Where to go in the event of a draft?

[strategery blunder]

I am applying for my passport before the draft can be enacted, for obvious reasons (in case I have to flee the country).

That said, Mom works for United Airlines, which means that I have nonrevenue flight benefits. I could conceivably find a ride from my hodunk, freeper-infested college town to Chicago O' Hare, and then (once I get my passport), hop on a flight (space available) to any number of European cities. Where would I be most likely to be granted political asylum for fleeing bu$h*co's wars, and what would I have to do beforehand to prepare?

Would it be possible to go to Europe as a tourist, with just my passport, and apply for asylum once I'm in the country? Yeah, I know Canada's closed; I'm trying to find alternatives before I get stuck in a nasty situation.

That, and I kinda want to turn KKKorporate Amerikkka against itself, hence my desire to use flight bennies instead of sitting in jail here:)

I'm just a 19-year old. I know little, if anything, about immigration law concerning these things. I can't afford a lawyer:(

[max sg]

1. draft

scary that it's come to this

[donheld]

56. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[DrWeird]

2. Canada.

Some people say its closed. i don't think its closed.

[DireStrike]

4. It's not closed, it's just becoming an arm of the US.

Canadian law enforcement can and will work with US authorities to bring you in.

Personally I think your best bet is to go underground in the states. Or maybe just sign up for the air force and try to get a tech job stateside.

That's my plan.

[Radical Activist]

3. Why not just tell them you're gay?

Or start going to Quaker meetings now, just in case. There are many ways out of the military.

[rockedthevoteinMA]

6. how do you get involved in quaker meetings?

I know back in 2001, right after 9/11 * and the leader in Canada signed some act - agreeing that if there were a draft in the US that Canada would send all us draft fleers back :(

I am in the process of getting my passport, but have no idea where to go either.

I did sign a C.O. last year

[Radical Activist]

19. I would look here

http://www.quaker.org/

[rockedthevoteinMA]

30. thank you n/t

[mairceridwen]

15. can you still be drafted?

and put into non-combat type jobs or work as a medic as a quaker?

[Radical Activist]

18. I don't know

[strategery blunder]

20. Noncombatant "service" is not good enough

I will not get shot at under any circumstance for bu$h*co's Great Oil Boondoggle, unless the Iraqi Resistance mounts an actual invasion of the United States and somehow manages to fight its way into Missouri (or possibly Illinois). Which isn't going to happen.

The difference between combatant and noncombatant service in the military is that, if I'm a combatant, I can return fire if I get shot at. But I couldn't bring it upon myself to shoot much of anything.

[mairceridwen]

21. huh?

I was just wondering if quakers and other instituionally recognized pacifist types might be drafted in to other parts of the military?

i know what noncombatant means

I know that in WWII, people opposed to using weapons often become medics, but that wasn't a draft thing...that was a choice thing.

I think if I were called to serve in a just war, an unavoidable war in the name of something not motivated by ecnomics and exploitation, I'd opt for a medic type role.

[strategery blunder]

23. There's a reason why I limited my post to...

"bu$h*co's Great Oil Boondoggle."

I could see myself serving as a noncombatant in WW2 (not a medic though, the sight of blood makes me nauseate), but under no circumstance will I serve in a war based on lies and exploitation.

[mairceridwen]

25. oh

ok.

[readmoreoften]

5. Start going to Quaker meetings and register as a C.O.

If they need a draft they're going to make it hard to flee and/or return afterwards.

[erniesam]

7. I would go to Mom's closet and pick out the prettiest outfit to wear to

the interview with the draft board

[strategery blunder]

11. That might not work

I'm in Kirksville, MO, in college

Mom's closet is in Chicago

LOL, thanks for the thought though:)

[murray hill farm]

8. Asylum is unlikely..and complicated.not matter where you go!

Give it some thought and some research..you are 20 years old and you could go almost anywhere..think of it as an adventure and an opportunity to live somewhere..anywhere you would like in the world. There might be someplace that has always sounded interesting or appealing to you. Start there and research to find out what if would take to live there. It is always easier if you know someone, but even if you do not..give it a try anyway. Maybe you have relatives you could look up in some country and they could help you get a start. If you have skills, that will help, but manual labor ability and youth are useful where ever you go...think of it as a moving ahead, rather than a leaving because of the draft. See the world..there are a lot of interesting places to discover.

