Hey Laura you helped kill Superman..feel better now?

[vetwife]

I believe that Laura Bush making your ridiculous husband's idealogy thoughts of stem cell research dimmed Christopher Reeve's hopes. She had to get political and who is the next to lose hope on their diseases and injuries? Michael J. Fox or some one without a big name. People are dying and this bunch doesn't care whose hope they kill. Not all casualties from this administration are not on the battlefield. Some casualties from this administration are from lack of hope and depression and poverty. Some casualaties are from losing the will to dream and hope. It is a war of the mind and heart. I think Christopher Reeve had a lot to worry about in the last year with this election hinging on some of the stem cell decisions.

Was your friend you smashed to death in that car wreck not enough for you Laura ? You had to stump for no hope to the hopeful like Christopher Reeve. Did you help kill Superman?

[vetwife]

1. kick !

[Beware the Beast Man]

2. Yep, she was right there, plug in hand...

[Donkeyboy75]

3. Although Bush's policies on this issue are ignorant to say the least,

I don't think one could credibly draw a link between Reeve's death and the Bush administration. It's not as if stem cell therapy technology is sitting on the shelf somewhere waiting to be used. It is difficult to imagine as a useful treatment for these diseases within the next ten years...or maybe even 20.

[vetwife]

5. I respectfully disagree. I tell you why

I have seen veterans hoping for some relief from this administration to get their compensation and these are voting for Kerry. They take a 357 magnum and put it to their heads and blow themselves away. I know this. They have lost hope. What about the woman whose son was killed in Iraq and she had a heart attack...autopsy proved no heart trouble. The woman died of a broken heart. We don't know the anguish Chris reeve was going through just like many don't know the depression and faint of heart are going through right now. Did you know that 110,000 VN vets died by their own hand AFTER the Vietnam war? Something else, they said Chris Reeve had a bedsore that got infected. (The news) Does that sound like Reeve to you? He had been exercising for years. Not bedridden. Did he give up hope? No I think she and other idealogs had a big hand in destroying any kind of hope and who says 10 years? Maybe cures are just around the corner. This issue is very important to me since I have a juvenile diabetic daughter. This daughter said to me today, if Superman could not change their minds, what hope do I have? she went to school depressed !

[Donkeyboy75]

12. Who says ten years?

Just about everyone involved with this technology. This therapy is completely unproven in humans, and will require countless clinical trials to get approved. That takes time. In fact, ten years is eminently optimistic.

One of the most dangerous consequences of this debate is that those on our side are being forced to herald stem cells as a cure-all. We simply don't know that to be true right now.

And by the way, this issue is important to me as well. I have two close relatives with Juvenile-onset diabetes, and part of my Ph.D. thesis involved developing a strategy for treating type 1 diabetes. Unfortunately, stem cell therapy for diabetics is almost certainly quite a few years down the road as well.

[vetwife]

13. Laura Bush said it. She said 10 years even to hope . She is no

scientist. She does not have Parkinsons. She just has a bad case of koolaid addiction and stepford symptoms. If you tell me she has access to these researchers my comeback is this, they had connections to intel on WMD's as well. These people are wrong !
If this administration keeps on with their fear and hopelessness for the hopeful they will do more damage than we can imagine. Some times hope is all a person has whether there is a cure or not. These cells in a petrie dish are thrown away. What is the rationale?
Its not about the cure as much as it is about the hope ! I want the cure but they are giving us no hope to boot !

[Donkeyboy75]

14. I'm afraid you've lost me now.

Are you saying the scientists are wrong about how long it would take to find a cure? That was my figure, not Laura's, and I stand by it. I've spoken with fellow scientists at conferences, and that's the long and short of it.

