This is the perfect example of what DU has been lately.

[boxster]

About 90 minutes ago, janekat posted an analysis and a link to a web site that lists candidates' views on the issues.

Here's the link to her post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=423028

Bottom line: Clark and Dean were rated almost exactly the same.

In more than 90 minutes, it received 3 responses, 2 of them from me.

Meanwhile, bashing threads are seeing tons of traffic and are being bombarded with responses.

Her posting, which had the incredible nerve to actually point someone to an analysis on issues, just sits there.

Does anyone else think that's just nuts?

Edit: for Heaven's sake, even the "Which candidate's supporters are the biggest, most relentless bullies?" poll has 70 VOTES and counting.

Sigh....

[diplomats]

1. Yes

[pippin]

2. I have this feeling

that a lot of people aren't willing to actually read what is posted, especially if the postings are longer than a paragraph, and if there are attempts in the postings that required a hard look into a topic. Lots of really good posts like the one you cite that are worthy of far more attention and serious discussion simply slip off beyond page three of any forum after which no one ever know anything more about them.

As in any conversational group I suspect there are a lot more people who want to talk, but who aren't interested in listening to anyone else's contributions.

Engaging in flaming, bashing and name calling after all is easier than engaging in thoughtful, well-reasoned debate. Saddened to see this happening. :-(

[kang]

3. yes

but people are drawn to the hot debates...they see that flame and just can't help themselves (I know I get suckered into it too). Besides, when your candidate is being bashed you at least want to put up a rebuttal in case somebody who's undecided reads it. I once made the mistake of getting "personal" in my debate, but in general now I try to stay on the civil side or joke a bit to cut the tension.

People were asking about Clark's Pristina non-incident and why he wasn't popular in the Pentagon so I posted a link to an article written on it and it was buried minutes later. Oh well. Just got to keep plugging away. By the way, found out from another Clark person that his father was actually a Chicago prosecutor who turned Dem alderman. He was a member of the DNC. Interesting.

[Ress1]

4. Bush advisors were right.

Americans like conflict.

[TexasEditor]

5. Lately DU...

has been a sort of chat room with people posting what's negative or meaningless, with very little sharing of news and so on. Lots of worst case scenarios, hypothetical 'impending doom' questions and way too much profanity.

[ronzo]

8. well, that's the GD forum for you...

It gets over the top on occasion. I'm sure some feel better after that flurry of rants. The situation will probably correct itself.

The other forums are still chock full o' news and opinion, btw.


And as for that bully poll, I decided to pass- don't get me started on those Carol Mosley-Braun supporters...

Point taken, boxster.

[boxster]

14. "Carol Mosley-Braun supporters..."

Too funny!

I really liked her in the latest debate. I must admit I didn't know a lot about her beforehand, but have spent a lot of time reviewing her positions on issues and so on. She seems exceedingly well-spoken and very intelligent.

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. i've never done this before and i'm not even sure it's allowed but

when someone with 200 posts writes about how DU has been lately i get curious. a LOT of people have re-incarnated themselves rather than be held to former positions. who did you used to be? i mean for someone with a relitively low post count to be making broad brushed proclaimations about DU, i just get curious.

[ronzo]

18. Wow! you killed the shit out of this thread.

to whom are you speaking?

[boxster]

20. I didn't "used to be" anyone else.

It's not terribly difficult to make the connections I made, even after "only" 200 posts. You seem to be just about the only person on the entire board that hasn't noticed the flood of bashing threads over the past few days.

And, if you'd bothered to actually READ my post (hell, even just the subject line), you'd notice I said, "lately."

Hmm, boy that sure is hard to figure out. Oh, well, bash the newbie.

[Tinoire]

26. An forgivable mistake

since you just recently joined. This is nothing and nothing new. You should have seen the boards when most of us transitioned from DLC tolerators to DLC haters. That was bloody. Or the Lieberman wars or even the Hillary wars.

This is a political discussion board, not a quilting party- it's always been bloody and intense. As a matter of fact the rules specifically state that

"you need a thick skin to participate here"

The entire purpose of this board was to bring us to exactly where we are now - intense discussion during the Primaries.

If it's too nerve-wracking- maybe this is the wrong time to participate or you might consider the Lounge. Better yet, use the ignore button and you'll never see the posts or threads of the people annoying you. With the ignore button, you can tailor GD to be more as you remember. I did that one week, a little before you joined, and it was great because I was able to avoid 5 million low-level threads which were also affecting the tone of this board. Ignore is your friend here.

Several things that have been happening recently are nerve-wracking for all of us.

On edit: Dean hasn't seemed very enamoured of Clark lately, why would you expect his supporters to be after the 5 millionth thread about what a great team they would make? It's seen as another attempt to shove Clark down their throats. I'm surprised you're surprised about the reaction.

[boxster]

27. Sure, but it's ridiculous to assume that just because I don't have

15,000 posts that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about or that I'm just so terribly intimidated or upset by the bashing that I can't deal with it. If that's your interpretation, then it is incorrect.