[strategery blunder]

9. I *think* I can get a medical exemption from the draft.

My family (including my freeper uncle, USAF vet) doesn't think the military would take me because my feet are too flat...but I want to be able to get out of the country, just in case.

Hopefully, it won't come to this, but if it does, I must be able to call Mom and tell her, "List me on the next flight to Amsterdam (or Paris, or Frankfurt, or Stockholm, depending on which country has the most favorable immigration law); I'll be in Chicago tomorrow morning."

Where is this country going?:scared:

Edited title

[fnottr]

10. does anyone know if Mexico's a decent option?n/t

[mairceridwen]

17. san miguel

has a nice artsy expat community

it's beautiful there too

[Tweed]

33. What about Ireland?

[mairceridwen]

58. too cold

and irish ;)

besides, it's only a matter of time before the sheep take over

[Tweed]

60. But you have the flag!

Certainly you should have more respect for the island!

[mairceridwen]

65. the island i love

it's the sheep i loathe

seriously, no disrespect here.

[Pooka Fey]

12. The whore media is banging the drum for an Iran invasion too.

I saw 2 front page editorials in today's AZ Repugnant: "Iran and the bomb - a nuclear Islam poses extreme threat to U.S." & "Nuclear terror strike is more likely than not in next decade".

Anyone have that feeling of deja vu? I believe "democracy" is going to be paying a visit to Iran very shortly.

[strategery blunder]

13. Ugh...I'll be paying AZ a visit over Xmas break, too.

I'll be visiting my freeper uncle down there. When I told him (over the phone) that Mom and I were having home-cooked enchiladas for Thanksgiving, he tried to ruin it for me by saying that bu$h* was also going to have enchiladas for his Thanksgiving feast.:eyes:

He wasn't happy when I told him that bu$h is from CT and that he bought the ranch in 1999 as a campaign prop:evilgrin:

That said, I'll be subjected to the AZ Republikkk and (worse) hate radio:puke:

[Pooka Fey]

35. Local AZ Air America Radio Affiliate AM 1010

I always make vegetarian enchiladas for Christmas Eve dinner. YUM! :hi:

[strategery blunder]

37. Heh, thanks

I'll have to remember to bring my own radio, so whenever my uncle has hate radio on, I can go to another room and play something more enlightened:)

I think I'll also leave my Walkman in his pickup truck, so if he gets any ideas on the road, I can divert my attention with a movie soundtrack. The downside is my Walkman doesn't have any sound-cancelling capabilities.

[imax2268]

54. isn't it funny

that since that station went liberal...the repugs around here just hate it so much...I like it when they play the calls of the disgruntled repukes saying that they hate that station now...it's so funny...

as for a draft...I would tell them to kiss my ass...wipe my ass with the letter and send it back to them...!!!

I'm not going anywhere...!

[NEOBuckeye]

22. I don't think so. The world will likely pull the economic plug on us first

Watch the dollar. There's a reason why it's in decline and why so many countries are currently switching away from it, and to the Euro for trade and a reserve currency. They see that we're acting like a bunch of 14-year-olds who found Dad's credit cards and his gun collection at the same time and are running wild. If Bush makes a pass at Iran, they will drop the Dollar, which is akin to "Dad" telling the kids that they are going to pay for everything that they charged. That day will effectively terminate the U.S. as a superpower, as we will no longer be able to pay for our ridiculously bloated millitary budget, or much else for that matter.

[C.C.D.]

14. What *are* the physical and medical conditions exempting from combat? nt

[alfredo]

61. After seeing 60 minutes last night there

is very little that will keep you out of the military. They showed guys so old and decrepit, they had difficulty getting into the fox holes.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/03/60minutes/main658994.shtml

How long will these people last in the heat of battle?

[NEOBuckeye]

16. If the Bush Administration brings back the Draft, they're finished

A draft seems inevitable if we remain in Iraq, but somehow, I don't think the Bushes are smart enough to realize what kind of an uprising that bringing it back will create amongst America's youth AND their parents. Even in the event of another major attack, 9/11-style, or worse, I just don't see the entire population going along with this, when they realize that it's their lives that are being put on the line, even among many of the fools who voted for Bush.

