Who is your all-time favorite President of the USA and why?

[WI_DEM]

My all-time favorite is Jimmy Carter. Not because he was the best president (but he was better than some people think and his standing has been steadily improving). He just embodies everything that is good about our country if we have a man who believes in a "government as good and full of love as the American people themselves." He has never disappointed me as a human being/humanitarian. Without doubt our greatest former president--ever.

[justinsb]

1. You know

Carter could still run again. Just a thought.

[The Magistrate]

2. Mr. Lincoln Is My Favorite, Sir

He seems to me the very highest expression of what a democratic politician and leader can and ought to be. Reading his speeches and writings never fails to move and impress me profoundly.

[andyhappy]

7. where are the lincolns?

he has to have descendents right?

did they just start making cars and get out of politics or what?

and what about Washingtons relatives? Or Thomas Jeffersons?

[coda]

65. Tom Hanks is a descendant of Lincoln.

Read that the other day. Talk about somebody with broadbased appeal.

[Rhiannon12866]

83. President Lincoln had four sons. But only one, the eldest, lived

to adulthood. The others all died in childhood. All this, besides having her husband murdered in front of her, more than explains the reason that his wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, was considered a little unbalanced. A tragic family saga. Robert Todd Lincoln lived until 1926, but I have no idea if he had heirs. He became a lawyer and served under President Garfield, nothing to do with cars.:-(

Thomas Jefferson's wife died young. He had two daughters, though he was reputed to have had children by some of his slaves. I don't know if any of them have ever come forward.

George Washington had no children. He had two step children, Jack and Patsy, by his wife, Martha Dandridge Custis, who I believe he outlived (the children), but no biological children. He also raised some of his step grandchildren, who he loved as his own. According to my grandmother, we are related to Martha Custis, but I've never found any hard evidence of this, though I've never seriously researched it.

I don't know why I know this, but I am interested in history, so I guess this stuck with me, I hope that this answers some of your questions about our most important forefathers.:shrug:

[liberalpragmatist]

109. Robert Lincoln had kids

However, the family was never that prolific and the last direct descendent of Lincoln died in 1985.

Interestingly, Robert Lincoln was involved in politics too and was Secretary of War. He was offered the Republican nomination for President many times, but while he said he would have liked to be President, he always rejected it because, as he said, he'd never have been able to live up to the expectations. He wouldn't merely be judged on his own terms, but always as "the son of Abraham Lincoln."

[Rhiannon12866]

133. I'm sure that he did and thanks for the info

It's really too bad that they all died out, though I have read that Robert Lincoln was not someone we'd necessarily agree with.:shrug:

[HamdenRice]

138. About those Jefferson slaves ...

You wrote, though he was reputed to have had children by some of his slaves. I don't know if any of them have ever come forward.

Actually the controversy over the black descendants of Jefferson has been raging for years -- surprised you would wonder whether they have come forward.

Basically the Hemmings family have claimed for over 200 years that they are descendants of Jefferson, and they were dismissed by both the Jefferson family (which is still well organized) and by academic historians.

Then about five years ago, DNA testing proved that the Hemmings were descended from either Jefferson or his brother (testing had something to do with the Y chromosome, I think) -- and since the brother did not live with Sally Hemmings, this pretty much proved that they were Jefferson's descendants. Even the Jefferson family has finally admitted as much. African American historian Annette Gordon-Reed has written about the controversy and how the dismissive attitude toward the Hemmings family was rooted in racist presumptions.

[baba]

10. True.

The Republicans love to claim Lincoln, but he would be a Democrat today.

[bemildred]

12. I second that opinion. nt

[Yupster]

68. Im not a fan

of Lincolon's. I rank him pretty poorly.

[Rhiannon12866]

81. Hello, my friend. I agree, Mr. Lincoln was brilliant

and the very best of writers. Have you read "Why Lincoln Matters" by Mario Cuomo? I have a friend who has it and I'm anxious to borrow it. I saw Governor Cuomo on Chris Matthews and he said that he wrote a State of the Union address, as Lincoln would deliver it, today, addressing present day issues, and that's what I am most anxious to read.:shrug:

But, as you know, I also admire President Carter for his profound decency and optimism. I think that history will judge him much more kindly than present-day pundits.:-)

[Mountainman]

3. FDR

The New Deal and his leadership in WWII are the two things I think made him great.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

4. FDR

[Warpy]

5. FDR

who inherited chaos and despair and turned it into the most thriving economy the world has ever known by giving working people the best deal they've ever had in this country.

He's been criticised by quite a few on the left for doing as little as he could to avoid revolution, but the fact remains that he stood up to the rich, the powerful, and the corporate and he did it.

And they never forgave him for it.

[Kukesa]

92. Another vote for FDR.

My grandparents had a framed photo of him in their living room.

[Raenelle]

104. Another FDR vote.

He led the US through the Great Depression and World War II--and we survived it as a democracy and emerged a great power.

Plus he was a great Democrat, he knew the Dems should stand by and with the common guy. Unions flourished under him. The free world respected us, depended on us. And he did it all with style and optimism and generosity.

[Kukesa]

108. Oh, how I long for all of that. Do you think we'll see it

again in our life times?

Maybe the people will rise . . .

[Rhiannon12866]

137. I agree. FDR was a great man. I named my pet mouse, Franklin,

after him, LOL! My favorite president in my lifetime remains Jimmy Carter, but I admire FDR greatly, for all the reasons you stated. He totally turned this country around, in desperate times.:-)

[baba]

6. I've never experienced anyone other than Clinton.

I was pretty young when Jimmy Carter was in office, but I do love him.

