Dead and presumed missing?

[markus]

Tuesday, October 04, 2005

The lost and the dead

They have stopped searching for the dead. The toll in Louisiana: 972.

Even as FEMA announces an end to the search for bodies in New Orleans, over 5,000 people remain missing after Hurricane Katrina. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children lists 2,500 children who are missing or can't be matched to their parents. A list from the same site of missing adults runs to 183 pages with 37 names per page. That's 6,750 people

It is disturbing that in 2005 we don't have the ability to match up the missing via shelter registrations, aid applications, or other means.

Why are there between 5,000 and 9,000 people who can't be found?

Why are the employees of Kenyon International Emergency Services charged with handling the dead, sworn to secrecy?

Why was this company, a scandal-tainted Texas firm tied to the Bush family and implicated in illegally discarding and desecrating corpses , hired? (And why is the Florida Sun-Sentinel link to a story about this taken down?)

Why did Jefferson Parish Sheriff Harry Lee initially report on Sept. 10 that only 10% of the bodies recovered in Jefferson Parish were attributable to Katrina, according to WWL-TV's Katrina Blog?

Why weren't locked homes broken into and searched?

Has every building been searched, by humans, animals or remotely to determine if there are dead?

How many of the dead escaped through the intentional levee breeches in St. Bernard and the lower Ninth Ward and will never be found?

Why were the affluent victims of 9-11 counted among the dead when they were only missing?

Why are the less affluent and largely black victims of 9-28 disregarded when there bodies can't be found?

Will we ever know the true number of the dead?

If not, why not?

Supporting links and more here: [link:wetbankguide.blogspot.com|wetbankguide.blogspot.com}

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. the sacred number of 9.11 cannot be breached

given taht there are over 10K missing, still missing, that is your true death toll

[fooj]

2. We should demand the truth.

This is BS!

Peace.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. oh it is BS

and trust me, having worked in EMS in a country where these tricks were used, I can smell the corruption

[fooj]

16. Grrrrrrrrr...

:grr:

[Window]

38. Yes, and NOW!!!!

They just cannot be allowed to get away with this!

Peace

[Ezlivin]

3. Missing does not equal dead

Easy, isn't it?

Just as we no longer have POWs but instead "enemy combatants", we no longer have dead people, just merely "missing." Perhaps they are out shopping for Ferragamo shoes?

War is peace, too.

[linazelle]

31. Maybe they're buying Louis Vuitton handbags with FEMA cards.

:sarcasm:

[frankly_fedup2]

4. I hope this does not come across as stupid or something; however,

when they started pumping the water out into the ocean through those huge pipes, I wondered if any bodies could have been pumped out. Also, if it was possible, was there way for them to know . . . some kind of sensors, someone watching it, etc?

It's bothered me ever since they started pumping that nasty water out and you know there had to be some debris come out of it to.

Really, what size were those pipes? Would it have been possible for a body to go through and no one see it?

Anyone?

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Yes the body of a small child or animal

[frankly_fedup2]

20. How sad. It is hard to believe that only 900+ people were all that

were killed when over a million people have been displaced. That's not even 1/1000th of a percent of the total population.

Sometimes I think they just pick a number out of the air and throw it to us through the media.

[raccoon]

54. Shout this out from the rooftops,

"Sometimes I think they just pick a number out of the air and throw it to us through the media. "

YES!!

Note the big differences between the corporate hoe media's estimates of how many attend protests versus the independent media's estimates, or your own experience if you were there.

[markus]

17. Yes, and they breached levees

in several spots to let the water out, per long standing Corps of Engineers plans. At that point, anybody floating in the water would just have been flushed out to the lakes north of the city.

[frankly_fedup2]

21. Good Lord. I cannot imagine what anyone could be going through

with a loved one missing. It would drive me insane because I would be so obsessed with finding them that I wouldn't even be able to sleep.

[never_get_over_it]

25. I thought the same thing

the pipes that led into the river were huge and I believe could easily passed an adult body - I'm just not sure the size of the pipes on the other end.....but I have wondered the same thing. I'm sure not all of the missing are dead but I'm also sure the death count is not 972 it is completed BS

[Gidney N Cloyd]

29. I think there were grates preventing anything big going through.

I seem to recall a situation with a dog struggling in the water a while back but people were relieved that he couldn't be sucked into the pumps.

[markus]

46. There are grates on the city's pumps

I don't know about the ones brought in by the US Army Corps of Engineers.

And when you breach the levees, everything goes out in a rush.

[linazelle]

32. The pipes were HUGE. I wondered the same thing. n/t

[BuelahWitch]

5. A friend and former coworker of mine is listed as missing

I talked to her on IM the Sunday before the storm hit. She told me at the time she wasn't going to leave because she didn't want to leave her 16 year old doggie. I tried to convince her to take Hoolie and get out (she had a car when she lived in Salt Lake, but I don't know what her financial situation was once she moved to NO), but I don't know if she did. She's still on the list of missing and I'm very worried about her.
:cry:

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. my condolencsces by the way

[BuelahWitch]

43. Thanks

I've still got hope she's ok.

