PETA Warns PETsMART, "Be Nice to Mice!"

[Karmadillo]

http://www.peta.org/mc/NewsItem.asp?id=5648

Phoenix, Ariz. — In an action alert on its Web site PETA.org, PETA is urging kind people to bombard PETsMART’s corporate headquarters with calls, letters, and e-mail messages after learning that the national pet-supply chain has broken its public promise to prohibit the use of cruel glue traps, which cause animals to suffocate slowly as they try to pry their limbs and faces out of the glue.

In 1997, following a complaint from PETsMART employees that mice stuck in glue traps were suffering for days, PETsMART gave a written assurance that the company would stop using glue traps in its hundreds of stores. But PETsMART has now reneged on this promise, and the company has resumed using glue traps. When PETA asked PETsMART CEO Philip Francis to honor the company’s commitment, Francis replied that PETsMART would continue using the traps because they are "generally accepted by the public." PETA points out that one video showing the agonizing death of mice trying to free themselves as the adhesive tears off their flesh would make most people run to the phone and call for a ban.

Veterinarians in Maryland once petitioned the attorney general to ban glue traps, and animal protection groups agree that glue traps are among the cruelest pest-control devices on the market. In addition to mice and rats, glue traps capture birds, squirrels, snakes, gerbils, and even kittens. Some rescued animals have to be destroyed after their wings, toes, and lips are torn off as a result of their struggles to break free of the traps. Animals often suffer for days before succumbing to starvation or dehydration. Some animals chew off their limbs to free themselves—others die of suffocation after their faces become stuck in the glue.

"PETsMART is about to find out that these torture devices are not acceptable to any compassionate people," says PETA Wildlife Biologist Stephanie Boyles. "It is outrageous that a store that sells mice as ‘pets’ would condemn them to such a horrible death in these hideous traps."

Last month, the Fred Meyer grocery store chain, based in Portland, Ore., announced that its stores would no longer use glue traps to capture any animals after customers discovered songbirds struggling in traps set at a Fred Meyer store in Seattle.

To view PETA’s action alert urging people to demand that PETsMART stop using glue traps, please visit HelpingWildlife.com.

more...

[imenja]

1. With victims of genocide and natural disasters . . .

as well as questions about election fraud and an unjust war in Iraq, we are supposed to implement a letter writing campaign for mice? Some people have strange priorities.

[trotsky]

2. No kidding.

PETA is doing far more harm to their cause than they obviously can comprehend.

[jdj]

81. look, a conventional mouse trap is much kinder.

when I see glue-traps in the store I take them off the shelve and hide them under something or scoot them out of the way.

I believe in kindness and lessening suffering if possible.

Why make something suffer horrifically and starve to death.

I use "Mice Cubes" a humane trap that traps the mouse, then you relocate him or her. I trapped 7 this way. Another really good reason to do this is because the moment an organism dies all the parasites look for a new host, and I don't want that to be me.

[trotsky]

88. Because glue traps are very effective.

And because it's a goddamn mouse. Sorry, I don't really care how a mouse dies. It's a disease-carrying vermin and I want the most effective way to get it away from my family.

[jdj]

91. Well, I hope you aren't around when it dies, because

all it's little fleas and lice and other parasites are gonna hitch a ride onto you the moment it dies. I have worked at a vet and handled dying and dead wild animals and it is always interesting to see the parasites jump ship.

I wouldn't call a glue-trap that effective at all.

You are going to have a dying animal in your home excreting bacteria ridden bodily effusions from every possible orifice (including possibly rabies infected blood and saliva) from the time it gets stuck until the time days later when it dies. As someone who has seen all wonder of microscopic hitchhikers going about their business under a scope, this is not something I would want in my home.

[trotsky]

94. The glue traps I used were highly effective.

And guess what: fleas and lice get stuck in glue too! Cool, huh? At any rate, neither made any jumps onto me when I disposed of two dead mice in glue traps.

You kill (or capture) mice the way you want, I'll do it the way I want.

[jdj]

96. Well, most of these critters I was talking about are microscopic.

so how would you know?

I think it's really sad that you feel the need to cause unnecessary suffering and put yourself and your family at risk of contamination by all sort of undesirable entities from these dying mice, when it is unnecessary.