[stanwyck]

31. Jimmy was demonized

for wanting us to think about the difficult subjects: the environment, energy, education, healthcare, peace in the Middle East.
And he also wanted less excess in Washington, D.C. After watching the Roman Circus that is the Bush inauguration, I couldn't help but think of Jimmy's call for a more reserved, and less costly, approach to the pomp and circumstance of the presidency. He didn't need the trappings. He walks it like he talks it. He's the real deal. A true Christian who helps the less fortunate and works for peace.
Bush is a tiny, tiny man compared to Jimmy.

[Rhiannon12866]

84. Thank you. I agree with everything that you said.

:-)

[sportndandy]

8. Truman.

Great president, a little paranoid about communists, and blowing up the japanese was a mistake. But overall, the Buck did stop with Truman. Thanks for givin 'em hell, Harry.

[baba]

14. He dropped the bomb twice.

One time was a mistake-the second time?

[T Town Jake]

89. And he was completely justified...

...both times.

In peace, he continued FDR's wonderful legacy with the Fair Deal, desegregation of the military, pushed for Civil Rights, and fought for legislation that helped build the middle class, and supported blue collar workers and labor.

Harry Truman was a great American, a wonderful President, and a proud, genuine Democrat - my kind of Democrat. All of which is more than I can say for his latter-day horseshit detractors...

[bvar22]

97. There are MANY competent, patriotic,

high ranking military officers serving in the Pacific AT THAT TIME who disagree with you.

[T Town Jake]

100. Oh really? Show me ONE...

(n/t)

[bvar22]

102. How about Dwight Eisenhower?

If you check your History book, you will find that he was a 5 star general at the time. Here is what HE said!

"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."

- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380

http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

There are MANY, MANY High Ranking officers who agreed with Dwight.
My father was one of them!

You need to study up some!

[T Town Jake]

103. For starters, Ike served in Europe, not the Pacific...

...now, and again, show me ONE of these "MANY, MANY High Ranking officers" who served in the Pacific theater of war who disagreed with the dropping of the bomb? Just ONE will do...

"Study up some," indeed...

[bvar22]

105. Like I said, my father.

Col. USMC, Pacific, 1941-1945.
Served in the Occupation of Japan.
I was fortunate to have known him, because he was able to give me the facts that had been sanitized out of the Textbooks.

Open your eyes, do some work with Google.


you said:
"...now, and again, show me ONE of these "MANY, MANY High Ranking officers" who served in the Pacific theater of war who disagreed with the dropping of the bomb? Just ONE will do..."

I say:
LOL, Eisenhower not a good enough authority on WWII for you?

[T Town Jake]

107. Oh, my eyes are wide open alright...

...but I didn't get my history lessons from the University of Google, like so many "historians" around here seem to have done. Lo and behold, I actually went to a real college and sat in real classes with real live professors...we had them there syllabuses, even!

No, Eisenhower's opinion is not a good enough authority for me when it comes to Operations in the Pacific Theater. It would be like taking Douglas MacArthur's views on Normandy as anything other than just an informed opinion--Eisenhower wasn't facing the day to day war in the Pacific. And the "opinion," such as it is, of some obscure Marine Bird Colonel doesn't cut much mustard with me - or anyone else who knows what the hell they're talking about when it comes to history - either.

Now, let's try this again: Can you name me ONE "high-ranking" officer who served in the Pacific who publicly disagreed with decision to drop the bomb? You have yet to do so...

[bvar22]

116. Do you know what Gen MacArthur....

..said about the use of Atomic Bombs on civilian populations?
I do.
And now, so will you.

One more time:

Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."

Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.

For your educational pleasures:
http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

BTW: by 1945, Eisenhower was the Supreme Allied Commander! You know, MacArthur's boss.

This "obscure Marine Bird Colonel" you disparage actually stood on the site in Hiroshima, and cried at the useless and unnecessary civilian loss. He was a warrior, and MANY, MANY of his fellow warriors shared his view. I've met them, and their opinion cuts more mustard with me than the armchair revisionists.

Looks like the University of Google trumps your "real classes with real live professors"
Crow is more tender if boiled for a couple of hours!!

[T Town Jake]

118. Ohhh, lookee here; I step out for a bite to eat...

...and return to talk of eating crow - too bad that the main course is really horseshit, and I'm not the one with it on my plate...

1. Putting aside the dubious nature of the website you linked to, let's concentrate on Douglas MacArthur and his "interviewee" Norman Cousins for a sec. Cousins was a passionate advocate for nuclear disarmament right up until the day he died in 1990. Nothing wrong with that, per se, however that "proof quote" of yours, as proof, isn't much when placed in the proper context of the two particulars involved.
Indeed, to the extent that he came to these conclusions in hindsight, MacArthur certainly wasn't of the opinion at the time of the actual bombing that the war was on the verge of "ending." Indeed, he was hip-deep in the planning of Operation Downfall, which would have involved 5 million men, two separate - and massive - invasions of the Japanese Home Islands - and hundreds of thousands of American casualties, as witness here:

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/operation_olympic.htm

and here:

http://www.waszak.com/japanww2.htm

and yet another one (all for your "educational pleasures," of course):

http://www.ww2pacific.com/downfal0.html

As horrific as American combat casualties would've been, the toll on the Japanese population would've been far worse, as any credible, legitimate historian will be happy to tell you.