The Draft may well be the spark that lights THE fire. If it should be, then let it burn until this entire administration is consumed by the flames of justice, and the entire neo-conservative methodology is exposed, discredited and irradicated from the face of this planet.

[wuushew]

24. Why not go to prison?

Three square meals a day and plenty of reading material. Fleeing to another country is still in violation of the same law, the only difference is the opportunity to cause immediate social irritation and expense to conservative tax payers.

[C.C.D.]

26. Also medical care, dental care, organ transplants, cable....etc (nt)

[strategery blunder]

27. Because if American society comes to the point where

it looks the other way while bu$h* beats the draft drums, I no longer want to be even remotely associated with American society.

I would rather start fresh in a new country that doesn't hate me because I happen to disagree with their leader. And I could care less about 'expense to conservative tax payers,' to be honest. They'd have to pay for my prison cell anyway; I'd probably end up saving them money by emigrating.

I wish I could just renounce my American citizenship and be done with it. I seriously feel like a man without a country right now:cry: I've looked into just renouncing my citizenship, but apparently that is not possible. (I was born in California so I don't really have a choice here, and apparently I have to be a citizen of some other country before I can renounce my American citizenship.)

[wuushew]

29. Is it really that different then when Thoreau opposed the Mexican war?

Same unjustness, different century.



From Civil Disobedience 1849

I have paid no poll-tax for six years. I was put into a jail once on this account, for one night; and, as I stood considering the walls of solid stone, two or three feet thick, the door of wood and iron, a foot thick, and the iron grating which strained the light, I could not help being struck with the foolishness of that institution which treated me as if I were mere flesh and blood and bones, to be locked up. I wondered that it should have concluded at length that this was the best use it could put me to, and had never thought to avail itself of my services in some way.

I saw that, if there was a wall of stone between me and my townsmen, there was a still more difficult one to climb or break through, before they could get to be as free as I was. I did not for a moment feel confined, and the walls seemed a great waste of stone and mortar. I felt as if I alone of all my townsmen had paid my tax. They plainly did not know how to treat me, but behaved like persons who are underbred. In every threat and in every compliment there was a blunder; for they thought that my chief desire was to stand the other side of that stone wall.

I could not but smile to see how industriously they locked the door on my meditations, which followed them out again without let or hindrance, and they were really all that was dangerous. As they could not reach me, they had resolved to punish my body; just as boys, if they cannot come at some person against whom they have a spite, will abuse his dog. I saw that the State was half-witted, that it was timid as a lone woman with her silver spoons, and that it did not know its friends from its foes, and I lost all my remaining respect for it, and pitied it.

[burn the bush]

28. If everybody simply refused to go...

Hey that's that old 60's-70's slogan-"what if they had a war and nobody went?" or something like that.

[latebloomer]

59. "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

Great slogan.

[knight_of_the_star]

31. How about we link up in Ireland?

I hear that Trinity College in Dublin is offering full-ride to anyone who majors in Gaelic. I personally would head there for the simple reason of, aside from Northern Ireland, does anyone REALLY care what happens there? That and I think it could be possible to gain asylum there. That and as a plus the Euro is very sound, unlike the Mexican Peso.

[strategery blunder]

32. I had planned to major in history...

Though I'll do what has to be done...

Seriously, how would I use a major in Gaelic?:shrug:

[datasuspect]

34. if they do start a draft

and they reopen induction centers, shit in the piss bottle and act like you don't understand.

or masturbate publicly while getting processed.

i had an uncle that got out of nam that way. maybe they will change things though and give you meds now or something.

[strategery blunder]

36. I've considered spiking my blood pressure right before the exam

It is probably the most easily manipulated indicator of health, and it is perfectly legal to manipulate (unlike smoking pot the day before induction or something like that:smoke:).

I propose to simply drink lots of caffiene, exercise like hell, and think about $hrubya in the hours before my induction...the combination should get my blood pressure off the charts.

Failing the aptitude tests probably isn't a good idea--they'll just wanna make me a grunt.

