Suskind: "Without a Doubt" Chilling critique of Bush.

[madfloridian]

I wonder if this could be Bush's father speaking again through former advisors?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?oref=login&pagewanted=all&position

Bruce Bartlett, a domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan and a treasury official for the first President Bush, told me recently that ''if Bush wins, there will be a civil war in the Republican Party starting on Nov. 3.'' The nature of that conflict, as Bartlett sees it? Essentially, the same as the one raging across much of the world: a battle between modernists and fundamentalists, pragmatists and true believers, reason and religion.

''Just in the past few months,'' Bartlett said, ''I think a light has gone off for people who've spent time up close to Bush: that this instinct he's always talking about is this sort of weird, Messianic idea of what he thinks God has told him to do.'' Bartlett, a 53-year-old columnist and self-described libertarian Republican who has lately been a champion for traditional Republicans concerned about Bush's governance, went on to say: ''This is why George W. Bush is so clear-eyed about Al Qaeda and the Islamic fundamentalist enemy. He believes you have to kill them all. They can't be persuaded, that they're extremists, driven by a dark vision. He understands them, because he's just like them. . . ."

[opihimoimoi]

1. Bush is scaring the daylights out of a lot of people....including his own

Does God understand this guy?? I don't think so.

[Bluebear]

2. Whoa!!!! I just typed Messianic complex and here you go!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2499809&mesg_id=2500224

[Cha]

3. I'm thinking when bush doesn't win..

"there will be a civil war in the Republican Party starting on Nov. 3."

For the same reasons!

[madfloridian]

4. Aide says we are an empire now.

"The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based
community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge
from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured
something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off.
''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're
an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're
studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again,
creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things
will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be
left to just study what we do.''
Who besides guys like me are part of the reality-based community? Many of
the other elected officials in Washington, it would seem. A group of
Democratic and Republican members of Congress were called in to discuss Iraq
sometime before the October 2002 vote authorizing Bush to move forward. A
Republican senator recently told Time Magazine that the president walked in
and said: ''Look, I want your vote. I'm not going to debate it with you.''
When one of the senators began to ask a question, Bush snapped, ''Look, I'm
not going to debate it with you.''

[Katarina]

11. That was chilling

I am speechless. And I feel sick.

[calimary]

30. Absolutely chilling. I'm disgusted. But I won't be speechless.

Glad this was posted, though, as a REMINDER. Stuff like this just strengthens my resolve to fight these people until they are securely and undeniably and unquestionably OUSTED. And then facing prosecution. That would be nice. But I'll go for OUSTED, and then see what to do from that. PRIORITY ONE, however, is OUSTED.

Just confirms in me that I have to do everything I can, take every legal and moral step even possibly available to me - to get these guys OUT OF POWER. WHATEVER it takes.

By the way, HUBRIS, guys. This asshole, quoted just above, is an idiot. An arrogant, power-drunken idiot. He just blew it with his hubris. Tipped his hand. I like having enemies like that. Don't give anything away. Not your motives. Not your game plan. And you sure don't strut and swagger around, puffing out your chest and shaking your dick at people. You risk giving some of those people a clearer insight into what makes you tick, and a better idea how to take you down.

[TahitiNut]

13. Megalomania.

Before long, the only 'solution' will be to shoot back.

[ReadTomPaine]

18. Amazing quote. <n/t>

[yella_dawg]

20. Whoa!

THAT is some scarry shit.


You can't honestly make a statement like that("we create our own reality" blah, blah, blah) and be sane.

[cliss]

5. Thanks for bringing this up! I was planning to post

something along these lines. It's interesting we hardly ever hear anything about the Rotpublican party here. I'm talking about insider stuff, like shifts, trends, who's out and so on.

I believe this article is right on when they say there will be a civil war in the Rat-publican party starting Nov. 3. Now, this is stuff they don't want us to know about. But I believe there's already a civil war brewing inside the party.

