Church sermon yesterday -- "the bible shows a bias towards the POOR"

[cthrumatrix]

The message was tied into "social justice" in our world. In that 3/4's

of the people on earth have trouble clothing/feeding themselves.

Furthermore, that politcal leaders should be aware/accountable and

take action.



Fast forward to AWOL... does HE show a bias towards the "poor". For

somebody who wraps himself in the bible...and declares his base to be

the "elite"...it seems extremely "hypocritical"



Share that comment with your "bible thumpers"...ask them if AWOL has

a bias "towards the poor"?

[JimmyJazz]

1. I woke up this morning thinking about this very issue

and I have a question. Can anyone think of one program/piece of legislation enacted that successfully helped anyone with an income less than $100,000 per year? I can think of lots of things that have benefited large corporations, but none to benefit the regular folk. And, the tax cuts don't count. The economy is not stimulated.

[cthrumatrix]

2. exactly.....what happened the the $5 Billion aids promise to others...?

Or the promise for education funding....renigged on.

[skooooo]

6. My mom would say..

...she has benefited from the prescription plan that passsed not long ago.

[cthrumatrix]

8. data would share that the discount is practically "nothing" and better

under other "normal" group buying available.

Let alone bring up the drug bill prohibiting the govt negotiating lower drug costs like canada does.

[skooooo]

11. All I know is that she's happy with it..

..and brings it up when I start harping on Bush.

[Kanary]

28. What til after the election, and whatever "card" she chose either raises

prices, or no longer has the prescriptions she needs.

I'm afraid some people are going to learn the very hard way.

Kanary

[merh]

31. and have you told her about John Kerry's plan to save her

even more money?


Cut the Cost of Prescription Drugs
The Kerry-Edwards plan will reduce prescription drug prices by allowing the re-importation of safe prescription drugs from Canada, overhauling the Medicare drug plan, ensuring low-cost drugs, and ending artificial barriers to generic drug competition.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/health_care/

[JimmyJazz]

9. I don't know enough about that one, but I know

my dad isn't receiving any benefit from it. I also suspect the drug companies will somehow benefit as well. I'll have to look into that one.

[Beer Snob-50]

3. I had this conversation with a republican friend of mine

this weekend. Our difference was not in that something has to be done for the poor but in how it is done. He defilnatly feels that we on the left give money to the poor but don't teach them how to turn thier lives around (the old argument that without the poor, we would be out of business).

[cthrumatrix]

5. can your friend look at "policy" and see how bush favors the "rich"

especially with the tax breaks....

At a time when there was a surplus...pre 911...awol decided in his campaign is was all about tax breaks for the rich.


NOT soc security funding and medicare...which got Paul On'Neill fired as AWOl's Sec. Tresurer...as written in O'neills book-- "The Price of Loyalty".

O'neill thought it was a great time to fund the social programs...not the chimp.

[Beer Snob-50]

10. oh he can see that bush's policies favor the rich

and he is against this! he just wants another way of dealing with the poor. as a catholic, he had no answer on what to do, just that it does not work in his opinion. we discussed this btw while at a cathoic retreat after hearing the story of lazarus in the gospel readings.

[WLKjr]

16. That's one thing that made me furious as hell

We had all that dough laying around, we could have eliminated or damn near eliminated the national debt, funded all sorts of social programs till who knows when, and still gave tax breaks out afterwards when the debt was uber-low. Economy would have boomed even more, and I don't neccessarily think I would be bashing the hell out of him right now if he was a little smarter.....although that's not the case now is it....:)

[Terran]

7. That's a very complicated issue

and you'd have to know a lot, in-depth, about how hundreds of programs aimed at the poor are organized. It's a falsehood to say that these programs don't try to show people how to help themselves. That's just another ignorant conservative stereotype.

I work with homelessness service providers in my state, and it absolutely standard for nearly all such providers to provide services to their clients that are designed to help them get their lives back together. There are actually very few basic emergency shelters that offer only food and shelter--those are in the minority these days *because* the federal government doesn't like to fund such services.