I do feel a medical deferment is the best and most likely way out though. Got an anal cyst? Pretend to spew forth hate and your deferment paperwork will be complete in no time!:evilgrin:

So I hope...:scared:

[datasuspect]

38. if your dad is politcally connected

and you come from an east coast establishment WASP family that can trace its lineage back to the royal houses of europe, your father can "persuade" a legislator in your state to bump you up in line for a slot in some champagne unit.

worked for dubya

[strategery blunder]

40. Dad? What dad?

Mom and Dad divorced when I was three, and it was a rather adversarial divorce, if you know what I mean.

I last spoke to my dad in person in summer 2000. He supported the chimp and listened to hate radio. I wonder if he's woken up, but I doubt it.

[datasuspect]

44. i hear ya

sometimes dads aren't all they're cracked up to be.

i didn't get along with my father for a long time and still don't have much of a relationship with him. he's a died in the wool daley democrat, and he was always there, but he sorta wasn't.

it's hard dealing with lots of those issues, but eventually you learn that your parents are people too, and they make/made mistakes.

but i gotta say that it must be tough to have a father that is a bush supporter.

my ex-girlfriend's father and mother are like that and she is completely alienated from them.

[strategery blunder]

45. It's not that he's a bu$h* supporter.

At the time, I had just turned 15. My mother used me in ways she shouldn't have. She repeatedly broke the child custody agreement, but Dad didn't want to sue to enforce it because he thought it would put me through even more hell.

By the same token, Dad refuses to give me any contact info other than a nebulous P.O. box, because he's actually afraid of Mom. He thinks that if Mom gets ahold of his contact info (by spying on me:eyes:), that she'll hire a hitman or something.

Like I said, the divorce was not amicable. And I don't have enough information to rebuild my ties with Dad. It has nothing to do with his (former?) support of bu$h,* as what I know of his political affiliation is four years old. He could have voted for Kerry because he feared I would be drafted, for all I know. But I don't know.

[datasuspect]

46. well

my parents were married for 35 years and got divorced, but never split up and still live together . . . figure that one out. i guess now they live in sin.

i hope to god they don't start a draft, because i'd hate to see young people be forced to fight in bush's "holy war."

i'll be 35 in a few weeks, so i don't know if i'd be included in a possible draft, but if i were, i'd be willing to sit in prison for not going.

shit, i've already lost everything else.

[tsuki]

50. Are you your mother's only child? Is there still a loophole for only

children?

[strategery blunder]

51. Yeah, I'm an only child

but I don't think that loophole exists anymore. I could google it though

Edit: No, I'm not exempt
http://www.snopes.com/military/onlyson.htm
My great uncle died in WW2; that's the closest I can come to this exemption.x(

[this_side_up]

42. Benadryl (anti-histamine)

for allergies will jack your blood pressure.

You might want to find someone who has a
home unit or go to the medical office an
hour or 2 after you take one and see how
high it is.

Of course, you shoud have your bp taken
before you try Benadryl.

My experience is that they wear off after
3 or 4 hours, so you should have it taken
again.

[strategery blunder]

43. My blood pressure usually runs a bit on the low side

The highest I've ever had it taken was about 140/80, and that was when I was both ill and angry.

Usually, it runs about 100/70. The lowest it's ever been taken at is 80/52.

That said, I do have allergies, so Benadryl would be a legit way to raise my blood pressure.:D

[Pooka Fey]

39. Start working on your conscientious objector status right now

Canada and student deferment loopholes are now closed. Check out this link: www.objector.org
I checked it out, you will need to start gathering letters from teachers, ministers, etc. about your objections to participating in war. My heart goes out to you. :-(

Maybe try visiting the Canada forum here on DU (in State and Country forums) and ask the Canadians how serious they are about turning in Americans who need sanctuary. They hate * , so it's worth a shot.

[strategery blunder]

41. Unfortunately, I did not notate "CO" on my SS registration.

I despised Bush a year and a half ago, but I did not know of the importance of doing so:(

Personally, I think it's more likely that I'll get a medical deferment. From my understanding of determining CO status, the armed forces use WW2 as a 'litmus test' to determine eligibility...if you show even a hint of supporting WW2, your CO application gets flushed down the toilet.