[trotsky]

111. Oh good grief.

You yourself recommended a conventional mousetrap because it was "much kinder." You didn't bother with the germ scare then, why bring it up now? Getting desperate for SOMETHING to base your superiority complex on?

And if it's unnecessary suffering you're worried about - think about those live traps for a moment. Do you think the mouse is comfortable and calm when trapped in a tiny box? Do you think it likes to see a big moving animal come up close to it and move it around in that box?

It's a MOUSE. Sorry, I won't feel bad if it suffers a little bit when I have to remove it from my home. And neither do you, apparently, if you prefer live traps.

[jdj]

112. there is a difference between momentary fear and

death, or agonizing days long death from starvation. And btw, the mice I trapped were pretty used to me, they were downright casual, much to my surprise.

How sad for you to accuse me of having a superiority complex.

What a depressing way to see the world.

And thanks for keeping this kicked.

[smbolisnch]

113. I really think that's the whole problem.

People seem to think that if you are concerned for the welfare of animals and call them on it when they are so calloused, you are being snotty, or acting as if you are superior. Why, I have no idea. I really don't. :eyes:

[jdj]

114. I don't think that they really think that.

I think they are just innately self-loathing and want some company of mind.

No takers.

[smbolisnch]

115. Well misery loves company.

It's not my karma, that much I know. :shrug:

[trotsky]

117. LOL, yeah, I have NO idea

why some animal rights activists get accused of having a superiority complex. I mean, the little exchange between you two was no indicator at all! :eyes:

Your opponents have a "depressing" view of the world
We're "innately self-loathing"
"Misery loves company"

Wow, yeah, I just don't understand why people don't flock to your cause. You're so warm and inviting...

[MikeDuffy]

7. So humans are the only things that matter, eh? n/t

[imenja]

8. when I'm prioritizing issues

yes, they matter more than mice. I have no problem saying so.

[benburch]

11. Yes, but...

a decent regard for the rest of the planet would cause us to attempt to minimize the cruelty our actions add to the world.

Yes, you gotta catch mice. And sometimes you even have to kill them. But if it really isn't any harder to do it painlessly, then you ought to.

If we avoid callousness in our daily actions, it will be easier to avoid it in our dealings with others.

[imenja]

14. sure, but what would be painless?

Curious here. I have no desire to inflict cruelty on any creature.

[benburch]

19. Suffocation us usually considered to be painless.

And having once passed out while working on inert gas systems, it pretty much is.

Seal them in a coffee can with a plastic lid, and drop them in the trash.

Drowning is fast, but causes the animal to panic, and is likely not painless.

[amazona]

48. oh come on !

I agree with most of your posts, and always look forward to reading them, but to me this is patently ridiculous. How on earth are you supposed to suffocate a mouse painlessly and without fear? You still have to trap it. It is still going to be waiting around for hours afraid and hungry until you find the trap in the morning and then you're supposed to somehow get hold of it to suffocate and risk getting bitten for your troubles? I'm afraid I'm not that noble.

Maybe I'm an evil terrible person but I use a trap that kills and have done with it. There is no painless way to take the life of a healthy animal, nonetheless, we cannot tolerate rodents running about free in our homes and stores.

I have no use for PETA. They wouldn't like the store any better if the mice were running around free spreading hantavirus willy-nilly all over the place.

[jdj]

83. There are such things as humane traps.

google on humane mouse-trap.

There's even a site dedicated to helping you make your own with a coat hanger and a glass baking dish, and it has a little video clip showing the mouse take the bait. Then you just take the critter down the road a bit.

[lenidog]

18. No

But when making a list of priorities rodents are pretty low on the list.

[BlueJazz]

10. Are you saying that you are incapable of doing 2 or 3 things at the..

..same time?

[imenja]

20. nope, but mice don't rate among my top twenty

or even fifty.

[BlueJazz]

32. I was halfway kidding.....actually I own a pet rat >>>>>

[imenja]

39. he's sweet

very cute. I would recommend you not lay down glue traps :)

[BlueJazz]

43. Thanks..Her name is Molly. She chases the Cat and Dog..

..around the house.. really!.

[Cronus Protagonist]

3. I caught two rats with one trap once

First and last time I used the trap. I bought it in the store and thought it seemed like it would work as I was being bothered by rats scratching around the office.

