The Tide Is Not Turning.

[Ripley]

It appears a majority of Americans are now unhappy with the direction of our Economy. They're angry they have to pay $3.50 a gallon. They're disgusted with FEMA (READ: The Federal Government). The perennial distrust of Congress is upon us again. The War has become a boring game where our team might lose.

The Storm Surge is not turning. The stench of rotting humans, animals, vegetation, sewage, toxic sludge, neglect, incompetence and failure have spread further inland than I-10. That swill of a martini is in every American's belly. And it is burning a hole in some of them.

But don't mistake a bellyache for a Tide Turning. For one thing, Bush/Cheney aren't going anywhere (keep on dreaming about indictments and impeachment and you are surely too high). Secondly, there is no place to go. Where is the cure for my stomach ache?

Most people are unaware of the underground river. It is stealthy and only pops up it's head in places like "Bill Bennett's abortion theory" or "Indiana's Unauthorized Reproduction Bill" or a casual statement at a press conference about the Military being the lead agency in a flu outbreak and establishing martial law and quarantine for entire CITIES.

That river is the tide everyone should be worried about. Where's a good Skipper when you need one?

[buff2]

1. Thanks

Reading negative defeatist shit makes me feel SO good. :eyes:

[Ripley]

2. I see. I am negative and a defeatist.

Tell me what positive and winning things are going on now?

[Ripley]

3. You mean the fact that Tom Cruise impregnated someone?

Yes, I agree. That is worth more discussion time.

[bergamot]

107. If things are negative

then being a "negativist" is a sensible course.

Keep going, you're doing fine.

[NervousRex]

5. And....

it's all about feeling good, right? :eyes:

[PowerToThePeople]

75. Holy Sh*%, I remember garbage pail kids...

I had that card. they rocked...

[DerekG]

14. It's not defeatist; just healthy pessimism

I've scoured far too many history books to post a "Bush is toast" thread.

Fascists don't give a damn about public opinion (especially when they own the mainstream media). Even more fortunate for them, the opposition party is rife with spineless doughfaces who would make the Vichy politicos flush (shouldn't our Democratic saviors be a wee bit concerned about BBV?).

[melody]

38. The defeatists do the work of the RW for them

You're trying to kill off movement so it'll agree with your stagnation.

That's the way the strategists have worked for fifty years now. Now we're doing it for ourselves. Pessimism isn't healthy - in fact, it can be shown to be neurologically unhealthy.

I've read those same history books - and I know that times such as these ARE the times when real change happens.

[DerekG]

60. I'm asserting that the system's bought and paid for

The only thing I want killed off is the national security state: the monstrous child of Harry S. Truman that has doomed us to perpetual war and a permanent wartime economy. I'm just a small (r)epublican who doesn't like this empire business, and I am not forgiving of those tacit liberals who have a stake in said enterprise.

And please don't confuse pessimism for despair: the former is a means with which one can eschew sentimentality; the latter is poisonous and, in the Judeo-Christian tradition, a sin against God.

[melody]

68. minced words, splitting hairs

I think there is plentiful evidence that the change happening now is profound and permanent. I say this as a 45 year old lifelong "I'll believe it when I see it person". What the sane people (and that's what we're talking about here - the sane people versus the insane, not Democrat vs. Republican anymore) seem to be doing is standing back and letting the truly crazy bastards expose the extremism and racism many liberals knew all along the right reveled in. Al Gore has come out very firmly and strongly against these monsters. Howard Dean and Barbara Boxer haven't done badly either.

If the right is obviously (to everyone) the force causing problems and making huge and unhappy changes, the public may finally become sensitized to the nonsense we've all had to deal with in fits and spurts since Ronald Reagan took over. They'll compare it to Bill Clinton's eight years, and the net result may well be the final death of this extremism brewing here for twenty years. The poor and middle class outnumber the rich by far. They'll have to deal with our unhappiness to one extreme or another. Really the sane people of the world have only to do is stand back and support the framework behind the scenes.

BTW, pessimism and despair have the same dictionary definition. In application, one is the precursor of the other. Rationality tells us that a hopeful approach is in order in most cases.

[Ripley]

70. Are you calling me irrational?

I'm about your age. I wrote a post about the world as I see it today.

Why do some of yall suspect I am the Devil or somethin?

Don't take my little post as the Divine Direction for the Party of Those Who Will Make Life Wonderful. Cause it wasn't intended as such.

Maybe DU has gotten so big that art from the heart is immediately analyzed and dissected into little tiny pieces.

[melody]

71. Oy

No, I didn't call you irrational. If I was going to call you irrational, I'd have done so.

Just as you have the right to state your opinions, others have the right to respond. Did you think you were speaking in a vacuum?

[Ripley]

77. You said:

"The defeatists do the work of the RW for them" in response to my post. And I find it pretty insulting that you called me a "defeatist" and that I am somehow working for Rove.

This site is not for Democrats Only. I am not a defeatist, but a realist. And no I do not think I am speaking in a vacuum.

I honestly hope you see a change, no, A CHANGE is needed to get things done right.

And telling me pessimism is unhealthy is pretty insulting. Your analysis on my mental health is absurd~ but go for defending the status quo which has gotten all of us into this pit.