And by the way, it seems kind of weird, to me, a non-Christian, to say that Bible shows a "bias" toward the poor. I mean Jesus said, did he not, that the meek shall inherit the earth, and that it's a sin to oppress the poor? It's not "the Bible", it Jesus himself. The oppression of the poor was his raison d'etre, not a "bias".

[skygazer]

18. My daughter feels the same

So I asked her in a letter to write down exactly what this administration as well as past Republican administrations has done to

get people off welfare
and keep them off welfare.

That was a month ago. I haven't gotten an answer yet.

The truth is, the programs that help people get and stay off public assistance are generally put forth by dems - job training programs, after school programs, health programs. Those programs are always among the first cut by Republican budgets.

Ask him how many of those programs the Repubs suppport.

[rman]

25. at least your friend is honest

In that right-wingers think the Have-nots should be slaving for the Haves and the Have-mores. Or alternativly, that a small minority can not be filthy rich without exploiting the majority. It's a pitty they don't come out and say this in public.

[Quahog]

26. Your friend is dodging the issue

This is the kind of neo-con pseudo-Horatio Alger crap that just drives me nuts. "We don't need to give the starving people money! We need to encourage them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps! Tell them to buck up and get to work! Be industrious, apply themselves to an honest day's work! Then they will be wealthy and successful like us!"

What horseshit. Not only does this show a complete disconnect from the reality faced by people living in poverty (they HAVE no bootstraps, for the most part, their opportunities are nil), but it also shows utter ignorance of the teachings of Jesus Christ. His instructions were clear: feed the hungry, clothe the naked, house the homeless, care for the sick, visit and comfort those in prison, and when you've done all of this and recognize that you need to do MORE, sell all you have and give away the proceeds to those who have nothing. How rich rethugs who claim to be Christians reconcile this teaching with their greed, self-interest and blatant disregard for those in need boggles my mind. They are delusional.

[happyslug]

27. Just point out LBJ and Nixon's Policies

LBJ REFUSED to increase Federal Aid For Welfare, his Great Society Program were programs designed to help the poor stop bring poor. He provided transportation (Model City Program), legal Assistance (Legal Aid Corporation), Housing Assistance (Model City Programs and increase spending on Public Housing including starting the Section 8 program), Improved education (Through funding College for low income students, The Student Lunch Program, increase assistance to Public Schools), and Increase funding for Work Training programs. LBJ even invented the Food Stamp program and restricted it to "Good Quality Food" (as opposed to pre-cooked processed food).

Compared this to Nixon who wanted to de-fund all of these programs and replace them with a guarantee minimal monthly income (To be provided by the IRS). Nixon failed to get his program through Congress (Through part of it survived as the Supplemental Security Income program that exists to this day). Historically the Democrats have Voted for increase funding for and the formation of programs to help the poor cease being poor, while Republicans vote to de-fund those program and transfer the funding to Welfare for just funding welfare is Cheaper.

No, the argument that Democrats only vote for Welfare is FALSE, Democrats generally do NOT vote for Welfare, it is Republicans who vote for Welfare for Welfare is Cheaper than the programs the Democrats favor that help the poor stop being poor.

Since Nixon, the GOP has NOT offered or Founded a program to get people off welfare that was NOT tied in with cutting costs to such programs. Even the "Welfare to Work" program pushed through in the mid-1990s was more to get people off welfare today, than to get them through programs to keep them off welfare permanently. The GOP "Welfare to Work" program only "Succeeded" given the booming economy under Clinton, with the present Recession almost all of the drop in Welfare Roles have reversed.

The GOP likes Welfare it is cheap and keeps a steady pool of people to provided workers during boom times. If people on Welfare had better education, jobs opportunities etc then such people would not exist as a poor of workers doing boom times in the economy. This pool of unemployed is thus viewed as important to the economy to keep inflation in check when an economic boom occurs and thus the GOP likes Welfare (While the Democrats hate Welfare and tries to come up with programs to get people off welfare permanently).

