As an Atheist, I have no problem with Christmas...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

I'll celibrate the birth of anyone who would give his live for the virtues of peace and equality.

What a wonderful man.

I just wish the religions would stop trying to use his words to gather power and wealth.

[stray cat]

1. Well said nt

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

5. Thx... I'm so tired of people thinking that just because one chooses to no

believe, that they are anti-Jesus of Nazareth.

We are simply people who think the way we do, and for the most part do not care to proselytize or anything else.

But, just like anyone, we might enjoy a spirited discussion about validities.

[Az]

15. Er... how do you choose what you believe?

Try as I might I cannot choose to believe things I believe not to be true and conversely I cannot choose to not believe things I do believe. I may come to understand something different about them in time. But right here and now I cannot choose what I believe. I am what I believe. Belief is the result of who we are.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

16. I call it "thought."

Everything is choice in one's belief system.

I really don't believe that it's hard wired.

[PassingFair]

29. You would not have had the same "thoughts" if you had been

...born in a different time and/or place. I suppose it's just coincidence that most Shinto worshippers are born in Japan? Or that most Italians "thoughts" turn to catholisism.
You have been culturally indoctrinated. You did not come up with this stuff by yourself.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

30. Some people decide to follow prevailing trends in a wish to conform

Others choose their own way.

I was raised in a Presbyterian household but by the time I was 14, I was pretty sure I didn't agree with a lot of what the bible and religion claimed. I'm sure that a lot of the reason is the fact that I was an unusually well read kid.

I feel that there are many unbelievers out there who embrace their religion du jour or local simply out of fear of rejection.

I did come up with my belief system (which is to not believe in an infinite creator) on my own. There was no particular author or person who steered me this way it is just what seems to be the most logical explanation of being to me.

[radwriter0555]

27. Yep, well said. I can appreciate celebrations that have transmogrified

into cultural expressions of familial events!

I like christmas, I just don't like the god stuff packaged along with it.

[Padraig18]

2. Excellent post!

:hi:

[MindPilot]

3. I'm down with any reason for a day off n/t

I say again: n/t

[wicket]

4. Amen to that!

:kick:

[shrike]

6. Thanks, friend

[NightTrain]

7. It's "Atheist," not "Athiest."

B-)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

9. LOL... I AM Dyslexic!.....

Or at least that's the excuse I'll use tonight.

:toast:

[blondeatlast]

8. In the past few days, I, who practices Christianity, have seen

a lot of crap from so-called "Christians" about how they are persecuted right here at DU.

It's all about THEM, not about Christ and his wisdom for Man, and Christ knew from persecuted.

Thanks, friend. I have no problem with anyone who wants to celebrate in any manner they choose.

Any excuse for family, for loving, for merriment, be it Solstice, Hanukkah, Saturnalia, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, Diwali, whatever--

After Black Tuesday, :toast: to whatever gets you to 2005!

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. If only more would practice than preach....

But, "so it goes."

You throw a human into any equation and it goes to hell no matter how solid it was before.

[A Simple Game]

13. It's not persecution

it's projection. Jesus was persecuted, they just want to feel some of the pain.

[arwalden]

26. LMAO!! -- I Can Agree With That!

[InvisibleBallots]

10. when it comes to the God issue, I am not an athiest nor agnostic

I'm acrostic - the whole thing puzzles me! :eyes: - George Carlin

[Kashka-Kat]

12. Xmas fine with me too

Its just our culture's version of the winter solstice festival which has its counterpart in just about every culture since the dawn of time. That Christians think they own Christmas is laughable and more than a little annoying. There's really nothing much Christian about Christmas except the name. The rest of it-- trees, presents, lights, mistletoe, santa, etc. is all pagan. The mythology of virgin birth & Dec. 25 birthday, etc. was lifted straight from cult of MIthras which at the time was more popular than Christianity, gods of various other cultures-- Frey, Attis, Dionysis, Osirus-- also born Dec 25.

birth of the son = birth of the sun

Anyway, I really enjoy that it is such an beautifully archetypal kind of thing, which stretches back many centuries b.c. and across many cultures.