[melody]

88. oy again

If you post a defeatist post in an open forum, which I deem your post to be, I'll reply to it saying its defeatist.

I have no wish to enter into a pissing session. There are far too many important matters in the world.

Have your last word and lets get on with life.

[hippywife]

91. That kind of thinking

is why we are in the mess we are in now. In other eras victories were won in the areas of workers rights, civil rights, women's rights, the right to choose, and massive dissent brought the end to a war. Everyone thought that sanity had won the day and there would be no turning back from that.

When there are years, even decades, of peace and prosperity, people become too comfortable and induced into a trance of materialism. They stop paying attention and neglect to teach their children, who have never known such problems, they hard lessons of the past.

Never assume this fight is ever over. That was our mistake the last time. Let's not repeat it.

[bergamot]

108. Victories were won

because, among other reasons, people possessed concepts of "victory" that inproved their lives and sometimes involved significant social changes. That's a large difference between Then and Now, and why some of us sound like "defeatists."

[judy]

4. Well, I hate to say this, but I kinda agree with you Ripley...

Every now and then, I get a whiff of the stench of the Underground River, and I feel a wave of gross anxiety washing over me, as well as astonishment that so few people can actually smell it.

Sometimes, I think that the only way we can get out of this is to realize that it is there. If we keep on pretending it is not there, we will lose every time and feel even more discouraged.

The underground river, in my view, is the realization that BushCo is not politics as usual, right, left, conservatives, liberals, but a nefarious wave of fascism that has been brewing since the early 80's. Or when did it start? Sometimes I think the start was around the Kennedy assassinations + MLK's assassination.
As some smart person said on AAR the other day, this is not a matter of right and left, but of right and wrong.

So how do you fight against the underground river? I think pointing it out is a good start, even though you get into a lot of trouble pointing it out...

That said, I sure hope we are wrong.

[Ripley]

10. I don't think we are wrong.

Thanks for your response. The whiff has to be disseminated somehow. I've been saying the "media is the problem" for years.

It burns me up inside that there are so many wealthy liberals who choose not to invest in some mainstream counters to the daily propaganda.

[mattclearing]

15. I usually track it back to the JFK assasination too.

An even better estimate would be Eisenhower's farewell address.

[Ripley]

18. Military Industrial Complex statement

Right? Whodathunkit?

[MADem]

99. Originally, military - industrial - CONGRESSIONAL complex

He took out the third word because he thought it would piss too many people off.

My view: you can stand up, fight the power, or give up and have another drink. I'd rather fight than drink with the likes of these kinds of guys:

[yodermon]

82. It goes back to Hiroshima.

As soon as the 1st nuke went off, the Ruling Elite realized that they couldn't just go around wiping out other countries wholesale with direct military force any more. With the advent of the nuclear age and MAD, their imperialist designs had to be accomplished via subterfuge, covert operations, counterintelligence programs, right-wing coups, economic hit-men, corporate personhood, propaganda campaigns, agents provacateurs, assassinations, guerilla warfare, etc. etc.

The underground river is vaster, wider, deeper, and more labyrinthine than you (or I) could possibly imagine. (I'd say it actually resembles the Mississippi delta more than a single river.) It is not exactly a Vast Conspiracy (though there are plenty of conspirators); it is more a natrual confluence of the agendas of the ultra-powerful.

Read JFK by L. Fletcher Prouty, or talk to H20 Man, robertpaulson, octafish or a myriad of others on DU for a better explanation bcz I can barely grasp it.

[NVMojo]

93. America's been taking a screwing for so long, the victims don't know

how else to feel sometimes ...

[mom cat]

100. Then lets take it back to when Columbus invaded the hemisphere.

Or better yet, the the overthrow of pre patriarchal cultures.

[liberalla]

111. Wow. For someone who can barely grasp it,

you sure did a good job expressing it in two short paragraphs!

Your Mississippi delta analogy is brilliant.

"...a natural confluence of the agendas of the ultra-powerful."

[NewInNewJ.]

6. Wow!

[soothsayer]

7. Hey, it takes time to change direction. The tide IS turning.

It's just hard to see it clearly right now.

[BillZBubb]

8. True, but the tide can be turned.

If our party gets its act together and delivers a unified message that resonates with the public, we can not only turn the tide, but inundate the right.

That's a big "if" given our recent history, but at least the situation is ripe for a huge re-orientation.

[Ripley]

12. What is the unified message?

That resonates with the public? Tell me. Tell them. Tell us all.

[Carni]

21. You don't have to look far the unified message is

We can't fill our gas tanks, we can't buy anything but food and essentials -- We have two wars going on with no way to pay for them and we're fed up with the assholes in DC.

Do you know how many times I hear that a day from people of all walks of life?

At least 30.

Everywhere I go I hear people bitching, their jobs have disappeared, they can't afford gas, they are worried about how they will heat their homes and the list goes on and on and on...

I'll grant you one thing...you are right, the tide is not turning because it was all an illusion in the first place.

A handful of the population adored bush and foisted him on us over the course of two stolen elections.

Our greedy media were getting their palms greased and they were personally enjoying the power and their fat tax cuts.

We have been fed a line of bullshit for 6 years by the minority of the population but everyone was either too busy or too scared to go against the grain of what they thought was *the norm*

The norm never was *bush country* type thinking to begin with.