[slampoet]

27. My girl's family has a total of 3 "Confirmed" dead and 6 missing

I put confirmed in quotes because one was a 92 year old who a neighbor saw die on his roof, one was a three-year-old who got swept into the current, and a Husband 40-ish who stayed behind with the property and that was his last sighting.

None of these people has turned up as a body, and thus isn't listed among the dead, yet EVERYONE in the family knows these folks are dead.

Then there are the six who no one knows what their fate was, but we all can be pretty sure they would have called by now. It has been a month.

I will never forgive this and I will be telling my future children and their children as well.

This is equivolent to the Irish Famine, and will be remembered as such by the Creole people.

[markus]

47. We Will Never Let Them Be Forgotten

Ever.

Vicksburg did not celebrate the Fouth of July until after WWII.

We will remember this much longer.

Not just the Creoles. I am as white as slice of fresh Bunny Bread. All my people made it out. But I will never forget what was done, and not done.

The people of St. Bernard will not forget any more than the people of the Ninth Ward. Hell, they were neighbors once, until the hysteria of desegregation cause their exodus out to the parish. They are more brothers and sisters now than anyone could even imagine.


Next year in New Orleans.

[tnlefty]

48. I am so sorry.

What a nightmare scenario.

[Zynx]

6. We only found around 1,300 bodies at the WTC IIRC.

Does that mean that 2,700 people didn't die there? No, that meant that a large number got vaporized or otherwise were made unrecognizable as humans. I think here many bodies may have washed away, been eaten by aligators, or whatever.

[babylonsister]

7. St. Gabriel, LA: 02 October: 8,000 bodies taken to morgue:

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051002/REPOSITORY/510020403/1037/NEWS04


snip
Cataldie, a former medical examiner, acknowledged that identifying and releasing bodies has been painfully slow. Of the nearly 8,000 bodies taken to the morgue, he said, just 32 have been identified positively and another 340 have been identified tentatively.

Because many bodies decomposed in heat and floodwaters after being left uncollected, Cataldie said, some victims never will be identified and their cause of death never known.

Forensic specialists supervised by the Federal Emergency Management Agency are taking X-rays and fingerprints of the corpses, but identifying bodies and notifying next-of-kin is being handled by state officials. Their greatest fear is misidentifying a corpse in the deluge of bodies. snip

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051002/REPOSITORY/510020403/1037/NEWS04

[SoCalDem]

14. Praise Jeebus.. 7,028 have been resurrected

The official count is 972, so either a lot have 'arisin" or they were just attention seekers and pretending...:sarcasm:

[markus]

18. Thank you

I missed that one.

That needs to go into my blog as part of the lead.

[jarnocan]

22. Holy bat crap

this is important, will the Mainstream (larger)media even notice. should we make them?

[dogday]

26. What is the reason for keeping the actual amount

of dead people a secret? I mean the public has seen it all, they need to know the correct amount.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

40. It goes to the size of Chimp's fuck-up.

Thousands of dead would ruin him.

[serryjw]

41. This is so horrible in so many ways

but you just added another...Without a body no life insurance will be paid.

[Kailassa]

44. I checked your link

and it says: "Cataldie, a former medical examiner, acknowledged that identifying and releasing bodies has been painfully slow. Of the nearly 800 bodies taken to the morgue, he said, just 32 have been identified positively and another 340 have been identified tentatively."

Is it possible you misread it, or has the article been changed since you saw it?

That is one bothersome thing about articles on the net, they can all be manipulated to distort history.

[IndyOp]

45. It says 8,000 as of Tuesday at 9:30 pm...

"Cataldie, a former medical examiner, acknowledged that identifying and releasing bodies has been painfully slow. Of the nearly 8,000 bodies taken to the morgue, he said, just 32 have been identified positively and another 340 have been identified tentatively."

Edit: Can't spell 'It' :dunce:

[Kadie]

51. This is weird.

When I click on the top link it says 8,000 bodies, the second link says 800. Looks like the same URL to me. :shrug:

The L.A. Times link I posted below also says 800 bodies.

[Kadie]

49. L.A. Times article says 800. link

A SHATTERED GULF COAST

Families Lose Loved Ones Again -- in a Bureaucratic Mire
By David Zucchino and Nicholas Riccardi, Times Staff Writers

snip...
Cataldie, a former medical examiner, acknowledged that identifying and releasing bodies had been painfully slow. Of more than 800 bodies delivered to the St. Gabriel morgue, he said, 32 have been positively identified and 340 have been tentatively identified.