Well, two rats were crying like babies the day I came in to work after setting the trap. There were also about 6 other rats nearby squealing back at them. When I opened the vent where the trap was, there were two nasty looking rats stuck there and the other rats were looking at me through the dark, their eyes glowing an evil red color.

I took the trap out and they were well and truly stuck. They were vicious, stinking little things with long teeth that you had to make sure and stay away from. They were both exhausted from trying to get out of the trap too, so I observed them for a while.

Then it hit me. What do you do with a glue tray full of live rats?

That's the part of the trapping process that they don't tell you about when the trap's on the shelf.

The choices I could come up with were all equally nasty. Whack them over the head with something hard to put them out of their misery, let them die slowly of starvation and cry all the way through it - throwing them into the trash outside where I wouldn't hear their horrific cries. I didn't know how to poison them either.

I figured the best, most humane way would be to reduce the time they spent dying, so I sealed them and the trap inside four plastic bags and squeezed as much air out as I could without getting bitten. I figured dying of suffocation would be better than starvation and I couldn't hit them with a hammer.

I still wish I had never done it, but I can't change the past. Perhaps I can prevent the same thing happening in the future by telling my story here.

After that experience, I will never buy or use, or allow anyone I know to use a glue trap like that again.

[imenja]

6. I'm reporting you to the Hague

For crimes against .... Wait, do they have a category for rodents?

[jdj]

85. glue traps don't discriminate

I found one at work at a warehouse I worked at where a baby bird had fallen out of a nest (birds were always coming in the dock door) and gotten trapped face down in the glue trap and had died a slow agonizing death. Whomever thought of this method of trapping is one sick fucker. Maybe it was Gonzales with an s.

Anyway, if people have to use a kill trap then the conventional ones are less cruel.

Cats and Black snakes are age old methods of rodent control as well.

[benburch]

4. You know...

When I first saw a glue trap, my immediate impression was; Oh! How much less cruel than that nasty spring trap!

But, you don't need to use either; There are a variety of humane catch and release traps for mice, and in fact, you can easily and very cheaply build one of your own.

[imenja]

9. if you're trapping rats

The spring traps splat blood all over the place. But with the glue ones I suppose you have a live rat to deal with.
Am I violating moral standards by not wanting rodents in my house? If I should ever get them again, will PETA come over and gently persuade them to leave?

[benburch]

13. No, you gotta evict them.

But there are humane live traps... And even humane suffocation traps.

You see, lots of people built a better mousetrap, but nobody beat a path to their door.

[imenja]

16. you know rats will keep coming in

I had rats once at one apartment I rented in Austin, Texas. The exterminator came and laid rat bait, but once they left new ones would come back. I used to hear them racing around the attic, and fighting, really loud. They would take bites out of my fruit. It took me a while to realize what they were. I first thought they were squirrels, until I saw them. Even then I thought it was a mouse. I told my husband at the time, "I just saw a big mouse. How big?" he asked. He noted that was far too big to be a mouse. One doesn't imagine they can actually have RATS in their house. They kept coming back because the landlord refused to seal the opening in the foundation where they entered.
Basically, you can't just trap them live and put them outside. You'd have to carry them really far away.

[benburch]

21. Of course...

Out of town somewhere. Or you can always kill them humanely.

Best way to keep the rats out, BTW, is to figure out where they get in and plug it up.

[jdj]

89. Is it true what they say about steel wool?

they say they won't bite through it if you seal a hole with it, and the same is true about that insulation that is foam that you spray out of a can, it comes from Lowes and I don't know what it is called, but I have seen this demonstrated, and in the house in question once the hole was sealed with this spray insulation the rats didn't come through it, even though it has the texture of packing popcorn. I guess they don't like the taste of it.

[amazona]

51. trap and release them in your own home

I am getting very weary of people trapping and releasing in the so-called countryside. Guess what. We don't want your discarded cats, dogs, rats, mice, raccoons, squirrels, or possoms. The "countryside" where you release the animals is already fully occupied by the animals who have filled these habitats to the full, so catch and release is about as humane as putting two cocks in a cage and letting them fight it out, because someone has got to die if the habitat is at its limit...

Sigh.

