Are you diggin this shit

[LibertyorDeath]

"Investigators also found personal documents bearing the names of two of the other men near seats on the Aldgate and Edgware lines. Police did not identify the men."

That's right ladies & gentlemen the bombers were considerate enough
to bring along personal identifying documents.

and although the explosions were so powerful they did this

"Forensics experts have said it could take days or weeks to identify the bodies many of which were blown apart and would have to be identified through dental records or DNA analysis. Investigators said late Tuesday that 11 bodies have been identified."

The documents survived intact.

Can ya dig it!

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050713/ap_on_re_eu/britain_bombings

[wake.up.america]

1. I am lke diggin the clown suit. Dude, this like totally mega Awesome!!!!

[LibertyorDeath]

4. Thanx Snag it if you want

:toast:

[Lori Price CLG]

2. Yeah, and the (paper) passports of the 9/11 'hijackers' survived, but not

the Black Boxes, ROFL!!!

:eyes:

Lori Price

[madeline_con]

7. "... passports of the 9/11 'hijackers' ..."

I was going to mention those, and the way they floated unscathed to earth by the feet of the investigators.

A British online firend mention Blair being "bribed" long ago. Are these guys on the bandwagon w/*?

[LibertyorDeath]

8. Exactly this is just unreal to me. How much more of this do they expect

us to swallow.

The name alone is like something out of an Austin Powers movie

"The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe"

""The Secret" give me a frickin break.

Good to see you Lori

[Kool Kitty]

3. Reminds me of the announcement

that they had found Atta's passport, intact and unburnt, in the rubble surrounding the WTC. Or was it his visa?

[FreedomAngel82]

23. Passport

It was his passport. Yeah seven out of eight box's that are meant to survive through all types of distruction goes but not a piece of paper? Uh huh. :eyes: Please! If anybody here hasn't seen the documentary "Loose Change" I recommend it for sure.

[Solly Mack]

5. The other day, another DU'er wondered if identifying documents would be

found in this case as well.

[madeline_con]

9. "... identifying documents ..."

You'd think they'd come up with something original. It plays like a teen horror flick.

[The Magistrate]

6. Paper Often Comes To Little Harm, Sir

It is not a thing to be broken by blast, and the flash of a high explosive detonation does not in itself have much incendiary effect: it is hot, but does not last more than an instant. Concussion often blows clothing off of bodies, and empties pockets and such.

[LibertyorDeath]

10. Well I'm not an explosives expert but it's awfully convenient.

This was especially nice of them.

" the bombers were considerate enough
to bring along personal identifying documents."

[The Magistrate]

11. Most People Carry Their Wallets, Sir

Those who do this sort of thing often want to be identified, and suicides in general do the most surprisingly mundane and routine things before the act....

[LibertyorDeath]

14. Does not mention Wallets say's "personal documents"

"investigators also found personal documents bearing the names of two of the other men"

That sounds like something other than a Wallet.

Maybe they were thoughtful enough to bring along their Birth Certificate or Passports

Maybe a Utility bill with their name address & phone #.

This is my starting point " All Governments Lie & All Politicians are Liars.

[The Magistrate]

16. Merely Officialese, Sir

For things like a driver's lisence or whatnot; such things are documents. Of course, it is possible more detail will emerge with later reports and upset that perception of mine...

[dogday]

35. How was it that the documents were not ruined?

how were they able to match the bodies with the bombs with the documents?

[LibertyorDeath]

51. "how were they able to match the bodies with the bombs with the documents"

Good question. DNA maybe if you believe the document find is legit.

[City Lights]

37. I'd like to learn more about suicide bombers wanting to be identified.

Those who do this sort of thing often want to be identified

Do you have a link where I could read more about this?

Thanks.

[northzax]

42. the best example

lies in Palestine/Israel, where suicidal bombers often leave video-taped confessions behind.

what's the point of being a martyr if no one knows about it?

[LibertyorDeath]

54. Exactly they don't leave the video tape in their pocket while they blow

themselves up.

I'm sure there's a good reason for that.

[northzax]

56. you don't have ID handy?

I know I keep my metro card in my wallet, handy for taking the train. It's not like they needed to keep their identities secret, right? you want to do what's normal, to not attract any attention until you detonate your bomb. So you carry a wallet. Why bother with a fake ID? they going to glue you back together, reanimate you and put you in jail?

[beam me up scottie]

59. "they going to glue you back together, reanimate you and put you in jail?"

:rofl:

[tavalon]

66. I'm not buying it

because it would be ludricrous for the bombers to give immediate feedback on their identity because then the trail back to the higher ups is still hot. Whereas, if it takes a few days to ID these bombers, the trail is much more covered and the people who orchestrated it can still claim credit while avoiding apprehension.

[Pepperbelly]

69. why wouldn't they?

No one's going to file charges against them or anything.

[City Lights]

70. I was thinking they wouldn't have strong feelings either way.

I guess, though, if I wanted to ensure my identity be known, videotape would be the way to go. It's much more dramatic. I wouldn't count on my ID being found in the aftermath.