2. Eisenhower was the "Supreme Allied Commander" in The European Theater of Operations; he had no authority whatsoever over either MacArthur or any other officer or combat force in the Pacific, period. Here's another handy link for your "educational pleasures":

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/ike/ike.htm

Next?

[bvar22]

120. Look, I've given you MacArthur and Eisenhower,

and you continue to stick your fingers in your ears and holler NANANANANANANANAN I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!

ALL military opinions in this matter will be in hindsight because the military was NOT informed of the decision to use Atomic Weapons on civilian targets.

You stated that Truman was justified in using the Bombs on Japan. You are entitled to your opinion. Some agree with you.

I have stated that there are high ranking military officers who fought in the Pacific who disagree with you.I have offered direct quotes from Eisenhower and from people very close to MacArthur that state that this was unnecessary.

Are you going to continue to INSIST that NO high ranking military officers in the Pacific disagrees with you?
If you are willing to disagree with MacArthur and Eisenhower, then there is not much more to say.
I'm sure you believe you know more than them.

[Moe Levine]

126. just because people witness an event doesn't mean they

know what happened, and more importantly, why it happened.

As for MacArthur, his statements are about as self-serving as one could imagine, coming, as they did, after Korea. He really demonstrated great judgment in that war :<)

[bvar22]

127. Actually, according to the people close to MacArthur,

His many personal statements about the unnecessary use of Atomic Weapons began IMMEDIATELY after the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. His personal pilot wrote that in his memoirs.

Self serving or not, his analysis of the ability of Japan to mount a military defense was spot on. Truman's statements of 1/2Million allied casualties was BOGUS,and conjured up a myth that still stands to justify the using of Atomic Weapons on the civilian population of Japan. Commanders of all the branches of Military Operation in the Pacific were in agreement on this. Declassified documents confirm that the military assessmant of projected casualities was 40,000, if an invasion was actually necessary at all!
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

General Douglas MacArthur, Commander of US Army forces in the Pacific, stated on numerous occasions before his death that the atomic bomb was completely unnecessary from a military point of view: "My staff was unanimous in believing that Japan was on the point of collapse and surrender."

Even before the Hiroshima attack, American air force General Curtis LeMay boasted that American bombers were "driving them back to the stone age." Henry H. ("Hap") Arnold, commanding General of the Army air forces, declared in his 1949 memoirs: "It always appeared to us, atomic bomb or no atomic bomb, the Japanese were already on the verge of collapse."

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

Shortly after "V-J Day," the end of the Pacific war, Brig. General Bonnie Fellers summed up in a memo for General MacArthur: "Neither the atomic bombing nor the entry of the Soviet Union into the war forced Japan's unconditional surrender. She was defeated before either these events took place."

Admiral Leahy, Chief of Staff to presidents Roosevelt and Truman, later commented:
"It is my opinion that the use of the barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan ... The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons ... My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.


Admiral Ernest King, US Chief of Naval Operations
"If the United States had been willing to wait, the effective naval blockade would, in the course of time, have starved the Japanese into submission through lack of oil, rice, medicines, and other essential materials."

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

[Moe Levine]

124. BS

one must learn to separate BS from reality

[bvar22]

128. Right back at you.

I support my position with facts, quotes, links, and recorded history.

You, on the other hand, have supplied.....exactly what beyond your opinion ?

[Moe Levine]

123. Truman would have gotten 70% of vote against Bush

[Warpy]

36. He signed the NSA into existence

thus creating a shadow government whose power has grown and which has now taken all accountability away from itself by being immune to oversight from Congress or the people. This is the worst thing done to our system in history.

He also signed treaties favoring the French in Southeast Asia, setting the stage for the inexorable march into Vietnam.

He dropped the bomb twice on civilian populations that were of no military use whatsoever, just because some evil men wanted to see what a bomb would do to a "pristine target."

Much of the international misery this country has caused over the past 50 years has been due to these incredibly bad decisions.

[el_gato]

9. JFK of course

[mrstick]

15. i disagree

I think starting Vietnam and almost bringing us to war with the Russians over the Cuban Missile crisis should take him out of the running

[el_gato]

29. your display of ignorance is astouding

Chronology of U.S -Vietnam Relations

1930
Indochinese Communist Party, opposed to French rule, organized by Ho Chi Minh and his followers.

1932
Bao Dai returns from France to reign as emperor of Vietnam under the French.

September, 1940
Japanese troops occupy Indochina, but allow the French to continue their colonial adminstration of the area. Japan's move into southern part of Vietnam in July 1941 sparks an oil boycott by the U.S. and Great Britain. The resulting oil shortage strengthens Japan's desire to risk war against the U.S. and Britain.

1945
An OSS (Office of Strategic Services, forerunner of the CIA) team parachutes into Ho Chi Minh's jungle camp in northern Vietnam and saves Ho Chi Minh who is ill with malaria and other tropical diseases.

August, 1945
Japan surrenders. Ho Chi Minh establishes the Viet Minh, a guerilla army. Bao Dai abdicates after a general uprising led by the Viet Minh.

September, 1945
Seven OSS officers, led by Lieutenant Colonel A. Peter Dewey, land in Saigon to liberate Allied war prisoners, search for missing Americans, and gather intelligence.