Trap and release may be a great way to spread disease to new locations, and a great way for a person to be in denial that he is killing the animal, but it is not a fair answer to problem rodents, raccoons, or all the rest.

Ask your nature center for a frank and honest appraisal of the likely life expectancy of the transplanted animal.

OK, sorry, end of rant. But it does become an issue at times.

[jmowreader]

120. Catch and release traps for vermin are the wrong way to go

I know I'm not supposed to think bad of "God's creatures," but there are two kinds of disease-ridden vermin I really want to get rid of: wild rodents, and anyone associated with the Bush administration.

For rodents there are spring traps, suffocation traps, large housecats, black snakes, ferrets, all manner of rodenticides.

For Bushites there's Guantanamo, Terre Haute, Joliet, Sing Sing, San Quentin...

If you catch a live mouse and take it outside, it will come back in. Ya gotta kill the bastards. We shouldn't kill Bushites, but we do need to restrict their movement to a 6-by-9 space with an iron door.

[electric-eye]

5. So damn silly to SEE THIS and CARE, isnt' it? (Contact info here, too)

Why subject something capable of experiencing fear and pain and panic to fear and pain and panic - and a slow, torturous death?









from helpingwildlife.com:

Glue traps are one of the cruelest pest-control devices on the market today. They are completely indiscriminant, capturing not only rats and mice but birds, squirrels, snakes, gerbils and other small animals, even kittens. Animals who become stuck to these boards often suffer for days before finally succumbing to starvation or dehydration. As the animals struggle to escape, the strong adhesive rips patches of skin, fur, or feathers off their bodies. Many animals chew off their own limbs trying to free themselves, and others get their noses, mouths, or beaks stuck in the glue and suffocate.

In 1997, PETA wrote to PETsMART’s corporate headquarters and urged the company to immediately cease its widespread use of glue traps and rely instead on humane, effective, cost-efficient alternatives. PETA received PETsMART’s written assurance that the company would cease using glue traps in its hundreds of stores.



--------------


PETSMART contact info:

PETsMART.com
For questions regarding PETsMART.com:

* Email us at [e-mail]
* Call us at [phone] Monday-Friday 8 a.m. - 11p.m. or Saturday-Sunday 8 a.m. - 10 p.m. EST
* Or write to:
PETsMART.com
1989 Transit Way
PO Box 910
Brockport, NY 14420-0910



PETsMART Stores
For questions regarding PETsMART Stores:

* Email [e-mail]
* Call us at [phone] ext. 2518
* Or write to:
PETsMART, Inc.
Attention: Customer Service
19601 North 27th Avenue
Phoenix, AZ 85027



For all other related issues, please call [phone] ext. 2518.
Thank you for contacting PETsMART.

[imenja]

12. who has parakeets hiding in their house?

If you've got one, he's in a cage. If some parasitic creature has made it's way into my house, it gets trapped if I can't get rid of it any other way. Except of course for geckos. I don't mind them, so they run free. It's my cat that threatens them.
I don't go into a mouse or rat's house, so I don't want them in mine.

[electric-eye]

15. oh boy

:eyes:

[imenja]

17. why? what lives in your house?

[Solon]

31. Why do you deride action of an ANIMAL RIGHTS GROUP...

They aren't the Red Cross, or UNICEF, and while I don't necessarily agree with their tactics, there are simple solutions here. If I have a mouse or rat problem in my house, does it really take away from starving children in India if you by the better mouse trap, and donate to those two organizations above as well? Why only the concern for one and not the other? Its not about equalizing or even about prioritizing, this is something that many others can do without playing a false zero sum game about responsibilities.

[imenja]

40. because they are nuts

It's difficult to take them seriously when they prioritize this sort of thing.

[Solon]

42. I still don't get it, to say they are nuts for taking a position...

consistant with how the group was organized in the first place, makes no sense to me. Are you saying there should be no such groups at all in the world, simply because there are bigger problems out there?

[imenja]

52. I have a low opinion of PETA generally

For years it seemed that they cared only for furry cute animals that were made into furs. Lately there was the whole thing about it being cruel to eat fish. Well I'd like to start a protection organization for fruits and vegetables. They are life too. Think of all the cruelty involved when we go to our gardens to pick tomatoes or basil. It's an outrageous violation of morality.

