I think DU's view of Bush is wrong in a lot of ways

[Jesus Saves]

In most ways I can't stand him. But I don't think he's an idiot, nor do I think he's a human monster.

I think he's cold and callous in a lot of ways. However, I think he really believes what he says. I think he really bought the whole right wing schtick hook line and sinker. He really sees himself as a Christian. However his lack of intellectual curiousity and meaningful introspection doesn't allow him to see how obtuse he can truly be.

I think his choice of Laura as a wife shows he has some sort of substance. I think Laura is a decent person. I'm not saying she's world shattering or anything, just not a bad person and probably a lot more insightful in a lot of ways than her husband. I know she's a Bob Dylan fan. I know she raised two daughters who seem to have some taste and decency to them.

So George ain't all bad. He's just obtuse and unable to see around the corners. He willfully wears blinders.

I'm not saying I don't get pissed. I often get red hot mad. Like when I saw him and all those other old white men signing that Bankruptcy bill. They were all laughing about it, cracking jokes. Bush was doing that cackle of his. I got pissed, real pissed, more pissed than I'd been in a long time. He just doesn't get it. Doesn't understand. Obtuse and callous.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like him.

But hey, Kinky Friedman counts him as a friend of sorts. So hey, what can ya say?

We live in a wierd world.

[Syrinx]

1. he's a complete phony and liar

He's about as religious as Madelyn Murray O'Hare.

[Jesus Saves]

6. You really truly think

he's totally phony about his Christianity?

I'm almost certain he's genuine about it. He's just obtuse and willfully ignorant about many things.

[Syrinx]

15. yes, I do

I mean think about it. What policy has he pushed that reflects a truly Christian attitude? He's all about corporatism. The religion stuff is all about politics.

[Jesus Saves]

21. I'm not saying he's right

It's possible to be genuine about a something, and yet be totally wrong about it, ya know?

[Syrinx]

26. you're surely right about that

But I don't think it applies to the man we're talking about. The whole family has a very shady and shameless history. These are thugs, and very dangerous ones.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

17. People who have spoken to him a few years ago say that ..

he is using the X-tian Right.

[Conservativesux]

110. And doing a good job of it too, the corporate trained monkey!

[flyarm]

104. he is no more christian than hitler was!!

he is a murderer..you can not possibly watch him sitting while my co workers slammed into buildings in ny and he sat there and sat there and sat there while not only my co-workers burned to death ..he sat there when people were jumping from those buildings..murderers pretend they are christian..but they are the devil recarnate!!

* is satan ..or the anti christ!!

fly

[SammyWinstonJack]

131. His born again schtick was about getting votes

A Rove plan for picking up votes prior to bush** running for TX Gov. bush**'s Christianity is as phoney as he is.

[Individualist]

160. If you think he's genuine, you've been suckered

Now then, I have an excellent deal on a bridge in Brooklyn that's too good for you to pass up.

[Tigress DEM]

78. No one made him lie to Girls & Boys Club, then cut their funding.

I once saw a post with quite a few side by side shots of Bush saying one thing during photo ops and then within days or weeks cutting funds on the very people he had used for publicity.

There is nothing sincere or Christian about doing that.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

113. I'm with you

I read all your posts in this thread..comPLETEly agree

[Syrinx]

164. thanks so much

I think if we can't agree that Bush is evil, what could we possibly agree on? :)

[0007]

127. I agree........and further more the folks that try to defend junior

and make excuses are guilty of aiding and abetting a war criminal.

[vince3]

2. He has never been elected.

[Catherine Vincent]

3. He's a puppet.

That's why his handlers did anything they could to install him in the White House.

[liveoaktx]

4. He's a liar-you must have missed the articles from today

about Blair and the Iraq War, proving that Bush was already planning in 2002 to go to war, for reasons of regime change, and had to convince AG Goldsmith of the UK that the war wasn't illegal.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

12. Gee this must be the first time he's been caught lying!! I ...

never heard of him lying before!!! I'm distraught!!

:sarcasm:

[liveoaktx]

142. You're be more distraught if you were going to be one of the dead soldiers

or innocents in Iraq.

[Beam Me Up]

5. Aprently you think you think.

Why should we give a man whose privilege has allowed him to hijack an entire nation--which he, with his elitist handlers, then systematically proceeds to loot and distroy--even one iota of respect?

[EC]

7. I don't even think he comprehends what he is saying

most of the time...I think he's one of those pampered prick assholes that treats everybody like his subjects and thinks he's above everyone else....just like his mother...

[MazeRat7]

8. Troll bait... sorry not gonna play. (n/t)

[susu369]

133. Smartest post I've read

:toast:

[MontageOfFreedom]

9. I'm sorry but, please wake up immediately.

He's as phony as a puppet as you are for Bush. He's a lying fool who's put all his efforts behind some purely evil propaganda in order to try to make himself feel "good".

Let's see who else tried that....Richard Nixon. This guy's just getting it worse.

[flyarm]

105. he started out worse!! remember his polls were in the dumper

when he was complicit in 9/11!!

fly

[cry baby]

10. I like your posts, so I'm not going to flame, just disagree.

1) He doesn't believe what he says, he lies and he knows that better than anyone else.
2) Cold and callous in public service makes him a monster.
3) Laura seems to have no substance - a stepford wife. Nice enough, but shallow.
4) One of the bush girls was dancing in a short skirt on all fours in a bar showing her thong. She has been drunk in public before, doesn't seem like great moral values to me.
5) You said he wasn't an idiot, but then said he is obtuse. Seems the same to me.
6) Kinky Friedman - lol

[Mythsaje]

107. The Bush girls

"4) One of the bush girls was dancing in a short skirt on all fours in a bar showing her thong. She has been drunk in public before, doesn't seem like great moral values to me."

Sounds like fun to me. And I mean this seriously. Knowing she's under constant scrutiny yet throwing it all to the wind and doing what she wants regardless? I can appreciate that, really.

Screw "moral values." This is just being a young human being out having a good time and letting the chips fall where they may. They may have to play the dutiful daughters when called upon, but the rest of the time they seem to be after sabotaging their father's carefully cultivated image.

[stpalm]

129. most anything they do that gets in the news makes Bush look bad

so they aren't all bad- even though they are promiscuous drunken sleazes.

[alittlelark]

11. Hitler believed in what he said.... Gott un Mit (sp)

OK... so you say he is obtuse, and lacks intellectual curiosity..... but... hey... his wife shows that he's not such a bad guy after all. OMG.


WHAT are you DRINKING? And - where did you get it (was it a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster?