I've been a political junkie ever since arguing the merits of voting for Carter over Ford to my incredibly-conservative elementary school classmates in 1976. Just because I didn't decide to join the DU fray before now doesn't mean I just became politically active 25 days ago.

Perhaps you should read my original posting again, because you're reading a lot of stuff into it that simply isn't there.

I have no problem with people "annoying" me. My point was that it was unfortunate that DU'ers appear to be ignoring excellent postings that were issues-related and were instead focusing on the mindless bashing threads. I doubt that the majority of people would disagree.

Re: your edit re: Dean/Clark. Please explain to me where exactly in my post I said anything about Dean or Clark meeting, being a team, etc. It's not there. In fact, in another response below in this same thread, I said that I thought that Dean likely feared Clark's early success and was threatened by it. Certainly doesn't sound like I think they're going to kiss and make up any time soon.

You seem to have defended a charge that I didn't make. I'm not defending Clark supporters and I'm not defending Dean supporters, nor am I defending anyone else. Regardless, you defended Dean supporters anyway, so maybe your own views are causing you to see things in my posting that just aren't there.

For the record, I haven't even committed to a candidate yet. I do think it's interesting, however, that the "who did you used to be?" posting and your posting both came from people who are pretty obviously Dean supporters. I like Dean a lot and am considering him very seriously, and I'm trying very hard not to hold his supporters' postings and actions against him.


Edit: fixed minor typo

[DemCam]

6. Maybe all it means is that Clark and Dean are both hot!

And maybe that indicates that those who inspire strong emotions will be good candidates for us...will have the attention of the media to focus the public's attention spans for a few seconds on Bush and his
gang of liers.

[Padraig18]

9. I think you may be right

I think both candidates have generated enormous excitement, and have drawn numerous people INTO the Democratic party who might otherwise might not have given a damn on election day. I do NOT see Clark's entry into the race as a bad things AT ALL. :)

[MODemocrat]

13. I'm excited when I see a positive article about any Dem candidate

but it really can put a damper on things, when one is blasted. We have such a good line up of candidates, and with all of them out there beating the "bushes", it has begun to turn things around for the democratic party. It would make me happier if the democrats would just realize who their real opposition is and stick to it. BUSH needs to be replaced, period.

:D :wow:

[boxster]

15. I think they are currently perceived as "co-frontrunners"

regardless of what the polls say.

My thoughts:

Dean is the "upstart" who began this campaign at the grass-roots level, took off, developed a "real" organization, and has exceeded the expectations of many. Until Clark, he was the perceived front-runner in the media and in a lot of minds.

Clark jumped in the race fairly late, obviously. Dean (at least his supporters) fear Clark's early success and might feel threatened by it. They also probably feel (right or wrong) that the media attention heaped on Clark and his immediate jump in the polls is unfair because of the effort they had to make to get Dean this far.

Disclaimer: these statements were not meant in any way to be negative toward the candidates. They are just intended to be my generalizations of how we got here. Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental.

[WINEWOMAN7]

7. DU members need to save their energy to fight the Bush regime

I don't understand all this bashing for the sake of bashing when our country and liberty are at stake. If you don't like another candidate, that's fine but why spend the energy sending out negative vibes, we're all in this together and our objective has to be to get rid of this evil empire and to do that, we need to stick together, the wacko right wing sure does.

[Armstead]

10. An antidote

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=423744

[angka]

11. pretty damn annoying isn't it?

people hate the invective, but can't resist it. meanwhile, the only posts that stay on page one are the vitriol-packed ones. makes us look really good.

here's mine, also noteworthy mainly for its lack of response. read it all before you start knee-jerking...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=419762

[papau]

12. Trust that your reader count is high - it is just that "I agree" seems

like a lame post to some.

And on isues we are not far appart, with any of the 10.

I'd rather post the latest Bush outrage - or the lack of media attention to that outrage - and positive Dem stuff.

[Rose Siding]

16. II read it but didn't respond because

to compare a record with mere words seems fanciful.

[NashVegas]

19. The "Ignore" Function

Is not something I normally use, but today I applied it liberally, adding at least 5 people. Am feeling pretty good about it.

[Castilleja]

22. I have been using ignore lately

When you start seeing people who just bug you, and post the same thing in the same subjects, I think ignore is a great tool. I hate to say it, but I don't think my DU experience has diminished for it.

[WilliamPitt]

21. Kick

[FlaGranny]

23. THANK YOU.

I probably would have missed that post, if not for this one. I bookmarked that site for future reference.

[LittleApple81]

24. I have not been going directly to GD. I stay in the main page

where the posts to all the forums are posted by date. It is so much more peaceful... and it allows me to read whatever I please. I have learned to identify the flamer reports. It is more work, but keeps my blood pressure down.

[VermontDem2004]

25. This is strange

I see one of these type of posts everyday that get lots of thanks you's, yes! etc. But it doesn't change anything, I actually came back to the GD forum yesturday and the flame wars are alot worse then I remember, but I guess that is the nature of primary season.