The official death toll in Louisiana from Hurricane Katrina is 932, and more bodies continue to be found.

more...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-bodies2oct02,0,5171979.story?coll=la-home-nation

[SSX]

11. Good questions- no answers

The storm surge came in and then it left. Probably a lot of bodies with it. I suspect we will be hearing stories of shrimp boats and trawlers finding bodies with their catches for a while.
More will be buried in the razing and reconstruction.
History will report them as the "disappeared" from Katrina.
We are living in a truly sad time.

[i_c_a_White_Ghost]

12. They don't fit in shrubs plans

[SoCalDem]

15. Yep.. they will be "presumed" relocated to their "new" hometowns

living the good life.... That is why survivors HAD to be scattered.. the media has the attention span of a gnat, so there will be few "reunion stories or follow up as the days pass, and more blonde wihte coeds make "bad choices"..

These separated famil;ies may NEVER know what happened to a large part of their family..They may actually prefer NOT to know..:cry:.. It's probably comforting to think that your cousins, aunts, etc are just living somewhere else, than to imagine them lying under tonsa of mud and garbage:(

[Riverman]

13. Oops! Wrong thread. I thought title referred to the Democrats!

I am a democrat, always have been, want my party to actually fight for our beliefs - not roll-over at every opportunity! 5-10K dead and missing! Why aren't the democrats screaming mad, demanding mass resignations of this crimminal administration instead of playing kissy face with the person who will consolidate the Supreme Court for the lunatic fringe who will take our civil rights aways with faster than a New York minute! Disgusting, disgusting disgusting!

Did you hear Bush this morning, he wants to use the military to enforce quarantines, restrict travel, when the bird flu strikes? What's next martial law, suspension of the constitution, declare himself President for Life!

Sometimes I feel like this is pre-war Germany and not enough people are speaking up, fighting back as our friends and neighbors, and family are being put on the trains!

[leftchick]

19. why indeed and Nominated!

LYING FUCKING BASTARDS.

[speedoo]

23. This is the best argument for an independent investigation. n/t

[targetpractice]

24. Update from Nat. Center for Missing Children...

According to National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, a total of 4,614 children have been reported missing, displaced or seeking parents as a result of Katrina/Rita. 2,189 or 47% of those cases have been resolved.

12,095 adults have been reported missing as a result of Katrina/Rita and 4,217 (35%) cases have been resolved.

Source: National Center for Missing and Exploited Children call/case update (PDF file)


On edit: I recall hearing on CNN that all of the "found children seeking parents in other shelters" cases had been resolved. But, not 100% sure about that.

[MissWaverly]

33. + up the unresolved cases = 10,303 missing presumed dead

[Art_from_Ark]

50. Interesting term, "resolved"

Having a case "resolved" does not necessarily mean that the missing person was located alive.

[torreador]

28. Your asking too much.

Physical laws state that moving water is the most powerful physical force on the face of this planet. The water moved in, the people died, the water moved out and the bodies went with it. They would be punched and drained of blood by sharp obstacles and hazards and with no blood to deteriorate and turn into gas the body does not float. Once sunk all the carrion eaters get to it and it never is found. To blame any government on this is just wrong. No, all the homes were not searched but, hasn't there been enough breaking and entering for one disaster?
Many more will eventually be found and many still will not be. This is a fact of life in any disaster natural or man made.

Sincerely, torreador

[speedoo]

30. You are missing the point.

The government is being accused of using a variety of ways to understate the number of dead.

[markus]

39. Fine

Then let's be honest about how many people died on 9-11. What, a couple of hundred? That's all the bodies they found.

I just want the people of New Orleans treated equally. They are not.

[BrklynLiberal]

34. Keeping the body count down keeps the horror down...so BushCo thinks.

The people that are not being counted are primarily the poor and the voiceless. They and their families have no one to speak for them. In most cases their friends and families have been dispersed all around the country and probably will never see their homes again. They will never be in a position to confirm that their loved ones were killed by Katrina. In fact, they will never even be able to prove that their missing loved ones ever even existed. All legal papers and other forms of proof no longer are anywhere to be found.

[halobeam]

35. Here's an honest question,

if they aren't "dead" according to the gov't, then their families can't collect life insurance and the kids can't collect soc. security checks that would be normally issued, is that right?

[BrklynLiberal]

36. Good point.

[vanboggie]

37. That occurred to me also

I kind of figured this would happen with the funeral-gate bunch involved. All that and the horror of his Chimperial Majesty playing guitar while thousands died, and I'd say this could be a very credible story.

[raccoon]

55. Good idea.

And how long is it before someone can be presumed legally dead because they've been missing for a certain period of time?

There ought to be a special act of Congress to cover the survivors of Katrina, so their relatives don't have to wait X years to collect any survivor's benefits.

Any DU'ers out there who have worked with life insurance and know about cases like this?

[serryjw]

42. Have you noticed we have NO NEWS on this

except a few local PICS of people receiving donated clothing. I wonder ( just like 9-11) how many were illegal and no family members in going to come forward

[lonestarnot]

53. No news ever!

[halobeam]

52. Kick....

Has anyone heard anything on the airwaves yet?