[Swamp Rat]

12. Did they have to go through check points?

If they did, then they would need some sort of ID... which also could be fake.

[The Magistrate]

13. That Is Another Possibility, Sir

[LibertyorDeath]

17. There are all kinds of possibilities & that includes this one IMO

It's the oldest trick in the book, dating back to Roman times; creating the enemies you need.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

39. And Yet, Sir

As they say, even paranoids have enemies, and so do governments.

One of the things that interests me in this line of argument is that it would seem to me we are all in agreement here that large portions of the world, including the Moslem world, have deep and legitimate grievances against governments of the West, and yet attacks against these governments and their societies are explained away as the creation of those governments, and it is denied that they are in any way actions intended to bring home those deep and legitmate grievances by the persons we are agreed do indeed hold them.Tthe basis for this is unclear to me. Are we to believe that there is some deep commitment to pacifism that prevenmts these people from taking any violent action? Even a cursory knowledge of the cultures and history involved would suggest otherwise. Are we to believe that people from these cultures are incapable of successfully executing such actions in the face of Western security skills? That smacks of a certain attitude toward non-Western peoples we are all also, here, very much opposed to, yourself included, doubtless.

It is indeed, Sir, a riddle wrapped in an enigma....

[northzax]

43. two points to griffindor. (nt)

[LibertyorDeath]

15. Not that I know of the article does not mention check points

"Police raided six homes in Leeds searching for explosives and computer files that would shed more light on what were believed to be the first suicide bombings in Western Europe. They arrested a man, identified by the British news agency Press Association as a relative of one of the suspected bombers.

A town councilor told The Associated Press that at least three of the presumed suicide bombers were British citizens of Pakistani ancestry."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050713/ap_on_re_eu/britain_bombings

[City Lights]

26. What type of checkpoints do you mean?

I visited London a week before the blasts and rode the tube everywhere. The only thing I needed was my ticket. I didn't even need to show my passport when entering Northern Ireland from Ireland.

[tk2kewl]

34. very true

I have friends who picked up memos and canceled checks from the WTC that drifted on the air into Brooklyn

although I would suppose, if this is the case, that there would be many documents belonging to vctims as well. How does one zero in on the docs that belong to the bad guys?

[Rex]

40. We ain't talkin about a simple explosion

A passport survived a 747 slamming into a skyscraper at 300 mph? Excuse me for being cynical. I would feel better if the FBI would have produced OTHER examples of paper surviving the explosion.

[tk2kewl]

44. look at my post above (#34)

i believe documents can be found, but how the brits zero in on guys that aren't on any watch list based on docs found at the scene is puzzling. i am sure the victims had docs too.

[Rex]

45. The passport was found by an FBI agent who "happened"

onto the scene on 911. What are the odds?

EDIT - actually I'm curious if they found any of the pieces of the 747. I've never read anywhere about if any parts survived or not.

[tk2kewl]

49. i agree that the amount of "luck" involved in finding the right docs

is of the "needle-in-a-haystack" kind. but i don't doubt that docs survive.

zeroing in the "right" docs in such short order seems highly unlikely

[LibertyorDeath]

50. Would you have a link for this

"The passport was found by an FBI agent"

I know a passport was found but I didn't know it was found by an FBI agent.


"actually I'm curious if they found any of the pieces of the 747. I've never read anywhere about if any parts survived or not."

Not sure either will pm you if I find out.

[LibertyorDeath]

58. You bastard that sounds like logic. :)

:sarcasm:

[screembloodymurder]

63. Hell the concrete was pulverized into dust.

The steel melted. The entire building collapsed. But that little passport fell out of a pocket, sailed out of the plane, passed through the explosion and fire on it's way out the window, and landed where it could be found almost immediately. Why the odds of it not being buried by debris are.....
unbelievable.

[patcox2]

18. Nobody said docs were intact. They didn't have to leave them.

Boy, its amazing how the paranoid mind works.

When something is blown up, there are tatters and pieces of all kinds of stuff left behind. What is damaged and what is not is very very random. Its quite possible that a person wearing a bomb could detonate it and the contents of their wallet, in varying degrees of damaged-ness, would be scattered in the vicinity.

In short, nothing in this story justifies the conclusions you leap to.

[LibertyorDeath]

28. Do you read much?

You ever heard of this? "creating the enemies you need"

or are you being purposely obtuse?

It is my opinion that this is exactly what they are doing

"creating the enemies they need" it's just an opinion

Apparently I'm free to post my opinion.... Go figure....

[mr blur]

19. Put the tinfoil hat away....

or the FBI will be knocking on your door.

[LibertyorDeath]

20. I wear my tinfoil with pride

"It's the oldest trick in the book, dating back to Roman times; creating the enemies you need."

"or the FBI will be knocking on your door"

What is it against the law in the USA to speculate.

[tavalon]

68. Soon, my friend, soon......... n/t

[screembloodymurder]

65. I'm tired of these "tinfoil hat" comments.

When the “powers that be” offer explanations that are implausible, inconsistent, and irrational, skepticism is a healthy response and skepticism breeds speculation. If you ridicule speculation, you stifle critical thinking and dissent.

