Why Do Pro-Lifers Oppose Reducing Abortions?

[LisaLL]

Why do pro-lifers consistently oppose reducing abortions?

Recently, we had the opportunity to prevent one half of all the abortions that happen in our country with the additional benefit of safety and reducing maternal mortality. Making Emergency Contraception (Plan B) available over the counter and educating women about it has the potential to prevent 600,000 aborions a year in the US. This was supported by the medical and scientific communities (the people who understand how to evaluate research about effectiveness, outcomes and safety), and pro-prevention/pro-choice groups. It was vigorously opposed by those who call themselves pro-life.

I would think that anyone who *truly* wanted to reduce abortions would be thrilled about the ability to safely prevent 600,000 abortions a year. Apparently not. Pro-lifers, please explain why a pro-lifer would be against this.

Info about Emergency Contraception:

Initially, the use of emergency contraception was something we offered to rape victims in Emergency Rooms. After an unprotected incident, a victim could take a medication (now we use progesterone) to reduce the risk that she would become pregnant as a result of the rape. The way it works it that the med prevents the release of an egg, delays the release of an egg by several days until after the risk of pregnancy has passed (after the sperm dies), or by impairing ovulation which renders the egg less "fertilizable". There is a theoretical risk that in rare cases a fertilized egg may not implant.* If someone is already pregnant with an established pregnancy and takes it by accident, it does not harm the pregnancy.

(* If a "pro-lifer" wanted this rare and theoretical risk to be counted as abortion, and exaggerated the number of times this could occur, then the OTC availability of Emergency Contraception would result in the net prevention of *at Least* 540,000 abortions a year. Still very impressive.)

When this med is available to women for use after a condom breaks, a rape, or an unprotected intercourse, it is a way to prevent pregnancy from occurring. One half of unintended pregnancies and one half of all abortions could be prevented in this country by improved access and education about this. Again, I would think that anyone who *really* wanted to decrease abortions would be thrilled at the opportunity to prevent 600,000 abortions a year. Some people don't and many are spreading lies about emergency contraception.

Other facts about emergency contraception: It does not cause people to be more sexually active. It does not encourage more people not to use contraception. it does not cause an increase in risk taking. When available, women do not rely on it instead of continuous contraception. It is safe and it prevents pregnancies and abortions.

[xultar]

1. Frame the debate---THEY ARE ANTI-CHOICE... don't call'em pro-lifers

Liberals and Progressives are better @ pro-life than anti choice.

Often Anti-Choice are pro war.
they are for eliminating healthcare programs for the poor
eliminating programs for children's health care

See what I'm sayin...
Frame the debate so we can win this. Don't let them call us anti-life cuz we oppose them.

[LisaLL]

38. pro-choice

I'm interested in referring to the two sides as pro-Prevention and pro-Punishment. "choice" and "life" just aren't working and certainly aren't very accurate. I feel like I need to use "pro-life" and "pro-choice" so people understand who I am referring to.

[saltpoint]

2. It may have something to do with --

-- their being fear-gripped morons.

Misogyny alone doesn't seem to cover it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. First off when talkuing of these people

unless they are also anti death penalty and anti war, they are only pro fetus, they don't care what happens to the child after birth

[Doremus]

6. Don't forget pro-taxes, pro-WIC, pro-social programs...

No, they just get their rocks off imposing their preferences on all of us.

Once the babies are born they couldn't care less about them.

[blondeatlast]

11. Very good point. No one is free from hypocrisy. I do try, but

know I'm as guilty as anyone.

[stevebreeze]

4. to start with the term "pro-life" is a big "f"in lie

they are anti abortion and not pro life. They believe at the heart of it that a man's sperm has more rights then the woman who must bear the child. This is why they are opposed to emergency contraception even in the case of rape.

Most people are more reasonable and would agree with us on the left. It is only a few extremest that believe as I stated. The problem is the people currently in charge of our government believe as I outlined but will not admit so to the public.

[DemBones DemBones]

5. Pro-Lifers believe life begins at conception,

not at implantation.

"Emergency Contraception (Plan B)" is NOT contraception.

Contra-ception (meaning "against conception") PREVENTS conception.

So-called "Emergency Contraception (Plan B)" prevents birth by making it impossible for the new embryo to implant in the woman's uterus.