Now doesn't that seem absurd? Why is it different for fish?

I don't wish any ill will toward mice, but if rodents infest a house or building they have to be dealt with. Maybe one shouldn't use glue traps, but the fact are they are going to be killed anyway. If they don't want that, they need to find somewhere else to live. It's not something I can get exercised about, and I don't understand anyone making it a priority. Frankly, I think it makes them look ridiculous and undermines the credibility of their organization, assuming they have any.

To me they are fundamentally bourgeois--the product of a society of plenty that has little regard for class oppression or human life
(witness gun violence, war, and the death penalty) yet places a high premium on denying ourselves that plenty (meat, etc..) I think of vegetarians I know who turned their noses up at meat in the houses of poor Brazilians. Rightly or wrongly, I associate them with the PETA crowd, especially after the press junket for fish.

[smbolisnch]

57. Because plants don't have a CNS.

It's biology. They don't feel pain and experience emotion.

[imenja]

60. do you really know that

they may transmit pain differently. Animals eat animals. So do we. That's why we have incisors. It's part of the food chain.

[smbolisnch]

62. Well yes, I do know that. It's a scientific fact.

Would you like a reference? Sheesh.

[imenja]

65. no

I really don't care. My point was if you are going to protect one food group, why not another? Obviously I object to the premise of the whole thing.

[smbolisnch]

69. One group feels pain and loss. The other, doesn't. It's very simple!

eom

[Solon]

61. That makes some sense...

as far as PETA itself is concerned, but your comparing Animals, specifically vertabrates with Plants is absurd. Plants do not have a nervous system, and cannot feel pain. I mean if you wanted to critisize there particular credibility, I'm not saying they a perfect, but like I said, they are a group dedicated to animals, that is there focus. As far as vegetarians and such, I'm not one, nor do I intend to be one, but I would prefer for my food to be killed cleanly and without undue suffering. This has practical as well as moral purposes, I prefer the animals in question to be happy and healthy as well as killed cleanly, for my health as well.

This holds true with any action we should make, we cannot stop making tracks in life, especially against others, of any life form, but I prefer to make those steps as light as possible. If I want to get rid of mice or rats in my house, I would prefer to do it as humanely as possible, alive if possible as well, preferable really. As far as the fish statement, I haven't really looked at that, but I avoid most fish, many have too much mercury to mess with my health. I try to decrease my heavy metal intake, thank you very much. :)

[imenja]

67. I can agree with all of that

Mass animal raising, particularly of poultry, is not only inhumane, it's unhealthy. Free range meats and poultry taste much better, which is one of the reasons Brazil is beginning to eclipse the US in meat exports.
Does PETA concentrate on such issues? I only hear about the odd things--fish and mice.

[Solon]

76. Maybe its the odd things that are just reported...

Go to their website, see what they focus on, and then make a judgement, as far as I know, they oppose factory farming and other methods of food production that are harmful to both the animals and humans.

[imenja]

87. PETA action alerts, nothing about mass production

other than those killed under religious conditions (Kosher?). The main page says "meat is murder." That seems to be the philosophy. You and I are murders.


http://www.peta.org/alert/index.asp


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[smbolisnch]

92. Do think that animals going to slaughter are treated humanely? nt

[imenja]

100. did I say that?

In fact, I said the opposite in another post.
This response was in a context of a discussion of what PETA works on.
You are over-reacting here.

[smbolisnch]

101. Not directly, but it seems as if you have a real problem

with animal rights. I just don't understand it. Just trying to figure it out, as I find it strange that's all. :shrug:

[imenja]

104. As I said

It's a question of priorities, how one uses his or her time for political causes. I'm not going to write letters to my congressmen or petsmart over mice, as you also indicated you would not do.
This discussion has definitely run it's course.

[smbolisnch]

107. No, I didn't say that..... I don't budget my compassion.

[jdj]

95. They have done stings on Tyson and Pilgrim's Pride very recently

They have also put pressure publicly on organizations like KFC that have their own coops to give the animals more room, which is controversial in the animal welfare field because many feel PETA is reformist by even focusing on this.

Did you know that PETA stands for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals? (That includes human animals by the way). And they take on any variety of issues as they are presented, kind of like DU, they are a big tent org.

