Can we now agree that "But he's a groper!" is poor campaign strategy?

[DemLikr]

Screaming "he's a pig!" didn't work for the Republicans against Clinton during impeachment either. BC survived and thrived.

The hysterical emphasis on groping and mysogeny as the PRIMARY reasons why Arnold should not be elected made it appear that the political reasons for retaining Gray Davis were nonexistent, which they weren't.

Any talk of Davis' political/governmental talents were completely buried in the accusations of piggishness against Arnold. And if it seems that the best you can say about your candidate is that his opponent is a oversexed pig, then you are bound to lose.

Voters smell fear and weakness in a campaign; the scent of a candidate flailing about, screaming "you're doo doo" at his challenger because he's got nothing good to say about himself.

The saddest part is that there was plenty good to say about Gray Davis and the job he has done in the face of Republican sabotage.

The Democratic emphasis on unprovable sex charges as campaign strategy backfired. It relied on Republican-style slash and burn political methods and it's just as futile for us as it was for them. Let's not rely on it again as a primary MO.

Discuss.

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. Nothing would have helped

There wasn't a campaign strategy invented that could have helped Gray Davis.

Anyone who polls in the low 20's is a lost cause. I'm dumbfounded how he ever became governor in the first place.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. NO we can't say that. Women's votes DID turn on that message

We can say that MEN THINK GROPING is good..sice their vote didn't turn.

[salin]

8. Not that all the free media coverage for Arnie

movies on cable.... star interviews... etc. all for free to the campaign. That didn't have an effect at all.... :shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. IF we had raised a hundred million dollars, we might have been able

to compete with him. This was a manufactured result.

[salin]

16. get with the program

It is that Davis didnt talk about issues.... Of course neither did Arnold. All he offered was 'sweeping sacramento clean'.

[DealsGapRider]

27. huh?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/07/recall.exit/index.html

[Blitz]

28. Once again,

the majority of women voted FOR the recall (51% according to exit polls), a large plurality of women voted FOR Arnold (43% - compared to 36% for Bustamante) and a large majority (57%) of women voted for either Arnold or McClintock. If ONLY women's votes were counted, we'd STILL have Governor Schwarzenegger.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2003/recall/pages/epolls/governor.html

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2003/recall/pages/epolls/special.election.html

[Cheswick2.0]

33. once again

women would have voted for arnold in larger numbers except for the information about his groping. Polls say so.

[Classical_Liberal]

36. What polls?

So far as I know there was a gender gap before these allegations, which is understandable give the type of movies Arnold makes. More likely women who were already against Arnold assumed for partisan reasons the allegations were true, and all the other women looked at the timing and decided to ignore them as a basis for their decision. Republican women assumed for partisan reasons they were not true.

[blondeatlast]

3. The LA Times broke the story, not the DNC, And he deserved to

be exposed. The only regret I have is that the Enron/Ken Lay connection wasn't emphasized enough.

He's a pig, and things are only going to get worse in California.

[Girlfriday]

4. I agree

I am truly sorry that the LA Times printed those stories so late. I know that it was a short campaign cycle, and the paper had to check out the stories, but it just looked like the Democrats were playing dirty. Gray Davis has a reputation for doing that. I think we are definitely seeing a backlash. Democrats can't use these tactics and win in '04!

[ibegurpard]

5. All of that stuff came out too late.

It would've made a difference if the reality of Arnold had had time to set in with people.

[salin]

6. on second thought

not going to go there - never mind.

[birdman]

7. Davis was toast from day one

Davis and Bustamante were poor candidates. This was a name
recognition election and we might have won with a high
profile candidate of our own (DiFi, Rob Reiner etc.)

The groper allegations were easily dismissed as a last
minute cheap shot.

It wasn't ideology. It wasn't voting machines. It wasn't
the "base" staying home.

We simply needed better candidates.

[w4rma]

9. Nope. IMHO, we should keep going after Arnold for those things

The Democratic Party is NOT the Party that is soft on criminal molestors. The California Democratic Party should keep after Arnold like the Republicans went after Clinton. And regular folks should also.