[happyslug]

30. A Good Example for the difference between Job Training and Welfare.:

I once represented a Client for SSI. He was disabled do to mental problems. I asked the Vocational Expert, who testified in the hearing and heard the mental problems of my client, what would be his recommendation for such a person to keep his employment?

The answer was that the Client needed a "Job Coach" for about three months to show his how to properly interact with his co-workers, supervisors and customers. This Job Coach would have to be with the Client every hour of the 8 hour work day for 3-6 months. The Coach will have to follow up for 1-2 hours per day for the following six months. Thus the client needed this "Coach" for about a year, a Coach who held a Doctorate in Vocational Re-training (Earning at least $50,000 a year or $25 per hour) to watch the Client perform a Minimum wage job (Earing $5.15 per hour). Just for this Coach you will be spending $30-35,000 for a one year period. SSI pays about $7200 a year. The Democrats like the Job Coach which may permit the worker to work for 40-50 years and thus more than make up for the $30-50,000 investment in the worker), the GOP looks at same numbers and sees the same amount of money going to GIVE people (If they are on SSI) or just One person (The person with the Job Coach). The GOP just looks at these numbers and opts to the Money to go to Five people not just one (And welfare pays even less than SSI does for the price of a Job Coach you could fund 10-20 people on welfare).

These numbers are the problems, if you look at only this year, it is more cost effective to pay welfare, it is cheaper. If you look over the lifetime of a person Job Training is more cost effective, but requires a lot of spending THIS YEAR. Thus the GOP have always liked Welfare over providing the services needed to get a person off welfare.

[sage1]

4. I agree...

that's what I preached yesterday. It was the story of Lazarus and the rich man. And briefly I said: Who is the rich man in the world today? And stunned, the people said: Us.
And who is Lazarus? I pointed to all the poor of our country, and the people of Iraq, and Sudan, etc. Time to get busy...

[Beer Snob-50]

12. i teach ccd in the eighth grade

and last week that was our theme. social justice. i hope they came out of the class with an appreciation of their "responnsibility" as christians.

[ArkDem]

13. You must be Catholic

[cthrumatrix]

14. I am..but 90% of sermons do not really relate to "politcs"....so this was

interesting

I have also gone to unitarian services...actually like their message better.

[Beer Snob-50]

21. most sermons do not explicitly talk about politics

but in the case of the poor and those not able to care for themselves, Jesus' message is very clear. Programs that help those less fortuante is practicing what it is that Jesus taught.

[ArkDem]

24. The Catholic Church does fight for social justice.

[yardwork]

15. shrubbie is biased about the poor all right

Oh you meant, biased toward the poor? Shrubby is biased about the poor. He thinks that they are poor because (1) they are lazy and (2) God meant them to be poor so that the rich, ie., shrubby and his friends, could exploit them.

The gospel according to shrubbie.

[atre]

17. Do we go to the same church?

Do you go to a moderate Baptist church in N.C.?

I heard virtually the same sermon yesterday.

[cthrumatrix]

19. nope ...i'm in florida

[Kathy in Cambridge]

20. We were taught this in Catholic Church growing up

and the Catholic church my parents attend is very social justice focused. As much as I disagree with many of the teachings of the Catholic church, and as much as I'm horrified by the priest sex abuse scandal, the good lessons that I've taken away make me happy that I was raised Catholic. Compared to the fundamentalist and evangelical chruches, the Catholic Church understands Christ's true teachings much better and actually puts their money where their mouth is.

[indigo32]

22. We had a somewhat similar lesson yesterday

The gospel lesson was Luke 16:19-31


Luke 16
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

[grasswire]

23. you might like this

[GreenPartyVoter]

29. Ohh! Can I use that on my website?

-----------------------------------------------
And God told His children: "I love you. Play nice."

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm