 2, 2004 9:31 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) - Journalists need protection from having to reveal confidential sources if they are to keep the public informed, media organizations argued in a newly unsealed court filing.

U.S. District Judge Thomas F. Hogan agreed to the release of the papers, filed last week in the case of reporters from The New York Times and The Washington Post, who called to testify before a grand jury investigating the leak of the identity of a covert CIA officer.

snip

The news groups said they wanted the new arguments considered as Hogan took up the case of Judith Miller of The New York Times and Walter Pincus of The Washington Post, possibly on Friday.

more
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4469827,00.html

[Me.]

35. What is Encouraging

is that people in other countries have their eyes on this matter also.

[H2O Man]

32. Good Morning, Good Morning

FBI Copies Computer Hard Drive in Israel Probe (Reuters)

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6136637

found at news at google for Plame

[H2O Man]

33. Good news

Affair May Slow Push for Regime Change by Marc Perelman

http://forward.com/main/article.php?ref=perelman20040901931


found at news at google for Plame

[H2O Man]

34. More at:

US Officials say analyst's colleagues proposed hawkish policy for Iran, by Warren Stobel. See:

http://www,mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/9571460.htm?1c

[Me.]

36. "Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi"

Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi

By Robin Wright and Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 3, 2004; Page A01

>>>snip>>>>"FBI counterintelligence agents are investigating whether several Pentagon officials leaked classified information to Iraqi politician Ahmed Chalabi and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, according to a law enforcement official and other people familiar with the case.

Senior White House officials, including national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and her deputy, Stephen J. Hadley, have been apprised that Chalabi is part of the investigation, according to a senior U.S. official. The inquiry is part of the larger counterintelligence probe that was disclosed last week -- the scope of which is not yet clear." <<snip>>>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A57595-2004Sep2?language=printer

[TacticalPeek]

43. Expert on US Israeli relations reveals details of his recent FBI visit.

Mole Hunt

An expert on U.S./Israeli relations reveals details from his recent visit with the FBI.

By Jason Vest and Laura Rozen
Web Exclusive: 09.03.04


snip

And so on June 22, Green found himself sitting across an oval-shaped conference table from two FBI agents at an undisclosed northern Virginia venue. The meeting lasted nearly four hours.

"They were extraordinarily well-informed; it was apparent they've been at this for awhile," Green says. "I asked them if there was a current reason for them asking questions about things that go back over 30 years, and they sort of looked at each other and said, 'Yes, it's a present issue,' but wouldn't say specifically what. Though they did ask very specific questions about one individual in particular."

Green said the agents asked about several current or former Pentagon officials such as Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Michael Ledeen, and Stephen Bryen.

"The tenor of their questions was such that it defined where these people were in terms of the nature of their focus," Green says. "They also asked about a couple other Office of Special Plans people, including Harold Rhode. Ironically, about the only name that didn't come up was Larry Franklin."

more
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8467

[Me.]

44. Geez, the Place is Riddled with Them

What I want to know is: Can they be stopped? Has the Israeli lobby become so powerful that they can get this buried? How long can we expect this investigation go on?

[coeur_de_lion]

46. VERY interesting article. Thanks for posting this Tactical Peak! n/t

[Gloria]

37. Thanks for this essay....if I may suggest a companion book

to Dean's Worse than Watergate, which so succintly presents the issues of concern, mostly on the domestic front, stemming from the secrecy of this Administration.

I would heartily recommend Rashid Khaladi's "Resurrecting Empire" which outlines the actions of this bunch on the foreign policy front. He has about a 5 page outline of the PNAC plan that is so simple and direct and understandable it is unbelievable. He bases all this on history and it becomes very clear that we are on the path to self-destruction with this crew..

Worse than Watergate and Resurrecting Empire...two small books that paint the whole picture.

[H2O Man]

38. Sounds like a good book.....

and I will be near a good book store tomorrow. Thanks.


Although he's an odd fellow, Patrick Buchanan's "A Republic, Not An Empire" does a great job of documenting the historic error that the government is making. It is primarily a road the neocons are dragging our country down; however, many democrats are responsible -- for doing nothing to stop the trend, if nothing else.

[kohodog]

40. Sy Hersh's new book is coming out in a few weeks and could be explosive.

A lot on Abu Garib, but his work is usually extremely well documented.

[H2O Man]

39. Letter #3 : to the editor of your local paper(s)

Here is a suggested letter-to-the-editor of your local newspaper(s)

Dear Editor:

I want to express my concern with the scandals with the neocons in the Bush Administration. Last summer, two high-ranking officials from the Vice President's offices exposed a CIA operative's identity. A federal grand jury is investigating this.

Now we learn the FBI is investigating another related scandal. It appears that this same group passed secret documents to foreign interests. It was reported on MSNBC on 8-27 that the cases are closely related.

The same group that apparently forged the "Niger yellow cake documents" to justify the invasion of Iraq seems intent on spreading the war into Iran. I think the American public needs to know the truth about what they are doing before the November election. After all, when we go in that voting booth, we will be deciding if we will be sending our communities' young men to fight and die in the Middle East.

I urge your paper to take an editorial stance on these issues. Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

[NewJeffCT]

70. I'm not as informed as everybody else here

And, I was away on business last week and still catching up mentally from my trip to Freeperville...

but, should we also add in the outing of the guy that had infiltrated Al Qaeda to justify that terror alert (Mohammed Khan was it?)

[H2O Man]

75. I think the terror alerts

are an important issue.

[wicket]

42. kick!

[Me.]

47. Kick!

[TacticalPeek]

48. Amb. Wilson on c-span2, with an interesting panel.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2310321

[Me.]

49. It was a Very Interesting Discussion

And when it came to a question of how to stop the pugs, Paul Krugman said one thing that would do it is the scandals which are piling up, like Plame.

[H2O Man]

50. This was an intense program!

Wilson spoke more openly than perhaps expected about his previous experience investigating possible WMD transactions in 1999. The S.I.C.R. had mentioned it, of course, or he would not have. He seemed especially confident when he mentioned Pat F. and the questioning of Rove, Cheney, and Bush.

I know that some people have questioned if this would ever come to the surface. I think it will. Pretty soon.

[Me.]

51. I Know It Will

And it will only be the tip of the iceberg. It was great to see Wilson so confident. If he feels that way so should we. I also thought the crowd gave him a terrific reception. Even better, they knew what he was talking about.

[kohodog]

52. Check out this thread, It's all coming together!

Maybe it is coming from all directions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x801678

This is from a post within the thread.

By Robin Wright and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, September 4, 2004; Page A04


FBI counterintelligence investigators have in recent weeks questioned current and former U.S. officials about whether a small group of Iran specialists at the Pentagon and in Vice President Cheney's office may have been involved in passing classified information to an Iraqi politician or a U.S. lobbying group allied with Israel, according to sources familiar with or involved in the case.

In their interviews, the FBI agents have also named two Israeli diplomats stationed in Washington and asked whether they would be willing recipients of sensitive intelligence, the sources added.

The investigators have asked questions about personnel in the office of Pentagon Undersecretary for Policy Douglas J. Feith as well as members of the influential Defense Policy Board, an advisory panel for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, according to former U.S. officials who have been questioned and others familiar with the case.

Investigators have specifically asked about a group of neoconservatives involved in defense issues, including Feith, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz, Iraq and Iran specialist Harold Rhode and others at the Pentagon. FBI agents also have asked current and former officials about Richard Perle of the defense board and David Wurmser, an Iran specialist and principal deputy assistant for national security affairs in Cheney's office, according to sources familiar with or involved in the case.

much more>

[TacticalPeek]

54. Wilson's close:

(about the administration disclosing his wife's identity)


Now, that is unamerican, it is undemocratic, it is inconsistent with the social contract bequeathed to us by our Founding Fathers, who said at the very beginning: we must have a healthy suspicion of the power of the executive branch, hence we will create coequal branches of government and we will endow the press, and we will endow the citizenry with absolute freedoms, and responsibilities, essentially to hold the government to account, and that's what we must do.