[Az]

14. As an atheist celebrating Xmas

When asked what we celebrate our quick answer is Socrates birthday. Who just like Jesus we don't know when he was born. But unlike Jesus we do know he was born.

In the end our real reason for celebrating the holiday has to do with the same reason cultures around the world gather together in chilly times. We gather to keep each other warm and remind us that we are here for each other when times are tough. By exchanging gifts we show that we know what is going on in each other's lives. That we are a part of that life.

[Malva Zebrina]

17. I love this celebration

I celebrate anything that says these short days (3:30pm=dusk) will be getting longer! Tired of putting pajamas on at 6pm.

I like going to the town celebrations--the lighting of the tree on the village green and the shops on a small Main Steet all lit up with white lights. I like the whole atmosphere and the family get togethers, the traditional stories and the lawn displays and the wreaths on almost every door here in Maine.

Nothing about religious displays bother me, but I am dismayed to see the rancor and division and the attempts to smear the ACLU by promoting the myth or urban legend that secular organisations/people are trying to take something away from Christians during their celebration and they are going to get it back, dammit, if it means smearing and stomping and whining and pushiness and bringing bad cheer to all. I have not seen this ugliness before and I am sure, like everything else that has happened since Bushy set foot into the White House and proceeded to spread belligerance -- He himself enabled it with his messages of a god that tells him what to do.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. Christmas is what you make of it

As much commercialism as there is to the Christian celebration of Christmas, (and, yes, I understand the celebration's pagan roots) it is a relatively simple matter to make of Christmas what you want. You can choose to see it as crass commercialism and let it affect you to your core. You can get offended at every reference to Christmas you see and spend a couple of months pissed off about everything. You can see it as an opportunity to pick fights over things that ultimately come down to a select few obnoxious assholes. People who don't like Christmas or Christians have been complaining for years about the whole season of Christmas...I don't imagine it is going to change. The only person who can change it for you is...you...and it sounds like you have a healthy attitude toward it. I personally like just about any opportunity, religious or not, to have a good party and spend time with friends...

theProdigal

[Malva Zebrina]

19. Saturnalia

Io, Saturnalia: In ancient Rome, autumn planting was completed before the winter solstice (December 25 in the Roman calendar, December 21 in ours) and in the week before the solstice it was time to ask Saturn, the god of seed and sowing, to start lengthening the days again so the seeds would grow into a fine spring crop. After the temple sacrifice or the home pre-cenaeal prayers on the evening of December 17, the exhortation "Io, Saturnalia" was the signal to start serious partying in honor of the god. Saturnalia started as a one day celebration but soon became a seven-day party and the most popular of the ancient Roman festivals. A "Lord of Misrule" was selected in each household (still done in some British Christmas celebrations) and jokes and pranks were the order of the day. Heavy eating and drinking and especially procreation were encouraged. Small gifts were exchanged on the last day of the festival -- kids got dolls and adults exchanged candles. It was no coincidence that the early Christian church in Rome, trying to diminish December licentiousness, chose the 25th of that month to celebrate Christmas. For more on Saturnalia, go to:

http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/saturnalia/ Saturnalia





http://www.mmdtkw.org/VSaturnalia.html

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

20. So many of today's religious events have been cloned from earlier

celebrations.

See Hercules.

[Nadienne]

21. My only real problem with Christmas

is the "Show how much you care about others by buying them something."

If you don't buy decorations and decorate, you're some kind of grinch. I don't own a Christmas tree. Every year, my family members ask me if I have a tree yet. But for me, there is no point in having a tree, or in decorating. There is no point in pretending that this holiday has some special meaning to me. There is no point in faking laughter in order to make "happy memories".

Especially when this is the gloomiest season of all for me. I can't help thinking about stories like "The Little Match Girl" (or whatever it's called). I can't help thinking about people who struggle just to find food or shelter. I can't help thinking about people who'll run up their credit card bills because society expects them to buy and spend a lot.

My boyfriend and his family celebrated Winter Solstice instead of Christmas. Actually, they haven't celebrated it yet, they're a few days late. :) Of course, their Winter Solstice is pretty much the same as Christmas. We'll all exchange presents and have a good meal and get drunk afterwards and play Scrabble or something.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

22. That's some other holiday organized by Corporate America...

We need to come up for another name for that "holiday."