[Ripley]

26. And WHO is taking advantage of this nightmare?

No one sees a leader on the opposite side. I sure don't.

[Carni]

30. Hey--right about now people would install my cat into office

The people I hear complaining really don't seem to give a damn who, or what takes over, as long as their last name isn't bush or Cheney.

I cannot repeat what I actually hear people saying about him (I mean in public they are saying these things) or I would have the SS on my door step.

[lastliberalintexas]

45. Maybe for now

But wait until the next election cycle when gas parices miraculously drop (enough) and the specters of gay marriages, forced abortions of all white babies and government sponsored Satanic rituals rear their ugly heads again. Those same people will more than likely fall back in line and vote how they are told to- for the repubs of course.

[Carni]

48. I REALLY doubt it

The people I am hearing don't give a rat's ass about gay marriage or any of the rest of it.

I will never believe that more than 30% of the country is hard core right religious whacko leaning...we've been sold a bill of goods.

[raccoon]

104. Carni, what kind of work are you in that you're hearing this?

(this is heartening news, by the way).

[firefox]

23. The country has gone to hell.

And that is despite the media distortions of America the Wonderful. I realize this is not what you wanted to hear, but ask all your friends and ask if the country has gone to hell and see if that is not what unifies us.

What do you think everyone like him is saying? I mean DU is full of somebody needs to do something to fix this mess and they are just being slam honest and you have to think that the average DUer reader is highly informed.

The country has gone to hell. You must hear the resonance, because you are complaining about in this thread.

[Walt Starr]

9. So who took a poop in your wheaties?

And why the fuck would you want to spread that shit here?

[Ripley]

11. Wow. I didn't expect you to attack me.

Spread what shit?

[Ripley]

16. Hello Walt!

What shit am I spreading "here"? Care to elaborate?

[Walt Starr]

19. Doom, gloom, woe is me

That shit.

[Ripley]

20. Okay happy face...

Tell me the GOOD NEWS!

[Walt Starr]

22. Scuttlebutt around D.C. says there will be at least a dozen indictments

in the Plame affair.

Frist is looking at a Martha charge for his insider trading.

DeLay could beat the wrap in the Texas charges, but the Abramoff case will stick to him like glue.

Lot's of stuff to be happy about.

And look at it this way, Miers is 60 and does not appear to be in the best of health.

[Ripley]

28. BS

Where do you get scuttlebutt from DC?

[Walt Starr]

34. Go read Americablog

maybe you'll cheer up.

:eyes:

[Donailin]

72. gotta agree with walt

at least tonight. rumors floating there are 22 indictments which would be nothing short of orgasmic. The republican party doesn't need much help from us to fail, they're self destructing.

and thing about evil that's for sure: it always self destructs, turns on itself, does itself in. arrogant incompetence is like that.

What we should be concerned about is how organized will WE be when it comes time to pick up the pieces.

[Ripley]

78. You mean Skipper?

Uh huh. I believe I addressed that fucking question and no body can answer it for me!

[Donailin]

95. Maybe great leaders are born out of the ashes of someone

else's demise. Sort of like great writers who don't have an idea until it's seven hours till deadline.

[Ripley]

24. Woe is me infers that I am whining for my self.

That would be an incorrect assumption on your part.

My old utility go-to truck died on me at a garden center today once I loaded up Black Cow and mulch. I sat in the hot sun here in the South and waited for AAA to give me a jump (which turned into a tow).

The Alabama tow truck was called "Pop and Son Towing" and it was a "cadillac" according to them. They let me sit in the front seat. I mentioned the price of gas, and the drive went OFF on a rant about diesel fuel prices. Somehow in that tow, we got to a conversation where these good old boys in the Heart of Dixie said the country was fucked up. Yet. Guess what? The driver looked at me and said, why can't yall Democrats run a guy that understand us?

[Walt Starr]

25. Nope, I'd say it was 100% accurate. n/t

[Ripley]

27. Oh, I see, because I had a bad day, I can't understand the world?

Yeah, right Walt. Crime in Chicago helped make your decisions and it's okay. But when my experiences fuel my decisions, it's selfish?

[Walt Starr]

29. Dude, take whatever you like from this

but your consistent complaints about my observation tend to suggest I've struck a nerve.

Might be time to drop back and re-evaluate.

[Ripley]

31. My complaints? So response = complaint in your world?

Which nerve do you think you hit?

[Walt Starr]

33. Okay, okay, you're right, the tide is not turning

the world is about to end and there's nothing an anybody can do to stop it.

Doom & Gloom
Doom & Gloom
Doom & Gloom
Doom & Gloom
Doom & Gloom
Doom & Gloom
Doom & Gloom


I hope that makes you feel better.

:eyes:

[Ripley]

35. Evidence please?

And why do you think I said the world is about to end, when I did not, DUDE?

[Walt Starr]

37. Piffle

Nothing more needs to be said.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bergamot]

109. The Democrats have.

That the truck driver didn't notice it is part of the problem.

[firefox]

13. It is more a cry for help don't you think?

America Inc does not give a dam about the general welfare of its people. Admitting reality is the first step.

But really, who is calling for the train to stop and turn around? He is. I am. Millions are. But who, just any one person, is recognized as the champion for change? Who with any notoriety even calls a fascist a fascist?