As I've been traveling around the country over the past several months, a couple of terms keep coming up - one is the whiff of fascism, generally from people who grew up in central Europe in the thirties, who tell me "Beware. You will not know it has happened until it is too late."

And secondly - secondly is a reference to the McCarthy era, for people who grew up a little bit later. Now the good news about America is that we have a long history of resisting this type of, the pendulum swinging this far in one direction. We have resisted before, and we must continue to resist. It is in the nature of our social contract to do so. It is time for somebody to stand up and say, "Have you no shame?".


------

Any typo's are mine, and I left out the applause :).

[veracity]

53. Fromm also understood the fear of freedom...

I did a paper many years ago on Eric Fromm's "Escape from Freedom" - which is very relevant today, when you look at the large numbers of people willing to put their freedom in the hands of the Bush ilk of fascists as the people of Germany did in the thirties. Fromm's premise was that a basic instinct in people causes them to actually fear freedom....to fear the responsibility and consequences of making decisions on their own. In times of what they perceive to be crises, these same people find comfort in those who promise to keep them safe and to take care of their needs by assuming more and more power unto themselves. Sound familiar?

We're in really deep trouble, folks. And I'm very nervous about the prospect of what looms ahead.

[H2O Man]

56. Escape From Freedom......

is one of the many books that I have loaned to a friend, and need to replace. It has a wonderful discussion on the the relationship between overt authority and anonymous authority. Fromm was great at tying these to the development of industrial society. Overt authority tells you in a very direct way that you will be punished severely for certain actions. Anonymous authority uses a kinder, gentler way to coerce by using the herd instinct ..... "Isn't it better that we all willingly give up our constitutional rights, so that President Bush can protect them through the Patriot Act? Don't you want to be patriotic, like all good Americans?" Yes, yes .... we see that today.

In his preface to Summerhill, Frommm wrote:"The change from the overt authority of the 19th century to the anonymous authority of the 20th was determined by the organizational needs of our modern industrial society. The concentration of capital led to the formation of giant enterprises managed by hierachically organized bureaucracies. Large conglomerations of workers and clerks work together, each individual a part of a vast organized production machine, which in order to run at all, must run smoothly and without interruption. The individual worker becomes merely a cog in the machine. In such a production organization, the individual is managed and manipulated.

"And in the sphere of consumption (in which the individual allegedly expresses his free choice) he is likewise managed and manipulated. Whether it be the consumption of food, clothing, liquor, cigarettes, movies or television programs, a powerful suggestion apparatus is at work with two purposes: first, to constantly increase the individual's appetite for new commodities; and secondly, to direct these appetites into channels most profitable for industry. Man is transformed into the consumer, the eternal suckling, whose one wish is to consume more and 'better' things."

Reminds me of one of my favorite Gandhi quotes: "It is beneath human dignity to lose one's individuality and become a mere cog in the machine."

[H2O Man]

57. Today's news .....

Interesting article on the FBI inquiry targeting specialist on Iran.
See:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/9587625.htm?1c

article by Robin Wright & Dan Eggen found thru news at google (Plame)

[H2O Man]

58. "Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak"

Newsweek article by Mark Hosenball & Michael Isikoff. It does NOT look good for this administration when this business hits the news at the same time as they want a lift from their convention. This will let the air right out of their tires!

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5916041/site/newsweek/

[H2O Man]

59. "A Web of Intrigue: Inside the Israel Espionage Investigation"

Oh, dear, this is going to hurt the reputation of the Bush administration. Does NOT look good. Scandals are starting to stick! Old Larry Franklin has been making "pretext calls" scripted by the FBI. Move over Amber Frye! The "leaking" of the information appears to have been a White House move to compromise the FBI investigation. Bad move. See:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040913-692835,00.html

this and about 170 other articles from across the country can be found at the news at google (Plame). Uhm-uhm. Americans are reading about what a bunch of treacherous traitors these neocons are.

[Me.]

60. Eye of Newt was on MTP this morning

Saying how Chalabi was innocent and how this is all politically motivated, blah, blah blah. Buchanan and Sen. Graham were on to refute but I really wish both had been more aggressive and slapped him down. However, steam must be starting up the spout as they have him out trying to head things off at the pass. What I also wish, is that *ush had a habit of firecrackering newts instead of frogs.

Also, does anyone have an idea if the new Kitty Kelly book will be in any way effective against *ushco? To be honest, I've never read her books and have dismissed them in the past, even though I know they are well researched. But she has so many unsavory tales to tell about that family, I'm hoping the book will have an impact. Any port in a storm.

[H2O Man]

62. Newt was amazing......

calling for congressional investigations of the FBI and CIA for investigating the neocons. Tighten your seat belt, Newt, the rides just about to begin.

[Me.]

63. Reassure Us H.

That a gathering storm looms neigh.

[H2O Man]

64. Red sky

"When it is evening, you say, 'It will be fair weather, because the sky is red.' And in the morning, 'It will be foul weather today, because the sky is red and glowing.' Matthew 16:2

Democrats and neocon/republicans live on opposite sides of the globe. The sky looks pretty red for democrats tonight. Half-way around the globe, the republicans are waking up to a storm.

Yep. Reminds me of Isaiah 30:15, "By waiting and calm you find victory. In quiet trust your strength lies."

Wilson would not have said a few things on Monday if he were not sure of himself. He is one of the most intelligent (and honest) people in public life. Little things like speaking of his previous work on WMD components in Africa in the late 1990s, and comments about the president, VP, and Rove's involvement in an effort to marginalize the investigation.... things look very good.

[Me.]

65. Thank You

I do know this is so, but it never fails to uplift when you say it.

[H2O Man]

66. Well, thank you!

You are kind.

This entire episode is one of the ugliest chapters in our recent history. More, our nation can not afford it. We can not afford the stupidity, the blinding greed, and the lust for power that has motivated the neocons.

"But let justice flow like a river, and mercy like an unfailing stream." Amos 5:24

[burrowowl]

55. Is Senator Graham

going to release the 27 pages missing from the Official 9/11 Report? And will this add more straws to the camel's back?

[Me.]

61. Now This s What Kerry Should Be Doing

From over at DU:

Kerry If investigation blocked by FBI-White House -massive abuse of power

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2313548#2313662

[Me.]

67. The Franklin Story Has Made It's Way To Aol

Looks like it is going mainstream now.


Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon
By JAMES RISEN and DAVID JOHNSTON

Published: September 6, 2004

"WASHINGTON, Sept. 5 - It began like most national security investigations, with a squad of Federal Bureau of Investigation agents surreptitiously tailing two men, noting where they went and whom they met. What was different about this case was that the surveillance subjects were lobbyists for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and one of their contacts turned out to be a policy analyst at the Pentagon." <<<snip>>>

[H2O Man]

68. It will be in Time, Newsweek, etc ....

What will be ionteresting will be to see how the case is presented in the media. If Newt gingrich et al frame it for the media, it will be much different that if people from the center-to-left do. There was an article in the Boston Globe by Bryon Bender, no longer available, that seemed to have information from a democratic on the Senate Intelligence Committee. It is referenced on the discussion following Laura Rozen's biographical review of Larry Franklin on:

http://www.warandpiece.comblogdits/001074.html

this was found at google/Larry Franklin.

Anyhow, the neocons are working very hard to spin the story to make it look like Larry made an honest error in passing the documents on to the Israeli front. They refer to him as naive, an curious description of a PhD working for the federal government.

[Me.]

69. Neo-cons Trying to Save Their Skins

<<<snip>>>

I'd be very curious to hear the backstory on this article in the Times. It's a follow-on piece on the Franklin investigation at the Pentagon,
entitled 'Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon.'

It might have been better titled -- All Neocons Get to Place Quotes Saying They Were Framed By CIA, FBI, Other Establishment Wusses.

