Gen. Hugh Shelton on Clark

[newsguyatl]

"What do you think of General Wesley Clark and would you support him as a presidential candidate," was the question put to him by moderator Dick Henning, assuming that all military men stood in support of each other. General Shelton took a drink of water and Henning said, "I noticed you took a drink on that one!"

"That question makes me wish it were vodka," said Shelton. "I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my vote."

http://www.losaltosonline.com/articles/2003/09/23/news/community/news01.txt

[StephNW4Clark]

1. Duplicate thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=396465

FYI - Shelton and his colleague Defense Secretary Cohen are in fact Republicans. Scroll down to the bottom of the article for Shelton's glowing praise of George W. Bush as well.

[newsguyatl]

2. yeh

his glowing praise of bush is about as sickening as clark's just after the war.

[returnable]

And about as sickening...

...as Dean's praise of the Gingrich Revolution.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. Dean PRAISED the Gingrich Revolution?!?

WTF? can I see that in print please? :wtf:

[dfong63]

23. i don't know if Dean did so, but Kerry did

MTP transcript w/ Sen Kerry
``...
MR. RUSSERT: But there’s a lot of discussion in the ’90s about you trying to cast off some of the orthodoxy of the Democratic Party, being described as a New Democrat. What caught a lot of people’s attention was the 1994 election, when the Republicans won both houses of Congress, Newt Gingrich became speaker of the House, and this is what you told the Boston Herald: “Sen. John F. Kerry broke from Democratic Party ranks, saying he was ‘delighted’ by the GOP election purge and laying the blame on the doorstep of President Clinton and arrogant House leaders. ...‘I want this change. I’m delighted with seeing an institutional shakeup because I think we need one,’ Kerry said in a Herald interview. ‘The Democrats have articulated in the last two years a very poor agenda. It’s hard for me to believe that some of these guys could have been as either arrogant or obtuse as to not know where the American people were coming from.’ Kerry deliberately set himself apart from Kennedy...He said Kennedy and Clinton’s insistence on pushing health care reform was a major cause of the Democratic Party’s problems at the polls. When told his calls for ‘change’ did not match Kennedy’s re-election rhetoric, Kerry smiled and said: ‘I’m amazed people didn’t pick up on it.’”

MR. RUSSERT: You were clearly separating yourself from Clinton and from Kennedy on the issue of health care...

SEN. KERRY: I was upset, Tim.

MR. RUSSERT: ...and delighted by Newt Gingrich?

SEN. KERRY: No, I was upset at what had happened in 1994. (snip)
Sometimes in politics and in life you take a different course from what’s expected of you. That’s leadership. I expressed a point of view of frustration and anger at the time. President Clinton, amazingly, turned around, did a number of extraordinary things, you know, came back from the 1994—and, you know, if you look at what Newt Gingrich said in his speech and then look at what he did, they were two different things.
...''

others have claimed Dean said something similar at the time, but AFAIK that's unsubstantiated so far.

[wyldwolf]

27. I can't find a reference on it BUT...

In the midst of the so-called Republican Revolution, Howard Dean actually agreed with the Gingrich Republicans," Gephardt charged, referring to the controversial House speaker of that time, Newt Gingrich of Georgia. " home state newspaper reported time and again how Howard Dean supported turning Medicare into a managed-care program."


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gephardt13sep13000422,0,3330919.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

[jayfish]

7. Your Ability To Continually Misinterpret What Clark Was..

saying after "major combat" operations ended, even after it has been explained in several other posts, is puzzling. I just don't get it. It is one thing to not like a candidate but it is quite another to continually trash him(her) at EVERY opportunity. Why don't you concentrate on pointing out the good things about YOUR candidate?

Jay

[dfong63]

26. not puzzling at all

Your Ability To Continually Misinterpret What Clark Was saying after "major combat" operations ended, even after it has been explained in several other posts, is puzzling.

not really puzzling. maybe newsguyatl doesn't buy the explanations, as is his right. just because Condi or Rummy "explain" something doesn't mean that i have to buy it, and just because i continue to question their spin doctoring doesn't mean that i've "misinterpreted" anything. the same goes for Clark's spin doctoring.

Why don't you concentrate on pointing out the good things about YOUR candidate?

it's called "free speech". pointing out the positives AND negatives of all the candidates is our patriotic duty. and it's especially important to point out the negatives of a guy who spent his entire career in the military, where criticism of higher-ups is discouraged and punished.

[diplomats]

14. I know you don't like Clark, newsguy, and that's your right

but using criticism of him by a Republican smells of desperation. If a Repuke criticized Howard Dean, would that make you think less of him? Of course not, and it wouldn't affect my opinion either. If you want to raise questions about Clark, I'm sure you can do a lot better than this. :)

[meegbear]

3. And in a related story ...

Kerry, the four-term senator from Massachusetts, got the nod from former Gov. Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, the state that hosts the nation's first presidential primary, and from former Clinton Cabinet member Aida Alvarez, a well-known figure in the Hispanic community.

<snip>

"It's better to have this endorsement than not have it," said Linda Fowler, director of the Nelson A. Rockefeller Center at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire. "Or, more accurately, it's better to have it than for someone else to have it."

That "someone else" is former Gov. Howard Dean of Vermont ....

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/clips/news_2003_0924c.html

[jayfish]

4. "Integrity and Character Issues"=

not toeing the secretary of defenses line or in other words not being a good little soldier when his opinion of and recommendations on the situation on the ground didn't match that of the civilian command.