September 2, 1945
Ho Chi Minh reads Vietnam's Declaration of Independence to end 80 years of colonialism under French rule and establish the Democratic Republic of Vietnam in Hanoi. Vietnam is divided north and south.

September 26, 1945
OSS Lieutenant Dewey killed in Saigon, the first American to be killed in Vietnam. French and Vietminh spokesmen blame each other for his death.

November, 1946
Ho Chi Minh attempts to negotiate the end of colonial rule with the French without success. The French army shells Haiphong harbor in November, killing over 6,000 Vietnamese civilians, and, by December, open war between France and the Viet Minh begins.

1950
The U.S., recognizing Boa Dai's regime as legitimate, begins to subsidize the French in Vietnam; the Chinese Communists, having won their civil war in 1949, begin to supply weapons to the Viet Minh.

August 3, 1950
A U.S. Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) of 35 men arrives in Saigon. By the end of the year, the U.S. is bearing half of the cost of France's war effort in Vietnam.

May 7, 1954
The French are defeated at Dien Bien Phu. General Vo Nguyen Giap commands the Viet Minh forces. France is forced to withdraw. The French-indochina War ends. See also:

Dien Bien Phu: A Vietnamese Perspective
Dien Bien Phu: A Website of the Battle

June, 1954
The CIA establishes a military mission in Saigon. Bao Dai selects Ngo Dinh Diem as prime minster of his government.

July 20, 1954
The Geneva Conference on Indochina declares a demilitarized zone at the 17th parallel with the North under Communist rule and the South under the leadership of Prime Minister Ngo Dinh Diem.

October 24, 1954
President Dwight D. Eisenhower pledges support to Diem's government and military forces.

1955
The U.S.-backed Ngo Dinh Diem organizes the Republic of Vietnam as an independent nation; declares himself president.

1956
Fighting begins between the North and the South.

July 8, 1959
The first American combat deaths in Vietnam occur when Viet Cong attack Bien Hoa billets; two servicemen are killed.


Kennedy was sworn in as president in 1961. Doh!

[hfojvt]

30. I think it is quite astounding for someone to have that list of dates

The ignorance of that is pretty run of the mill. Certainly I was ignorant of that (and still am, I did not read very much of it).

[American Tragedy]

53. JFK handled the Cuban Missile Crisis masterfully

Castro has stated on record that he himself was prepared to engage in nuclear war, but for the intervention of Khrushchev after talking to the Americans. If there is anybody to blame for that close call, it sure as hell isn't Kennedy.

[ChairOne]

63. I *think* catty-mr-historical-genius *meant* to refer to....

... the Bay of Pigs....

Could be wrong, but at least it's an error of charity...

[coda]

66. Then he needs to read up on the Bay of Pigs.

Doomed to failure. With or w/o air support.

[American Tragedy]

75. Oh, ok. I couldn't tell. He wrote 'Cuban Missile Crisis'.

Bay of Pigs was a miserable screw up, no argument here. Even so, Kennedy was practically conned into it by the military and the CIA, who were operating on an unfulfilled plot of the preceding administration. Afterwards, he learned better than to trust them, and he had the guts and the character to come forth publicly and take full responsibility. I wish more politicians would act similarly.

Even after that, JFK tragically paid the ultimate price for the Bay of Pigs.

[ChairOne]

77. Ack! Got lost in the branches.....

... i was talking about el-gato in #29... dammit - sorry I got the wrong sub-branch...

damn porter...

sorry all...

[bvar22]

98. Actually, it was RFK that "handled"...

...the Cuban Missle Crisis.

[American Tragedy]

110. I'm referring to the JFK administration in general, but you're right.

Robert McNamara played an important role as well.

[Rhiannon12866]

85. Whoa! He kept us out of war with the Russians

which as no easy feat! His advisers were ready to go to war and it took all he had to rein them in and stop a possible world war! If you don't believe me, watch the movie, depicting these events, or read up on the events that transpired.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0146309/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9VGhpcnRlZW4gRGF5c3xodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=1;ft=20;fm=1

As for Vietnam, any student of history knows that Eisenhower set these events off and no one could stop it, not Kennedy, nor Johnson, and it particularly tarnished Nixon, who had been Eisenhower's VP.:-(

[justinsb]

16. JFK would have been great

Had he been allowed to carry out his agenda. According to various sources his plans were to

- end the cold war, negotiate diplmatic normalization with the USSR and Cuba
- disband the CIA
- Withdraw from Veitnam
- Legalize and regulate marijuana
- scale back the US military and decrease it's presence in Europe and Japan

So the possible list of people who would want to shoot him becomes endless.

[el_gato]

26. that's why I listed him

[T Town Jake]

90. Do they teach American history in Canada?...

...or is it just you?

JFK was a Cold Warrior from stem-to-stern, who ran his 1960 campaign against Tricky Dick on a platform that stated that the Eisenhower/Nixon Administration had allowed a nuclear "missile-gap" to open up between the United States and the USSR - one he promised to close. The largest per-capita dollar-for-dollar (adjusted for inflation) peacetime Defense buildup in American history occurred during JFK's tenure.

Vietnam? On Jan. 20, 1961 there were 600 American troops in Vietnam. By November 22, 1963, there were 18,500. Pop quiz: who was President of the United States between Jan. 20, 1961 and Nov. 22, 1963?

Disband the CIA? Piffle. JFK's only real (and justified) complaint was that they fucked up the Bay of Pigs - which is why he fired one director, installed another, and planned further changes in a second term.