Tactically, if Democrats don't want those attacks dismissed as "last minute cheap shots", then we need to keep after him.

Personally, I'm appaled and the man's actions and I don't think he should hold office.

[blondeatlast]

15. Well said! Amen! Bravo!

We need to keep pushing the issue, just like the Reperps did with Clinton (and let's not forget that Arnie assaulted these women). They are the party of "family values," right? To paraphrase a great bumper sticker:

"Groping is NOT a family value."

[Classical_Liberal]

37. Nobody said they shouldn't continue to persue them

if true. but making the last minute campaign issues wasn't smart. If they aren't persued it won't be because of my pressure.

[NicoleM]

10. Yes but

only because the pro-Arnold media used the term "groping" instead of what it really was, assault.

[charlie]

12. How did Saxby Chambliss win?

How did Dubya destroy John McCain's surge? I seem to have forgotten. Whatever they did, it was effective.

[soleft]

13. Are you saying the story should have been BURIED???

The LA Times tried to do the right thing.

Here was my impression of Schwarzennegger before he declared he was runnning for Governor. Terminator, one of my favorite movies. In some of his movies he showed good comic timing. He seemed like an affable guy and I was vaguely aware he had political aspirations, and that he was a republican.

When he said he was running, I thought, well, okay. Guess he has a good a shot as anyone else running. Seems very ernest, lots of enthusiasm to improve things.

Then at DU I found the Premiere article that was written in 2001. Premiere is not the Washington Post, but it ain't the National Enquirer either.

Of all the incidents in that story, the one which horrified me the most was when he went up to a female member of film crew, with his entourage surrounding him, placed his hands under her shirt and took her breasts out of her bra, exposing them to everyone who was standing there. The woman was humiliated and devastated.

THAT WAS A SEXUAL ASSAULT. It was not piggish behavior. It was not playful. It was CRIMINAL.

And I was stunned that this was all new news to me. I really believed that if these stories were true, when people read them, man, woman, republican, democrat, there was no way Scharzenegger had a chance.

I waited for a major news agency to report on these rumors. To investigate and either dispel or confirm them. And I waited. And I waited.

Finally the LA Times reported on the story. People question the timing. They accuse Davis of being behind it. Trash politics. Challenged on their integrity the Times ran two more stories. In each case the allegations by the woman in each incident were backed up by someone who was told of the incidents at the time that they happened.

I don't believe that reporting these allegations was the Democratic strategy for victory. Okay, maybe the strategy they did have was poorly lacking. But alerting the public to these accusations was not a desparate, weak attempt at keeping Scharzeneggar from winning. It was an essential, yes, courageous attempt to report the truth.

[spooky3]

17. well said!

[bloom]

31. "It was CRIMINAL" - I think there is a class action suit...

I think there is a class action suit against the studios AND Arnold waiting to happen.

Such an atmosphere should not have been allowed to continue on and on. It's as if as an actor such actions were tolerable - but as a governor they are not. They should not be tolerated for either job.

[Classical_Liberal]

38. The LA times didn't make you guys spin it on Du for three days

meanwhile the Palast Enron story went nowhere.

[spooky3]

14. I'm not convinced the LA Times story was a "campaign strategy."

If evidence of a candidate's poor treatment of women, minorities or any other group of people because of their membership in the group exists, it is the responsibility of the media to investigate it and bring what they learn to light. The evidence suggests to me that the LA Times fulfilled that responsibility and did it as best they could given the short campaign and the obvious and well-documented challenges in finding victims and getting them to speak on the record.

[BQueen]

25. A question of who's campaign strategy we're talking about

It just struck me that the Premiere article was out in 2001, I saw the Linda Hamilton interview on So Graham Norton quite some time ago (which certainly gave credence to all the T2 claims, even as Hamilton was giving him the benefit of the doubt), and his "exploits" are legend in the industry. And I can't imagine at least some of these women didn't come forward as soon as Ahnold announced (if not when he started publicly hinting).