Such early destruction of an embryo is not acceptable to most pro-lifers.

[benddem]

7. Anti Abortion freaks

do not care where or when life begins...this is simply a matter of controlling women. Have you ever noticed that 70% of all anti abortion protestors are men and 100% of them will never be pregnant.
Make sure in framing the issue you call them "enforced pregnancies."

[DemBones DemBones]

49. I'm a woman, have been pregnant and given birth,

and, in your terms, I am "an Anti-Abortion freak."

I do not believe it is morally or ethically permissible to kill other human beings.

Not by warfare.

Not by execution.

Not by abortion.

Not by euthanasia.


I do not want women to be controlled; I want men and women to better control themselves and avoid pregnancies that they are not willing to continue.

I hope to see this happen through men and women realizing the moral and ethical importance of doing this and acting on that realization..

I support helping women to be able to keep their children if they wish and require help to do so, and I support adoption as an alternative for women who have a child they don't feel able to raise.

I do not want abortion to be outlawed again, but I expect that that is what will happen.

[Comicstripper]

19. Self-delete

[LisaLL]

35. Mechanism

But DemBones,

Preventing implantation is *not* the mechanism of emergency contraception. The other mechanisms (delay/inhibit ovulation ) have evidence. The *idea* of preventing implantation is a *theoretical* unproven, unsupported risk. Even if it occurred a hugely exaggerated 10% of the time, they could still prevent 540,000 abortions a year.

So, who is spreading the myth that the action of Plan B is primarily preventing implantation?

[Misunderestimator]

42. And stem cell research... how do you stand on that?

Since that too is destruction of an embryo.

[Cuban_Liberal]

8. Please, don't confuse 'pro-life' with 'pro-birth'

They're two different groups entirely.

:)

[Malva Zebrina]

9. that is a nice post

It is not about preventing abortions. It is about strapping women and making them subordinate by exercising complete control over them.

The "vessel" is there for everybody to claim as their own when they start making the rules as to what she may or may not do with it, no matter what. It is, in effect, forcing pregnancy which in this day and age, is absurd.

It is about making women less than and the fools who claim to be pro-life, do not see this aspect--that it is the woman who deserves to have a life according to her own choosing. They see themselves as the vagina police ready at a moment's notice to claim a baby is a blob of cells.

in the case, of rape, incest or any of the situations you mentioned above, the WOMAN is the primary concern, not a blob of cells. It makes practical sense to administer or to recommend the morning after pill in those cases.

pro-life people cannot accept that, and it is unfortunate that many women who call themselves pro-life have bought this notion that a "baby" is present in a tablespoonful of blood and cells, and are quite willing to see their sisters become tyrannized by religious beliefs or by the state, which by now, have joined arms to fight the evil vagina.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. You are aware that birth control methods

do HAVE a failure rate, don't you?

[blondeatlast]

14. Don't trouble the newbie with pesky FACTS, darnit!

And every act of intercourse is of course entirely mutually agreed upon by consenting adults. Always, always.

//sarcasm//

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blondeatlast]

17. I suspect there will be no time for such frivolity.

And I save my beers for promising newcomers, if you know what I mean.and I think you do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I do

:-)

[PA Democrat]

27. Please do not introduce shades of gray to those who see

everything purely in terms of black and white. Life is so much simpler without all those shades of gray.

Interesting that the Catholic church is staunchly anti-contraception as well. I guess for Catholics, if you don't want kids, don't have sex, period.

Sad too, that there are a segment of "pro-lifers" (I use the term facetiously) who oppose distributing condoms to prevent AIDS. I guess for them, if you don't want AIDS, don't have sex, period.

[LisaLL]

36. failure rates

Absolutely. there are perfect use and typical failure rates. Small failure rates is not any kind of excuse not to use contraception!! I recommend the use of more than one at a time (depo plus condoms, OCPs plus condoms, etc)

Using no contraception has an 85% failure rate.
Depo-Provera has a perfect use failure rate of 0.3%. Typical failure 3%.
Abstinence has a perfect use failure rate of zero, but a typical failure rate that is *unknown*. (They may have higher rates of pregnancy than standard contraception because they are less likley to use contraception when they fail to abstain).

Use of Emergency Contraception reduces the risk of pregnancy occurring from a single act by 89%.

If the goal is preventing pregnancy and preventing abortion, contraception is essential.

