Suppose, just suppose, god *actually did* say that....

[ChairOne]

... homosexuality was bad/evil/anathema/hell-going/whatever. He says this (by supposition) in perfectly clear terms, to everyone all at the same time, blahblahblah. There is, by supposition, no mistaking or misunderstanding god's thoughts on the matter.

Under this supposition, what is your response? Roughly speaking, do you (a) move over the free republic, or, (b) tell god to fuck off?

Or to put it another way: Do we not like fundies because of their *reasoning*, or because of their *premisses*? (Aside from other reasons to not like them...)

Just watching some late-night hermeneutics/born-again/gimme-ur-money show... in mute amazement at the power god has over people...

[Bluebear]

1. And away we go....

[ChairOne]

2. Uh-oh - has this been asked before?

doh.

But have you seen these shows I'm talking about? They're amazing! In the sense of "craptacular"....

[Bluebear]

3. Benny Hinn is my favorite

The way he "heals" people who immediately collapse and the audience is beside itself. Yikes.

[ChairOne]

4. He's *awesome! LOL His hair rules....

Such shows are like Iron Chef, or Dance 360 for me - so stupid they're fun. LOL - I guess this is what I get for not going out drinking tonight....

[Bluebear]

6. Great idea.... Iron Evangelist!!!!

You see there's two TV faith healers and they compete on style points, hairdo, how much money they can raise in an hour....

[ChairOne]

8. ROFL - that's awesome! /eom

[timtom]

21. I have to admit

that using Benny Hinn as an example of one who believes in God is a bit like using Jeffrey Dahmer as an example of the gay community.

[0rganism]

5. "amazement at the power god has over people..."

Well He is a god, after all. You should be amazed. Right?

If a known god were evil, I would feel no compunction to love him. Perhaps, if forced at gunpoint, I would pay my respects; but it would be a prayer conceived in resentment, born in fear, and dwelling in dishonor. I would pray for the strength of Satan in Paradise Lost, to rise up against an unwholesome overgod.

[ChairOne]

9. LOL - I meant that in more of a Nietzschean sense.... /eom

[0rganism]

12. "Against the Throne and Monarchy of God"

All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?
That Glory never shall his wrath or might
Extort from me.

(John Milton/Paradise Lost, 1:106-111)

[ChairOne]

14. lol - Geneaology: "Man would rather will nothingness, than not will"

n/t

[magellan]

7. Easy

I'd ask how much Bush paid him to say that.

[Fiona]

10. I'd suspect

god was a latent homosexual.

On edit... now that I think about it.... he couldn't even "do" Mary properly... hadda send a surrogate.

[Az]

11. My response would be that god obviously is evil and must be opposed

So put me down for option (b).

[ChairOne]

13. I'm with you. /eom

Part of the point of the question was to tease apart the pieces of disagreement between us and the fundies. A lot of the time, for example, people here seem to emphatically take the line "god would NEVER say such a thing" (imagine a suitably aghast facial expression).

Part of such a response is a concession to the fundies, of the form "we ought to do what god says". The hypothetical responder above is bascially agreeing to that, and digging their heels in on exactly what god says.

I don't find much to respect in that train of thought - and the question posed by this thread shows why.

[aquart]

18. See? Now we're back to WHICH god?

I don't think there's a word about gays in the gospels. Nothing in the New Testament.

This is Jehovah stuff.

To get this garbage they go to one of the most bigoted and distorted books on earth, MY Old Testament. And if you REALLY want to follow those rules exactly, honey, go get a knife and Betty Bowers' page on Do It Yourself Circumcision. And let's not forget the food laws. No ham. No bacon. Deal with it. NO SHRIMP.

I also find it damn funny how they tend not to bring up "If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both adulterer and adulteress shall be put to death."

Cherry picking the Old Testament is just plain crap.

[jbnow]

15. Can't imagine god saying it

I mean if god said homosexuality is evil or that he hates blue cars or bananas I'd talk it over with him but I have no reason to imagine he hates any of those things.

I just have no reason to believe god would ever say such a thing. Some throw out quotes from the Old testament but honestly how do they decide what to take as literal truth. Why aren't we banning shell fish eaters and making menstruating women go sit alone in an unclean room and so on? We think the rest is crap but oh he meant it about homosexuals? It's all so stupid how they decided it that is some divine truth revealed.

Now...does he hate the homosexual animals too or just people. I know the bible doesn't mention him hating gay wildlife...in fact he doesn't seem to mind lesbians either since he only talks about men laying down with men. So...is this theoretical god hating any homosexuality or just the ones the OT mentions? Cause I want to know just who to hate to be holy.

[ChairOne]

17. Already answered in #13..... /eom

[jbnow]

19. What is already answered in 13?

I didn't dig in my heels and say "god would never say that". I said I can't imagine it but I would be glad to talk to him about it.

I don't confuse churches with god and they do not speak for god.

I know a church will say god hates that and I would gladly tell them to fuck off if I paid attention to what they said.

But I would never turn down a chance to talk to god. I'd sure have a lot of questions....just like I would if he said sparrows or couches are evil. I can't imagine him saying that either, but I'd hear him out.

[ChairOne]

20. Nevermind /eom

[samwisefoxburr]

16. I've though about this before...

...but in a more general sense. If God were proven to exist beyond a reasonable doubt, I would tell him to fuck off. But, if it were Jesus on the other hand, I would talk to Him and get His thoughts on current events. I truly believe that Jesus would hang with me, than any fundamentalist Christian (and I'm a Satanist).

I've also thought about other hypothetical ideas regarding Christianity, more along comedy. For instance, what if the Holy Bible was a prank by a group of Jewish or Roman comedy writers to write a laughably contradictory book and see if anyone takes it seriously.

[cornermouse]

22. Do you go out and kill witches and soothsayers?

(I hope not because that would be murder.)
Do you eat pork?
If you're female, do you cut your hair?

You know, you could crawl all over, around, and through these things, but my opinion is that they are nothing more than not always accurate pieces of a picture; not the whole and complete picture that we are supposed to try to see and understand.

In short, you do what you know to be right and you will find that you don't have to choose between (a) or (b).

I personally don't like fundies because of their new found habit of picking out what they believe and then trying to put it into a law that we also must obey.

[yellowdogintexas]

24. not a new found habit

they have been doing it for ever

[cornermouse]

26. I stand corrected.

And rightly so. :)

[baby_mouse]

23. I would ask him why n/t

[Nimrod]

25. I'd point to MY little friend...

He's a four-inch tall green chap named Edgar who likes to ride around on my shoulder. He wears a tiny little top hat, it's pretty cool really.

Anyway, HE says who you go to bed with doesn't matter in the least. Since I personally consider both his and God's opinions to be of equal believability, I've decided to take Edgar's opinion to heart.

Oh, and by the way. Edgar never tells me to give him money. Maybe a beer once in awhile, but what are friends for?

[LizW]

27. I'd demand his/her/its opinion on other issues

Like war and poverty and famine and genocide and cancer and AIDS.

If he/she/it didn't also demounce those things, then I would denounce him/her/it.

If he/she/it DID denounce those things, I would as why he/she/it didn't use some of his/her/its supposedly limitless power to alleviate the suffering caused by those things.

So, I think my answer is probably b.