"Legalize and regulate marijuana" - President Kennedy? In 1963? In the United States? On Planet Earth? In this Dimension? Jeesuz...you either pulled that one out of your ass or don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

The bottom line is that JFK was a good president, with the potential to have been great had his life not been tragically cut short. But his views bore no resemblance, even slightly, to the horseshit you dribbled out in that post.

[American Tragedy]

113. You're right, but cut him some slack, Jake.

He's not from here. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty clueless about Canadian political history myself.

Anyway, it's true that there was a strong presence of military advisors installed in South Vietnam during that administration, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he intended to escalate the war like his successor did. In fact, interviews with both him and McNamara suggest otherwise.

Nevertheless, you're right, he was an authentic Cold Warrior. Incidentally, there was no missile gap, although in the debates it was stated as though it were an established fact. I think Eisenhower's cuts in the defense budget were actually quite justified at the time.

[American Tragedy]

56. We were all ROBBED that day in 1963 even those of us too young to remember

We were also robbed when RFK was taken from us.

It just seems so unfair.

[demosincebirth]

11. FDR

[flygal]

62. I would choose him also

I love Jimmy Carter, but as an effective president FDR was tops.

[justinsb]

13. Jefferson

I think I'd still have to vote for Thomas Jefferson, his ideas continue to resonate 200+ years after the fact although I still think the world might have been in better shape had the US lost that war and remained in the commonwealth.

[ClassicDem]

38. Thomas Jefferson

No President has ever compared to him.

[mutus_frutex]

45. Definitely Jefferson..

Typical man of the enlightenment.

[redirish28]

73. jefferson because

he wrote our declaration of independence, he helped shape our country with the louisiana purchase, never got us into a war, and was probably the smartest of all the presidents, dead or alive.

[starroute]

78. Another Jefferson fan here

As John Kennedy said when he hosted a White House dinner for Nobel Prize winners, "There has not been so much talent assembled in this room since Jefferson dined alone."

[BOHICA06]

17. TR -

for his day, he was a blipping radical!

[Clark2008]

70. Love Teddy!

He could come back and teach these Republicans a thing or two about values and honor!

[BOHICA06]

18. self-delete

[fudge stripe cookays]

19. I'm an FDR gal.

Sure he had his faults, but he pulled this country out of one of the worst situations it had ever seen (up til then, anyway :eyes:). And really helped the lot of the little people. I so admire that.

I just recently read about the veterans who died in the 1935 hurricane, and how awful the aftermath was for FDR (the people thought he'd put them down in Florida to get them out of the capital so he wouldn't have to see them). But at least he didn't have MacArthur shoot them like freaking Hoover did.

It was a perfect example of the differences between Democrats and Republicans. Even then.

FSC

[RubyDuby in GA]

20. Ditto

Just because I love him. I don't have to rationalize it. I just do. I'm sooooo lucky. I work about 10 minutes from the Carter Center. I can go there whenever I want to and get my JC fix. Or it's just a 2 hour drive down to Plains.

Come visit WI_DEM! :)

Do I need to post my pic with him again????
Love him.....

On edit: close 2nd would be Jackson - he was fiesty.

[Senator Lamb]

21. i want to see the pic

please

[RubyDuby in GA]

22. Well alrighty then

I aim to please:



K. Krautter, moi, Mr. and Mrs. Carter, and dear friend C.

[Senator Lamb]

32. what was Newt Gingrich doing there?

just kidding, very nice, thanks for the pic.

[Hippo_Tron]

41. All of the great ones also did some pretty bad things

Washington - Whisky rebellion

Jackson - Opened the doors of government to the common people. Also commited genocide.

Lincoln - Illegally suspended Habeas Corpus, wasn't too great on civil rights during the part of reconstruction that he was alive for.

Teddy Roosevelt - First real imperialist president. Under Teddy, America gets the idea that it can boss around weaker nations.

Wilson - Was responsible for more progressive reforms than Taft and FDR. Also was a KKK leader and under his leadership America became a police state in World War I.

FDR - Japanese internment camps

Truman - The Atomic Bomb, start of the Cold War, Korea.

Johnson - Vietnam

Looking at all of these, Carter may have not left the greatest legacy on this country, but he may possibly have been the greatest man to occupy the white hosue.

[flygal]

61. You are so lucky!!!

He's one of my favorite human beings!

[WI_DEM]

24. I'm going to get down there one of these days

and yes post the pic, please.

[RubyDuby in GA]

93. Plains is really a fantastic little town

When you finally make it down our way, let me know. I'll give ya the grand tour.

[PassingFair]

23. Babe-raham Lincoln...

the man, the humanist, the conscience.
The contrast between Lincoln and the smear of excrement that currently inhabits the White House is enough to make me puke.

In fact....

:puke:

Sorry, couldn't hold it in.

[MsTryska]

25. I heart Teddy Roosevelt!

and Thomas Jefferson is a very close second.

[stanwyck]

27. FDR saved this country

he turned this country around. He and the incredible people of his administration were truly forward thinkers. I wish we had not strayed so far from their vision for America.

[Yupster]

67. Agree stan -- FDR

Other good ones, but he was best,

Biggest criticism was running a fourth time.

[TyeDye75]

28. FDR

I studied him in some detail in GCSE and A level history and I just think he was a great man.

Ive also grown to love Jimmy Carter.