[blondeatlast]

13. And in cases of rape, incest, etc.?

What then?

Edit: Dear Peg, we think broadly and deeply on DU and expect that most will do the same.

Parroting tired RW arguments won't win you fans.

[Comicstripper]

20. BUT IT'S NOT ABORTION

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy, and the medical definition of pregnancy since at least the '70s has been AFTER the fertilized egg attaches to the uterus. "The morning after pill" interferes with ovulation, making attachment less likely. SO it prevents pregnancy, doesn't end it.
The truth is, the availability of this product would most likely signinficantly cut down on the abortion rate.

So, I don't know why you people think that way. Beats me.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Pregnancy as punishment?

What an enlightened viewpoint. Drivers who don't buckle up and go through the windshield shouldn't be treated? How about "irresponsible" workers who have accidents? Just let them "live" with their injuries?
"Irresponsible" people who marry the wrong person? No divorces?

The list can go on.

[blondeatlast]

28. Indeed.

And again, sexual activity is ALWAYS agreed upon, in right mind by consenting adults.

Children are NEVER forced or coerced, young girls are NEVER taken advantage of.

What world did Dear Miss Peg arrive at DU from; cause I want to inhabit THAT one, not this one.

[LisaLL]

44. preg as punishment

Tierra,

Reply #10 was deleted by the moderater before I read it. Did she say that pregnancy should be punishment for having sex? This has been one of my premises for explaining the wildly inconsistent positions of most pro-lifers (and their opposition to reducing abortions). I hadn't had someone fully admit it, yet.

[Nobody]

46. I missed it too

But if that's what she said, then you know where her concern lies.

Not with any potential blastocyst, and especially not with any living, breathing woman.

I wonder what her response would be to someone offering her the opportunity to avoid an abortion by implanting the embryo into her own uterus.

After all, if she thinks a woman's uterus is community property, that naturally would include her own.

As I used to say as a kid, dares go first.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. She said that "irresponsible" women should have to "live with it".

Which I think is the whole foundation of the pro-pregnancy (AKA pro-life) movement. Although, she did say something along the lines that any woman so "irresponsible" as not to use birth control should have to accept the "consequences". Consequences being pregnancy and giving birth. Forcing a woman to give birth sounds an awful lot like punishment to me.

I'm all for birth control and think it's kind of dumb not to use it if available. However, I don't think that those who don't use it, for whatever reason other than wanting to give birth, should be condemned to having a baby they don't want.

IMO, it reduces women to the status of slaves.

[JohnnyRingo]

26. Unfortunately, society usually becomes "responsible" for many ...

...unwanted pregnancies.
If we ban abortion...we must reinforce the welfare system to support the unaffordably large families.

Is that screaming I hear on the right?

[blondeatlast]

31. And I was SOOOOOOOOOOOOO waiting for your response, too.

Not!

[LisaLL]

39. thanks

I found this event enormously revealing about true motives and goals. The overwhelming scientific evidence about it's safety, effectiveness, and use was ignored in the FDAs decision not to make it over the counter. Many of the credible medical organizations have put out statements criticizing the decision which can only be explained by the government ignoring the science (ACOG, AMA). All of the statements and so-called concerns against were things that were already proven to be false.

[flygal]

15. They need their issue to bring in the flock

I know a lot of pro-life voters who use birth control, use science to help conceive, had many many partners. Don't matter, it's a way of getting more people to vote the conservative agenda which I don't think will actually bring an end to abortion. They need to keep their flock in line.

[JohnnyRingo]

18. Narrow minds see only in tunnel vision.

"Pro-Lifers", as they call themselves, don't view the issue in shades of grey.
They feel every fetus has the right to attain the age of eligibility for the death penalty.

[xchrom]

21. pro-lifers = pro death and pro poverty

there is nothing life embracing about these wretched folk.
they don't believe in life, as in a person determining their own future,owning their own body.

it's also why they are pro poverty. people with money can survive laws that restrict a woman and how she uses her own body -- poor people don't have options available to them to manipulate their circumstances to their own advantage.

more to the point -- i don't believe anyone who claims to be pro-life. not at all, liberal or conservative -- not in this day and age. they know better and are only advancing lies and superstitions about a group of cells that cannot be called a person.