I respect Nader for his constant reminder of the duopoly and corporatism, but he almost does not count because of the way he is shot at from both sides and is filtered out by the media, plus being ancient. Ventura is my favorite tell-it-like-it-is man. Robert Kennedy, Jr. is trying to make a name for himself and he could make some real political hay if he just stays real.

There are millions of points of light and a few beacons like Cindy Sheehan and Kucinich, but there is no great illuminator of the kind hope for in Obama.

[ncteechur]

17. Skipper? All we got left with was Gilligan!!!!!!

[Marr]

32. I don't understand posts like this- I really don't.

Boo fucking hoo, why bother getting out of bed, we lose before we begin, blah blah fucking BLAH.

The fact is that the conservative movement is collapsing in on itself. You say that means nothing in itself, and I agree. But the board is about to be cleared. How it's reset is up to us.

[BuyingThyme]

36. It ain't a tide a turnin'. There's a tsunami on the horizon.

It slowly surges, and then, before you know it, we're under water.

I like swimin'.

[natrat]

39. creepy times

the enemy are professional bad guys and we are not even aware that we have a serious problem

[melody]

40. Be the skipper

Yeah, it's a little Shirley MacLainish, but someone has to do it. Why not you?

[Greyhound]

42. Wow is right. Sorry for all the vitriol directed at your honest assessment

and implicit warning. It is indicative of the amerikan population in general. We are happy with the current fantasy of the imminent collapse of the evil RW, don't you go trying to bring us down man. Few if any want to look too closely at what is still to come. The sting of these last 10 years or so will be felt for decades at least and since the dems have shown that they don't intend to do anything about it, we'll just stick our heads in the sand and take succor in a few minor setbacks.
Ah well, WTF, keep on keepin' on bro/sis.
:puke:

[melody]

43. And this post is indicative why we - the majority - don't run the country

We rip each other apart.

He/she isn't "keepin' on", he/she is suggesting we're all doomed and shouldn't do anything because we won't do anything. How does that help the cause?

[Walt Starr]

44. Careful, now the Doomandgloom folks will attack you

Heck, all I asked was who pooped in the OP's wheaties and got visciously attacked on a personal level.

Just agree with doomandgloomers and move on. One questions their motivations for even being on DU, if you ask me.

[Ripley]

47. LOL!

Where did I visciously attack you on a personal level?

Doom and Gloom. Okay, let's discuss how that "frames the issues" shall we?

Name one leader in the Democratic Party that Americans, paying attention to politics, can identify as one who opposes the bills passed, the devastating comments made recently? Howard Dean does not count.

[Walt Starr]

61. Post 41 n/t

[Ripley]

63. I never thought I'd see a ...

lightweight under certain handles. Color me surprised.

[Walt Starr]

64. You asked, I answered. Color me honest. n/t

[Ripley]

65. You alerted/deleted on my post that pointed out your quest.

What? Are you afraid people might wonder about that quest?

[Walt Starr]

66. I am not empowered to delete any post on DU n/t

[Ripley]

67. Alert is your friend.

Obviously. Can't take the heat about your own posting history, yet you feel free to lump me in with some kinda group of who knows what in your mind and skirt the rules.

Cheap shots.

[Ripley]

49. One questions their motivations for even being on DU, if you ask me.

Mirror.

[Ripley]

53. No verbatim quote this time. Just this...

Why are you so flippant and angry at me on a website that is supposed to be inclusive of liberal and progressive thoughts?

You have made an effort in my thread to marginalize me, by using inflammatory words and implying I say "the end of the world is near." Which is not my position at all.

You might want to back off a little. (As you instructed me to above.)

[DemocracyInaction]

46. The Tide May Be Turning BUT

..the Dems don't have a boat either. And the sooner some wannabe president politician on our side figures that out and quickly hammers together an ark, the better that person will be to sail all the way in '08. I've seen too many polls over the last weeks that are so-so to not very great for Dems. The people seem to be pissing more at Bush and "the Congress" without seperating out the Dems and the Repubs. We have seen "tide turning" times before and then gone nutso when our little boat starts sinking. This is a big, big wave this time BUT it has to be met by some cleaver national-type Dem figure in order to permanently tip and drown the republican boat with all the rats aboard. If not, the advantage still stays with Repubs in Congressional races. People hate all those damn Congressmen yet love their Rep or Senator, etc. This has to get to the point of making people want to vomit at the designation "republican" and that job is what WE, the Dems, have to do in a very outright and deliberate manner. Waiting for them to sink their own boat has never worked to date nor waiting for "events" to sink their boat.

[Lexingtonian]

50. I'll take "You're So Incredibly Wrong" for $500, Alex.

Magical theories of Bush's demise have never panned out, that's true. Why you believe that only magical ones have any efficacy only you can tell us.

Out here in the actual reality-based community the theories are a little different and they happen to work just fine. If you had bothered to follow polling closely over the past four years you would probably have known that Hurricane Katrina and such things were not going to change polling numbers in any permanent observable way.