[Senator Lamb]

33. I pick TR

other Presidents became blessed with greatness due to a crisis. who knows how history would have judged them without their war or great domestic problem. Yet Teddy Roosevelt manages to define the Presidency, set precedents, create a radical foreign policy vision, with revolutionary domestic achievements in progressive reforms and environmental policy in a time of peace. due to his great character and energy he alteres America's role and ushers in the 20th century by his own will as opposed to being tested by a great trial such as a depression or war. with the exception of maybe Jefferson and Washington what other President ranks among the greats without a crisis

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Abraham Lincoln. No contest.

Despite his missteps and faults, he ended slavery. It is hard to imagine anyone else of that time capable of doing so. No president has been faced with a crisis of such magnitude as Lincoln.

[Vidar]

35. FDR by a mile.

[CornField]

37. Jimmy Carter

He's the only honest president I've ever known. I think he is one of those truly great individuals that out-think their own generation. So many of his ideas, beliefs and policies were tossed aside by his contemporaries because they could not grasp the vision. History, I think, will be much more kind to him as a individual. Where his presidency is now viewed as "ineffective" by many, I think that label will soon come to placed firmly on the foreheads of those who opposed his foresight.

Outside of my personal experiences, I also admire Roosevelt and Kennedy.

[Menshevik]

39. FDR

I really admire him

[rniel]

40. Teddy Roosevelt

Because he had the courage to stand up to BIG business and break them up when they were becoming too powerful in our government (Damn I would like to see someone like this for 2008). His fights for a living minimum wage and the whole idea of conservation came from him. He's the man.

[ZombieNixon]

42. JFK.

A great man whose life was tragically cut short for all the wrong reasons. Had he lived, this nation would be much better off today.

FDR and Jimmy Carter are forever locked in an eternal struggle for an infinitesimally close second place.

[JohnLocke]

43. Lincoln, Jefferson, FDR, Washington, and JFK, in that order (nt).

[klyon]

44. yes Carter

JFK would be #2

KL

[parentalalienation]

46. I'm going to get slammed but ... Reagan

Yes, Reagan. I know, Iknow. But let me tell you the reason I liked him. He was so diplomatic and charismatic that no one could meet with him and walk away angry.

He also had a way of uniting America, regardless of party affiliation. Reagan was loved by all Americans, and Nancy was a fantastic first lady.

He also help the people's confidence, and you could tell that he had a real concern for the citizens of our nation. When a soldier died, Reagan felt as if it was his own son dying. He didn't send our kids off to war because he simply thought something was amiss.

If it was all an act, it was a very good one. Personally I think Reagan was a very principled and moral man. He was proud of our country, not himself. He was kind and thoughtful, perhaps to a fault but we all loved him for it.

If he had run in this last election he would have had my vote.

OK, go ahead, slam me now.

[Warren DeMontague]

50. Is it a slam to say "Are you high?"

He's single-handedly responsible for a great deal of the mess we're in now.

Iran-Contra was a far bigger deal than Watergate, both criminally and constitutionally. By allowing him to get away with it, the public and the media set the stage for the chain of unmitigated disasters (and subsequent utter lack of consequences or blame-taking) that the Bush admin. is sticking us with now.

Behind Reagan's alleged genial affableness was a deep disdain for legal governance and the constitution. He allowed criminals like Ollie North and John Poindexter to have free reign sliming all over the WH.

He saddled us with Scalia on the supreme court.

He allowed the AIDS epidemic to spiral out of control while his homophobia prevented him from even saying the word.

He shot the deficit through the roof, and only the excellent intelligent leadership of Bill Clinton (who is certainly in my top 5) was able to bring it under control.

The legacies of Reagan and the 80s are all around us, from shitty whiny pseudo-punk and a generation raised to believe "greed is good", to folks serving ridiculous mandatory minimum drug-related jail sentences while rapists and murderers do less time.

Enough, yet?

Oh, and "we all" didn't love him. I thought he was a disaster throughout both of his sucky-ass terms.

[American Tragedy]

55. Bear in mind that Reagan was an actor, and charisma can be deceptive.

I don't think he was a fundamentally bad person like Bush, but from what I've read, I wouldn't exactly give his presidency high marks. My parents and grandparents, who do remember him, were extremely displeased with him; they've said many times that they hated what happened in this country and in the government during the 1980s.

[coda]

74. Reads like biography written for 3rd graders.

Reagan certainly had good instincts, one of his best being that he never wanted 41 as his Vice-President.

He would have won handily without him, but alas, bowed to political pressure.

Replacing his VP and half his cabinet with people of integrity would meant so much for the country.

[marions ghost]

79. "loved by all Americans"....Reagan!?!

LOL Whatever you may think of Reagan and "fantastic first lady Nancy" -- they certainly were NOT loved by all Americans. OK so he had "charisma," well you can't go on charisma alone. While Nancy and her astrologer kept the country together Reagan was already slipping down the Pacific Coast Highway in his second term. "Ronald Reagan" was an illusory figure, now propped up for posterity. Historians of the future may be able to define him, once the myth wears off.

[mr blur]

91. I have to say, as a foreigner,

that we saw Regan, as we see Bush, as a dangerous lunatic out of touch with reality and obsessed with the idea of American imperialism. Reagan and Thatcher together summed up what was appalling abuut the 80s in their endless search for someone else to blame for the state of out countries. The world hasn't been so close to world war since, at least not until the Chimp stole your country.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. Whoa.. I missed the part about Nancy being "Fantastic"

A fantastic f*cking Nightmare, more like.