:crazy: :silly: :wow:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

13. He's just obtuse and unable to see around the corners

He's very prone to binary thinking. Life is easier to understand if it is nothing more than simple either or propositions, (You're either with us, or against us). One article I read said that was a big job of Karl Rove's job, was to explain the various nuances of things to George, as he seems to be able to do a better job of it than most.

However, that within itself is indicative of a simpleton. I think what got George in office was his last name, his family connections, and he would be easier to handle than some.

[G_j]

14. sorry, sadistic mass murderers are not OK in my book

I don't have to hate him, but I do know he should be in jail.

[ngGale]

16. See, his secret is....

he's even worse than most think! He's a user, abuser, but smart enough to make you believe he's a decent person. It's all a script and all a big plan. Really, he's 10 times worse than anyone would believe. His administration sells, he's the product. And, * doesn't care about anything or anybody, except his own greed and his friends at the top of the 1% tax bracket. His base!:think:

[MontageOfFreedom]

20. Sadly, this is no exaggeration at all. n/t

http://www.yuricareport.com

[Montauk6]

30. Not at all...

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-46,RNWE:en&q=%22I+pledge+allegiance+to+the+christian+flag%22



Study this image carefully; I have a feeling we're going to see it more and more.

[Castilleja]

162. I suspect you have him nailed, there.

I agree with all of that. When he was put into office, i bought something called "Pocket President", after all this time, think this still describes his role best.

[PA Mamma]

18. He is a Psychopath

psy·cho·path (sk-pth)
n.

A person with an antisocial personality disorder, especially one manifested in perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior.

or Sociopath -- however you want to slice your cheese.

[vSmith]

19. Re: "Cold and callous"

Look,
He's a politician, most can't admit that all those seeking power have some motive separate from their proposed ideology. So, looking at Bush, as the joker he is, I agree. He's not evil, he's not stupid, he's just playing the game of politics. If one partisan says one thing, the opponent must reciprocate in the opposite manner. Bush isn't our enemy, politics as we know it is.

Thank you for your post, it brings some level of sensibility in a hateful (though sometimes justified) world.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vSmith]

32. I'm not your enemy here

Look,
I've read at least the guardian and Michael Moore. My conclusions of seemingly placating Bush as merely a politician isn't a justification of his terrible political actions. I'm merely stating that he's merely a creation of extreme partisan talking points; enabling those on topical issues to vote according to the fabricated political atmosphere.

[MontageOfFreedom]

35. Such an argument would mean....

That the likes of Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler and so on, should therefore also be known as mere 'politicians'.

This is where I am stressing this degree of understanding be clearly studied first.

http://www.onlinejournal.com

He has done more things wrong in the entire world, than most men or women could dream of, how that exscuses him as just a politician seems tongue-cheek in perspective.

I'm reminded of an interesting story by George Lucas about a Republic that tears itself to shreds....

[vSmith]

50. "The hate is swelling in you now"

All I'm asking is some sensibility at his presidency. He may have made some generally unpopular choices, but again, he's just a politician. The majority voted him for his perspective; It sucks, I disagree with almost all he's done domestically, but I'm not going to vilify him as an anti-Christ. That seems counter productive to our cause, to find and have a decent human being represent our ideals with no other motive.

[MontageOfFreedom]

58. Georgia doesn't seem to be doing good under him...

And I'm not sure any of his policies of politics truly benefit anyone except the fundamentalists, oil companies, big bankers and of course thousands of profiteers.....

I suspect his motivations was far more deliberate then that.

[vSmith]

64. Understood about the politics creating benefits back in the US

Some of his policies my pander to the fundamentalists, but the Legislative branch of gov't tends to trump his ass. The fundies are a minority voting bloc, with unworthy prospects of their intentions. Stay on task, criticize Bush and Congress where fundie laws and bills were actually passed. Asides from the Judicial side of things, there isn't much reason to freak out.

[MontageOfFreedom]

68. There certainly can be reason to freak out....

If he installs people in power to run the government under a fundamentalist worldview.

[vSmith]

73. As much as I dislike the man:

I just don't see that. The appointed staff you might be referring to is only employed under his presidency. After him leaving office, normalcy can resume. I am curious, what fundies are controlling his world view in your eye?

[MontageOfFreedom]

83. Haven't you any idea about them?

Doctor "Senator Frist", Mr. Jack Abramoff, Antoine Scalia, Clarence Thomas....

http://www.yuricareport.com

Frist will take out the fillbuster, if it means the extremist judges can be appointed including Mrs Keyes.

[vSmith]

85. There is no doubt about the onslaught of recent fundamentalist issues

However,
I feel it's a temporary rhetoric to appeal to a base in 2006. The best part about it is : Most Republican voters aren't fundie assholes. They were turned off by the Schiavo crap. We'll see the reaction to their pandering to the religious extremists in time. Until then, try and keep a level head. Sensibility trumps partisanship any day.

[MontageOfFreedom]

87. The leadership seems to think the opposite.

And that their base in fact ARE those and have been those always.

Did you know Bush, Cheney and the brigade were skull & bones? All of this secret history points straight to re-writing the constitution. You have to be aware that their real agenda is not what the people so falsely believed.

[wtmusic]

79. No he's not "just a politician"

He's the worst president of the last century. He is destroying the environment (yes, destroying--if you don't believe it, you don't know enough). He is mortgaging our children's future to give his rich friends tax breaks. He is starting wars which serve a dual purpose, neither of them noble or honest--to feed his defense and petroleum support base--and has killed 100,000 innocent people in the process. He has broken the UN Charter, the START II strategic arms limitation treaty, the 1972 ban on chemical weapons, and a 1982 international accord banning the use of napalm. He's removed the US from the International Criminal Court and just recently has failed to get the UN to give the US an exemption on war crimes charges (what does that tell you?). He's cut 28 million from NCLB programs and cut countless grant programs (including PELL grants) which give needy kids a leg up. He's arrogantly alienated every former ally except those he can make his lap dog.

"The majority voted him for his perspective". Big fucking deal. The majority doesn't have any clue to what his perspective is. If George Bush isn't evil I don't know who is.

[MontageOfFreedom]

84. The majority also didn't vote for him--at all.

http://www.votersunite.org and http://www.bradblog.com

Its time to be fully informed before deciding something.

[wtmusic]

86. Another issue entirely

Even if there was widespread voter fraud in 2004 (and it's possible/likely/unlikely/we'll never know for sure) the idea that even 10% voted for him is demonstrative that people just don't know. It shouldn't have *even* been close.