What, was the LATimes waiting to get 15 women confirming before running with the story? That seems to be excessive confirmation to me.

So, why the delay? Struck me that Geraldo said on Leno, he "knows the owners of the LATimes, and they are conservative." Hmmm. Who does it make look bad when that dratted "liberal media" sits on a scandalous story (which would have come out sooner or later) until the "eve of election." Why, the opposition, of course. When, in this case, the opposite is true. The Dems got blamed for playing dirty AND didn't get the benefit of what should have been a real issue. Plus, the furor over it completely eclipsed the Enron connection. Pretty neat trick - how many birds is that with one stone?

If the Dems had had time to flesh out (no pun intended) the allegations and get the word out that this was NOT about "sexual pranks" but about public humiliation and degradation of women (Soleft, I completely agree with you on relevance.) This was to "flirting" (or whatever the hell he called it) as rape is to sex. No fucking relation!

I've seen a lot about how hypocritical Dems/liberals are to differentiate between Ahnold and Clinton. I didn't agree with how Clinton conducted himself with his female staff, and I think he had/has a problem. But since when is it *hypocritical* to distinguish among degrees of offense/guilt/responsibilty/outright evil?!

Ahnold, however, sexually assaults women in public and takes pleasure in their humiliation. This is a completely different animal from Clinton's *wolf* behavior. Ahnold is too "bestial" to compare to non-humans; the only term I can think of is "neanderthal." This is just as capable of distinction as the lying. We need a version of "When Clinton Lied, No one Died."

[Classical_Liberal]

40. Part of this could have been McClintock people

who are the type of social conservatives that visciously attacked Clinton.

[Classical_Liberal]

39. The original charges were documented 2 yrs ago

the la times had a lot more time then they claim.

[LightTheMatch]

18. It's a bad strategy only taken by itself.

The women attack pillar should have been supplemented by some more attacks based on different issues: policy/energy policy - Ken Lay connection, and others. There should have been attacks on all fronts, not just one.

[Jivenwail]

19. What is lost in California now is democracy

Pure and simple. This meathead was in meetings with Karl Rove at the WH months ago. This entire recall was a GOP-engineered event to take power away from a democratically and legally elected candidate, like Davis or not. It matters not, he was legally elected. These creeps know the latent sexual behavior of this moron would come out, and they knew it would fall on deaf ears, that people were tired after 8 years of Clinton-bashing over sex and picadillos that it simply didn't matter, no matter how grotesque the behavior of this baffoon body builder. And it worked well to keep the real issue of the Ken Lay meeting off the front page, and for the most part, out of the mainstream. What failed to make the voters aware was a complacent media to emphasize what had happened during the power crisis. To bring to the forefront the illegal wrangling of Enron and the others, including Cheney et al, during that crisis. And the FACT that Arnie met with Ken Lay. Davis sat back for too long, thinking this whole thing was a joke. And before he got anywhere near serious on the issues, it was too damned late. People were believing the entire thing was his fault and his alone. And the message about groping, etc. was lost in the fray.

What I hold hope for in all of this is that Arnie is going to have to work with a Democratic state legislature and a Democratic Lt. Gov. (who, BTW, Arnie insulted and belittled during the campaign) who will hold his cajones to the fire. That Arnie will be outed for lying to the voters. We here in Virginia can tell you first-hand what is like to have a Governor elected on the promise to "kill the car tax". Just look what it got Virginia and where Jim Gilmore is today. Arnie simply can't "do away with the car tax" and not have a plan to replace that $4 billion in revenue. He will have to raise taxes and when he does, his days will be numbered. The people of California bought into an idea, movie slogans and were swayed away from the "real issues" confronting them. I doubt most of them even know how much of their hard earned money will now have to pay for this recall.

It's a damned shame what happend, really. And no one hates it more than me. But what is done is done. It's time to move forward and to help our friends in California to now cope with what they have voted for and to help make certain they correct that mistake at the polls next year and beyond.

Good luck, California. You are going to need it.

[Touchdown]

20. It would have been if the Dems brought it up.

So try another red herring.