Here's stuff that will actually drop Bush/Republican ratings during the next 6-9 months:
-1-2 major Al Qaeda attacks in the U.S. or on the Western European 'Coalition Partners'
-Britain (and Italy, Australia, Netherlands) leaving the Coalition
-the Iraqi constitution not being ratified, or being ratified, causing overt civil war
-changing the Alternative Minimum Tax in any major way, or other major tax law change
-Tom DeLay being demonstrated to be corrupt and a lawbreaker (conviction is irrelevant)
-actually putting the Roe v Wade verdict at risk in a concrete way

Moderate Republicans will leave Bush and the present Congress over these things. The effect will be small, 1% or 2% per item. But these are the onetime rather strong supporters whose 5-6% of the electorate were the bloc that created Republican majorities in offyear and midterm elections these past 14 years.

[newswolf56]

51. I agree with you. As to the source of the "underground river," that...

dates back to the Russian Revolution of 1917: the capitalists terrified beyond belief Marx's notion of "economic democracy" might spread west into Europe and across the Atlantic to America -- a possibility the barons of the boardroom regarded as all the more horrifying because of the Soviet threat to back world revolution with force: not just the Red Army but the peerless Soviet intelligence apparatus.

Capitalism's first and instinctive response to the Russian Revolution was fascism: Italy, Germany, Spain. But in the western democracies, cooler heads prevailed: the New Deal in the U.S., the so-called "welfare states" in Europe -- recognition of the historical truth of class-struggle, and from that giant step, government as the protector of the people against the oligarchy. Capitalism appeared to adapt, to grow a conscience.

But that was only illusion: note the assassinations and betrayals of the '60s, the subsequent horrors of Chile, Mexico City, Bhopal, Love Canal, the deadly fearful message of the Karen Silkwood case.

Then came Reagan: open war on the New Deal, the perversion of greed into a virtue, wealth and the quest for wealth as the ultimate high.

Next the Soviet Union collapsed: though the Soviets had long been discredited by the Stalinist betrayal of their revolution, their existence nevertheless inspired worldwide hope that genuine economic democracy might yet prevail -- somehow, somewhere -- and thus despite its tyrannies the U.S.S.R. had acted as a brake on capitalist excess.

But now with the Soviet Union gone there was nothing to prevent capitalism from reverting not only to its pre-1917 savagery but to the fascist politics that had grown from its initial reaction to the Russian Revolution, and that is precisely what has happened from the '80s onward, precisely what is happening now -- maximum concentration of wealth, maximum disempowerment of everyone who is not part of the oligarchy: outsourcing, downsizing, forcible reduction of wages, looting of pensions, theft of investments, methodical destruction of the social safety net (with both parties evidencing equal hostility to the poor, the disabled and the limited-income elderly) -- and now skyrocketing prices, the genocidal aftermath of Katrina, the ever more blatant statements of racism and fascism, the ever more obvious drift toward theocracy: the velvet slipper of "compassionate conservatism" ever more blatantly striped off to reveal the hobnailed jackboot of fascism.

What we saw in New Orleans a month ago is a portrait of America's inescapable future. Bush is the ultimate achievement of capitalism -- not a moronic bungler at all but instead the most cunning tyrant in U.S. history, put in office specifically to secure the final and irrevocable victory of money supremacy: it is self-indulgent head-in-the-sand denial to believe anything else. Bush's purpose is to enshrine the oligarchy as a permanent aristocracy with the omnipotence of the Nazi ubermenschen -- the Fundamentalist "select" of god, the "chosen" -- and all the rest of us as untermenschen, with all of the implicit degradation. New Orleans again -- and just in case we become too rebellious, the repugnant spice of racial hatemongering to distract us: "there is savagery in the SuperDome; they are shooting at the rescuers."

Thus the ultimate function of theocracy whether Christian or Islamic (and the reason that from the perspective of the board room theocracy is so ultimately desirable): not merely to opiate the masses, but to police them with witch-burnings, stonings, floggings, terror.

As to why the American people have already surrendered -- as to the intellectual conquest that now consolidates the political conquest -- there was a vital thread on this site yesterday:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2134862

To which I would add but three statements:

For a long while I have sung the praises of John Edwards as the only Democrat who even begins to comprehend the necessity of revitalizing the New Deal and resurrecting the government's role of protector of the people against the malevolence of the oligarchy. I have resoundingly damned other Democrats for their obvious collaboration with the forces that ever more clearly seek our total subjugation. But perhaps Edwards is even more courageous than I supposed -- for perhaps all that is motivating the other Democrats is the sure knowledge of what is coming and a concurrent desire to stay out of the camps.

My next statement is even more grim: the fact history proves that once a people surrenders to oppression, liberation can only come from without.

But to say these things is not defeatism. It is rather the opposite -- expression of the heartfelt hope it is not already too late.

[natrat]

55. holy shit

if that dont put it in the clear light of day

[gulfcoastliberal]

74. Wow. Concise. Nice. Verrry nice!

Some may call you batshit crazy because you hit too close to home and dismantle their cherised beliefs. I call you an eloquent reality-based person. I hope you start a "journal" when/if DU implements them.

:yourock:

Edit to say some cliches here: "Those whocannot learn history are doomed to repeat it."

- George Sanatayana

"History is the only laboratory we have in which to test the consequences of thought."

-Etienne Gilson

"I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past."