Just Say No, Kids.

[bvar22]

101. Reagan was loved by ALL...

...rich, white bigots. He let them feel good about themselves again!

[Tweed]

121. I'm sorry, but if you don't want to get kicked off, you can't say things

like that with only 12 posts. You have to build up your liberal street credibility. It's sad that's how DU has to work. Freeper disruptors have ruined it for you friend. I'm sorry.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Melynn]

47. The President after W.Bush

Hopefully the next President after Bush the 43rd will be a real progressive. The country will be ready for a change after the Bush nightmare.

Hey, I'm optimist, so sue me!

[bobthedrummer]

48. FDR

He really helped our nation when we were in several messes.

[Taxloss]

49. Clinton.

He is the only one of your presidents I have encountered in person and BOY did that man exude leadership, and charisma, and courage, and everything a leader should have. At the time we were under the rule of Major so that kind of hope, and spirit, well, it was something to a young man. I think my unalloyed Atlanticism started there.

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Despite the personal flaws, Jefferson.

His crucial role in everything good and lasting with our system of governance, his statements on Church, State and his battles with the fundies of his day are enough to put him in the top slot for me.

He was like the Jerry Garcia of the founding fathers-- brilliant, exquisitely talented, and imbued with a timeless, transcendent genius... but also determined that it not be "all about him".. even though his handiwork is all over the final product.

Second? FDR, for sure.

[B0S0X87]

52. Washington, Lincoln, Jefferson and the Roosevelt boys

Is it just me, or do we get our greatest presidents (Lincoln, FDR, Washington) when really need them (Civil War, depression, newborn country)? Kinda seems like we've been pretty lucky... so far, at least.

[Moe Levine]

125. correct, but for Jefferson

[Arkana]

54. Ronald Raygun because the MSM told me so

Just kidding. I'm a Carter fan too. One of our only genuinely honest Presidents. I give him the credit for the release of the Iranian hostages and the end of the Cold War, since Raygun and his giant missiles certainly did nothing.

[JanMichael]

57. All beholden to the "Bank".

As for Carter didn't he keep up support for Somoza?

And, just for shits and giggles, wasn't Reagan's 5 year Military Spending Plan almost the same amount as Billy's?

[Hissyspit]

58. Millard Fillmore

Because he was named Millard Fillmore.

Plus it took a lot of guts to be the 13th President of the United States.

[Melynn]

82. Don't forgot

They named a concert hall after him. The Fillmore East. Great classic rock n' roll venue.

[Hissyspit]

134. Jefferson, really

This was just a joke.

1.) Jefferson, 2.) FDR, 3.) Clinton

About Millard Fillmore:
COOL: Had Daniel Webster as Secretary of State
UNCOOL: Helped Pass Fugitive Slave Act

Refused to join Republican Party, but it was not the same Republican Party then. Was member of Know Nothing Party.
But overall, not very cool guy.

[Obviousman]

59. TR

Environmentalist, Progressive, and stood up to the big businesses of his day. If only he had been the model for future republicans instead of goldwater.

[JanMichael]

60. Remember why he called some reporters "Muckrakers"?

It wasn't a term of endearment.

[dansolo]

64. FDR - He recognized the threat of Fascism before anyone else

I have an immense amount of admiration for both Washington and Lincoln, and I don't believe that the country would have survived without either one of them. But, FDR stands above all others. He helped get the country out of the depression, and gave hope to all Americans. He also was one of the few people who recognized the true threat of Fascism, when many in America were either isolationists, or worse, collaborators. FDR took a huge risk in gearing up the country for war when he didn't have the support. Without that foresight, WW II probably would have turned out a lot differently.

[oasis]

69. Bill Clinton got the country going again. Most everyone benefited.

That's why the right coundn't stand him. Clinton outshined their boy Ronnie Reagan, by plenty.

[two gun sid]

71. Jimmy Carter

I cast my first presidential vote for Carter in 1980 and it's still the vote I'm most proud of.

[NNguyenMD]

72. Mr. Lincoln

[coda]

76. Jefferson

Still the most consequential, by far.

His writings still reverberate the strongest even today, not the least of which are his comments on the 1st Amendment's impetus for separation of church and state and no less important, his very strong influence on a younger Madison.

We'd have such a different country to the point it's hard to imagine it without him.

I'm a big fan of Carter WI_DEM, good pick. :thumbsup:

Like sid above, I'm most proud of my vote(s) for Carter.

[Rhiannon12866]

80. Wow! He's mine, as well, as you can probably tell, LOL!

Jimmy Carter is one of my heroes and my favorite president of my lifetime. Why? For many of the same reasons that you said. He is, at heart, a decent human being, who tried to do the very best for his country, and has never given up. I liked him, just on instinct, when he was first running for president, and nobody thought he had a chance. I was not political, back then, and wasn't until 9/11 woke me up. But Jimmy Carter just seemed to me to express tolerance and decency, and the ability to live up to his beliefs, without hypocrisy, and he has never let me down. And he is still doing good, at 80, monitoring fair elections in countries like Mozambique and Indonesia and Venezuela, through the Carter Center, and building houses, one nail at a time, in the poorest parts of our nation. He never gives up and never looks back. I truly believe that history will judge him very kindly.:-)

[eridani]

86. Carter is surely the best ex-president we've ever had--

--too much of a micromanager while in office, and let Brzezinski start supporting Islamic fundies in Afghanistan.