Whenever the neocons come under investigative scrutiny their defense is always that the investigations are a put-up by their bureaucratic enemies. And this piece seems almost entirely devoted to their unsubstantiated claims of the same....cont'd



http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

[kohodog]

72. Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration

This from the WP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60497-2004Sep3.html

I just realised I already posted this over the weekend in this thread! But if you haven't read it it's worth it.

Sorry for the dupe.

[coeur_de_lion]

71. catching up . . . .

I've been incommunicado due to the hurricane for several days. I'll be posting on a *very* limited basis until I get electricity back on at home. Posting this from work.

Just wanted to do a quickie post to say hi to all and keep up the good work. Sorry I missed Wilson on CSPAN, I hope they archive the video file so I can see it some other time.

Really looking forward to seeing this come out in mainstream media.

Take care!!

[Me.]

73. Had No Idea You Were in Hurricane Country

but wondered where you were. Good to see you back. I hope you and yours survived well and that your home is safe. Come back soon and kick some more *ush butt with us.

[coeur_de_lion]

74. Thanks, Me.

I was so sure that the hurricane would pass us by. Well, it DID. And our electricity went out anyway. We had some high winds, and rain (not much).

Some trees down on power lines, which I suppose is the cause of all this. But nothing so major that it should have caused the electricity to go out for so many days. I think it's a Republican conspiracy.

We had fun Sunday night riding around in a golf cart, in the rain, playing trivial pursuit, and singing songs by candlelight. Not a total loss!

I'll be back for real very soon.

[H2O Man]

76. The new TIME (9-13)

has two interesting articles. The first, "A Web of Intrigue," covers part of the Larry Franklin case. It seems to be an apology for the administration.

The second article, "Extending the Axis of Evil?", covers the leading Pentagon "hawk" William Luti's saying that the Bush administration's doctrine of pre-emptive strikes on other countries.

[H2O Man]

77. Here is a great article!

"Behind the Headlines" by Justin Raimondo is another in his fantastic series on the "spy scandal." He notes that numerous press reports have been limited to "almost entirely the neocons' outraged denials." And then he does the single best examination of the significance of this story that has yet been printed. See:

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=3521

found at news at google (Plame)

[H2O Man]

78. Another very important editorial:

Opinion:The Pentagon- Are Any US Spies Sharing Sensitive Information with Israel? by Patrick J. Buchanan.

While not everyone on DU is likely to embrace the controversial Mr. Buchanan, he is definitely worth listening to. I am reminded of his 1999 book, "A Republic, Not An Empire," in which he predicted that the followers of Usama bin Laden would carry out a massive attack on a US city, as a result of tensions created by US policy in the Middle East.

In his new book, "Where The Right Went Wrong," Buchanan writes: "America needs a Middle East policy made in the USA, not in Tel Aviv or AIPAC or AEI."

In today's article, he calls on President Bush to appoint Federal Prosecutor Patrick "Bulldog" Fitzgerald to investigate the growing spy scandal. He identifies the target of the intensive FBI investigation as Doug Feith, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, and David Wurmser.

Plame Threads readers will recall that I had noted that Wurmser would become a central figure in this scandal. Buchanan quotes Wurmser at the Jan 1, 2001 AEI -- a full 8 months before 9-11 -- when he called for "joint U.S.-Israeli air strikes on Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Libya." This may be of special interest to readers who recall when, about a month ago, I noted that Usama bin Laden was aware that the US had optional plans for attacking the Middle East; several people on DU had stated I was wrong.

For Buchanan's editorial, found at news at google (Plame), see:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/9606266.htm

[H2O Man]

79. biographical sketch of "Scooter"

What type of adult male allows himself to be called "Scooter"? And how will this nick-name play behind bars? The Working Report on Middle East Affairs has a long and informative report on "I. Lewis ("Scooter") Libby: The Nexus of Washington's Neocon Network," at:

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/Sept_2004/0409018.html

found at news at google (Plame)

[H2O Man]

80. Corvallis Gazette Times:

A nice letter-to-the-editor appears in the Corvallis newspaper. It is the third letter posted in the LTTE section, authored by Sally Wong. She indicates a lack of trust regarding this administration. I think this letter is a fine example of what DUers should be doing. See:

http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2004/09/08/news/opinion/2lets.98.txt

found at news at google (Plame)

[Me.]

81. Feith Gtting Uncomfortable?

Good! I hope they are scaring the bejesus out of these punks.


From over at DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x810105

"
Sources close to the Pentagon tell The New York Sun that members of the staff of Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith have been harassed since the probe was leaked. They have received anonymous phone calls that play radio broadcasts in the background announcing the arrests of Israeli spies. In other cases, intelligence briefings on Iran have deliberately included information on Israel that would normally not be included. Last week, the staff of the Joint Chiefs of Staff refused for two days to share classified papers with officials working for Mr. Feith, sources say. Cooperation between the two offices only resumed after individuals at the highest levels of the Pentagon ordered the Joint Chiefs of Staff to cooperate.

The FBI is expected to interview members of Mr. Feith's staff today. The focus so far of the bureau's inquiry is a Pentagon analyst, Lawrence Franklin, who specializes on Iran. Mr. Franklin has been alleged in press reports based on anonymous sources to have attempted to pass a draft policy paper on Iran to two members of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, who in turn gave the information to Israel. Aipac has denied any wrongdoing."

[Me.]

82. What is it with these devout Catholics?

Hansen, now Franklin. Opus Dei? Will all this bring an end to the likudnaping of our foreign policy? So they sent us to war for the sake of Israel... I'd like to see all of these bastards frogmarched too. Will they be or is there a kibbutz haven waiting for them?

[H2O Man]

83. it's a big struggle

that is occuring right now in Washington, DC. Will a small group of right-wing neocons with rigid religious world-views be allowed to dictate US foreign policy? Certainly, so sane American wants to see the nations in the Middle East armed to the teeth with WMDs. But does it follow that we trust Franklin's religious insights to guide our policy? Based on his views of the Old Testament? His interpretation of the Book of Revelations perhaps? No thank you.

There is, of course, a powerful lobby that is fighting to protect this group. It's a huge struggle. I'm glad to see more of the media is covering it.

[Me.]

84. This is entirely maddening !

Not to mention mad and insane. So this little group, not elected, are doing their best to steer us into a wmd war...and those *ush people are aiding and abetting. Cause we can all guess it was Rummy who gave the order to let them back into the meetings.

And let's not forget that the old testament God, the God of the Israelites was a vengeful God. Combine that with the self-flagellating boys over at opus dei (no caps on purpose, they don't deserve it) and you have a combustible mix.

Also, this is not wonderful for all the Jewish people in this country who are subjected to ugly anti-Semitism on a regular basis . Do these Likuds even think what it will be if it is reported that they are indeed trying to run the world, via the US? Disgraceful that they should jeopardize people in this way for their sorry rapturous vision.

I'm glad they, the neos,are getting anonymous calls etc., and I hope the people trying to frighten them keep it up.

Can we hope H. that the neos will lose this battle and be put out of business altogether. It will surely happen if Kerry gets in?

Does this sound like a rant? Maybe it is, or maybe it's the passion to save the ideals of this country that all of us at DU share.

[kohodog]

86. Some light is being shed on the "shadow" Government

And they don't like it one bit. Gingrich and the far right are beginning to speak out. The pressure needs to be kept up. On the one hand they want Goss to quiet the CIA. Now the Joint Chiefs are making noise. They won't have enough fingers to plug all the holes in the dike.
Things may seem to be moving slowly, but this is somewhat like unpeeling a rotten onion.

[ramblin_dave]

85. White House tries to cover up investigation?

An FBI investigation into suspected security breaches involving Pentagon officials and Israel is unlikely to result in prosecution of senior figures following pressure from the White House, according to people familiar with the case.

The investigation has highlighted concerns that a small group of neo-conservatives in the Pentagon not only may have divulged classified information to Israel, but also tried to mount intelligence and foreign policy operations without informing the State Department and Central Intelligence Agency.