Um, please correct me if I'm wrong? I appreciate the help, btw.

[Pooka Fey]

47. I don't know, but ask the folks at www. objector.org

They got their start in the Vietnam war, so they've been around the block with this before. You're really smart to be dealing with this now. It makes me absolutely sick to see whats going down these days in the US.
Maybe some people don't agree with me, but I'm convinced that * is going to invade Iran. Even John Kerry has talked about starting up the draft. It's the only power play the US has left - occupying and controlling land with oil; since our economy is shot to hell. The Middle East is the only place left on earth with really significant oil fields - so that's the only game in town.
If you really want to get scared about our collective future; check out the Peak Oil forum here on DU or www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net or www.fromthewilderness.com and then think about if it makes sense that an Iran invasion is on the table.
It's my privilege to help you, really. I just got lucky to be born when I was - too young for Nam, too old for this current crap. Good Luck!!!:-)

[strategery blunder]

49. Oh, don't even get me started on Peak Oil

I 'discovered' peak oil theory about a month after I found DU, in March of this year. I filed it away at the back of my mind, not sure if it was true or a crackpot conspiracy theory, but my chem professor lectured on it about two weeks later. Which made me realize that Peak Oil is some serious $hit.*:wow:

It also explained our foreign policy quite well, but I still vehemently disagreed with it. If we had listened to Carter 25 years ago, we wouldn't be in this mess. But no, Raygun came along:puke:

The really scary thing? My AZ freeper friends are well aware of our impending energy problems, but they still voted for bu$h*co. Gotta save those babies! They'll only starve to death after we say bye-bye to petrofood, after all.:eyes:

[Columbia]

48. Air Force

So you can be a chairborne commando.

[Pooka Fey]

52. Did you see this in late-breaking news?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1048067

[strategery blunder]

53. Thanks for the link.

For whatever reason, I never seem to make my way over to LBN.

That said, the Canadian government's argument that refugees aren't being "persecuted" will fall apart in the event of a draft, as it rests upon the fact that said refugees weren't conscripted. By the time there's a draft, I'll probably have some evidence of both government-sanctioned and social persecution to document any asylum claim.

I am somewhat familiar with Toronto, as I have been there as a tourist, but sadly, I have no connections to Canadians whatsoever. Other than the Canadians on DU, may God bless them with peace.:)

I am still suspicious of Canada, as the government has announced that they would turn over resisters to the US. All it takes is one person to betray, and I have been betrayed several times before. This is why I feel more comfortable with trying to go to Europe, even though I would have to learn the language(s) with absolutely no prior knowledge of them. I can speak rudimentary German, but Germany doesn't seem as welcoming to immigrants as some other countries in the region, such as the Netherlands, are....

[Pooka Fey]

55. Luckily, there's plenty of Europeans on DU to talk to.

There's the Groupe Francophone in the DU Groups, and most (maybe all) of the French people posting there speak English. You have to have a donor star to post there, but maybe you can send a private e-mail - I don't know how that works. There is a Dutch lady who posts there - she is the one who writes that she will be starting French lessons in a month. Also there's the Australian and UK groups in the State and Country forums. DU is a pretty sweet resource. I MUST GO TO SLEEP. Nighty-Night, SB !!!

[Pooka Fey]

57. You HAVE a donor star! Time to turn off the computer..........

[Kellanved]

62. Most European Nations have a treaty concerning drafts

i.e. you send us ours and we'll send you yours.

Your assesment of the immigration to the Netherlands being easier than Germany is correct, albeit not by much. Germany has opened a lot in the past five years.

[Zorra]

63. You can get a 6 month visitors permit in Mexico. Bring enough $, live

cheap, talk with some ex-pats on the Pacific Coast in a place like Yelapa, which is just south of Puerto Vallarta, and they may help you figure it out from there. With some decent gear you can camp inexpensively all over Mexico, especially warm beach areas (try the Lonely Planet Guide to Mexico for great info and advice.);-)

If you have an outside source of income and knowledge of Spanish it would really help.

Countries receiving asylum seekers:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922311.html

Being granted asylum as a war resistor anywhere might be tough to do without connections.

[ArkDem]

64. I keep an Afgan in my house, just in case.