Jay

[Orangepeel]

5. this sounds like a plus to me...

Who's this Shelton guy? Is he somebody I should care about?

[Pltcl_jnky]

6. he

was Clinton's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff!!!

if made into a big deal could maybe, maybe be a chink in Clark's military armor. His firing by the Clinton administration will become a huge issue before it is all said and done.

[StephNW4Clark]

8. Sidney Blumenthal: Clinton's War with the Generals

Read Clinton's account. In his own words, Clinton admits to being out-maneuvered by Pentagon officials who didn't like Clark's questioning of lack of military intervention in Rwanda and tactical concerns about Kosovo. No doubt this will be brought up, but at least get the entire story.

[Pltcl_jnky]

18. yes and those tactical disagreements

were that Clark wanted to forcibly remove the Russian Military from the airport they took over in Kosovo and the Pentagon thought active military removal of Russia might be a bad thing.

that and clark kept trying to make his case on TV instead of through the channels which pissed off the pentagon and a certain Defense Secretary

[tjdee]

12. And then Clinton himself will come out and say he likes Clark.

And that will be that.

[OKNancy]

9. Bush lover

Bush is doing a great job according to Shelton

[oasis]

16. woop, there it is.

[Renew Deal]

10. General Barry McCaffrey said:

"He is probably among the top five most talented men I've met in my life," said Barry McCaffrey, another retired general. - AFP
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,7305163%255E663,00.html

[dfong63]

22. if you want to discount Gen Shelton's views because he's a repub,

then Gen McCaffrey's views should also be discounted.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. .....

deleted by the author...

[tjdee]

11. Now that Hackworth likes Clark, we move on to another General?

Clark just can't win with some people.

First, he's too much a part of the scaaaarrrryyyy military complex. Now, it's the military complex doesn't like him!

First, Hackworth doesn't like him! Now he does, shucks.

OOHHH, General Shelton doesn't like him!

Shall we make a running list of who supports who? Shall we go around asking each governor what they think of Dean?

[Clark Can WIN]

13. Hackworth on Clark

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34738

"For sure, he'll be strong on defense. But with his high moral standards and because he knows where and how the game's played, there will probably be zero tolerance for either Pentagon porking or two-bit shenanigans.

No doubt he's made his share of enemies. He doesn't suffer fools easily and wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even cut the White House lawn. So he should prepare for a fair amount of dart-throwing from detractors he's ripped into during the past three decades.

Hey, I am one of those: I took a swing at Clark during the Kosovo campaign when I thought he screwed up the operation, and I called him a "Perfumed Prince." Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was wrong – the blame should have been worn by British timidity and William Cohen, U.S. SecDef at the time."

[w13rd0]

15. Ok, I've come to a conclusion about Clark...

...at least the conclusion and perception I'll be watching the debate wearing. Clark is a different approach to try and capture the interest and vote of a certain segment of the population. I'll grant that it's a novel approach, and will likely find some success, and I'm thrilled for that. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we live in the most interesting of times.

[Zuni]

17. Shelton is a has been

He was a good commander, but now he is trying to suck up to the CinC, trying to keep a cushy job.
I heard Rumsfeld has been pretty ruthless in cutting down independence in the military brass.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Why is it a surprise

that Shelton wouldn't vote for W again?

Why not ask Shelton if he would vote for any of the other 9 candidates? My guess is that he wouldn't vote for any of them.

[knowledgeispower]

20. All the more reason to support Clark

Shelton is a neocon repuke to his very core. I would be concerned if such a person WAS a fan of Clark's.

[ShaneGR]

24. Well gees, I wonder who is a Republican?

I wonder.

[wyldwolf]

25. Clark not popular with the military? No big news there...

To all on both sides of the political spectrum who are (gleefully?) pointing out that Clark was not "popular" with the military:

Clark was not popular with the upper Pentagon brass because...

1. Such liberal/progressive views like humanitarian missions and nation building for the military made the Pentagon uneasy...

Despite his credentials as a warrior - 34 years in the Army, including a Silver Star, two Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart earned in Vietnam - {Clark} argues that the U.S. military must learn how to perform such nontraditional functions as peacekeeping and even nation-building, because that's what it will be doing in the 21st century, like it or not. And, since it's no small task to turn gung-ho soldiers into order-keeping policers, it's all the more urgent that the entire military start rethinking its doctrine immediately.

Paradigm-shifting views such as these did not make Clark popular with his superiors at the Pentagon, including former Secretary of Defense William Cohen.

www.newamerica.net/

2. Wesley Clark welcomes homosexuals in the military

I'm not sure that I'd be in favor of policy. I supported that policy. That was a policy that was given. I don't think it works. It works better in some circumstances than it does in others. But essentially we've got a lot of gay people in the armed forces, always have had, always will have. And I think that, you know, we should welcome people that want to serve. - MSNBC

Former NATO supreme commander Wesley Clark says it is time for the ban on gays in the military to be lifted.

www.gaypasg.org/

3. Clark was/is too intelligent for the military "culture."

...General Barry McCaffrey told the Washington Post: "This is no insult to army culture ... but he was way too bright, way too articulate, way too good looking and perceived to be way too wired to fit in with our culture."

Quoted in "Clark aims for the Wes Wing"
www.guardian.co.uk/