Sources familiar with the investigation said the White House and John Ashcroft, the US attorney-general, had intervened to apply the brakes. “The White House is leaning on the FBI. Some people in the FBI are very upset, they think Ashcroft is playing politics with this,” a former intelligence official said.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/344aa23c-0103-11d9-9d96-00000e2511c8.html

[kohodog]

87. Any bets on when indictments will come?

Can you say October surprise? My .10 is on 10/10.

(My son's birthday, nothing more)

But I think it will happen pre-elction.

[Me.]

88. What Odds? n/t

[H2O Man]

89. Pravda on the Potomac, by Dr. Ernest Partridge ("The Crisis Pages")

A wonderful article is on the DU HomePage. A great example of the high quality of work being done on DU.

[H2O Man]

90. On the other hand .....

there is a curious article by Pablo Kristophoros regarding the Kitty Kelly book, which makes some reference to the Plame case. I find it interesting that a book like this may reach more potential voters than some of the more serious writings of the past year. See:

http://sydney.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=45903&group=webcast

Doris Kerns, the presidential historian, was on the Imus show, and referred to this book as "explosive."

[shraby]

91. This is the kind of book

that will bring George down. Gossip will do it every time because it's powerful. I once read that you shouldn't ever do anything you don't want printed on the front page of a newspaper. How very true.

[H2O Man]

92. It certainly reaches

a significant audience. It's interesting to think of it in terms of the three groups: a) thoose who vote for you; b) those who vote against you; and c) the undecided. Yesterday, I bought three books -- The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, by Greg Palast; Losing America, by Senator Robert Byrd; and Imperial Hubris, by "Anonymous" -- all of which are incredibly serious and well-written books. Yet they will primarily apeal to those who are likely "group a" Kerry supporters. It is difficult for me to imagine those who read the Kitty Kelly book also reading Imperial Hubris (although I.H. can reach those usually in group b). It will be interesting to see how this book plays out.

[H2O Man]

93. Rory Kennedy is on Fox!

Her documentary is on HBO tonight. It has to do with safety issues involving nuclear sites such as Indian Point and how the administration has done nothing -- NOTHING!!!!-- to protect the public.

[shraby]

94. Meanwhile our little social security office

has an armed guard. :crazy:

[Me.]

96. Have You Been To An IRS Office for an Audit?

The security there is overwhelming. So much so I saw a man freak absolutely out and start screaming that this was no way to run a government office. They had to do his audit in the lobby of the building. I can understand needing security at the IRS but social security? Are they worried about legions of pensioners storming the office?

[Me.]

95. This Could Be Delicious!

When I first started reading about this book I thought it could be salacious enough to do real damage and sent out lots of emails asking if it would be covered as much as the swiftboat thing was. A throwing down of the gauntlet if you will. But I wondered why, given the extent that *ushco has been able to subdue the media why the book hadn't been stopped. On another thread someone said maybe they don't have as much power as we thought. The article you posted leads me to believe there is a power base at least as big as them behind this. After all, Plame could not have been in the original outline. I'm amazed that it's in the book.

Kitty Kelley is the perfect person to do this. She has received a lot of flack for previous book, so I think she can take it.

Never bought one of her books, or read them before. Funny how the world has turned upside down. Lordy, I hope all this sticks!

[Me.]

97. 41 Did Try to Stop Book

>>>snip>>>

"I realize how important the Bushes are to Larry," Kelley E-mailed me. "He does not want to lose their friendship or offend them in any way. And having me on his show would probably anger the family, because they made their feelings clear from the beginning ... when the former President Bush called my publisher and said he did not want this book written and would not cooperate in any way. So I certainly understand Larry's refusal to book me."

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/230329p-197785c.html

[H2O Man]

98. WMD arrests in Africa......

seemslikeadream has posted several articles about a series of arrests involving WMD components in South Africa etc on the latest breaking news and editorials/articles threads. A number of people have e-mailed me to discuss thoughts about how this may relate to the Plame/Israeli spy scandal. It's an interesting thought.

[H2O Man]

99. Great Buzz Flash article!

a "guest spot" by media history professor Robert Kane Poppas shows that the Plame case is alive and well. He notes, "When Kerry speaks about national security, he must relate it to the treasonous outing of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame by White House officials." More:

http://buzzflash.com/contributors/04/09/con04379.html

[kohodog]

100. whoo wooo!

:nopity:

I'm sure lots of violins will play for them when they leave!

Hey, I'll even through rice on them when they do the perp walk!!

[shraby]

101. H20 what is this????

Reporters files are subpoened.

Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A16

The federal prosecutor who has served at least four reporters with grand jury subpoenas in his investigation into the disclosure of an undercover CIA officer's identity is now pursuing a second leak case in which he has obtained a subpoena for New York Times reporters' telephone records.

Chicago U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald, who is also acting as a special prosecutor in the CIA leak probe, informed the Times by letter last week that his office has subpoenaed telephone company records. The move is part of an effort to determine whether anyone in the government told Times reporters of planned federal asset seizures in December 2001 at the offices of an Islamic charity suspected of providing funding to al Qaeda, according to several sources familiar with the case.

U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald is seeking reporters' phone records.

The FBI believes that a call from a reporter to a representative of the charity, the Illinois-based Global Relief Foundation, may have led to the destruction of documents there the night before the government's raid, according to findings by the Sept. 11 commission.

The subpoena seeks the phone records of two Times reporters, Philip Shenon and Judith Miller, according to the sources. Officials at the Times and in Fitzgerald's office refused to comment.

(The wapo address for the article is here)

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x815381>

I can't get in for the rest..don't have a password.

[H2O Man]

102. Try this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9890-2004Sept9.html

It has to do with some ugly coordination and inteference being run by our favorite neocons and their pet reporters. Always remember way back on the Plame threads when I said that CI etc have assets (not agents, not operatives) on all the major medias and in every college.The intel agency created in the VP's office used many of the right wing folks in the media. Surprise, surprise.

found at news at google (Plame)

[H2O Man]

103. For More Fun:

Read about Senator John RockefellerIV (WV-D) in "Democrat Lodges Complaints Over Leaks From Bush Campaign" by James Risen. See:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/10/politics/10leak.html

found at news at google (Plame)

[Me.]

106. My Registration at the Times Never Works,

But I get the gist. It makes me glad because it says he's on it. I have e and snail mailed this guy several times times over past weeks. Also called him and everyone on the intelligence and justice committees.

[Me.]

107. I Went Through Google

And see that in fact it is different from what I thought. But why this? Okay, it shows and is a part of a larger pattern but what about AIPAC/neocons?

[H2O Man]

104. Also, shraby, this is interesting:

"Spy Probe Scans Neocon-Israel Ties" by Jim Lobe

The "spy scandal" is part of a much larger FBI-Pentagon investigation of the close ties between prominent US neocons and the extreme right wing of the Israeli government, going back to the Nixon era. Of course, these are the same folks that made up the Reagan/Bush1 administrations. The investigation examines the transfer of "sensitive military and dual-use technologies" from neocons to Israel. These have then been re-sold, through Israeli "middlemen" to countries such as Russia and China; they have then been found on the "black market" (often in "bootleg" form) and are acquired by such groups as al-Qaeda. See:

http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=3478

found at news at google (Plame)

[H2O Man]

105. A republican response:

to all of this is found in "The Peter Principles: Closing the Barnes Door," by Peter Roff. He predicts, "It's going to be a bloody few weeks until Nov. 2." Found at news at google (Plame)>

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/guest/2004/pr_0910.shtml

[goclark]

134. Will we ever have this solved?

[H2O Man]

136. It's actually pretty much "solved"

What is happening now is that it is extremely difficult to get things brought fully to justice. Or even mostly to justice. I like to remind people that our federal system works best when there is the constitutionally mandated separation of powers. That separation insures the balence of powers remains generally intact.

The problem we have today is described in a painfully accurate way in Senator Byrd's great book, "Losing America." On pages 78 and 79, he discusses how the congress found out in March of 2002 that the administration had "installed" a "shadow government" during the morning hours of 9-11. This shadow government does not include or recognize the legislative or judicial branches of the federal government. Rather, it is entirely based on the executive branch .... and of the approximate 100 senior officials who run this shadow government, only two are elected.