There are hundreds of other animal rights orgs. in this country that specialize in one area, like unnecessary medical testing on animals, a couple of groups that do just that are Physicians for Responsible Medicine and the National Anti-Vivisection Society.

PETA pretty much does all kinds of advocacy to lessen the suffering of animals on this planet. How any one could oppose this is beyond me. Be neutral or apathetic I can understand, but to support unnecessary suffering, well, I can't comprehend that.

[imenja]

102. I'm glad to hear that

It wasn't included on their action page.

[smbolisnch]

56. I think what is more "nuts"

is someone who can't seem to comprehend someone's concern for all living creatures, and then proceeds to mock it. How does it change your life? It is as simple as purchasing a humane trap. Nothing more. Why make it into such a huge issue? :shrug:

[imenja]

64. change the trap then

I can agree to changing the trap, if you really think it makes a big difference. The mice are going to die anyway. I have no objection to taking such things into concern when one needs to get rid of rodents and certainly don't wish to cause pain to any creature. I've never used such traps, though I have used spring ones. The rodents died nonetheless.

To make it a political priority when thousands of people are dying in the Congo and elsewhere in the world, to concentrate one's efforts on that to the exclusion of the kind of widespread injustice that pervades the world--that I don't understand.

[smbolisnch]

68. Well, I am concerned for both humans and animals of course.

To make it a political priority when thousands of people are dying in the Congo and elsewhere in the world, to concentrate one's efforts on that to the exclusion of the kind of widespread injustice that pervades the world--that I don't understand.

I really never thought of my politics as being prioritized :shrug:
I care about X,Y and Z. None more than the other. If it matters to me, it matters, period.

[imenja]

70. well if you're going to write letters

you only have time to do so much. I write my congresspeople about a number of issues, but I'm not going to put mice on that list.

[smbolisnch]

72. No kidding. nt

[imenja]

73. that is what their press release asks

and the attached article. That was the motivation for my response, not some deep-seeded hatred of mice.

[Sterling]

34. Yes people think they sound cool when the show us how tough they are

It's like the people who go on and on about eating meat on the PETA threads. Why someone would openly show lack of care at the suffering of other living beings is beyond me. They might as well wear a sign saying "I am a huge asshole".

[lenidog]

22. I was thinking the same thing

I have heard of houses being infested with rats, mice, insects even snakes but I have never seen a parakeet infestation.

[benburch]

24. I have a friend who has like 50 birds.

One or two are always on escapee status.

[Solon]

35. I know...

my sister's parakeet got caught in one of those sticky fly traps that hang from the ceiling. He lost some feathers and hated the bath, but he's ok(thankfully).

[imenja]

74. wouldn't it have been worse in a spring trap?

the little fellow would have been dead immediately and you couldn't unstick him.

[smbolisnch]

75. I might get hit with a baseball bat or fall in quick sand.

I also might not die immediately either way. Can you guarantee that I would??

If you disagree with the issue, why not just let it go?

[imenja]

77. geesh

I was simply commenting on the little parakeet. I'm glad he survived.

[Solon]

78. It would have been harder for him to fly into one of those.

:)

[imenja]

80. hadn't thought of that

I'm all for parakeet rights. :loveya:

[electric-eye]

25. Maybe the trap was laid for a rat but a parakeet found it first?

who knows?

the trap is the issue, not what its caught, right?

[lenidog]

27. I know

I am am guilty of a very bad joke.

[Sterling]

28. Animal suffering is high on my list, if I had a "list"

Fortunately my caring for other beings is not a contests with a top 20 list of winners.

I use the humane traps and when the problem is too big I will use poison but glue traps IMHOP are the worst way to handle the situation.

[Berserker]

45. To Bad they are not

good to eat!

[electric-eye]

46. Wow, no feelings for them at all

you're so tough

[smbolisnch]

50. Thank you for posting this.

Some people are just so heartless. :cry: I don't care if it's a rat, a gerbil, a squirell or a bird. These animals all have a CNS and feel pain and experience emotion.

To say that you can't waste time on trying to do the humane thing dealing with rats when there are natural disasters is like saying you can't be an environmentalist and a humanitarian at the same time. Give me a break. :eyes:

So flame away.