#1 issue: I believe the GOP wants to dump Cheney. I believe they see him as nothing but a fat, bloated liability for the party. His in-bed relationship with Halliburton, and the many hundreds of $$financial favors he's done for other cronies has caused them a huge image problem.

He looks awful. He has the charisma of a water mocassin. He had absolutely 0% appeal in the vice-presidential debate.

His daughter is currently a liability for them. Like it or not, they've got their foaming-at-the-mouth religious faction to consider, and she just ain't making their day.

Consider: about 2 months ago, the Bush/Cheney website was changed to GeorgeWBush. This week, the Oregon Voter's pamphlet came out, and Cheney was missing. The GOP said that it was intentional. They gave no explanation.

#2 issue: why keep Bush, if we flush Cheney? They're currently thinking about this. Other possibilities? You name it, they've got em. How about Senator Smith from Oregon. He's smooth, really good-looking and he's got $$$ and connections. There are LOTS of other good possibilities to choose from.

Just oust 'em, and the Light is Green.

[Cat Atomic]

28. I think the split is between the Neocons and the "paleocons".

The Republican Party started depending on fundamentalists and authoritarian "true-believers" in the 90's- especially with Newt Gingrich. I think the old guard Republicans are really starting to get scared. The Neocons are ideologues who put their imperialist political philosophy ahead of big business- and they've got a firm grasp on the reigns.

They're consolidating more power in their own faction, and the traditional Republicans don't like it.

[SalParadise]

6. This is a scary freakin' article.

I sent it to my mum, one of the mythical creatures known as an "undecided".

What just occurred to me is that, what if he DOES win? He'd be sure to see his election as an affirmation from God since he was able to overcome the close odds of this election & would have NO doubts whatsoever about himself (not that he does anyway).

They'd be more dangerous than ever.

[Mandate My Ass]

7. Save us from Bush's base

"Mark McKinnon, a longtime senior media adviser to Bush, who now runs his own consulting firm and helps the president. He started by challenging me. ''You think he's an idiot, don't you?'' I said, no, I didn't. ''No, you do, all of you do, up and down the West Coast, the East Coast, a few blocks in southern Manhattan called Wall Street. Let me clue you in. We don't care. You see, you're outnumbered 2 to 1 by folks in the big, wide middle of America, busy working people who don't read The New York Times or Washington Post or The L.A. Times. And you know what they like? They like the way he walks and the way he points, the way he exudes confidence. They have faith in him. And when you attack him for his malaprops, his jumbled syntax, it's good for us. Because you know what those folks don't like? They don't like you!'' In this instance, the final ''you,'' of course, meant the entire reality-based community."

[madfloridian]

8. Yes, the more jumbled he is, the more they love him.

It is indeed scary. I do not remember any time like this in my life.

[helnwhls]

21. I keep going to the al franken line about how conservatives

love the counrty like a little three year old loves it's mommy. To a 3 year old whatever mommy says is right. Liberals love their counrty as adults. They love it enough to speak up and challenge things that are not right.

[madfloridian]

29. Or as Lakoff says, the strict father figure.

I will keep you safe, but you must be good and obey. You must take care of yourself if you want others to help you. Bush is our daddy.

[kentuck]

9. I read the entire article....

I have always suspected that this very attitude and lack of action is what caused the 9/11 tragedy.
==========================================================
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?oref=login&oref=login&oref=login

<snip>
Still, some couldn't resist. As I reported in ''The Price of Loyalty,'' at the Bush administration's first National Security Council meeting, Bush asked if anyone had ever met Ariel Sharon. Some were uncertain if it was a joke. It wasn't: Bush launched into a riff about briefly meeting Sharon two years before, how he wouldn't ''go by past reputations when it comes to Sharon. . . . I'm going to take him at face value,'' and how the United States should pull out of the Arab-Israeli conflict because ''I don't see much we can do over there at this point.'' Colin Powell, for one, seemed startled. This would reverse 30 years of policy -- since the Nixon administration -- of American engagement. Such a move would unleash Sharon, Powell countered, and tear the delicate fabric of the Mideast in ways that might be irreparable. Bush brushed aside Powell's concerns impatiently. ''Sometimes a show of force by one side can really clarify things.''