The full significance of this is rarely discussed on DU, and never discussed on any of the major medias. For example, the revolutionary presidency that has installed this shadow government clearly allows for no congressional oversight of it. It has literally tossed out the constitution in favor of their Patriot Act. It would take a determined congress and an honorable Supreme Court to confront the executive branch on this. Remember, it is an action that has never been withdrawn or rescinded.

It's a strange phenomenon that at this time, the best hope for our system of constitutional democracy comes from some in the intel agencies, the armed services (below the top levels), and some of the federal district courts. Yet, the truth is that these forces will be neutralized if Kerry does not win this election .... and take the presidency. (Gore won the election of course, but because of a criminal Supreme Court, did not take office.)

[goclark]

142. Thanks H2O Man!

I really appreciate your input.

I just keep waiting for them to nail Novak to the wall and find Ashcroft and Chaney and Rove guilty.
I so want them put in jail.

From your post, my read is that " not happening" with this congress and another 4 years of Bush.

[Paxdora]

108. Kick!

This thread is too important to get buried.
Paxdora

[H2O Man]

109. I think so, too....

though I am not entirely objective.

[shraby]

110. H20...I've been

keeping up on the neocons, the investigation, Plame, Edmonds and all the leaks. It was just a tad wider with the Judith Miller thing than I imagined. All this might get everything out of Ashcroft's hands and under the Plame grand jury. Talk about tectonic plates!

[yodermon]

111. kick

:kick:

[H2O Man]

113. Shraby: you will enjoy this.....

Wayne Madsen was with the National Security Agency under President Reagan. He's a Washington-based investigative reporter now. It is safe to call him conservative. Yet he predicts that the Plame scandal will cut the Bush administration in half.... probably before the election. He recognizes the efficacy of CI insofar as getting that type of result. See:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081104_winds_change.shtml

Now that more information has become public, you can see that the neocon "spy scandal" was what I had hinted at in the Waterman Paper .... one person had actually spoke openly about it on a middle thread at a time it wasn't public .... and we didn't deal with it head on, as we were aware that other folks were reading the threads. So the RP American Judas served a purpose. But now it's time to focus on Plame, the neocon scandal, and winning the November election.

You should take the time to read "Imperial Hubris" by Anonymous, the CI analyst who wrote "Through Our Enemies' Eyes." (Or read T.O.E.E.) It would help to clear up some of the confusion about 9-11. Though sincere, those who think Plame-neocon spy scandals leads directly to Edmonds & 9-11 are missing a couple important points that are clarified in these two books.

[Me.]

123. Mindblowing!

and stunning. And what is the thinking of the Likuds? Was it an arrogant frame of mind that counted on never being exposed? If this becomes public just how do they think most people in this country will view this and hasn't the recent rise in anti-semitism been difficult enough for our Jewish people? And, as they rely so heavily on funds from the American Jewish community ; will the money flow decrease and how will that affect Israel? Any chance of the dragon woman Lynne Cheney being frogmarched? These are only the first of a thousand questions forming in my mind.

Interesting also about 41. How hard is he working to bring these people down, despite his son. Never cared for C. Boyden Gray much, such a complete party hatchet man, now he's fighting for a cause I believe in. I can't decide if we have gone down the rabbit hole or are spending a chapter of our time in OZ.

And yes, the delineation between neo/con/spy scandals/Plame & 9/11 failures/Edmonds/Bin Laden are much easier to see and differentiate between.

[coeur_de_lion]

126. extraordinary article . . . .

It is rather like a spy movie, this whole thing. We will be on the edge of our seats waiting for the cliffhanger . . . until 11/2.

I hope that Fitzgerald finishes up before then.

[coeur_de_lion]

112. U.S. Probes Alleged Leak on Terror Probe

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040910/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terror_financing_leak_1

36 minutes ago Add White House - AP Cabinet & State to My Yahoo!


By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press Writer
<<SNIP>>
WASHINGTON - A federal prosecutor is investigating whether two reporters for The New York Times were leaked information about a terror financing investigation that may have tipped off the targets of the probe.

U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald of Chicago last week notified the newspaper in a letter that he intended to subpoena the telephone records of reporters Philip Shenon and Judith Miller.

An attorney for The Times, Floyd Abrams, confirmed receipt of the letter and said he was negotiating with Fitzgerald in hopes of preventing the telephone company records from being subpoenaed. He said neither The Times nor its reporters have received subpoenas.

"We are in ongoing discussions to either seek to head that off or to persuade the government that it should not proceed any further down that line," Abrams said.
<<SNIP>>

[H2O Man]

114. Plame=Neocon Scandal=Chalabi=Iran

A serious article on "AIPAC of Spies" on Tom Paine. Those who have followed the serious work on the Plame threads know that Larry Franklin and Ahmad Chalabi are "two peas in a pod." More:

http://www.tompaine.com/article/aipac_of_spies.php

[H2O Man]

115. Also see:

more information on how the neocons are preparing the USA for more wars in a great article regarding Rumsfeld's "setting the stage for Israeli attacks on Iran," and a 8-19 conference call from senior Pentagon policy official William Luti to Capital Hill aides from both parties in which he detailed how "no responsible leader can allow" certain countries outside the "axis of evil" to stand. Luti made the case that the Bush doctrine of pre-emptive war may target Syria next.
See:

http:i.tompaine.com/blog.cfm/ID/8684

[coeur_de_lion]

119. they want to have more wars, on top of more wars -- and will

use our children to fight those wars. The thousands of young men and women who will die because they are in a fighting mood mean absolutely nothing to them.

Meanwhile, most Americans are still asleep. They don't know that this president has plans for their children, or that he has betrayed this country in every way possible. It is like collective denial.

Usually I turn off the TV when the * commercials come on. I accidentally heard * the other night though, making basically the same campaign promises that Kerry is making. I can't stand to listen to them lie! Promising more jobs, a safer America, education for our children, yada yada yada. Lie, lie lie.

[H2O Man]

125. I was speaking to a friend yesterday

who is a psychologist with many decades of experience. He said that the entire top level of the administration appears to be sociopaths. When you watch them lie on television, you can see a little gleam in their eyes, because they get a pleasure out of knowing they are lying, and that a large segment of the public is swallowing it hook line and sinker.

[coeur_de_lion]

127. I have a friend from grad school who once a month or so engages me

in this long email battle -- Arbustochupa the Dem against Tim the Repub. The emails fly fast and furious for several days as we argue. I love Tim, and I'm convinced that one of these days I will get him to see things right! So I never give up on him. The last debate we had, when he wouldn't see the light, or would not acknowledge the corruption in the * admin., I finally got mad. I told him he was drinking the same kool-aid that the rest of the Reps. were drinking and I was disappointed in him. He laughed!

The odd thing about Tim is that he *never* tries to get me to go to his side. All he does is attempt to refute my arguments against his side. On some issues like the Patriot Act and the Plame investigation he acknowledges that these are bad things, but not enough to make him convert.

I am not at all politically savvy, as I am *very* fond of saying. So if I can see what is going on, why can't everybody? What is this thing where they believe * no matter how ridiculous the lies are?

C'mon H2O, you are the psychiatric expert, can you please explain this to me? I work with, and am friends with, so may otherwise good and intelligent people who think that * is the greatest. What is up with that? I've had it with all these people!!! UGH!

[antigop]

128. I'm not a psychiatric expert, but this is what I think

>>I work with, and am friends with, so may otherwise good and intelligent people who think that * is the greatest. What is up with that? I've had it with all these people!!! UGH!
>>

It's an identity thing. It's part of their ego. It is part of who they are. You can't reason with them. They won't believe any facts you put in front of them. So they remain in denial. They *want* to believe. They *have* to believe.

(and they are convinced the Dems will take their guns away)

My 2 cents anyway.

[Me.]

132. What About Mass Hypnosis?

History is rift with examples of people willing to suspend disbelief.

