Norman Solomon: "Cindy Sheehan's Message Repudiates George Bush - And ..."

[understandinglife]

Cindy Sheehan's Message Repudiates George Bush - And Howard Dean

By Norman Solomon

August 15, 2005

In 1972, after many years of US involvement in Vietnam, the Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg wrote: "In that time, I have seen it first as a problem; then as a stalemate; then as a crime."

That aptly describes three key American perspectives now brought to bear on US involvement in Iraq.

The moral clarity and political impacts of Cindy Sheehan's vigil in Crawford are greatly enhanced by a position that she is taking: US troops should not be in Iraq.

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While Bush sees the war as a problem and Dean bemoans it as a stalemate, Sheehan refuses to evade the truth that it is a crime. And the analysis that came from Daniel Ellsberg in 1972, while the Vietnam War continued, offers vital clarity today: "Each of these perspectives called for a different mode of personal commitment: a problem, to help solve it; a stalemate, to help extricate ourselves with grace; a crime, to expose and resist it, to try to stop it immediately, to seek moral and political change."

Link:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081505J.shtml

Finally.

Bush and the neoconsters have committed numerous crimes.

Some of the crimes are on-going, including every single moment America continues to occupy Iraq.

Out, NOW.

Logistics happen to be an area of expertise that America is second to none. Thus, when I state "NOW" I mean, begin extracting and do it in a logistically sound manner.

But, we all know what "out" means. It means we aren't occupying Talill and other strategic air bases and we are not controlling the economy.

"Out" means "OUT."


Peace.

[WilliamPitt]

1. He's right

Howard Dean is a damned good man, and I hope he comes around on this issue soon.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Agreed

[Guaranteed]

4. Dean's position is based on what is best for the Iraqis.

If it gets to the point where it looks like we can't do any good for them (and we may be there, now), then I'm sure he'd think it was time to leave.

[WilliamPitt]

7. You think what is happening there is what's best for the Iraqis?

Really?

[Guaranteed]

8. No, I said that we may have gotten to the point where

we can't do them any good by being there.

But, theoretically, yes, there are a number of things that we can, or at least could HAVE, done to avoid a civil war and help their economy and their people more generally.

As far as Dean's message, I don't know if you saw him on Face the Nation, but he was asking these types of questions. Is there anything that CAN be done for the Iraqis, by us, at this point? What are we trying to DO there?

These questions, if left unanswered, are generally the type that would lead a country to pull out of a situation like this.

[Guaranteed]

3. This needs to be argued on a practical level,

dealing with the circumstances in Iraq TODAY.

Yes, it was a crime, but that doesn't change the facts of our situation.

We need to figure out what exactly in the hell is even possible for the Iraqis at this point, and what it would cost, and work from there.

The sloganeering isn't going to cut it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. The rw pundits are daring the dems to take a stand on this

The implication being that,coming out completely against the war would distroy the democratic party, so they all better just shut up and continue to get sodomized by the chimp.

And I think they should just go ahead and call bush a criminal and a fraud. How much worse could it get for them?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

12. Dems are completely out of power. Why not tell it like it is?

How much worse can it get?

[Zomby Woof]

6. Solomon nailed it

It is about time someone pointed out Dean's position is no more morally defensible than Bush's. :thumbsup:

[eridani]

9. But wasn't Dean's latest speech calling for an exit strategy?

Don't have it to hand, but if you are going to rag on someone, do it using their current opinion, not the one from six months ago.

[Cha]

10. Yes, I believe it was..

I read something quickly on DU tonight and now I can't find it..darn.

[Cha]

11. I just found this..

on dnc.org..

"Here is what Chairman Dean actually said:

“First thing we need to do is have a plan for leaving. And, the second thing we need to do is to make sure that to the best of our ability we can influence the writing of the constitution. It looks like today, and this could change - as of today, it looks like women will be worse off in Iraq than they were when Saddam Hussein was president of Iraq. That’s a pretty sad commentary on this administration’s ability to do anything right. And, if it turns out that this constitution really does take away the rights that women have enjoyed in Iraq before, then I can't imagine why we're there. The problem is now that there's ample evidence to say that they didn't understand what they were getting into and they still don't know what we're doing there. They changed their goals. The troops are still not properly equipped. The constitution looks like it may take away freedom from the Iraq people, at least half of them, instead of added to them. What we need is a plan from the president of the United States.” "


More at..
http://www.dnc.org/a/2005/08/gop_ignores_rea.php

[eridani]

14. An improvement, but we are the last country in the world--

--that should be trying to influence the Iraqi constitution. Here's hoping that more liberal Muslims from around the world speak up. That's the only tactic that has a more than a snowball's chance in hell, IMO.

[understandinglife]

13. Well, here is what Dr Dean had to say on August 14, 2005 ...

Schieffer: Should we leave now?

Dr. Dean: I think that's going to be very problematic. I mean, I think we've gotten in there, we've made a huge mess in there, we've created a terrorist danger for the United States where one did not exist before. But to pull out before they even have a chance to write their constitution I think is wrong. But I do think that time is coming very quickly. And if it turns out that this constitution really does take away the rights that women have enjoyed in Iraq before, then I can't imagine why we're there.

Schieffer: Well, I'll go back and ask you about that in a minute, but I know the president said, and I think it was just this week, giving a timetable for leaving Iraq would be the worst thing we could do because it would just tell the people who oppose us there, `Look, all we have to do is hang in till they leave, and then we're OK.'

Dr. Dean: We need to leave. We're not going to be there forever, I hope. We're not going to be there forever. So the question is: What is a reasonable way to get out? And that's--we have no answers from the president on that at all. He keeps saying--well, his administration appears to be divided. Some of the generals have said, `Well, we can withdraw some of the troops, perhaps as many as 30,000, after the elections.' We have others saying, `Well, we're not going to leave.' These people do not know what they're doing. They didn't know what they were doing when we got in, they had no plan then. They have no plan now. They do not know what they're doing.

Link:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_81405.pdf

I'll leave it to those who know how to read such statements to interpret.


Peace.