-Edward Gibbon

[omega minimo]

87. Here's to "heartfelt hope" and scintillating synopsis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4984782&mesg_id=4984782

"Then came Reagan: open war on the New Deal, the perversion of greed into a virtue, wealth and the quest for wealth as the ultimate high."

The best encapsulation yet.

" -- and now skyrocketing prices, the genocidal aftermath of Katrina, the ever more blatant statements of racism and fascism, the ever more obvious drift toward theocracy: the velvet slipper of "compassionate conservatism" ever more blatantly striped off to reveal the hobnailed jackboot of fascism."

Kickass.

"Thus the ultimate function of theocracy whether Christian or Islamic (and the reason that from the perspective of the board room theocracy is so ultimately desirable): not merely to opiate the masses, but to police them with witch-burnings, stonings, floggings, terror."

The suggestion here that they will do the dirty work of policing themselves.

Thank you for your lucidity and the link.

[blindpig]

94. Well, that sums it up nicely. n/t

[sepia_steel]

52. I still believe.

I'm done with pessimism.

[HoosierClarkie]

54. Not so fast.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=3942770

The Unauthorized Reproduction Bill has been dropped.

We have to be thankful for winning the battles in an effort to keep sane.

[Ripley]

56. Good News!!

The sick bill is dead. :party:

But, oh wait! Does that make me an extremist for pointing it out?!

Thanks for the update HoosierClarkie! :)

[HoosierClarkie]

58. I do not think you are an extremist.

I do think that life is better with the glass half full. ;)

[noiretextatique]

57. hey ripley

i support your right to express an opinion that is not perceived as happy, bright, cheery and optimistic. if people need to believe the tide is turning, i certainly understand that, however, like you, i am not convinced it is. i suppose i'd rather be happily surprised than bitterly disappointed...again.

[Ripley]

59. Yes.

To your last statement. Good to see you! :)

[noiretextatique]

62. likewise

:hi: keep giving 'em heck :7

[Generator]

69. Look on the bright side

The bird flu will kill millions. You might be one of them. (or so says NBC, CDC, BBC, my National Geographic and DU General Discussion for the last few weeks)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

73. Change is gradual

Neo-cons didn't take over in one day. It took a long time. Things won't change overnight, but change is happening.

[newportdadde]

76. I do somewhat agree with you but I am a pessimist.

My personal opinion has always been Bush's poll numbers have gone down because of high gas. I believe if gas was 1.30 most Americans would give two shits about kids dying in Iraq or on the streets of NO. Its the gas which hurts the wallet that is hurting *.

I'm pretty negative I admit so hopefully I just looking at this wrong, I hope I am because if I am not then its pretty bleak.

I am feeling a tide shift but I believe its due to gas, if that went back down I believe it would loose momentum, just my take.

[frictionlessO]

79. So how are you going to fix it Ripley?

What are you suggestions?


I mean I understand where you're coming from but I could lay out about 15 (no exageration) personal anecdotes about friends and family who have stopped drinking the Kool Aid this summer and the majority was over the Iraq war and the bushco bullshit that was being spewed in direct contradiction to what was happening on the ground. Most of these people I hadn't even attempted to talk to about Plame, Abu Ghraib (and Bahgram and the whole system), voting, military benefits (though most knew about that as they are military), money laundering, Franklin (I had barely kept up on that one myself), payola propagannonda, DSMs (though I think a few actually knew about it from a forward that I sent out to mutual friends to sign Conyers DSM petition)... seriously the list goes on and on Katrina only confirmed their new found return to reality.

Though there are still some hardcore believers in the bush cult I hope one day will get over the their fear of brown people and liberals and love me once again.

So again what are you expecting of your fellow DU'ers here? Im finding it hard not to be a bit hopeful (I mean Im not giddy but I see possibilities that I was sure weren't there last Spring)...

anyways just asking , so please no jumping all over my shit and calling into question my intellect or what I may or may not have ingested to produce that bit of hope.

[Ripley]

80. Oh, it's up to me to fix it now?!

Damn is DU hardass or what? No, I'm not gonna jump your shit.

I just want people to reconsider their daily "heroes" no matter who they may be, because life isn't always what it seems to be.

False hope is not hope. It is manipulation. I want people to wake up in every aspect there is. When slackjawsmirkyboy gets to install two SC justices with hardly a peep out of the Dems, you gotta wonder what the fuck is going on.

Results. What are they?

[Independent_Liberal]

81. If you're a person who tries not to get their hopes up, that's...

...understandable. But when you think about it, a lot of good things have happened this year. John Conyers has been working closely with us Internet activists. I mean, look at all the shit we were able to dig up on the Downing Street Memo. The Plame Affair has become quite a controversy. Cindy Sheehan has had an enormous impact and has helped the anti-war movement greatly. DeLay, Abramoff, and Safavian have all been indicted and who knows who could be next? Frist? Rove? Libby? Personally, I think things are starting to fall apart fast. As for impeachment, I know most of the people around here seem to think it's a pipe dream, but didn't so many other great accomplishments in the past seem like pipe dreams? I just tell everybody, you never know something until you try.

[newswolf56]

83. As newportdadde said, the apparent shift is "due to gas":

The most consistently reliable polls show that fully 80 percent of white America refuses to admit the aftermath of Katrina was motivated by racism or class warfare; that about half of all white Americans (depending on the source, 48 to 51 percent) do NOT blame Bush or his administration for the Katrina aftermath; that 70 percent of all Americans are outraged by skyrocketing gas prices; that about half blame Bush.