[FightinNewDem]

50. "wretched folk"

Are you referring to wretched folk like Dennis Kucinich? Tony Hall? Bob Casey? All had long pro-life voting records that grew out of a genuine sense of compassion for the vulnerable.

[agincourt]

24. They're not pro life

They're pro overpopulation. The agony of children starving means nothing to them, the murder of baaaabies is a stick to beat people with. They're not to be confused with people who maybe pro-life, but want nothing to do with the corporate fascist GOP party.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

25. It's not about abortion, it's about sex.

Naughty women who have sex because they enjoy it, should be punished for their sins by being forced to have children. The rest is crappola.

[cags]

29. I'm pro-life and I support emergency contraception

I think it is only the religious pro-lifers who do not. Sadly they are the majority.

[LisaLL]

37. good for you

Thanks Cags.

[Nobody]

48. Thanks, from me too

There's a lot of misinformation going around. There are a lot of people who don't know that Plan B and other emergency contraceptives do not work if an egg is already fertilized.

They also don't know that it's ineffective if taken after 48 hours.

I'm glad you know the truth.

By the way, this level of ignorance was revealed to me in a conversation with someone I thought would know better. I brought up an article that had been featured on DU several months ago about how some pharmacies were refusing to fill prescriptions for birth control and emergency contraception.

We may not agree on much of the abortion issue, but you stand right beside me when it comes to prevention.

[wildeyed]

30. Yes, and banning abortion doesn't stop it from happening.

If it did, why does the Netherlands, which has abortion on demand, have the lowest rate of abortion in the world, and a few Latin American countries, which ban the procedure, have the highest? If people really wanted to decrease abortion, they would figure out what the Dutch are doing, and try to replicate their system.

But sadly, I think allot of this anti-abortion rhetoric is used by the repubs to subjugate women and as a wedge issue to convince the un-informed to vote for them. So say it loud and often, banning abortion doesn't stop it. What stops it is intelligent sex education and good programs that empower women. And that is the dems.

[proud patriot]

32. I think your subject line would make a great bumper sticker

:D

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Sad to say, most of the anti-choice people I know personally

are really anti-sex.

This was certainly true of my grandmother and her friends, as well as some of my elderly neighbors in Oregon. They believed that pregnancy was an appropriate punishment for "whoring around."

[ClearMessage]

34. Why are "pro-lifers" against health-care

for all when it can improve infant-mortality rates?

I wrote a short article about this. The infant mortality rate in the US is ranked #35 in the world. Countries like Taiwan, Malta, Czech Republic, Spain, have a lower infant-mortality rates than the U.S.

[LisaLL]

43. Infant Mortality

Clearmessage,

I liked your article about infant mortality in response to Republican positions! I enjoy the jujitzu of out-valuing life to the so called pro-lifers. It's true, we just have to articulate it better.

[SarahB]

45. A great observation.

Universal health care would save babies by insuring ALL women had access to prenatal care and adequate health care for their newborns.

How about federal funding for daycare that is part of the educational system (actually paying early childhood educators at the same level as elementary and secondary school teachers)? Seems like women would be less likely to abort if they knew they could afford to take care of their children by working and having affordable daycare.

So many things that could be done to improve the lives of families and children, but anti-choice people are so Hell bent in their narrowly defined agenda to even see beyond it. Stupid.

[quaker bill]

40. Because that is not their agenda

The point of outlawing abortion and restricting access to birth control is to discourage pre-marital and extra-marital sexual activity.

They see the increased availability of the means to control reproduction as responsible for the birth of the "sexual revolution". The "sexual revolution" is what they hold responsible for the decline of western morals and society. The theory is that if you can shove the genie back into the bottle all of the "problems" go away.

It is an astoundingly stupid idea.

[supernova]

41. Because its more about having more white babies

than anything. It's raciest above all.

Women of color are supposed to go to work and get a job. White women are better off staying home and popping out more little ones to purpetuate the race.

[DemBones DemBones]

51. A way to greatly decrease contraceptive failure rates is to

use two contraceptive methods, such as using a spermicidal foam in addition to a barrier method (condoms, diaphragm) or even a hormonal method (the pill, Depo-Provera, since none have a perfect failure rate in actual use.

This should be more widely known and promoted, IMO. It can be very difficult to face an unexpected pregnancy, especially when a couple has been faithfully using contraception.