[MontageOfFreedom]

88. According to this official study it wasn't close.

And never was close on the final night. http://www.uscountvotes.org

The media who is in their pocket, professed with absolute deceit that it was for the entire time close.

[wtmusic]

89. I know from personal experience that it was close

I talked to literally thousands of Nevadans while canvassing NV for Kerry. You know what? At least half of those people told me with there own mouths they were going to vote for Bush because he was "a good leader," blah blah blah.

So excuse me if I don't buy the paranoid conspiracy myth. The election may have been stolen, but it was close. Your link says that there were "questions" and that's just what they are.

[MontageOfFreedom]

90. Nationwide, state by state.

Does it look close whatsoever?

http://tinyurl.com/8c5x7
http://www.flcv.com/summary.html

Close depends on where you live in the county every time.

[wtmusic]

91. What conclusions are you drawing

from a post by TruthIsAll (who has major problems with his methodology) and the other link, which acknowledges there were "problems"? One could believe every statement at that site and still not be able to conclude there would have been a significant difference in the outcome.

[MontageOfFreedom]

94. What methodology is that?

It accounts for the very exit polls you keep seeming to forget in the argument.

Try viewing the exit polls for yourself, before assuming the message of the deliverer.

http://www.exitpollz.org

If you can not tell, they are all the same exit polls. And they all declare the exact same thing which you seem unable to grasp, the vote count does not match the exit poll in every single state using mainly e-voting.

[wtmusic]

96. Exitpollz.org confirms what I've been saying

So Kerry might have won by 3%. That's close, no?

[MontageOfFreedom]

98. Its close to some.

But in the scheme of national logistics, that can also be seen as quite a leap.

[saracat]

111. The majority voted for him? Are you drinkin the cool aid?

I don't think the majority voted for him. If they did , they deserve what they got! But the vote is too compromised for us to know! And the sensibilityof his presidency is he is a disaster and a complete embarrassment. He can't even play politics. A political animal wouldn't be pushing SS reform or nominating Bolton!

[senseandsensibility]

141. The majority voted for his perspective?

You give yourself away with that sentence, which is untrue.

[Runcible Spoon]

24. ........

www.newamericancentury.org/

read it and weep.

[vSmith]

38. I truly read it

Here is the matter though:
This has nothing to do with a specific party. Policies overseas have been questionable since we've considered ourselves a nation. What we need is a representative that understands our position, and adheres to the idealisms that they profess. Hate Bush all you want, I agree he deserves all the criticism from us all. The solution is finding someone who doesn't play the game of politics, and actual represents what he says.

[MontageOfFreedom]

46. That may be the solution or not.

But I have a question, is your name Vance Smith or am I reading into things or not?

[vSmith]

55. It's an allusion to my favorite novel:

Stranger in a Strange Land. Valentine Smith, it seemed suitable in a political forum.

[Jesus Saves]

60. Will politics ever

change?

On that point, I'm not so hopeful.

[vSmith]

69. I am

I hope partisanship can be recognized. After that, we, as a people, can stand up against talking points and partisan rhetoric, and actually find our rep...However, I also believe in UFO's and underwear gnomes...forgive me

[alittlelark]

99. What country are you living in ?

<He's not evil, he's not stupid> Oh, he's just playing a game... like children do... HOW CUTE. GET A CLUE.


I guess not here in the US of A

[Dr Ron]

23. Thoughts on Bush

Calling him an idiot is overly simplistic. On the one hand, he is an excellent politician. I don't buy the theory that it is all due to Rove. Rove undoubtably played a big part--it takes more than one person to accomplish what Bush has politically.

While not an idiot when it comes to politics, he is extremely shallow and simplistic, not caring for the details of issues or looking at the background. He definately shows a lack of intellectual curiosity.

This similistic world view leads to his politics. He sees things from the perspective of a Texas oil man. He also thinks in terms of the benefits of business to the country. To Bush, if business is successful, the country is doing well--and business to Bush means big business.

[charlyvi]

25. You don't start a war against a nation

who has not harmed you if you are a true Christian. You don't cut Medicaid by 30 million dollars and give 110 million in tax cuts to rich people at the same time if you are a true Christian. You don't cut back food stamps if you are a true Christian. You don't lie to Congress about the cost of your Medicare bill if you are a true Christian. You don't endanger a successful social insurance program that the people want, while lying through your teeth about wanting to "fix" it if you are a true Christian. You don't lie about your opponant's stellar military service when you went awol, just to win an election if you are a true Christian....Get the idea? His Christianity is a convenient tool; as phony as a two dollar bill.

[ridgerunner]

77. "as phony as a two dollar bill."

I don't disagree with your sentiments, but there really is a two dollar bill.

[Bluebear]

27. 2 daughters with taste and decency?

I don't see it yet. Perhaps after Jenna gets over her youth. As to Laura and her "stem cell won't help anyone" bit, I'm no fan.

George, meanwhile, lied to get us into war and cost us 1600 soldier's lives and 100,000 Iraqis. Ain't all bad? To each his own!

[charlyvi]

82. Oops.

Okay, a three dollar bill then.

:-)

[DanCa]

28. I am missing the point.

I would really like to sit down next to a Bush supporter break bread with him and find out why, without insults, the President has such loyality. I am looking for something deeper than President Bush's theocratic views. I am a Christian I go to church regularly but my understanding of the scriptures are the exact opposite of his.
I would really truly want a President that I can respect and admire but theirin lies the problem.
I once had a friend who was very pro republican and once he found out my political views he was very condescing at best and downright mean at worst. Note I am trying to be very diplomatic here and I think that's why were such a deeply divided nation. The right just keeps on insulting us on the most basic spiritual levels. How can we respect a President who openly insults us?
I think that's why John Mccain has a huge following. I am not crazy about everything he does but (as far as I know) he has never publicly insulted anyone for being a Democrat. Please no flaming I have tried very hard to be non partisan. And I have painstakingly spell checked too.
Have a gentle and peaceful and peaceful nite. Danny.

[Runcible Spoon]

29. "two daughters who seem to have some taste and decency to them"

:rofl:



hoo boy this should be in the LOUNGE it's so funny!

[libertypirate]

31. lied in order to pick a fight...

He is a fucking asshole there is no way around it. I don't hate him that is too much effort for that weasle. They are my enemy not because I dislike them, because they dislike me and don't care about us; a perdicament that I can't change.

[lady lib]

33. Sorry, but anyone who would send prisoners to Uzbekistan

under our rendition program - KNOWING how horrifically they treat people - is a monster. You can't spray enough perfume on this sack of shit.