Your boyfriend's celebration sounds nice.

[Nadienne]

23. True enough! Corporate America can kiss my bunghole.

Maybe calling it "Shop-mas" or "Spend-mas" or "The Season of Idiots thinking that how much they spend will prove how much they love"...

[flygal]

24. Festivus!!

:P

[Guitarman]

25. As a Christian....

I have no problem with Atheists ;)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

28. You are the exception moreso than the rule.

:toast:

[shrike]

34. Those are the phony Christians

the ones who have problems with atheists, and everybody else. They have a problem with me, too. I'm Catholic, and in their eyes, the Catholic and Mormon faiths are cults.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

36. What makes me want to slam any particular religion is when they

decide to deride another's faith or belief system as not only being invalid but EVIL as well.

That may be why the fundamentalists are attracting so much ire from so many points.

[Kashka-Kat]

41. yes

That's it exactly, and if your religious belief is that you have a moral obligation to try to quote "save" other souls, and if your religious beliefs include utilizing government in the mission to quote "save" other souls ... well then that's where the problem lies. That's where your right to your religion intersects on my right to freely practice MY religion. Or spiritual or secular life philosophy or whatever.

Other faiths/sects don't contain that directive to go out and quote "save" all the quote "evil" or "lost" souls. It really does seem to be a Christian thing.

I'm curious, may I ask you Christians out there who are of the more tolerant/liberal variety.... what specifically are your beliefs about this, as reflected in the teachings of your church. Is it that some Christians are evangelical and others aren't? Or are you just more discreet and less "in your face" than other Christians. Help me understand here...

I do have spiritual belief and I have even had experiences which may be labelled as spiritual. But I have no compulsion to go out and proseltyze anything and it frankly mystifies me why others do.

In the meantime happy holidays (which YUP does in my mind include the birth of Jesus! As well as New Years, Boxing Day, Hannukah, Solstice, birth of Osirus and all the other aforementioned pagan gods!)

[dddem]

35. I agree.

As a human, I respect all humans. Yes, even w (I dunno, maybe it's that old Christmas spirit come upon me). Seriously, we need people like him. As distasteful a creation as he is, we need evil to truly appreciate good, you know what I mean?
And as a person of faith, I believe that even if you don't believe in God, I think He believes in you! Faith works for me if for no other reason than it gives me a sense of comfort. If, as an atheist (I suspect you are a very logical person) you don't require that, then it's all good. Most atheists I know are very nice people who feel that the responsibility for their happiness fall strictly on themselves. They don't look to anyone else (or any higher power) to blame when things are bleak, or to credit when life is good. Not such a bad way to be, I think.
Regardless of your beliefs, take some time to enjoy this time of year when people seem a little kinder to one another.
And I wish you all a happy and prosperous (we hope!) New Year.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

37. And to you, Sir or Madam, I wish you the best in this season set aside

for the concepts of peace, brotherhood, and kindness.

[greyfox]

39. Amen to that!

100 percent.

[greyfox]

38. Me either....

everyone has a God-give right to be what and who they want to be...

[0007]

31. I'll toast to that!

[rpannier]

32. Agreed n/t

[supernova]

33. As a Christian, I have no problem with atheists

A toast to all who celebrate peace and equality. :toast:

[greyfox]

40. Agreed.. and we may ALL share....

"And since we are his children, we will share his treasures — for everything God gave to his Son, Christ, is ours too. . . . "

Romans 8:17 NLT

God (mine, yours,ours) shares his love, peace and comfort with us. God shares forgiveness of sins and salvation with us. And one day God will share heaven, his eternal home, with those who believe in him.

[RandomKoolzip]

42. This is a wonderful thread.

I was going to post something myself about how I'm an atheist, but I hope EVERYBODY has a good holiday, no matter what holiday they celebrate, and may all people, of all faiths, celebrate peace and goodwill towards mankind.

But you stole my thunder, eloquently, and bravo to you for that, Mr. Joad.

Happy Holidays, everyone!


(And can we all be a little nicer to each other next year? Thanks.)

[Zhade]

43. Word. Real or not, Jesus' teachings ROCK!

I mean, what he actually taught, not what has been twisted since then.