Or the disassociation that was mentioned on another Plame thread?

And isn't the charm *ush supposedly has one of the traits of the socio, a charm that spellbinds. If you google sociopath + Bush you get many articles where "charm is mentioned as a factor. A wilful ability to manipulate. That plus the pug machine becomes a powerful factor.

[H2O Man]

138. A number of things come to mind.....

and I haven't prepared a response. So if I ramble, or sound disorganized, please just view that as a sign of my old age.

First: in our culture, as in most others, there is remarkably little social "climbing." The stratification is a constant. Most people end up in the approximate economic level that their parents were in. If we were to go back to the mid- to late-1800s, there was far more opportunity to move up the economic ladder than there is today.

The single biggest factor that allows change in this is education. Yet here again, the educational factors are so closely tied in with the economics that the social stratification is constant. Note that we are in the realm of sociology, rather than psychology, at this point.

When we see the constants in the educational/economic patterns, then it's safe to bet that there are cultural constants, too. While technology changes somewhat, (high-fi, stereo, tape deck, 8-track, cd, etc) that's only the outter window dressing. Inside we still see people with, for example, the tendency to remain at a constant. There is as much multi-generational "middle class-ism" as there is multi-generational public assistance. Or multi-generational wealth.

Now, going back to the mid-19th century society. Family patterns changed with the advent of industrial society. The extended family, with its healthy support system, breaks down to the nuclear family. In the 1970s, when hi-tech society begins to replace industrial, the family pattern changes again -- because hi-tech work places need "single" parents, not stable married parents. (Work place affairs are not merely tolerated, but encouraged, so the worker will prefer to be in the office than at home with a spouse and kids.)

At the same time, the type of cultural authority changes. This includes what we discussed regarding Fromm, but let's begin to apply it to the individual -- psychology rather than sociology.

In the pre-industrial state, (and obviously early industrial), individuals recognized and respected the extended family system as the "authority." They might well be patriotic, and willing to die for the country, but that is primarily so the extended family (clan, tribe) continues. (In European states, the "king" may have been a more powerful authority per say, but by definition was recognized in the negative, and not respected at all.)

In industrial society, the state becomes the authority. Whereas Grandma and Grandpa were once valued for their wisdom in day to day life, they become more distant and less frequent in the daily lives of many people. The children of the 1960s, for example, had a far different relationship with their extended family than did their ancestors in the 1860s, or 1760s.

The authority becomes the state, and it becomes defined by the educational system, and the respect is granted by the mass media. There is a "new" stage of development, adolescence, in late industrial society, that allows a person to temporarily rebel again the parents' values. But soon the Elvis records are put away, and the son of a factory worker gets a job in the factory. Generations of Americans were about as distinct as generations of dandelions.

Hi-tech society allows for an extended period of adolescence known as "youth." This period, which was clearly unknown in any pre-industrial culture, allows for extended education for those who will become as educated as their parents.

Now, as human beings are molded by these factors, (economic, educational, media, authority, family, etc) they develop what are perhaps best defined for our little discussion as "files" in their conscious mind. Any data/information they encounter is processed to fit into a pre-existing file. Most peoples' system of files is intact by early adulthood. It is created to make them fit as snuggly as possible into the economic/educational/cultural position they hold in society (or, more accurately, which holds them).

So, a republican, who appears rational, thoughtful, caring, humane, honest, and decent can be presented with a president who waves a flag and says, "I love freedom!" and who says we must attack the boogey man before he kills us, he has WMDs, etc etc. And when it becomes obvious -- painfully obvious -- that this president is as full of shit as any septic system ..... it does not fit into that republican's conscious file system. And it won't, not unless something dramatic happens.

The only authority that can ever successfully challenge either family or sytematic authority is charismatic. It means someone with an intensity that creates new files, as it were, in the minds of those dandelions, er, people. Or it can be something else intense. Like having a son killed in the war. But it is incredibly rare. Most people continue in the genetic and environmental mold created for them by their parents.

I'm not sure if that makes sense .... or if it's the rambling of an old fool.

[coeur_de_lion]

139. What you’re saying here reminds me of what

John Lennon and Yoko Ono said about Daddies in their Playboy interviews back in 1980. The president becomes Daddy, and if he fits their profile of what Daddy should be like, they won’t easily give up their notion of Daddy Bush always being right.

“LENNON: A lot of us are looking for fathers. Mine was physically not there. Most people's are not there mentally and physically, like always at the office or busy with other things. So all these leaders, parking meters, are all substitute fathers, whether they be religious or political. . . . All this bit about electing a President. We pick our own daddy out of a dog pound of daddies. This is the daddy that looks like the daddy in the commercials. He's got the nice gray hair and the right teeth and the parting's on the right side. OK? This is the daddy we choose. The dog pound of daddies, which is the political arena, gives us a President, then we put him on a platform and start punishing him and screaming at him because Daddy can't do miracles. Daddy doesn't heal us.”

Some people may think that Bush is appealing because he is like the big brother or Daddy they wished they had – who will protect them against the bullies of the world, namely the terrorists and bad guys in the Middle East. When 9/11 happened everyone was looking for Daddy to do something and get back at these playground bullies who murdered their countrymen, and Bush gives the appearance of doing that. Even if we know that Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, people want to believe that Saddam had something to do with it – otherwise their concept of Daddy beating up the bully doesn’t work for them.

[H2O Man]

140. If you read DU carefully

you will see two distinct personality structures: those who see the reins of control as external, and expect others to make democracy occure; and those who see the reins of control as internal, and recognize that they are responsible for democracy. By no coincidence, those of the first type are far more likely to believe in conspiracies being the cause of just about everything. "They" did it. "They" are capable of anything .... and everything. Because "they" have the ultimate control, and we are but victims of circumstance.

The second type recognizes that some things are indeed accomplished by conspiracy. Dallas on 11-22-63, for example. Yet that does not change -- even a tiny bit -- that we are responsible for our own actions. We either make it happen, or life passes us by. And, no matter how hard you try, there is a huge amount of things you don't have control over, because we are all sad and weakly human.

[coeur_de_lion]

141. which brings to mind something else that Lennon said . . .

I used to have part of it in my sig line on DU. I should put it back on there!

“You make your own dream. That’s the Beatles’ story, isn’t it? That’s Yoko’s story. That’s what I’m saying now. Produce your own dream. If you want to save Peru, go save Peru.

It’s quite possible to do anything, but not to put it on the leaders and the parking meters. Don’t expect Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan or John Lennon or Yoko Ono or Bob Dylan or Jesus Christ to come and do it for you. You have to do it yourself.

That’s what the great masters and mistresses have been saying since time began. They can point the way, leave signposts and little instructions in various books that are now called holy and worshipped for the cover of the book and not for what it says, but the instructions are all there for all to see, have always been and always will be. There’s nothing new under the sun. All the roads lead to Rome. And people cannot provide it for you. I can’t wake you up. You can wake you up. I can’t cure you. You can cure you”-John Lennon

[Me.]

116. So Who Is Going To Get Ash croft's Hand off the Tiller?

And how? Are the stories here and there building up enough steam to come to a boil?

[Me.]

117. kick n/t

[H2O Man]

118. He's going to have to

recuse himself from the neocon spy scandal very soon. There is growing pressure to appoint Patrick "Bulldog" Fitzgerald to head that investigation, which shows that it is recognized as another aspect of Plame.

[Me.]

120. Can Fitzgerald Take This On

and do a good job of both?

[H2O Man]

121. Yes.

Absolutely. He will oversee both investigations. They involve the same cast of characters and the same issues.

[shraby]

122. Any idea how many reps

are after Ashcroft to move the neocon stuff to Fitzgerald? I know John Conyers is after him.

[Me.]