Bush STILL Having Prisoners Tortured In Name Of Freedom
by Michael in New York - 4/30/2005 07:47:00 PM
http://www.americablog.org/

[MontageOfFreedom]

36. The interrogations are fake.

Even these interrogations are staged, but I feel sorry for any of the sick twisted people duped into the game.

[lady lib]

42. What? Read the link.

n/t

[MontageOfFreedom]

48. They are a setup though, according to the press. n/t

[lady lib]

51. Which ones? Not the ones in Uzbekistan.

Once again: read the link

[punpirate]

92. You are confusing several separate issues...

... the faking you refer to were dog and pony shows with a few compliant prisoners at Guantanamo for the benefit of visiting officials and Congressional people, to show them how effective Guantanamo was at getting information from their prisoners.

That's quite different than actually torturing people, as in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and Afghanistan, and quite different than shipping innocent people off to countries in which we know they will be tortured by even more despicable methods than we employ ourselves.

[MontageOfFreedom]

97. I'm well aware of that, however the news reports now.

That many of the interrogations were done as a ruse, and that these are not actual terrorists. I do not know without seeing witnesses come back from it, if these "interrogations" performed in the other states were even on real terrorists or were not using staged criminals.

That seems to go for all the prisons now, according to ACLU.

[punpirate]

112. Hardly...

... as a ruse. And yes, most weren't actual terrorists. Many who have resurfaced were innocent people who detained and beaten for months and then released because, of course, they didn't really know anything. There have been two cases recently that have hit the news--Arar, deported to Syria, who has filed suit and another, Khaled el-Masri, kidnapped and taken to he believes Afghanistan:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1459629,00.html

There were two other people documented as being illegally turned over to US agents in Sweden, who were taken to Egypt and were tortured there in Egyptian jails:

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2005/apr/04sweden-rendition-report.htm

As for the ACLU making the statement that it believes that the interrogations were done as a ruse, you'll have to explain further and provide a source. The issue was mock interrogations, which I have explained, I think.

I just did a complete search of the ACLU site and find nothing to suggest that the ACLU now thinks that many of the interrogations were done as a ruse, which implies there was no torture involved, nor that criminals were taken for interrogations which did not, in fact, occur.

The suggestion that you're making is that the ACLU is now saying that most interrogations were not actually interrogations, but were done simply for effect, perhaps for the purposes of getting other prisoners to talk voluntarily.

That flies in the face of considerable documented evidence from the ACLU, Human Rights Watch, and a number of other groups.

What has been documented, with regard to fake interrogations, is the statement of one witness:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15122310%255E1702,00.html

AUTHORITIES at Guantanamo Bay staged interrogations of detainees for visiting politicians and generals to give the impression that valuable intelligence was regularly being gathered, says a former US Army translator at the camp.

Sergeant Erik Saar told CBS television's 60 Minutes that he believed "only a few dozen" of the 600 detainees at the camp were terrorists and that little information was obtained from them.

"Interrogations were set up so the VIPs could come and witness an interrogation ... a mock interrogation, basically," Sgt Saar told the program, to air on Sunday.

"They would find a detainee that they knew to have been cooperative. They would ask the interrogator to go back over the same information," he said, calling it "a fictitious world" created for the visitors.



Note that the sergeant makes two unrelated statements. One, that some interrogations were faked to impress visitors. In the second, he says he thinks "a few dozen" of the detainees were terrorists, and the rest were innocent.

He does not say that only mock interrogations were done on those he thought were innocent. In fact, all of the released Guantanamo detainees who have spoken to the press (four Britons and one Australian) maintain they were tortured and/or abused during their stay at Guantanamo.

You imply that the interrogations (and by implication, most of the torture) was mostly faked, for effect, and I'd very much like to see the quote from the ACLU on that, because I doubt that's the specific intent of what they have said. There's far too much evidence collected otherwise, so far.

Cheers.

[MontageOfFreedom]

114. Actually this appears to be it...

In what I was saying before, the ACLU are suing the pentagon to release all the documents on the interrogations and there is a backlash of lawsuits against them for the interrogations.

However, the latimes or version thereof, reported that these were in fact faked interrogations done on non-terrorists in several prisons.

When I add all the parts together, this seems to be a case of mistaken journalism. Clearly the interrogations themselves were real, but the terrorists were not.

Perhaps this was just one of the propaganda pieces to keep the illusion going like was stated in today's long C-SPAN documentary.

[punpirate]

115. Certainly, with this administration...

... and this Pentagon, one has to assume that overt propaganda and/or news self-propagandizing is in play.

Any time there's some suggestion from this administration that torture didn't occur or doesn't appear to be what it is, one need only look at the evidence to date. Have they been truthful? No. Has torture occurred, and on a widespread basis? Yes.

My own guess is that the administration was taking an opportunity to spin, in its favor, yet more evidence that the whole bloody system was corrupt, and deflect the press from some of the more obvious evidence, such as this recent ACLU release:

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17515&c=206

Cheers.

[Erika]

40. Yeah, he contracts out torture

and then claims to be an innocent. Each day I give thanks to the Lord that it is one less day that Bush can harm our citizens.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

34. Bush is not qualified to run this country. eom.

[demgrrrll]

44. When he lost his first congressional race to a Christian he swore he

would "never be out-jesused again". I believe that was an honest comment. That is the basis of his faith.
Not much to recommend if you ask me.

[Erika]

37. Ah, this guy is going to cut SS for those making above $25,000

whle giving thousands of dollars in tax cuts to millionaires? He's the most UnChristian president we've ever had. He disgusts and sickens me.

[pnorman]

39. You may be right, in the narrow sense that he believes that he is.

But it's the sort of "Christian" that makes agnostics and even atheists of many other Christians. He's not really STUPID, but he appears to be incredibly SHALLOW. And he has a monstrous sense of entitlement, that his handlers play like a violin.

This observation by Eric Fromm, pretty well describes the sort of people he plays to: "There is perhaps no phenomenon which contains so much destructive feeling as 'moral indignation,' which permits envy or hate to be acted out under the guise of virtue."

pnorman

[Erika]

45. Erik Fromme's book

the Sane Society should be read by all.

[Jesus Saves]

53. That Fromm quote is a powerful observation

of human nature.

[pnorman]

93. I came on it by chance, and in an unlikely venue.

It's stuck with me ever since. Many years back, I had attempted to read his "Escape From Freedom", but gave it up repeatedly. But that quote showed me that he had the ability to make observations that are both deeply insightful and easy to grasp.

After coming across that phrase, I tried that book again. I got through it this time, but it was still DENSE. But some other of his books came a LOT easier. Particularly, I liked the distinction he made between BEING and HAVING. I came across on the web, a good collection of his quotes. They're now stored away in my PDA.

pnorman

[pnorman]

118. I can no longer edit my above posting,

so I'll do it here.

Here's a good summary of Eric Fromm, and an explanation of those BEING and HAVING concepts:

>
>
"To Have or To Be (1976) was Erich Fromm's last major work. In it he argues that two ways of existence were competing for 'the spirit of mankind' - having and being. The having mode looks to things and material possessions and is based on aggression and greed. The being mode is rooted in love and is concerned with shared experience and productive activity. The dominance of the having mode (as he argued in The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness) was bringing the world to the edge of disaster (ecological, social and psychological). Erich Fromm argued that only a fundamental change in human character 'from a preponderance of the having mode to a preponderance of the being mode of existence can save us from a psychological and economic catastrophe' (1976: 165) and set out some ways forward."
>
>
http://www.infed.org/thinkers/fromm.htm

pnorman

[elshiva]

41. Dubya scares the crap out of me.

[murielm99]

61. My twenty-one year old daughter startled me with her reaction

just before his press conference.

She said, "Oh, I am glad it is a just a press conference. Any time he is going to give a speech I get scared. I think he is going to announce World War III."

I don't think I have told her that he scares the crap out of me, but her reaction is the same as mine.

Bush is arrogant and self-centered. He has no regard for the welfare of anyone else. He seems to have no conscience. This is why he scares the crap out of me.

[elshiva]

66. Yes! He didn't need to even say "I'm declaring

World War III." What he said was scary enough. Just talk about Korea and Iran the same way he talked about Iraq pre-invasion. Also talk about nuclear power and missile defense systems sends a fucking scary threat, "Don't get near us or we'll blow up the world."

With Bush it's hard to separate man and message. As a religious person myself I try not to hate for siding with the homophobes and xenophobes, but my overwhelming feeling towards him is one of fear, not hate.

[grace0418]

43. Hmmmm...

Well, that's what's interesting about DU. We can agree to disagree. I don't think that he was born a monster, but I think he ended up that way. You say you don't think he's an idiot, but you say he's obtuse, callous and lacking in intellectual curiosity. To me, that sounds like an idiot. To-ma-to/to-mah-to I guess.

I personally think he's the worst and most dangerous kind of human because he's a lethal combination of stupid, cocky, greedy and powerful. He was fortunate enough to be born into a rich and powerful family, and he's callous and self-centered enough to think he deserves his good fortune. He's lazy, selfish and lacking in any kind of impulse control, empathy, remorse, or common sense.

He sees this country (and the world) as his plaything. If you look at his history with oil companies, baseball teams, and the running of Texas, you see the pattern emerge from way back. He thinks he's the guest of honor at a really great party at a really chummy club. He gives no thought to the consequences of his actions. He just does what he pleases and it's up to everyone else to bend to his whim. I often wonder if he isn't a sociopath, except that sociopaths are usually intelligent. Other than intelligence, though, he completely fits the profile of a sociopath.

Any man who could mock a woman on death row as she pleads for her life, who could yell "Bring it on!" as he sends our country's sons and daughters off to die based on pack of lies, who could behave the way he does and then claim he's a good Christian...I would call that man a monster in no uncertain terms.

As far as Laura and the twins are concerned, well I can't say I agree with you there either. Laura is supposed to be an educated woman. I know a few librarians, and they astound me with their expertise in a range of subjects. Without exception, all my friends who are librarians are extremely open-minded and worldly, because their thirst for knowledge is what leads them to their field. Then I hear Laura Bush speak. I guess she sounds smarter than Dubya, but that's not a really high standard. She also sounds dull, narrow-minded, closed off ... she sounds like a robot or a Stepford wife. I'm sorry but I don't see the substance of which you speak.

The girls, well, I try to cut them some slack because they're kids. But I think about how Chelsea Clinton behaved as a daughter of the President and it seems like a world of difference, especially considering how brutal the press was to her because she didn't look like a super-model when she was an adolescent. The few times I've seen the twins speak or interact in public, they seem shallow and spoiled, especially Jenna. There is a certain amount of poise and decorum that I would expect from these young ladies, and it's just not there. They seem as self-absorbed and clueless as dear old dad.

[Erika]

56. Yeah, Bush is a little banty rooster

who never had to work a day in his life or worry about bills. He simply has no connect to regular citizens.

[Syrinx]

57. I wish I could nominate a particular post for the "greatest" page

Very well said. Bravo.

[pnorman]

101. This is the best comment on this thread. It's worth saving.

There's a lot of other worthwhile comments here. It shows how how much can be accomplished by discussing with the flaming set to LOW. This is DU at it's best. I just voted to give it a recommendation.

pnorman

[leftchick]

135. Excellent post! I agree completely!

:applause:

I think Laura and the kids are much worse than the little glimpses we see of them. Self absorbed? I think the kids are spoiled rotten brats just like their dad. Laura has no substance what so ever. She is like a cardboard cut-out. The whole lot of them epitomize the dysfunctional family from poopy right on down to the grandkids.

[grace0418]

139. Wow, thanks all!

It's nice of you all to say!

[driver8]

47. He lied and took this country to war -- 1500+ dead, not to mention

civilian casualties.

Our country is attacked on 9/11 -- Mr "Not so stupid" sat there reading "My Pet Goat"

Shrub and his friends are raping this country and taking everything they can before their time is up.

Shrub thinks God talks to him.

Shrub is the most powerful man in the world (supposedly), but doesn't give a shit about the world around him. He doesn't read anything to become more informed -- instead, he prefers to stumble blindly like the imbecile that he is.

Shrub's SS plan is a farce to help his rich friends on Wall St. get richer. He knows it is all a scam, but he doesn't give a shit.

His tax cuts made the rich richer. To pay for these wonderful cuts, many social services and money for schools has been cut.

Shrub is a bully and a spoiled brat. He has turned the world against us, and threatens people if he doesn't get his way.

The man is stupid, ignorant, mean, egotistical, and just plain evil. I do not see any positive qualities in this weasel at all.

If your intention was to bait us, you did a good job because right now I am fuming...

[MontageOfFreedom]

52. That makes sense...

But he also is nothing but someone's plaything.

[wtmusic]

70. That pretty much sums it up

Incompetent, spoiled, petty, power-craven, insecure, dumb as a post. About the worst traits one could expect from any leader.

[WEagle]

75. collateral damage could be 100,000 civilians nt

[nedbal]

49. I agree with the original poster.....

There are many like * I know... yet I would not vote them into any higher office than dog catcher

[Jesus Saves]

59. Your sig line

"The left has long defined itself in opposition to the powerful. But it needs a story that is consistent with exercising power, and taking action."