[vetwife]

19. No ..I am saying this is about HOPE..Pure and simple Hope !

We have to look forward to science and look forward to things that give people a reason to think that they are not forever stuck in a wheelchair. To help them see a silver lining and adult stem cells including the lies of the one Bush said he provided which turned out to be only 8 or 10 lines and not the number he gave, is a straw to grasp. No one can give an absolute about the science of the research but by Golly, we don't need people like Laura Bush out there saying this is morally wrong. Who is she? She is not just a voice in the crowd, she has her idealogy confused with her justification of reason.
If Polio research had this president, we may all be in wheelchairs. Salk and many others would never have been heard of. I am saying if Laura Bush cannot be part of the solution she should keep her mouth shut and quit being part of the problem. I am sayig this is about HOPE for the disabled !
Laura Bush used the 10 year thing when referring to her Late Daddy's alzheimers. That is where I heard that number the first time.

[ismnotwasm]

33. I don't know if Mr. Reeve had lost hope or not

But I have to say I agree with you. I worked in long-term care for many years on a skilled nursing unit. You can have two patients, with nearly the same background, age, diagnosis, etc..hope and determination can the difference between life and death, between fight and flight, if you prefer. I respectfully disagree with the posters who feel Christopher Reeve did not appear (through the media) to be depressed. He was totally dependant for all his care, could even breath on his own for any length of time. My opinion,based on personal observation of like-afflicted folks, is that depression would weave in and out of his emotional state daily. A very remarkable man, he took what he had, and gave his all to causes he believed in. To have one small piece that does offer hope, even if it's not in the short term, even if it won't help you personally, perhaps but the next soul who needs it, and have it shit on, does affect your emotional state. He did not live to see any possible advances that could have occurred in his lifetime. He did live to see this issue misrepresented, used as a political red herring, and there was no way he could have known the outcome.

[smirkymonkey]

37. Thank you - that is exactly the point - HOPE.

How many people in this country, and not just those with diseases that could be cured w/ stem cell research, but anyone who hopes for a better future for themselves and their children, have succumbed to despair, depression and even suicide because of the lack of hope?

This administration is literally choking the life out of the citizens of this country with their politics of death, destruction and hatred.

[Pastiche423]

40. You are lost

because you appear not to understand the point of this thread.

Hope, no matter how small, is what keeps me breathing. Take away that hope, like Stepford wife, Laura, the rest of the neo-cons and YOU do, and I really have nothing to live for.


Keep telling me it won't happen, that it won't happen for decades, or take away my small hope and I will tell you that you are one cruel asshole.

I understand the point of this thread because I have lived it for 18 years, come Ocotber 17. I live it every fucking day!

[Squeech]

16. There are human treatments going on now

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/89/100250.htm

Saw this on TV last week too. There are two women who sustained spinal column fractures, who were told they'd never walk again, but they volunteered for this experimental procedure where stem cells were injected into their spines in the neighborhood of the break, and they've regained some mobility and sensation-- one woman can even walk (with braces).

Disclaimers: there have been more than two experimental subjects, and these two are the big success stories so far; this article says more people have regained sensation than mobility.

Also, the technique uses the patient's own stem cells, obviously not embryonic, harvested from way up in the nasal cavity.

But given this, I would say the ten year claim is plausible.

[Melinda]

24. Amanda, I must disagree with you on the "bedsore" issue

My brother was a C-5/6 Quadraplegic who lived 13 years after being mowed down and paralyzed by an intoxicated driver. And during those 13 years, he had more than 2 dozen major surgeries and other procedures to deal with the consequences of his paralysis, more than 1 dozen of them related to decubitus ulcers, ie; bed sores.

He developed severe bedsores from pressure points regardless of how often he was turned, how often he did pressure releases, how well we cared for him nutritionally or medically. We bathed him often, we massaged him, we cared for his circulatory system through massages, we used padding on those bony areas -- at one point my 6'2" brother was down to 72 lbs -- and yet despite all our efforts, he continued to develop them.

There are too many systemic variables in play with spinal cord injury patients to list here, but I wanted you to be aware that bedsore issues are right at the top of the list... and it was a bedsore that ultimately led to my brothers death as well.

Christopher Reeve most likely developed septicemia secondary to the wound, which led to the heart failure and subsequent coma.

I understand your anger, but http://www.christopherreeve.org/index.cfm is not the work of a depressed man, but a motivated and caring human being.

Christopher Reeve never lost hope; his spirit was indominitable, his message thought provoking, and his works inspiring. If Laura or Georgie did anything at all, they only served to motivate Chris Reeve even more as one can see by looking at his foundations website.

This is the only place anywhere that I'll post about Chris Reeve passing - the subject is very painful on a personal note, so if you don't mind, I'd like to say -

Fly on, fly home Chris... fly home and walk again. God bless and keep you, His love surround your family, His peace be with us all.

[vetwife]

25. Mother died in April and partly from bedsores , I know what you

are saying and she was turned as well but she had given up hope as she had arthritis and was very sick at the end. She was compeltely bedridden and we did all we could as well. She did give up hope there at the end though. I do think that so many depended on Chris Reeve for his advocacy and I think some of what I believe is being misunderstood. I think the whole agenda of the religious right is to stop us from hoping for anything. Chris Reeve had much going for him with his ability to have nurses and the monetary ability to hire people to take care of his needs. The average American does not and he knew that and I think that is why he was so passionate on stem cell advocacy. Do I think he lost hope every now and then, yes I do. I think all people when they have folks like Laura Bush hold an entire meeting regarding stem cell research being wrong has got to be disheartned. I know my Mom had infections from her bedsores.I know she had family who cared for her and yes I believe he did lose hope every now and then. Chris Reeve was a hero for advocacy. Laura Bush stood up and made a huge statement against people like Mary Tyler Moore, Michael J Fox, and Chris Reeve. She believes she is right but those people are making decisions for the average disabled people and they are making the wrong ones. Maybe it was just time for Chris to go on and walk in a better place but there are so many average americans who looked up to him for hope and we don't need the likes of Falwell and Bush to knock out dreams and hopes. I do agree with you on the bedsores though as I do know about them. Still, we don't know how Laura's speech did affect him. We do know The Monkey Bush has not said one word about him today or at least I have not heard it. I am not right aabout all things but I do feel passion about this one thing. The disabled. If I am coming on too strong and seem in the dark, I assure you I am notin the dark but I do feel the disabled are being thrown to the side just like many minorities and I hit hard with anger when I see hope eroding day in and day out. You are correct about the bedsores.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. And I must disagree with your disagreement.

Chris Reeve was a smart man. He could see that Bush is going down, and it would have strengthened his hope. He just couldn't hold out. I wish I could have seen him walk again.

[robbedvoter]

4. Superman was heathen score one for faithers!

As for the ones saying there's no direct link: not in the sense she can be sent to court for murder. After all, it'll be other people, nameless, unfamous that will surely die because of their medieval attitude.
reeves had become a simbol of the hope of a cure - so, in that sense, for other patients she did kill him.

[vetwife]

7. that is my point. That and my post above about the bedsore

[JPace]

6. Ouch!

still it has a ring of truth in it.
I hope that wherever Chris is now that
he has a wonderful healthy body now and
can do anything.

[elehhhhna]

8. If she can just get Michael J Fox to Shut up everything'll be hunky-dory

[elehhhhna]

11. Please explain to Reeve's kids that a frozen fetus vs. Daddy: no contest.

[vetwife]

9. My daughter said

If Superman could not get them to change their minds...what hope do I have. She left for school depressed ! How fast would they run out to the embroyonic store if one of their twins was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes or spinal cord injury? tell me..how fast?

[goclark]

22. Do people in their families get sick?

I agree with your daughter, how wise she is.

I think the blood in Republicans runs verfy cold.
It is hard for many, not all of them, to find compassion.

Remember when GW's sister died.
As a child he was upset and then he witnessed his parents playing golf the next day and having no funeral service.

Now he has evolved to this cold hearted soul.

[PaDUer]

10. kick..n/t

[welshTerrier2]

15. bush: just call me president kryptonite ... heh ...

you want tough ... i'm tough ... i killed superman ... heh ... you think kerry could kill superman ... heh ...

don't mess with texas ... stem cell research is against the bible ... i read the bible ... americans want a president who's tough and reads the bible ...

is this what right-wing christians mean when they say they are "pro-life" ???

[Ezlivin]

17. I've waited 24 years for the "cure"

And every year I hear it'll be "next year" or that a cure is "just around the corner."

Since I broke my back and became paralyzed (T4 complete), there have been plenty of news programs heralding the next breakthrough that would enable those with SCI to regain functionality. I've seen guys go to Russia, to China, searching for the elusive cure. Christopher Reeve's rehabilitation cost over $400,000 a year; very few people could afford that, least of all those that have no ability to find gainful employment.

There is an entire wing at the VAMC I go to that is dedicated to treating veterans with SCI. In fact, my physician is in a wheelchair. But they have no cure, yet.

Now the latest thing is stem cell research. It's going to be the cure.

Meanwhile the SCI population is dying from "simple" stuff like bed sores (pressure sores), pneumonia (I've lost one friend to that), kidney failures (another friend), liver diseases and other associated maladies. To prevent pressure sores, we sit on cushions that cost several hundred dollars. Wheechairs can cost thousands.

The vast majority of those of us with SCI "lead lives of quiet desperation", moving forward one day at a time, looking for those curb cuts or wide doors that will allow us to swim in the mainstream for just a little.

[Kanary]

28. Thank you for sharing your story, Ezlivin!

We at DU don't often respond to personal stories like yours..... I"m not sure why that is. It is our loss.

There are so many of us leading "lives of quiet desperation", as you so eloquently quote. Yet, it seems only the celebrities get the attention. I don't know why that is.

I know what it does to hope to be shunted aside. And, I know what it does to hope to watch so many like ourselves lose the fight.

If we can somehow find a voice, I think it's people like us who will break through the inhumanity in this society, who will show the sociopathology for what it is.

This society has damaged *your* hope, but I believe that *you* are *our* hope.

:hi:

Kanary

[Ezlivin]

29. Being an active part of a community is the most important aspect

Even with physical or mental limitations, most people just want to find a place to fit in and be a part of a community.

Thankfully the internet doesn't have the obstacles that real life places in our paths.

Take care.

[Kanary]

31. Exactly. And therein lies the rub.

Being "active" is directly related to being heard and accepted. The hurdles with that are formidable.

As a Native American friend reminded me recently, one can't be the only voice in a group. That way leads to burnout.

Kanary

[vetwife]

34. I too want to thank you for sharing your story !

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. Why Laura? Is she more rabid about this than her nullwitted SO? (nt)

[vetwife]

20. I think Rove put her out there to kill Hope for stem cell research !

They would have been (the press) all over Hillary !

[vetwife]

21. I just got this in email from the ADA community moderator from A/P

Reeve later married Dana Morosini; they had one son, Will,
12. Reeve also is survived by his mother, Barbara Johnson;
his father, Franklin Reeve; his brother, Benjamin Reeve;
and his two children from his relationship with Exton,
Matthew, 25, and Alexandra, 21.

There was no immediate announcement of funeral plans.

A few months after the accident, he told interviewer
Barbara Walters that he considered suicide in the first
dark days after he was injured. But he quickly overcame
such thoughts when he saw his children.

"I could see how much they needed me and wanted me... and
how lucky we all are and that my brain is on straight."


PLEASE LOOK AT THAT THIRD PARAGRAPH...THAT MENTIONS THE WORD SUICIDE.
I still feel he may have lost hope.