[MikeDuffy]

23. "A nation's progress can be judged by how they treat their animals."

-- Gandhi

[electric-eye]

26. Applause!!!

DU gets scary when the topic of protecting animals comes up.

always baffles me

[Forkboy]

33. doesn't baffle me anymore

DU has a definate mean streak,and PETA threads draw them out like moths to a flame.

Sad that people have concern lists :puke:

[Jesus H. Christ]

29. That's not a nice way to handle snake food.

nt

[Sterling]

36. Feeding them to a snake is much better actually.

Less suffering and it actually helps the food chain work.

[Solon]

38. Similar to letting spiders into your house...

a great way to keep the fly population in the house down. Better than "Bombing" it for that reason, safer too.

[Feron]

30. A better move..

would be to educate the public on the cruelty of glue traps. If nobody buys them then stores will not stock them. Sending a press release to PetSmart and then putting it up on your website really isn't helping your cause.

[Sterling]

44. Pet smart is more likely to be responsive.

since they sell pet mice it makes sense that some of their customers would care about something like this. In fact I think they have made an effort to inform the public, this story got your attention, if you did not know before now you do.

Even here on "progressive" DU there are people who take some sort of strange pride in being indifferent to animal suffering. To them it is simply us v them so why consider animals in the terms we associate with people. To me it is the sign of an immature person, spiritually speaking.

[smbolisnch]

58. There was a whole thread about this in the AR group.

You make a good point.

[MrSlayer]

37. Forgive me for not weeping over the plight of vermin.

There are real humanitarian crises going on throughout the world and these people are worried about rats? I can't imagine how much money the organization wastes on shit like this.

[Sterling]

41. When I read posts like this I remember why humans are fucked.

Why we can't stop killing other people, animals, anything that is inconvenient.

[LisaL]

49. Geez, live in a mice infested home then.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[jdj]

99. I did, caught 7 mice with a humane trap.

Can you believe, and this is embarassing, that for the longest time, I thought I only had one mouse. I saw one that seemed slightly darker one day, and said, well, now I have two, I must get some humane traps.

They were cheap as hell $7.50 for three of them, put some bird food in them and they worked like a charm.

[Forkboy]

55. Well you're for killing humans too

Unless your DP stance has changed.

[LisaL]

47. I had mice infestations in my apartment.

Mice are nasty. I don't care how PetsMart kills them.
:eyes:

[bleedingheart]

53. Let's see if we can get the humans to stop killing humans first

[Forkboy]

54. Why can't we work on both?

:shrug:

[smbolisnch]

59. If it isn't political, it seems like some people could care less.

I just don't understand the rationing of compassion with some people here. :eyes:

[bleedingheart]

63. to be honest I don't think you can work on both realistically

if people don't view the death of Iraqi children as a problem ...then they surely aren't going to care that the mice in their basement are dying a slow death.

The people who care about animals generally care about people...no battle there...

but...the others...well they have to learn to respect other people before they can even consider caring about a mouse.

[Solon]

66. Lead by example then...

I have found that those who lack empathy with animals have problems with empathy period. In some cases this is hopeless as a battle, its like that had a "moral lobotomy" of sorts where they cannot connect their suffering with any other animal, including Humans. The point being that if anything compassion can come to those who see others display it, not all mind you, but some. If someone askes why you bought a live trap instead of the glue trap, explain it, and maybe, just maybe, they will think on your reasons. It doesn't ever have to be more complicated than that.

[Kitka]

71. You can do both. I spend much of my free time working on

human rights issues. But it takes less than a minute to fire off an email to petsmart. You don't have to undertake a campaign to win hearts and minds toward animal compassion, just put economic pressure on this particular company. You can do both.

[jdj]

103. listen, friend,

the truth is that people who come up with the whine that "you don't care 'bout people because you care about animals" are basically full of shit.

The truth that I unfortunately rediscover time and time again is that they throw this out to put you on the defensive and hide the fact that generally speaking, they don't give a DAMN about either one. Compassionate people are compassionate across the board. Kudos for your work of all kinds.

I don't think compassion is species specific. Animals certainly don't limit their compassion to only their species, as they have helped and saved human animals time and again.

[Placebo]

79. Who the HELL cares about mice???

My cat kills them. And I hope she kills more.