Insightful observation....

[nedbal]

81. thank you, stolen, the link is in my profile

http://motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/05/05_200.html

[MontageOfFreedom]

67. I don't doubt there are many who aspire to be that way.

But that many that are like Bush, he is one of a kind in the outrageous misconceptions he makes. Absolutely exclusive in every way one could imagine.

[earth mom]

54. *= Sociopath. Laura= Stepford Wife. Twins= Spoiled Brats. Nuff said. nt

[Erika]

63. You are referring to the GOP elitists who never worked a day

in their live's and have no plans on ever doing so. It's called the Bush way. His girls are severely lacking in any social value.

[Wizard777]

62. Even if Bush did find WMD's. He's still a war criminal.

Iraq did not attack us. That would only provided a ground upon which to argue the Bush doctrine of premptive strike. Currently the only accepted, but not ratified, use of a premptive strike is to prevent nuclear war. The days in which nuclear wars could and were won are long gone. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the first and last. Nuclear proliferation has made nuclear war a no win situation. The only possible way to win a nuclear war is to prevent it. Medical advances can render both vio and chem weapon practically useless. Which leads me to wonder if Bush's stance against stem cell research is to preserve the threat of bio/chem weapons?

[Erika]

71. Christ's Golden Rule is opposite of Bush's pre-emptive strike

mandate. That simple.

[wtmusic]

74. Not only Christ's

these are "acts which have been regarded as criminal since the time of Cain, and have been so written in every civilized code." - Nuremburg Judge Robert Jackson

[wtmusic]

65. I've been hearing the "George got bad advice" line a lot lately

and all it makes me think is that it's not Dubya who's wearing the blinders :eyes:

[MontageOfFreedom]

72. That point is very underscored. It rings clear. n/t

[WEagle]

76. well now I know Kinky Friedman must be an a-hole

thanks for that, if it's true.

[Sapphire Blue]

80. And this viper isn't venomous...

Bush Viper

Adult Maroon-banded Atheris squamigera.

As with all of the Atheris species, little in known about their venom composition. Though often considered to be mild in the past, there have been deaths reported from bush viper bites. There is no antivenin manufactured and existing antivenin seem to have little effect in Atheris bites, although it has been reported that antivenin for Echis sp. may help a bit. Poor blood coagulation may require blood transfusions.

http://www.corallus.com/atheris/squamigera.html

[ogradda]

95. I think you're wrong.

He is monstrous. And evil. I will grant you it MAY be a by product of his total lack of compassion, his greed, selfcenteredness, callousness and selfishness but the end result is monstrous and evil. One thing we as adults have to learn is that our actions have consequences. He has never had to learn that - others pay the consequences for him. Over and over again. And personally I believe that his simply paying lip service to christianity does not absolve him.

[rodeodance]

100. I believe Jr identifies himself as a good Christian.-and his inciuriosity

makes him a dangerous man in the position he is in--as the leader of a powerful military complex.


From the first post:
...He really sees himself as a Christian. However his lack of intellectual curiousity and meaningful introspection doesn't allow him to see how obtuse he can truly be......

[NightOwwl]

102. When he was a child he stuffed firecrackers down frog's throats

and watched them blow up for kicks. When he was in college he defended the practice of branding pledges with red-hot coat hangers. When he was governor of Texas he mocked ("please don't kill me ha-ha") a born-again woman on death row when she asked to have her sentence reduced. When he was selected pResident he sent troops to die in a war based on lies.

So I'm sorry but I just can't agree with your analysis. If you are interested in discovering more about Bush's character there is a wealth of information here: http://www.blogd.com/archives/cat_bush_and_character.html

[yellozebra]

103. He made a reckless career choice, when he sobered up.

If he had papal-like ambitions, I couldn't care less. His Christian conviction appears to be just about the only thing he knows. He shoulda been a priest.

As president, he is either winging it, or lying.

He's not leadership material for even a tinpot state, let alone the most powerful country on earth.

Whatever, he's obscenely incompetent with a battalion of power.

It's scary.

[punpirate]

106. Well, Kinky Friedman smokes cigars...

... would you, because he does?

But, let's take your relevant points in order:

"In most ways I can't stand him. But I don't think he's an idiot, nor do I think he's a human monster."

This is a man who planned war since before he was president, and who has been quoted, before the 2000 election, as saying that being a war president earns one political capital. Tens of thousands of people have died, completely unnecessarily, and many more imprisoned, and many more left without enough to eat or have been displaced from their homes. This man lied about the war, before, during and after its start, and from some of the film on the night he announced its beginning, reveled in it. I think that's the definition of a monster, but the human part is still debatable.

"I think he's cold and callous in a lot of ways. However, I think he really believes what he says. I think he really bought the whole right wing schtick hook line and sinker."

It's not a schtick to him. That was the way he was raised--to think that people with money were better than people without. He managed to go through six years at two different Ivy League schools without being touched by anything, so it doesn't really matter if he believes what he says--he's still a heartless asshole of the first order.

"He really sees himself as a Christian. However his lack of intellectual curiousity and meaningful introspection doesn't allow him to see how obtuse he can truly be."

I have my doubts about his sincerity, but only because it's marginally more comforting to think we have a cynic in the White House, rather than a religious lunatic. But, there's no doubt that, with Rove's help, he's used that religion for entirely political purposes. That's anti-religious, and it's anti-democratic.

"I think his choice of Laura as a wife shows he has some sort of substance. I think Laura is a decent person. I'm not saying she's world shattering or anything, just not a bad person and probably a lot more insightful in a lot of ways than her husband. I know she's a Bob Dylan fan."

Let's back up a minute. Laura's a lot like Bush. At seventeen, she was responsible for the death of her former boyfriend through vehicular homicide. There was no investigation because her father was one of the very wealthy people in a very wealthy town. She skated on that--just as Bush had done with all his early transgressions--and like most wealthy people, work was a distraction until she got bored with it. The press talks frequently about her "careers" as a teacher and a librarian. As I recall, those "careers" spanned a total of three years after college. Truthfully, I can't think of her saying anything meaningful in the six years she's been in the national spotlight.

"I know she raised two daughters who seem to have some taste and decency to them."

Now, then, on that you'll get some disagreement from many here, mostly because her twins have been behaving like typical spoiled rich kids for most of their father's time in office. One doesn't walk into a Texas bar and demand to be served with a fake ID and expect the Secret Service to look the other way unless one has the same sort attitude about the little people as one's parents.