129. Colin Powell on the Neocons

From: newsguyatl
Original message
Powell: Neocons "fucking crazies"

Colin Powell in four-letter neo-con 'crazies' row

Martin Bright
Sunday September 12, 2004

The Observer

A furious row has broken out over claims in a new book by BBC broadcaster James Naughtie that US Secretary of State Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.
Powell's extraordinary outburst is alleged to have taken place during a telephone conversation with Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. The two became close friends during the intense negotiations in the summer of 2002 to build an international coalition for intervention via the United Nations. The 'crazies' are said to be Vice-President Dick Cheney, Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz.

Last week, the offices of Powell and Straw contacted Public Affairs, the US publishers of Naughtie's book, to say they would vigorously deny the claims if publication went ahead. But as no legal action was threatened, the US launch of the book, The Accidental American: Tony Blair and the Presidency, will proceed as planned this week.

Naughtie stands by his claims and is said to be privately delighted that Powell and Straw have reacted so violently to the suggestion that the former US general had fallen out with the 'neo-cons'.

more http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5014153-110878,0...

[Me.]

133. Is Buchanan An "Asset"

Just saw him on CNN and, have to say it, he gave a brilliant interview. He handles Leslie rather than reverse, did not let himself get cornered and made his case backed up with facts. He is doing such a great job of keeping neo-cons front and center. a strange bedfellow day indeed.

[H2O Man]

135. Yes.

He is.

[Me.]

143. Bye the Way...

Why were Seymour H. & B. Woodward giving Kerry the business on MTP this morning? Surely if Woodward wants an interview he needn't be coy about it, he could phone? They can't believe *ush would be better?

And have the two factions in the CIA joined forces to perform "radical" surgery?

[sam sarrha]

124. I consider people like trump who buy destroy and sell viable business

and put people out of business mentally ill, and sociopaths...

They do not need the money, this behavior is obsessive compulsive, and sociopathic because they care not for the harm to the people not the country that they needlessly cause.

[autorank]

130. Uh, Sam...Trump endorsed Kerry! n/t

[shraby]

144. I can't find the link to

American Traitor by Robertpaulsen
Someone have the link?

[dmr]

145. Here you go ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=69033

[H2O Man]

146. Today's Christian Science Monitor

has an article by Gail Russell Chaddock on Tuesday's Senate confirmation hearings for Porter Goss. See:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0913/p03s01-uspo.html

[Me.]

147. If There Is An Israeli Civil War...

what effect will it have on the neo-cons and the likud influence upon them? Plus how would the schism that would most likely be produced among the Jewish people in this country affect the AIPAC/Neo-con situation, if at all?

[Me.]

148. AIPAC's Power, or America's Cowardice?

<<<snip>>>
Now, if all of this sounds familiar – and it should – that's because Perle, Feith and Wurmser joined other neocons in the Bush administration. Perle was especially vocal in pushing the war on Iraq. They had two pretexts: the attack of Sept. 11, even though Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with it, and the mythical weapons of mass destruction.

Netanyahu, by the way, did abandon the peace process. And, at a cost of $200 billion and nearly 1,000 American lives, Israel did achieve its "strategic objective in its own right" – removing Saddam from power. Unless Perle and his buddies were paid for their advice, it didn't cost Israel one shekel or one life.

I have long since given up the hope that Americans would wake up and resent the manipulation of their government by a foreign country. The Israeli lobby has been so successful in labeling any criticism of Israel, no matter how justified, as anti-Semitic that most Americans prefer to stick their heads in the sand. For sure, American politicians and much of the media seem to be terrified by the Israeli lobby, which says more about their cowardice than it does about the power of the lobby itself.

So, suit yourself. Go ahead and spend American blood and treasure for the benefit of Israel. <<<snip>>>>

http://www.antiwar.com/reese/?articleid=3551

[H2O Man]

149. This brings up a lot of important issues.....

For example, it seems to be more consistant to favor a homeland for the Palestinians and security for Israel, than to be for one and opposed to the other.

I think that Israel per say is an important friend of the USA. But when policy is formed in large part by the extreme right's interpretation of the Bible, objectivity is impossible.

The extreme right in the USA and the extreme right of Israel have formed an alliance. Neither represents the mainstream of their society; however, their aggressive and greedy policies created hatred towards both countries.

The basis for the fighting between the Israeli's and Palestinians is much like that between the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland. In both cases, there is plenty of room for both populations. In both cases, the two populations are genetically very closely related. And in both cases, the religious differences are minor: they arte branches from the same tree. The violence is not based on religion; it's based on control of the wealth. It has to do entirely over who controls the finances, the means of production, and the ability to distribute the wealth.

The neocons in Washington, and their friends from the Israeli fronts, are not concerned about religious matters. They have their eyes entirely upon the finances and means of control.

[H2O Man]

150. My feeling

is that the neocons in the USA and Israel believe that they will reap the benfits of violence and divisive actions. Many people believe they can control the dark forces of hatred, violence, and death. But they can't. It's the other way around. Hatred controls people in such a way that violent people loose control. Always. And that's exactly what we are seeing in the United States today.

[Me.]

151. Just Reported On Lou Dobbs

that Iran is holding field maneuvers on its border with Iraq.

I guess the neo-cons are singing today..."A dream is a wish your heart makes"

[H2O Man]

160. Yes, Iran has in recent months

moved a significant amount of troops towards their border-area near Iraq.

[H2O Man]

154. Patrick "Bulldog" Fitzgerald

to subpoena reporters' phone records to see if two NYTimes reporters warned an Islamic charity that the FBI was coming. See:

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=14025

[H2O Man]

155. Related article

on the number of reporters being brought to court, by Joe Strupp of Editor& Publisher. See:

http://199.249.170.220/endp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000629042


found at news at google (Plame)

[coeur_de_lion]

152. Robert Novak on revealing sources . . .

Stole this from another DU thread by upinarms:

http://199.249.170.220/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000628458
Robert Novak Believes in Revealing Confidential Sources, After All
By Greg Mitchell Published: September 13, 2004 11:00 AM EDT

NEW YORK Syndicated columnist Robert Novak apparently believes that the principle of not revealing confidential sources is rather flexible.

The man who has stood on this principle for months, in deflecting calls for him to identify who in the Bush administration "outed" CIA operative Valerie Plame, said this weekend on national television that CBS should release the name of its source for the documents at the center of the dispute over its recent program on President Bush's National Guard service.

On the CNN panel show, "Capital Gang," Novak expressed grave doubts about the CBS documents, then said: "I'd like CBS, at this point, to say where they got these documents from. They didn't get them from a CIA agent. I don't believe there was any laws involved. I don't think we'll have a special prosecutor, if they tell. I think they should say where they got these documents because I thought it was a very poor job of reporting by CBS ...."

Fellow panelist, Al Hunt, from the Wall Street Journal, then replied: "Robert Novak, you're saying CBS should reveal its source?"

[Me.]

153. I So Wish

Rather would call Nofacts out and say if you tell your source for Plame, we'll reveal ours on the memos. Wouldn't that be grand?

[coeur_de_lion]

156. sure would! maybe we should send him a little note and make

the suggestion . . .

[H2O Man]

168. "short takes"

in newsday makes a joke about this. See:

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vpshot153968367sep15,0,4838177.story?=ny-viewpoints-headlines

[Me.]

171. Hey Wouldn't it be Wild....

if Rather's "unimpeachable" source is George H. Bush, and he ticked off with what his son has done to the presidency and how he's tarnished the family name, and is now doing his best to bring W down?

[zestfolly]

157. Kick!

:kick:

[H2O Man]

158. "Saddam Hussein Revisited"

Washington Post's David Ignatius writes a fascinating article on Ambassador Joseph Wilson's dealings with Saddam during the 1st Gulf War era. This was when Wilson went head to head with the sociopathic Irauqi leader. He earned the respect and admiration of the first President Bush for his fearless confrontation of the violent Irauqi dictator at this tense time in history.

It's important to understand Wilson's view on Iraq, and Saddam, in order to fully appreciate the stupidity of this administration's war in Iraq. See:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/article/A19110-2004Sep13.html

[H2O Man]

163. "Goss promises non-partisianship..."

article by Frank Davies lists a dozen reasons he should be rejected. See:

http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/politics/9663087.htm

[H2O Man]

164. Freedom of Information Threat Level "Sever"

by Lucy Dalglish explores problems the media faces due to this administration. It's a thoughtful article. My only disagreement is on Plame. See:

http://www.mediachannel.org/views/dissector/affalert255.shtml

[H2O Man]

165. "Perfect Storm" threatening press freedom, panelists say.....

a panel discusses Lucy Dalglish's ideas. See:

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=14040

[Me.]

166. Unless I've misread

They still don't seem to understand that if you do in fact act as a government agent, as Novak did in Plame, that erodes journalistic credentials more than anything. And he still appears regularly on at least two shows. This "journalist" helped to commit a crime and does not deserve the protection of the law. What both articles seem to miss, also, is that in the last four years journalists (for large media outlets and thus have greater access) have been lockstep with the administration. This is what is eroding their credibility. Can anyone think of another administration who emailed or faxed their views as talking points, and then expected them to be followed on the show in question. And the talking points have been used.

The problem I have here is with the notion of "no matter what". Just because one calls oneself a journalist does that mean immediate entitlement to absolute protection under the law? There is a responsibility that should come with such a trust, and lately it has been absent. Do we really know what is going on in Iraq or with the plans for a draft? And should journalists be warning foreign suspects that they are about to be subjected to a search? Should journalists support those who are working against the interests of their country? Isn't that treason?

Journalists need to take a long hard look at what they do and address the possibility of a real code of standards, starting first with something like the Hippocratic, "first do no harm". There has to be an expectation of validity with what they do or their protection will be further eroded. They can't have it both ways.

Needless to say I am not tarnishing all journalists with this brush. There are many, Messrs. Rather, Krugman. Blumenthal, Conason, Hersh etc. who carry the shield. They need to rap their knuckles on the heads of those chuckle heads who have forgotten what a real scoop on the truth smells like.

[H2O Man]

167. I agree.....

It is important that Lucy Dalglish distinguish between a "whistle blower" who needs protection because (s)he is exposing a criminal action in government, and Robert Novak, who furthered a government crime.

The other thing is that Ms. Dalglish never seems to focus on the fact that President Bush could put a halt to this by simply coming forward with the truth. Here we have a president who is helping to provide cover for people in his administration who have violated a federal law. That seems like it should be of moreinterest to these reporters.

[zestfolly]

159. Kick

:kick:

[Me.]

161. double kick n/t

[Me.]

162. More Tidbits on Fitz's Second Investigation

Prosecutor to subpoena reporters' phone records in leak probe

<<<snip>>>

Fitzgerald, who also is investigating the leak of a CIA undercover officer’s name to the media, is attempting to determine if anyone in the government tipped off the Times reporters about a plan in December 2001 to seize the assets of the Illinois-based Global Relief Foundation on suspicion that it was financing terrorism. Existence of the probe was first reported Sept. 10 by The Washington Post.
According to a staff report from the independent commission that investigated the Sept. 11 attacks, the FBI had intended to obtain secret surveillance warrants to monitor the reaction of the charity in the United States after its overseas offices and those of another Islamic charity, the Benevolence International Foundation, were searched on Dec. 13, 2001.
“This plan went awry,” the report said, after word about government action was leaked to Global Relief, apparently when a Times reporter called a charity spokesman to ask whether he knew about a plan by the U.S. government to freeze its assets.
“FBI personnel learned that some of the targets of the investigations may be destroying documents,” the Sept. 11 commission report said, adding that the FBI then did a “hastily assembled” search of both charities’ offices in Illinois.<<<snip>>>>







http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=14025

[Me.]

169. kick

[Me.]

170. As Leaks Dry Up in FBI Investigation, Activists Still Fear Jury Probe

<<snip>>

Washington — Even as a lull in government leaks appears to be short-circuiting the media frenzy over the FBI's investigation of the pro-Israel lobby, sources with access to the Justice Department say the probe is moving forward.

Sources told the Forward that a federal grand jury is expected to begin interviewing people in connection to the investigation, which is believed to center on a Pentagon official suspected of passing on classified documents on to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Investigators reportedly suspect that Aipac officials passed on the information to Israel.

The reasons for the lull are not clear, but journalists and Jewish communal officials were floating several theories this week, including the notion that the sudden silence came in response to the condemnations from Jewish organizations and Capitol Hill.

"I sure hope that this is the case and that there was a directive" issued to stop leaking, said Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League. Last week Foxman sent a letter to FBI Director Robert Mueller and to Attorney General John Ashcroft asking that they investigate who leaked the information and why.<<<snip>>>

So, are they being lulled into a false sense of security because the leaks have drids up and Asscroft has received a letter? I wonder if the reason is because no one leaks in a Bulldog investigation. Also, for all the bravado I think there may be a frisson of worry beneath the skin, and for good reason.

[H2O Man]

172. Generally, the

tone of any agency is set by the person/people at the top. Patrick Fitzgerald sets the tone, for example, in the Plame case. A reading of John Dean's book shows the White House has a "no leak" policy set by Bush and Cheney. When they feel a leak would benefit their cause, they let it be known that it should happen. The "leak" to Novak could not have happened without Cheney's okay.

In the neocon spy scandal, it remains unclear who leaked the information regarding the investigation to the press. The FBI gained nothing from having it leaked. But there is reason to believe that some in the administration believed the publicity helped to keep the investigation from spreading at a critical time.

[Me.]

173. But Have These Leaks

destroyed the possibility of justice? They do have Franklin, wiretaps etc. Can enough pressure be applied in this instance to stop the investigation especially as the neos have beau coup enemies and have burned many bridges? Am thinking no but will await confirmation.

[H2O Man]

174. The neocons have

picked a fight with the wrong group(s) of people. One of the things that they never anticipated was that the left wing/democrats could ever believe that they have anything in common with any segment of MI/CI. But we have numerous things in common. Some people may have relatives, for example, with different political views on a variety of issues, but they may share a strong belief in constitutional democracy. Same with the younger generation of MI/CI and the democratic left. So there's one big thing in common. But there's more: we share a common enemy.

The democratic party is going to win the election in November. It's going to be a struggle. But we will win.

I'm not sure when the indictments will be handed down. Of course, I wish they were handed down in the morning. But we have to put this into the larger context: Watergate took longer to reach its climax. This may take a couple more months. But that's not because the Bulldog has no information. It's because he's finding plenty.

[Me.]

175. I'm Not So Sure I Want Indictments

before Jan. 21, 2005. I want trials where it ALL comes out and guilty verdicts where people are sent to jail. I don't want last minute *ush pardons for this gang. They need to be stopped and shamed for their deeds, and let them be a warning to any other neos who think they can rule the world.

[Me.]

176. Dandy Post From DU

quaoar Donating member (1000+ posts)

Thu Sep-16-04 03:02 AM

Original message
Post Source Reveals Identity to Leak Probers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24536-20...

A Washington Post reporter's confidential source has revealed his or her identity to the special prosecutor conducting the CIA leak inquiry, a development that provides investigators with a fact they have been pursuing in the nearly year-long probe.

Post reporter Walter Pincus, who had been subpoenaed to testify to a grand jury in the case, instead gave a deposition yesterday in which he recounted his conversation with the source, whom he has previously identified as an "administration official." Pincus said he did not name the source and agreed to be questioned only with the source's approval.

"I understand that my source has already spoken to the special prosecutor about our conversation on July 12 <2003>, and that the special prosecutor has dropped his demand that I reveal my source. Even so, I will not testify about his or her identity," Pincus said in a prepared statement.

"The source has not discharged us from the confidentiality pledge," said The Post's executive editor, Leonard Downie Jr.

[coeur_de_lion]

177. I sure would love to know who his "source" is -- H2O,

do you have any idea?

[H2O Man]

178. Yes.

His source was John Hannah.

I see that a new Come Together Plame thread has been started, complete with some very important history on the case. Let's move the discussion there. There is good news about Matt Cooper & TIME getting "fresh" subpoenas from Fitzgerald. (!)