[vetwife]

23. Donkeyboy I respect your thoughts..I just believe in a place called

Hope I am not dissing your opinion of research. Hope is what keeps so many alive ! Nor am I ignoring your wonderful insight of the research timeline. I have 4 disabled in this household and HOPE is the key to LIFE. I have no use for Laura Bush or any other R-wingers idealog to further their political agenda. That is all I am saying !

[lawladyprof]

26. One thing for sure

If embryonic stem research does lead to a cure, that cure has been delayed (perhaps not by the three years since Shrub-let decided but by a significant period of time) and that delay will cost people their lives (and Laura you or your daughters might be one of them) and result in human suffering.

[RetroLounge]

27. Well, what did you expect from this Stepford Repug?

After all, kryptonite and Pickles are both green.

Seriously, it's sad to see that this man has died. He was an inspiration, and people whom are against Stem Cell research are freaking POS's as far as I am concerned.

RL

[Melinda]

32. Sit your little girl down, have her listen to Chris' words of "hope"

Thanks to another DUer for finding this interview Chris gave just one month ago to the BBC:

http://rmv8.bbc.net.uk:8080/viewsource/template.html?nuyhtgitpxz6nBomsfd5aonggh6vqeoamh4ec7l3bfr9do5g9q2n58

It's all about HOPE, Amanda. Listen. :)

[vetwife]

35. Thank you Melinda

I sat her down when she was 10 and told her to look at people like
Christopher Reeves and know there were high profile people out there trying to make a change for research. Not in that wording but that was the jest. She was asked to go speak with Mary Tyler Moore on behalf of stem cell research but she had an insulin reaction and could not go to that congressional hearing back before 9/11. She took Mr. Reeves words and MTM's and now MJ Fox and believed they could sway voters or this stupid administration so she could not have to worry about all uf us counting carbs and the bed wetting and the emotional rollercoaster rides that she goes through. When she heard he died, and heard what Laura Bush said she was furious.

She is very very hardheaded and strongwilled (wonder where she gets it) and was calling Laura Bush an idiot. Our daughter is now 14. SHe said, even if it goes nowhere for a long time, it is something to look forward to. You just made all of that junk up Mom to make me feel better about diabetes because I got it. You said I may not have it all my life. They won't ever find a cure and Bush wouldn't let us have it anyway because we don't own oilwells. How do you argue with that? I told her there were many more advocates than Christopher Reeves but she isn't buying it no matter what I say. She thinks and I mean really thinks..if Superman couldn't get through, who is she? Or any other average person. That is why I am as angry as I am.

[skygazer]

36. Respectfully

I'd call that a stretch. I don't defend either Bush and I think their position is more than wrong - it's immoral and cruel.

However, right now there is MORE reason to hope, not less. This election has brought stem cell research to the forefront, fixed attention on the possibilities and raised hope, not lessened it.

Your argument would make more sense had Mr. Reeve died after (perish the thought) a Bush/Cheney win. That WOULD serve to kill hope.

I understand your concern for your daughter and I respect what you've done for vets and seen in your work with them. But I don't think Christopher Reeve lost hope, especially not now. And when the breakthrough comes, we will all owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

Rest in peace, Superman.

[vetwife]

38. I thought about that too..Thanks !

I am just so angry at loss of healthcare and people without any knowledge of what people with disabilites have to go through makes me even more furious. It is a touchy issue though as Christopher Reeve's death cannot be politicized and I don't know where that leaves us without mentioning his name on the campaign trail on our quest for stem cell research.

Do I think Laura actually killed Superman. Of course not. But I do think this administration is killing hope for millions of americans each and every day. Those who did not and do not have Chris's fortitude and determination. I am tired and it seems this election has gone on forever and I want that bunch of morans out of office so bad I could taste it. They have hijacked my faith, my money, and I will be damned if they will hijack my hope ! They are testing it though.

[Oddman]

39. RIP Christopher Reeve