If we had the top box office draw in the world, millions of campaign money, and a media that just won't shut up about him, we would've won this big as well.

This is about Schwartzy...it's not an endorsement of Republican values.

[Kamika]

21. Its very bad overused

We did it too much, we should have pointed out some stuff, like maybe his interview but not more, and instead attacked his politics

[KharmaTrain]

22. An Arnold Opportunity:

I posted this last night. I'm willing to put up $1,000 (part of my undeserved tax bribe) to a legal defense fund for any woman who presses a civil suit against the new Governor based on his sexual assault...ala Paula Jones.

[LuminousX]

23. Failed Strategy

Let's face it, unless there is legal action, most voters willingly dismiss the 'politics of personal destruction.' Voters don't care about a person's moral fiber. This strategy has failed over and over.

It failed against Bush. (AWOL, DUI, illegal abortions, drug use...)
It failed against Clinton. (Drug use, affairs)
It failed against Clarence Thomas. (Sexual harassment, sexual misconduct, being a creepass)
It failed against Arnold. (Groping, misogynist, Hitler loving)

Imagine all that time spent on that subject being devoted to his lack of experience, the fact he doesn't have a comprehensive budget outlined, the fact he is being coached by Pete Wilson, and the fact he was taking meetings with Enron.

I think another undercurrent should have been put in place that promorted Arnold as a permissive social liberal, so if he won against the aforementioned strategy he'd be unable to deviate from his social liberal views without a voter backlash.

Right now it is up to the California legislature to hold the line against Republican encroachment. And it is time for me to start praying that there is a liberal majority somewhere in this country.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. How about trying this on for size? Where do you see the involvement....

...of the Democratic Party in the LA Times story? Is it not possible that the LA Times chose on their own to write a piece of investigative journalism about one of the candidates for governor of California?

The LA Times took seven weeks to carefully research, write and edit the articles it published about Herr Gropenator. The charges presented are very serious and need to be taken to the next level by California's law enforcement system. From a political perspective it's too bad that the articles didn't come out sooner...from a legal perspective it doesn't matter when they chose to print the stories.

[robbedvoter]

26. No, wecan't. Add Enron and Hitler to the mix- broadcast it

widely - not just one paper vs 100% pro-Arnold coverage and maybe you get the morons who didn't vote to pay attention. As it was, it still got Davis more votes than Adolf:

> 3,355,643 - Gray
> 3,313,517 - Arnold

[Snellius]

29. Now it can be said. Davis was a loser from the start.

I kept thinking of that Mr. Atlas ad in old superhero comic books, where the muscle man kicks sand in the face of the pasty weakling cowering on the beach. Except Davis never sent in the coupon to take the body building course. How someone as socially awkward as Davis got to be Governor is still a mystery. He made Nixon look gregarious. If this is the best the California Democrats could come up with ...

The groper crap was fed more by the media than the Dems. With Arnold such an unknown quantity, and with such a limited election period, it was a perfectly valid issue. The LA Times couldn't win.

[bring_em_home_bush]

30. ~

Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.
George Bernard Shaw

[kentuck]

32. As a strategy maybe but not as the truth...

If it happened, should it not be reported? What would you say if nobody brought it up and we were facing the same results today?

[opihimoimoi]

34. The fact is he did admit to these charges and apologized... as if it would

be alright after that.

He was right, it worked.

and there must be more than a few women out there who actually wouldn't mind if Arnie groped THEM. Sick notion but true. And they voted for the guy, yikes.

All the Kings Men and All the Kings Horses will be put into action to make sure Arnie succeeds. Trouble is, the Men and Horses belong to the same guys as Bush.

Only time will tell.

Come, time for some ice cream and Haupia Pie

[poskonig]

35. No, it was only timed poorly.

It made Davis look desperate. They should have released the slime right after Arianna made the comment about women during the debate.

However, I believe strategists saw how the DUI stuff took a bunch of votes away from Bush at the last minute, and were looking to a similar effect. The difference? Davis was not only hated, but had a history of running nasty campaigns, which again, made him look desperate when the groping stuff was pushed.