[capriccio]

10. The country went silent...

An excerpt from Suskind that says it all:

Lantos went on to describe for the president how the Swedish Army might be an ideal candidate to anchor a small peacekeeping force on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Sweden has a well-trained force of about 25,000. The president looked at him appraisingly, several people in the room recall.

''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''

Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.

Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.

[OutsourceBush]

12. The Christian Taliban Bush protects the Jewish Taliban

Sharon and now we are all caught in the middle of a 3-way fight between the Muslim Taliban Bin Laden, The Jewish Taliban Sharon and the Christian Taliban Bush. It's a virtual Taliban orgy brought to you by GW Bush.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

14. This is why We Who are Reality Based are leary of religion.

Encouraging people to forego critical thinking and just trust some authority figure is the main ingredient for atrocity.

What's that great Voltaire quote that is someone's sig quote here?
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

Hey, let's keep using our left brain out there, ok?

Religion is like alcohol to many brains who shouldn't be operating large objects or firearms in the first place.

[madfloridian]

15. "a messianic American Calvinist"...doesn't want to be doubted.

A statement by Jim Wallis of the Sojourner....

SNIP..."Bush looked quizzically at the minister, Wallis recalls. They never spoke again after that.

''When I was first with Bush in Austin, what I saw was a self-help Methodist, very open, seeking,'' Wallis says now. ''What I started to see at this point was the man that would emerge over the next year -- a messianic American Calvinist. He doesn't want to hear from anyone who doubts him.''

[AlCzervik]

16. I printed that article out and made several copies

then i went to my favorite local coffee shop and left them on various tables. My town is quite red.

[troublemaker]

22. Excellent! When you go back print some of this one too:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9927782.htm

[AlCzervik]

23. Done, i've been doing this for the past 2 months or so

about once a week, the lady who owns the shop is all for it, she says those articles always get read and people ask if they can take them.

[madfloridian]

25. We cut off our addresses, and leave copies of The Nation and...

Mother Jones in offices... you know sort of sneakily.

I don't like leaving our names and addresses, but I will tell you they get read!

[AlCzervik]

26. I love The Nation, i just reupped for another 2 years.

[madfloridian]

27. We have gotten two neighbors to subscribe.

They are getting people to subscribe. I love it.

[BeHereNow]

17. INCREDIBLE read!

Thanks for posting the link to this article.
If Bush INC steals the election again, and I firmly
they will, it is SO past time to get out of this country
while we still can.
BHN

[robbedvoter]

19. Here's another scary clip:

''I don't know why you're talking about Sweden,'' Bush said. ''They're the neutral one. They don't have an army.''

Lantos paused, a little shocked, and offered a gentlemanly reply: ''Mr. President, you may have thought that I said Switzerland. They're the ones that are historically neutral, without an army.'' Then Lantos mentioned, in a gracious aside, that the Swiss do have a tough national guard to protect the country in the event of invasion.

Bush held to his view. ''No, no, it's Sweden that has no army.''

The room went silent, until someone changed the subject.

[Cleita]

24. Damn, what is stopping them now?

I always thought that a politico gone mad has to be restrained by his own party like Richard Nixon. I also know that if most Republicans know that BuschCo is espousing fascist not conservative view, they need to do housecleaning within their party. What is stopping them?

Fear?
Bribery?
Blackmail?

My parents were Republicans and I became a Democrat because I believed in the causes of the common person. My parents believed that people made their own fate, not a bad idea, but an incomplete one. They would never have believed in the BuschCo lies.

[wrate]

31. If the Republicans split, they loose about 72 million Christian voters.

That is why nothing can be done about Bush and nothing will. I think it was Pat Robertson who spoke a few weeks ago about having their own party.