"So George ain't all bad. He's just obtuse and unable to see around the corners. He willfully wears blinders."

Before you start making excuses for the man, you owe it to yourself to read just three books:

Bush on the Couch: Inside the Mind of the President
by Justin A. Frank, MD

Cruel and Unusual
Mark Crispin Miller

The Lies of George W. Bush
David Corn

"I'm not saying I don't get pissed. I often get red hot mad. Like when I saw him and all those other old white men signing that Bankruptcy bill. They were all laughing about it, cracking jokes. Bush was doing that cackle of his. I got pissed, real pissed, more pissed than I'd been in a long time. He just doesn't get it. Doesn't understand. Obtuse and callous."

Nope, he gets it. But, I'm not sure you do, because you think he doesn't. He doesn't give a rat's ass about anybody. Remember, the little people? That's the problem with him and everyone with whom he's surrounded himself; they are all so dedicated to an ideology they care about nothing else. That's inhuman, indecent, and utterly corrupt. It's far from being obtuse.

Cheers.

[Erika]

108. You've said it all

We have an elitist president who holds the working class in contempt.

[Psephos]

109. This is a good post n/t

[PowerToThePeople]

116. when I was young

edit- bah I don't like to break rules.

[Frederik]

117. No, he's certainly not Christian

It's an act, and he doesn't even do it well. Without it, he wouldn't have been president (it's not like he has any qualifications, after all, except his pedigree).

[VOX]

119. And Mussolini wasn't all bad because he made the trains run on time.

Sorry, but * is the most dangerous man to ever pilot the ship of state, and that's factoring in the assistance of his puppet-masters, Cheney and Rove. * is as stubborn as hell, and he's thick as thieves with some of the most ruthless, calculating, heartless, hateful, criminal, un-Christian, power-mad, lying, deceitful people on the planet. He and his cronies are running this country -- our country -- down into the toilet. His choices are creating more poverty and misery in the U.S. than ever before. He is driving the nation's wealth up into a tiny percentage, while the rest of us do without, more and more -- and the middle class is disappearing. He has not, and will not, attend even *one* funeral or memorial service for any GI who's made the ultimate sacrifice in the premptive, unilateral war waged in Iraq. Not to mention the 100,000+ Iraqi civilian deaths.

In spite of his "impish humor" (per Elizabeth Bumiller of the NYT), he is indeed all bad, certainly regarding the direction he's taken this country. His actions (and inactions) have clearly said "fuck you" to the greater percentage of people in this country, and the world at large.

He gets **no** slack here. :grr:

[Skittles]

120. he is dumber than a box of hammers

I live in Texas and have had to put up with his idiocy for many, many years. And don't even get me started on that insipid piece of shit wife of his.

[cornermouse]

121. Real christians do not

1. lie

2. declare pre-emptive strikes

3. take access to medicine, housing, and food away from the poor, elderly, and disabled

4. orchestrate character assassination of anyone unlucky enough to be in his way repeatedly

5. make plans for his friends to profit from war and death

6. try to make the church into a political organization and religious leaders into king makers. That violates a little something about God's kingdom being in heaven, not earth and is pretty much a replay of the church leaders in biblical times.

There are a lot more examples which clearly indicate that Bush is not a christian. I just don't want to spend the time listing them. In my opinion, he's cynically using the church to support his political and personal wealth building objectives. What I find difficult to accept is the fact that a lot of good christians refuse to see him for what he really is.

[mopaul]

122. i'm goin' with human monster

and laura sucks

[ima_sinnic]

123. yeah, right. give the lying sack of #%(* a break. NOT!!

he has done nothing, NOTHING, to earn my respect or a "pass."
his "Christianity" is as PHONY as he is.
who knows how many hundreds of thousands have suffered and died because of this spawn of Satan? HE HAS PEOPLE IN GULAGS, ferchrissakes, PEOPLE BEING TORTURED. gee, that's real "Christian"!!
He has turned this country into warring camps while his greedhead friends split the spoils of the national treasury and count their WAR PROFITS. The country is BANKRUPT. He should be tried for treason and put before a firing squad at The Hague.
Take your lovey-dovey CRAP over to the "other board" where they like to lick the @$$ of murderous, lying, warmongering FASCISTS.

[mopaul]

124. basically a nice guy?...NOT

basically a huge asshole

[GaYellowDawg]

125. I disagree.

He's very similar to lots of white upper middle class or rich Southern fundamentalists that I've seen down here. The fundamentalist will go to church on Sunday, and perhaps on Wednesday. He might even be an usher or a deacon, collecting the offering.

He'll frown on drinking - unless it's him and the boys knocking back expensive whiskey. He'll frown on sex - unless it's him and his secretary. He'll frown on bad language - unless he uses it on the golf course. He'll frown on the poor - it's their fault. He won't hire anyone darker than a certain shade, or with an accent different from his - aren't they really heathen?

Their words might worship Christ, but their actions worship a much... well... greener god. Call them
¢hri$tian$. They know the parable of the talents, but ignore the parable of the Good Samaritan. They will quote Paul a lot more than Jesus. They'll tell you that the Bible is inerrant and literal in one breath and then say that the verse "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" is either a mistranslation or an allusion in another. And they really ignore this:

Matthew 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites : for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

That's Bush. Head of the ¢hri$tian$. The pope to Al Franken's Supply Side Jesus. But he's no Christian.

And as for Laura Bush - I honestly don't see anything of substance there. Completely vapid. And a Bob Dylan fan? Shoot, even a blind squirrel can find a nut.

Speaking of vapid, their two girls aren't decent and tasteful. When they spoke at the Republican convention, I would have thought they were 14 or 15, not college graduates. Their girls are just like dear old dad - rules about decency or taste won't start applying until they start applying them to others. You want to see women of decency and taste, look no farther than the Kerry or Gore daughters.

[democrank]

126. "So George ain`t all bad" say you?

And the Bush daughters "seem to have some taste and decency" in your opininion? Great. Let`s give them all a standing ovation.

George Bush lies. He thinks it`s okay to torture people. He seems to think the working class has one purpose on earth...to serve the people who really count.

How is his military record looking? How did he conduct himself with Harken Energy? Who was taking his place at home during his years of hanging off a bar stool? How much volunteer work or work for the public good did he do prior to 2000? How did he get into the National Guard? Yale? Is he a bully? Do his actions match his words? Has he ever been wired for a debate? Does he keep tax-paying Democrats out of his "town hall" meetings?

Folks can color him swell all they want. In my opinion he`s a dangerous man whose grandiose rhetoric is as useless as a crisp, new bow laid over the top of a time bomb.