Will PETA kill my cat for killing mice? :wtf:

What does it matter if my cat does it or a glue strip? :shrug:

[Solon]

82. There is a difference between a cat snapping a mouses neck...

and a trap designed to keep them glued to it till they die. Another thing is that ridiculous notion about what PETA would do to your cat, makes no sense, and adds nothing to a conversation about what HUMANS do. Cats do it on instinct, humans by choice, and it also makes no sense for a store that sells mice as pets to kill them in such a way.

[LisaL]

86. You are clueless as to how cats hunt.

They do not kill their pray immediately, it can go on for a long time. They let it go, they catch it again, they let it go, they catch it again.
Do you get the drift by now?
The goal is to exhaust the pray so it doesn't bite the cat.
I guess cats are not up to PETA standards, are they?
:eyes:

[Solon]

93. Mine don't play with them...

They just kill them, I know, I've seen mine bite them in half, they do play with flies though, go figure. :shrug:

[LisaL]

84. LOL. Cats kill them slowly too. They like to play with them a little

before they kill them. At least the good hunting cats do.
My cat used to bring me dead mice as presents. They are very proud they kill them.

[Placebo]

90. Mine does too!

She likes to carry it in her mouth for a while, then drop it and chase it down again, and do that a few times before she breaks its neck I guess.

[Solon]

98. So I guess you wouldn't have done what I had to do once...

In our backyard I found a bird with its chest ripped open, I don't know if my dogs did it or the cats, didn't really care either. It was alive, and I remember its pitiful chirping as it is slowly breathing its lasts breaths. So I did what I thought anyone would do in my position, I put on some rubber gloves, picked it up, and snapped its neck, as cleanly as possible. But I guess not everyone would care to do something like that.

[jdj]

105. well, um, a lot of people posting here.

when we are young, we learn who (or "what") matters, and who doesn't.

It's programming, pure and simple. You can get in alot of trouble not caring about stuff you're supposed to care about, and for caring about stuff you have been conditioned not to care about.

It's social conditioning, and Buddhism in particular helps teach people to free themselves from conditioned behavior. Lack of compassion isn't innate to the species.

PETA is doing this not only to move PetSmart, who ought to know better, but to help educate people about the cruelty of glue traps. So a resounding thank you to every mouse-hater that has helped keep this thread kicked to the top so more people can read about how cruel these traps are.

[meisje]

97. I say fuck the mice and PETA

[jdj]

108. thanks for the kick!

I thank you, and the mice thank you.

(you have just fallen into a very sticky PETA trap.)

[smbolisnch]

109. lol

[gatorboy]

106. So has PETA ever gone after Fear Factor?

I'm still amazed at the stuff they get away with. Especially since I read that a few years ago a woman served jail time for smashing cockroaches under her high heels for some strange fetish video she starred in...

[jdj]

110. I really don't like what they do on that show at all.

It's a definite regression culturally, but they probably understand that this will run it's course.

I can't speak for PETA as I am not a member...the people who do that kind of work have my utmost respect. To be confronted with images and instances of animal cruelty on a daily basis just wrecks me, I can't do it, though for a long time I was a member, this was pre-internet when the horrible graphic pictures would come in the mail. I get to a point where I can't function. Right now I am going back to school to get my paralegal to be of some use to the world in an animal rights or environmental way, but for the folks who go into the testing labs and factoryn farms and get the video footage that PETA uses to prosecute these people, my hat is off to them.

[Frangible]

116. I find it ironic

They are worried about the welfare of mice, by arguing that the traps can also catch kittens. Yet, cats will toy with and kill mice in a very long, drawn out fashion.

Shoot them in the head with an air rifle while they're trapped if you want a fast kill. I haven't seen any trap that is quick and painless. Nor are cats or their natural predators.

(no mice here. my dog would get them, anyway. and it wouldn't be pleasant.)

[xultar]

118. I'll write a letter to PetSmart. Thanks for the info. X n/t

[Gothic Sponge]

119. Another "let's bash PETA thread"

:eyes:

[Karmadillo]

121. Actually,

it's a look at the good work PETA does thread.

[Midlodemocrat]

122. Locking

This thread has become a flamefest.

Thank you for your understanding.