[T Town Jake]

87. On a Domestic policy-only basis, there is no equal:

Lyndon Baines Johnson.

Voting Rights Act of '64. Civil Rights Act of '65. War on Poverty. Great Society Programs. Highway Beautification. Funding for the Arts (NEA), and Public Television. Clean Air & Water Programs. Head Start.

And that's just for openers.

His foreign policy we can argue about; but on the domestic side there has never been a better liberal Democrat in the Oval Office than LBJ. I only wish my avatar had had a chance to follow up on the programs Johnson initiated. We would most likely be living in a far different, and far better, country today...

[gottaB]

88. Thomas Jefferson

The only orthodox object of the institution of government is to secure the greatest degree of happiness possible to the general mass of those associated under it.

Thomas Jefferson is my choice because he strikes me as the most openminded. The political ideals he espoused and lived by--I say this in due cognizance of his failings--were not terribly presciptive. Jefferson had definite views about how government should be structured, but always, it seems to me, with the intent of limiting its powers and safeguarding individual liberties. Those are the sort of political values anybody could live by.

One rap on liberalism, from what might be a paleocon viewpoint, is that it's really not very demanding. It leads to all kinds of laxities of virtue and citizenship. I think, however, that the reverse has proven to be true. It's not easy being a citizen of a liberal democracy. To this day we struggle with new demands for liberty, equality and justice, and engage in the process of perfecting our system of government. What for? To defend our own personal liberties? Or because we enjoy it? If it is something we enjoy, it's hardly on the same plane as sex, drugs and rock-and-roll.

Jefferson once noted that he was convinced that no essential conflict exists between our natural rights and our social duties. That implies a profound openness to how our rights and duties are to be defined. And indeterminacy in social relations does seem both natural and desirable. I wouldn't wish to live in Jefferson's social milieux any more than I would wish to pay his personal debts. I am happy to take his contributions to our constitution and our system of government and his political philosophy. The remainder I leave to others, and for that I am happy too.

[spooked]

95. LBJ - I'm just fascinated by this larger-than-life man!

Love him, flaws and all!


LBJ singing with his dog

[WI_DEM]

99. that's a cool picture

[neebob]

96. I agree with you on Carter

As far as I know, he's the only one deserving of admiration by my standards, which are primarily ethical. The rest all did at least one shitty thing.

[suziedemocrat]

106. Washington - for refusing to be kIng. But we had some good ones.

Besides the obvious... Teddy Rooselvelt for all the national parks that pissed congress off. Truman for his famous quote "The buck stops here." LBJ for ruining his political career for civil rights. Really - we've done pretty well - even the bad ones had their moments of goodness. I just hope W doesn't ruin everything that everyone else acomplished.

[Siyahamba]

111. Jimmy Carter

He embodied true Christian values and treated everyone equally regardless of their beliefs.

[Groggy]

112. Jimmy Carter

Because he is one of the few politicians that I totally respect and admire. He is truly a good person. :loveya:

[Lizzie Borden]

114. FDR

[inslee08]

115. Washington

The way he put his country ahead of himself is what clinched it for me.

[Deja Q]

117. Lincoln - and it has nothing to do with that pathetic gay rumor!!!

Here's why:

http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln78.html


"If I were to try to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for any other business. I do the very best I know how - the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what's said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference." The Inner Life of Abraham Lincoln: Six Months at the White House by Francis B. Carpenter (University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, Nebraska, 1995), pp. 258-259.

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, "Letter To Henry L. Pierce and Others" (April 6, 1859), p. 376.

(snip)

"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.


(much more from that site, and let's be thankful * hasn't stolen that freedom one from Lincoln. He hasn't because of the quote I'd put in immediately below it... * could NEVER say that.)

[Stop_the_War]

119. Lincoln and JFK

[Moe Levine]

122. Correct Answer

Washington stands alone, at the top, in a separate category

1) Lincoln
2) FDR
3) Truman

[Jackie97]

129. I think it would be Carter.

He seems to understand a lot about how to work out problems. This is far more than I can say about Bush (who thinks war is the answer to just about everything). It's also more than I can say about Clinton. We were about to get into a war with possibly Haiti years ago during the Clinton administration, and Carter talked his way out of it for us.

He also helped Eygpt and Israel negotiate a peace agreement in the 1970s, which was revolutionary for that area.

At the same time, he's the jerk who called to have bin Laden and his men trained to fight the Communists. We often blame that on Reagan, but Carter called for that.

However, if I have to choose, I would choose Carter for the above reasons. Plus, he was the president when I was born. :)

[Queen Jane]

130. i need 2...FDR & Lincoln. (nt)

[VPStoltz]

132. Carter/Clinton

I'd have to say Carter. I was in my late teens when he was elected (I supported John Anderson - remember him?) so his presidency doesn't stick in my mind. It's what he has done afterward that I respect. In office, I think Clinton was the best president we have ever had. He was young and brash and went places other presidents thought below them - Bush has yet to give a speak in a church, Clinto did often. While he was a little to conservative for me, I think he did more for the image a America in the world than any president in my time.

[slay]

135. Clinton. Getting blowjob which really pissed off republicans makes him #1

And I guess he was OK as far as leaders go too. :evilgrin:

[Charon]

136. Favorite Presidents

George Washington
Abraham Lincoln
Franklin D. Roosevelt