[Minstrel Boy]

128. "Don't get me wrong..."

Yeah, no problem. :eyes:

[KG]

130. put down the kool-aid: George IS all bad.

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

132. Your guy, Jesus, said it best --

"By their fruits ye shall know them."

[Lerkfish]

137. AMEN! and AMEN!

[cornermouse]

134. Oh yeah. I should have added

Real christians do not condone torture. The fact that Bush does condone, aid and abet torture is a clear statement of just how much christian faith he actually does embrace. None.

[Lerkfish]

136. He's completely evil. Don't know why anyone would feel differently.

I honestly don't. Sometimes I feel like (in real life, not DU) that a massive dose of SOMA has been introduced into the water supply, because otherwise "rational" people and I view the same press conference and I can see every lie in stark detail and all they think is "he handled himself well".

[Walt Starr]

138. He is the most evil human on the face of the planet. End of story, n/t

[Cleita]

140. Aw come on. Underneath that exterior is a truly

mean, shallow little man. Remember him mocking Karla Faye Tucker? That's the real Bush. As for Laura, underneath all that molasses sweetness is a person who is truly vapid and unconcerned about anyone but herself and her own. If there ever was an American Eva Braun or Marie Antoinette, Laura is it.

"Have some cake honey, you all. Oops I forgot, Ms. Beasley hasn't had her cake yet, so give it back."

[donco6]

143. I truly believe he's an idiot.

Watching the debates gives plenty of cause to believe that.

[applegrove]

144. Take one policy. His policy on not using condoms for safe sex means

that there is a limit to how much can be done to stop the spread of aids in Africa. By being against it and leading the way.. and saying that 1/3 of Aids cash has to go to abstinence - he lets millions of African women get aids (women who are married, monogamous, but whose husbands are not). These women often have no or little choice in who they marry.

You are an evil person if you regularly put political needs (the bond with the Christian right) ahead of good information. He is the president of the United States. If he poo - poos real research and information at the cost of lives.. he is sick. Carter never did that despite his obvious religious devotion.

He is a monster.

[jazzjunkysue]

145. Bush is a murderer. And says God talks to him and tells him to murder.

And you can really convince yourself that he's just a little flawed, but still a christian?

Read harper's magazine and see how he decided to invade Iraq a few weeks after taking office the first time, way before 9/11 and then come in here and tell us we're wrong.

You're being used by a Hitler. You're helping a mass murderer.

Have a nice christian day.

[sweetheart]

146. he's a mass murdering, loathsome criminal

He's worse than charles manson, and all common criminals... he's a high
criminal... and geez, i've no respect for such human filth.. no matter
what PR exercise they're selling.

[peace4all]

148. YES HE IS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spanone]

147. I think he's a political Christian. Christian when it counts.

Just like he's a rancher. It's politically advantageous.

[Stephanie]

149. You're so predictable

:boring:

[ultraist]

154. Yep!

Yet another, "DU libruls are bad" thread.

:rofl:

[mmonk]

150. All bad

Worst threat to our democracy in my lifetime.

[ultraist]

151. Maybe Bush does believe what he says

He may well be a pathological liar. He is likely a sociopath.

Mr. "pull the plug on poor black children" but fight for keeping white fundies alive, MASS MURDERER, LIAR, does not get a pass based on some assumption that he "believes what he says."

Actions speak louder than words. I don't care if he does believe his born again rhetoric, although I doubt he does. He will go down in history as the WORST PRESIDENT EVER.

I'm not one bit surprised that you posted this, Jesus Saves:

"I think he believes what he says."

"I think his choice of Laura as a wife shows he has some sort of substance."

"I know she raised two daughters who seem to have some taste and decency to them."

"So George ain't all bad."

:eyes: "George" IS all bad. And we only know PART of the story. Frankly, I'm surprised that he has not been assassinated, he is so hated across the globe.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

152. The friend of my enemy is my enemy. Save posts like that for....

...the NeoCon rightwing goose-steppers...they'll love you.

Herr George is part of a long line of Nazi-loving eugenicists who will stop at nothing to achieve their ends. Is that what you want?

You like him? You can have him and all of the rest of his NeoCon fascists.

Angry? Not half as angry as your post has gotten me.

[Bouncy Ball]

153. As soon as I read what you wrote,

I checked your profile.

[Stephanie]

155. LOL!

Where ya been, BB? What took ya so long?

[Bouncy Ball]

161. I don't even know WHAT to say to this thread.

I mean, bush is responsible for manufacturing a war on another country BASED ON LIES and is responsible for the deaths of THOUSANDS of innocent people as a result and I'm supposed to believe he's not such a bad guy?

That is just completely SICK. He's one of the most evil people in power today. I rank him right up there (or down there) with the worst of the worst.

[ultraist]

156. I've seen these same type of threads before...

:spray:

[bloom]

157. he is a lying fascist....

I think people who give him any credit are living in la la land.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

158. wEIrd world

Where the first thing I find on GD is an apology for Bush. I don't give a rat's ass if he's honest or not about his beliefs. He pushes stupidity, he may be stupid himself or disingenuous and thus pure evil. Probably the latter. I don't want to know what goes on in his head. Laura looks like a mean doped-up clown to me, I don't see all these great qualities you do, she raised her daughters to be tramps and married... that. Bush has the face of a true conniver and the demeanor of a nasty little boy who has been handed too much control over people and intends to use it as sadistically as possible. If you look at him and think he's okay, I probably don't want you in my house either.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chlamor]

159. None of what was posted is the point

This fascist has the power-Of course Dick and Co. really have the power- to slaughter thousands. He has done so. To the Hague.

What a crock



“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories … And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." —Washington, D.C., May 30, 2003

[moddemny]

163. I myself disagree with a lot of views

I see on DU on a number of topics......

But Bush is definitely an idiot....... any sympathy I have for him is that it he seems too stupid at times to notice himself being manipulated by those around him.

[bruised]

165. CNN exit polls - now all back AS THEY WERE on Election Night !

Not yet, but they are here on: http://www.exitpollz.org/Nat_P.html
1/ Also.. Select any State (below SEARCH FOR EXIT POLLS)
2/ Then Click on GO

I am putting it here again in reply to 91, 94, 96, and any who think that Bush won the election.

This was originally posted on http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=364133

Please post the http://www.exitpollz.org/Nat_P.html link on other sites in order to get more coverage. Also see www.electionarchive.org and www.exitpollz.org home for more analysis.

In my opinion the question is W is a nice guy or not, is irrelevant.
He was chosen to be the "nice guy" for public consumption by those in the background who make the real decisions.