[XemaSab]

21. How conveeeeeeeenient....

n/t

[LibertyorDeath]

30. "How conveeeeeeeenient." Yes it is

Here is their fictional pre attack check list.

bombs - check

identifying documents so they can more easily identify us after were blown to bits - Check

[XemaSab]

38. Like the 9-11 terrorists:

things to put in duffel bag intended for checked baggage but destined to be left behind at airport:

Koran.

ID.

[ryan_cats]

22. I used to hate clowns

I used to hate clowns. Now I really hate them, especially this one, the vote-burgler.

[LibertyorDeath]

31. LOL.... you and me both

[helderheid]

24. holy crap and recommended

[LibertyorDeath]

32. Thanks

[Al-CIAda]

25. It is MANDATORY that these be 'suiciders'. Nudge, nudge,

Wink, wink.

[LibertyorDeath]

33. A poster in this thread thinks we better stop speculating about this

or the FBI will be paying us a visit.

Agent Mike is that you :)

Always enjoy your posts Al-CIAda.

[shelley806]

27. Thanks for the interesting post...keep ones mind open; this is an angle

I'd never have thought about.

[LibertyorDeath]

48. Always.... the truth is usually stranger than fiction

[earth mom]

29. KICK!

:kick:

[LibertyorDeath]

41. I see this just got kicked onto the greatest page so heads up all you

Anti- tinfoilers this is for you.

This is my opinion that's right I'm posting my opinion...

What's my opinion based on. It's based on the Historical Fact that Western governments have previously "created the enemies they need".

I do not know anymore than anyone else here what actually happened in London.

This does not preclude me from having an opinion & I respect the Mods and Admins for giving me this space to express it.

[leftofthedial]

46. they should start making airplane black boxes and humvee armor

out of passport material and UK identity paper

seems to be indestructible

[LibertyorDeath]

53. Amazing isn't it. I'm sure there's an ATF agent somewhere who would be

happy to explain it all to us and put our minds at ease. :)

[leftofthedial]

55. jost post on the September 11 forum and he'll show up

[insane_cratic_gal]

47. Well the irony! 9/11 hijackers

info was neatly floating at the bottom of the trade center.

Melted steel mind you.. and rubble but .. whooopies there is a ID of a hijacker. Wonder how that got there!

[ananda]

52. smells so much like..

.. so much - fish - !!

Yeah, I can dig it just as much as I dug the possibility of a terrorist's wallet being found on the ground after the plane struck the WTC.

NOT.

Sue

[alittlelark]

57. I'm diggin' it!

I would believe a used car salesman with a creampuff Pinto to sell me over either the US or British govt. accounts of these events.

[LibertyorDeath]

60. LOL! yeah the creampuff model "blew up real good"

:toast:

[SmokingJacket]

61. They want to be indentified; otherwise, what's the point?

A mystery terrorist is no terrorist at all.

[LibertyorDeath]

62. I can understand that but if you wanted to be identified with the act

Then they could make a video and send it to the media

Blowing yourself to bits with identity papers on you when you WANT to be
identified with the act does not make a whole lot of sense considering there is a very strong chance your ID will be blown to bits or destroyed in the blast. IMO

[tosca_veritas]

71. identification is a nasty critter

two more possible uses of these 'identifying papers':

FLASHBACK- 911
1. misdirect honest police work

BBC - FBI probes hijackers' identities 9/21/01
It believes that some of the hijackers used false identities, possibly even names of people who are still alive, which could significantly complicate the manhunt.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1553754.stm

The New Yorker - What Went Wrong
by Seymour Hersh - 10/1/01
Many of the investigators believe that some of the initial clues that were uncovered about the terrorists' identities and preparations, such as flight manuals, were meant to be found. A former high-level intelligence official told me, "Whatever trail was left was left deliberately--for the F.B.I. to chase."

The stunning news prompted FBI Director Robert Mueller to admit that some of the hijackers may have stolen identities of innocent citizens. In September 2002, Mueller told CNN twice that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the suicidal hijackers."
http://www.prisonplanet.com/fbi_denies_mix_up_of_911_terrorists.htm


Revealed: the men with stolen identities
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml

2. False Flag
now who would steal identifying documents from arabs/muslims and why?

I think it may also be valid to speculate, if the framed were not to be left alive this time around. Shouldn't be too hard for slick agents to trick a few innocent people to be at a certain place at designated time.

How convenient and easy. Since you know many bodies will not be indentifiable, you simply leave damning 'evidence' behind. (Quran in Madrid or Boston) Nobody questions- everyone follows--and you disappear...

i'm taking off my tinfoil hat to read some more Agatha Christie!



:sarcasm: :rofl:

[ChiDem]

64. Just for the record

I believe that Atta's passport was never found at the wtc, can we take a closer look at this ?

[Medium Baby Jesus]

67. Your title is apropriate

"this shit" as in you insinuations are bullshit.