Meanwhile, some 68 percent of black Americans believe the aftermath of Katrina was entirely motivated by race hatred: in other words, genocide. In which context note Paul Krugman's thesis that race hatred is THE reason the United States is -- as a matter of bipartisan policy -- more murderously vicious than any industrialized country on earth in its policies toward the poor: not just the post-Katrina atrocities, but the methodical destruction of the social safety net and (by implication) the damning fact that -- again among the industrial nations -- the U.S. has by far the worst public transport on the planet.

Krugman's work -- which I believe is the most important American political essay since the Civil War -- is available (without registration) here:

http://www.pkarchive.org/column/091905.html

Think of the blacks and poor whites killed by the aftermath of Katrina as victims of lynchings: the real truth about America today. Though race hatred has gone underground, Krugman's analysis convinces me it is no less intense than it was a century ago. The Ku Klux Nation Krugman describes is not anywhere close to a turning point.

In fact I believe the Republicans are now playing to white America's clandestine applause at the post-Katrina deaths and horror: note Barbara Bush's sneering comment that the victims of Katrina are better off for their victimization, and the unprecedented brazen Nazism of Bennett's call for reducing the crime rate by eliminating black births.

Moreover, it is a favorite tactic of oppressors the world over to allow just enough freedom to facilitate the illusion of democracy: precisely as Bush is doing by "apologizing" for New Orleans even as he packs the Supreme Court with appointees who will sanction just such atrocities -- and far worse -- in the future. Or as the oligarchy's pet media does -- for example the "mass-media-is-waking-up" TV rants from New Orleans -- all to preserve the Big Lie of a free press (about which there was a wonderful Al Gore speech linked live -- and therefore not repeatable -- here on DU earlier today).

Gore says American liberty has never been in worse jeopardy -- not ever.

But here again Ripley (with whom I have surely disagreed on certain issues in the past) is absolutely right: because the corporate media has become the modern counterpart of Josef Goebbels' Ministry of Propaganda, most of the public will never hear President Gore say what he said today, just as the public will never hear John Edwards' acknowledgment of the ugly truths of racism and class warfare and his impassioned call for resurrection of the New Deal. More and more, I believe we have adequate leadership already -- that it is being methodically silenced by corporate censorship. Why? Because just as I said above, Bush is the ultimate achievement of global capitalism -- and the oligarchy (and therefore its media propagandists) will do everything they deem necessary to ensure his triumph.

Pessimistic as I am, I believe we can yet win this fight.

What we need to do is stop thinking of ourselves as "everyday Americans" (and therefore insulated from tragedy) because, in truth, that concept is now another Big Lie.

We are all potential victims of the class war the oligarchy is now waging to concentrate its wealth -- minorities all the more so. Today's Republicans (and far too many Democrats) are the sworn enemies of every one of us who is not insulated by wealth. Those of us who still have jobs have merely by good luck managed thus far to escape the impending victimization: deliberate, methodical reduction of the entire national workforce to the status and degradation of the Third World -- more money in the pockets of the plutocrats.

The response is to do what the Countercultural rebellion -- the "revolution in consciousness" -- did in the 1960s: become a genuine community, form affinity groups, use the power of the Internet as we in the '60s used the power of the underground press: raise consciousness, mobilize behind the leaders we already have, clear the way for new leaders to emerge.

Take back our language: rescue terms like "class struggle" and "eco-socialism" from the banishment imposed on them by fascist censorship and proudly reclaim them as our own.

Recognize that America already has its own secret police and in defense adopt the most brilliant political tactic ever, the approach evolved by '60s feminists, probably the greatest contribution in human history to the methodology of rebellion: the building of organizations that are hierarchy-free and therefore cannot be infiltrated or co-opted by any of the oligarchy's conventional agents of oppression.

Be our own "outside agitators" -- do exactly what we are doing here tonight. Awake: and using the infinite blessing of our Constitution and its absolution from the necessity of violence, rise up! Retake our Party -- and perhaps then (despite the bottomless pitfalls of prejudice and the fearsome opposition of the plutocrats), we can not only win back our Nation, but fulfill its promise as never before.

[omega minimo]

86. Here's to "bottomless pitfalls"

:rofl: :toast:

Wow, NewsWolf, you certainly know how to tightrope on the knife edge of the Moebius strip....

(just thought you'd slip in a punchline, eh?)

Good prescription.

:hi:

[jarnocan]

96. GREAT post DO more links

www.worldcantwait.org We need this IMHO! We can't let this go. http://jarnocan.blogspot.com Vvlobbydays.blogspot.com just links to important info- actions, petitions NO BU**SH** Zone Just do whatever you can, and tell everyone what is happening.

[raccoon]

112. Newswolf, I read this kick-butt essay, and I think it deserves

a thread of its own.

[omega minimo]

84. Time for Ginger, Mary Anne and Lovey to step up

:bounce:

[newswolf56]

85. Recommended! Let's vote it up, folks:

This is a vital discussion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. A Friend of mine is very scared with the flu and army stories

that may be her wake up call... but she has given up mostly

And there are days I agree with you... that said, in the recent past I have seen and heard more people talking anti bush... but they are not talking bout them democrats... as the polls fall, the dems are not gaining traction... and that my friend is the sign of politics not as usual and something truly amiss.... by the way... we also have plenty of ostriches still defending the ahem moderates....

There are many elephants in this underground river... and the cost of hay alone is amino, and the stench, but it will take much more for it to fall.

Oh and this crony capitalism is not that dissimilar from the gilded age, or fascism, just that many have a serious problem admitting it.

[Binka]

90. Kick For You Ripley

Excellent thread. Lots of great posts! I wish I could add more but I am really sad today and my keyboard is getting soaked. I'm just gonna read DU for a bit. Gave you a nomination!

[Ripley]

97. I'm sorry you are so sad.

Have you talked to Ben recently? Do you normally talk to him by phone or email?

I guess my post didn't exactly cheer you up. Sorry bink.

[Binka]

101. We Talk By Phone But He Is Going On Dangerous Patrols Now

And I am so overwrought with worry. I sent him a humongous goodie package and I have not heard from him since I shipped it off and I keep thinking oh Ben please get your box and eat some candy before they kill you. I'm a babbling fool.

It is so hard. Your post is fine and there good people here sharing really brilliant analysis. No worries Rip.

[Ripley]

102. I can't imagine what you are feeling.

Please take care of yourself!

Yes, newswolf56 is pretty brilliant and much more articulate than I. Now go drink some good Italian wine and relax dear. :)

[Cocoa]

92. the Aspens are turning

they turn in clusters.

[mom cat]

98. And just look how easily they are pushing their right wing elitist

agenda after Katrina.
Getting rid of a few worn out puppets is relatively minor. As long as the puppet masters are in place and their stranglehold on the earth tightens into a death grip, we are collectively screwed.

[lateo]

103. There will be no impeachment because of the weak-kneed..

Democrats in Congress...

[meganmonkey]

105. I am sorry you feel that way

I am going to keep believing that things are changing, because guess what?

THINGS ALWAYS CHANGE!!!
That is the only truth I know.

And what better way to help things along than to believe it can change and work for the change?

You can call me naive, or unrealistic, or whatever you want. That is your right, just as it is my right to do everything I can to affect change. And boy does it feel good.

Peace.

:patriot:

[bonito]

110. Bingo! n/t

[Peace Patriot]

106. They certainly have a lot of Nazi-like plans and the parallels to

Germany 1933 are educational, but I don't think anyone in the Bush Cartel, least of all Bush, has the focus and ideological passion of Hitler. I think Bush, and more importantly Bush's handlers, are motivated solely by greed. They have no interest in governing, or creating anything, not even a fascist society. Their neocon ideology is window-dressing--a way to keep certain parties on board. They are just looters. That is their weakness.

They have no interest in convincing anybody, and have failed to convince hardly anyone of anything. The issue polls reveal this. The great majority of the American people disagree with every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range, and have done so for well over a year. The Cartel does have an interest in creating the illusion of support, and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies have done that (the doctoring of the exit polls on election night was one of their dirtier journalistic deeds in that respect), but, again, the purpose isn't to convince anyone that what the Bush Cartel is doing is virtuous or in the interests of the majority; it is to convince the majority that it is the minority--to disempower the great progressive American majority--in order to create opportunities for looting.

Deep Throat's warning was prophetic: Follow the money.

This isn't to say that this junta is not dangerous. It most certainly is. But it's VERY IMPORTANT to understand MOTIVES in designing a strategy to defeat them. Do we expend energy and thought in trying to convince their minority of supporters in a shadow-boxing type of debate on a highly rigged stage--which I think is a largely futile game? Or do we expend energy and thought, and take action, to re-empower and RE-ENFRANCHISE the majority, which I think is critically important, especially in regard to restoring our right to vote (getting rid of Bushite-controlled electronic voting)?

And what do we do about the Democratic leaders who have looked the other way (or have fallen to venal corruption) while our election system was completely corrupted? How do we break through their silence, collusion or fear? Is it possible, with concentrated and massive effort, to overwhelm the fraudulent election system with our sheer numbers? Can we work with Diebold/ES&S selected Democrats to repair this election system, bit by bit, and begin electing better representatives of the people?

The Bush Cartel White House is actually very weak, because of the extraordinary corruption at the heart of it. It's not just typical political/financial corruption--it's more like a big black hole where their loyalties and beliefs should be; a great emptiness at the core, which just sucks in more and more money. How do we strategize to defeat this great swirl of greed?

It's easy to feel defeated and demoralized, given their control of the election system. But it's also a left-handed compliment--and a key point of strategy--that they are BOTHERING to steal our votes. Must be a very powerful item, our vote. Think about that.

And think also of Nelson Mandela's 30 years in prison--to emerge triumphant and be made president of South Africa. Think of Martin Luther King and the centuries of black struggle for freedom and citizenship. Think of every effort toward human enlightenment, and every struggle for the sovereignty of the people. And go ahead and spread depression and demoralization and disempowerment around, if that's what you want to do. But it would be better to be analyzing the situation, developing a strategy based on the best analysis, and looking for our advantage as the majority with a profound history of democratic struggle behind us. Demoralization is one of the ways that they use to keep looting us.