MSNBC: Hardball !!!!

[H2O Man]

Hope everyone is watching it now -- or watches the later version. Chris has three guests. While they offer nothing new for DUers, it must be shocking for the public.

What stands out is they are saying it's Rove versus the VP's group. Of course, we've been saying that for the past two weeks on DU:GD.

[mattclearing]

1. Nice.

They may be late, but at least they're sort of barking up the right tree.

Even the New York Times has caught on to the Espionage Act implications.

This is going to get ugly.

[AspenRose]

61. Pass the kettle korn....

:popcorn:

[H2O Man]

2. The new Vanity Fair

magazine has an article that brings the Plame leak "uncomfortably close" to Cheney .....

[Ksec]

47. which would then be close to the smirking cokefreak

[Cha]

92. The little "smirking coke-freak

who thinks his shit don't stink? :)

[leftchick]

3. thank you!

tuning in now!

:popcorn:

[Pirate Smile]

4. I'm watching - He has the man who wrote "Bush's Brain" - James Moore,

Howard Fineman, Vanity Fair reporter - I'll post it when I see his name.

[liveoaktx]

75. VIDEO- Part 1

Sans the David Schuster report

[Pirate Smile]

82. Thanks, liveoaktx!

[liveoaktx]

88. VIDEO Part 2

No Oliphant or Moonie Blankley

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

102. Thank you liveoaktx and H2O Man...

... for watching bad reporters like Matthews and bringing interesting items to our attention.

Personally, I find Matthews' breathless, high-pitched, stream-of-barely-comprehensible BS annoying. At least his panel was interesting. I find Matthews to be a weather-vane rather than a journalist. That being said, that weather-vane now indicates a strong (ill) wind blowing towards the W*.

Hurricane Fitzgerald?

/Keeping the champagne on ice.

[HughMoran]

124. Thanks for the videos!

Fascinating! :applause:

[tblue37]

131. I don't have cable,

but I bet the Vanity Fair guy is James Wolcott, who has a blog at jameswolcott.com

[rodeodance]

5. are you talking of Cheney's Irag group?

[H2O Man]

7. Yep.

Matthews started out focused. He is saying that this will be tough for the administration this week.

[leftchick]

can you recap?

I only caught Michael Wolf at the end. Is this repeated later?

[H2O Man]

15. I think so.

Matthews started by saying Hardball will be covering the upcoming events closely. Then they talked about the grand jury proceedings, and how Rove is taking heat. One guest said it's getting to be a split in the White House; he mentioned Rove versus Card -- but Card doesn't do anything without Libby/Cheney okaying it.

They also noted Rove is known for his memory, so saying, "I forgot" seems weak.

Also, they noted Cheney is behaving very differently.

[leftchick]

22. Thank you and that is interesting about Card

Isn't he very close with bush? I would have figured he and rove being on the same team. So he is really with the dark, dark side of cheney and the secret government?

[H2O Man]

25. Card had it

released that he helped Bush pick the Supreme Court choice, and that Bush only told Rove afterward. I found that cheesey, which fits Card. But they are trying to marginalize Rove -- "they" being some in the White House.

[leftchick]

34. hoo boy! This could indeed get HOT!

a marginalized, humiliated and pissed off rove with an indictment over his head could make for some very awesome fireworks!

Thank you H2O Man! :hi:

[H2O Man]

36. More now!!!

Matthews identifies Rove and Libby .....

[gkhouston]

40. and marginalizing Rove is a mistake. He'll turn on them for sure.

They're hoping to make him a scapegoat, but I think putting him on the outside will virtually guarantee that he will sing, and loudly. I think he's got the personality of the hanger-on, the fan-boy who doesn't quite measure up, and they're handing Fitzgerald a wedge to drive into that insecurity. Good going, guys. :applause:

[Halliburton]

58. he might sing

but he will lie in the process. "I heard it from a low-level staffer but I can't remember who."

[gkhouston]

129. that's not going to fly with Fitzgerald. If Rove wants to cut a deal

to lighten his sentence, he'll have to do a lot better than that, IMHO. He's had a lot of power and knows where a lot of bodies are buried and if the others think they can drop him in the shit now and walk away unscathed themselves, I think they're in for a nasty surprise. His loyalty to them and the party may not extend so far as they assume.

[Cha]

94. The "fan-boy" who was holding

ALL the marbles until he over-played his game and the shite hit the fan-boy.

[FreedomAngel82]

74. If you want to know something about the Card thing

find the post where Karl says "we'll fuck him" and go there and read. The author tells how Card doesn't like Rove so I could see that with Card.

[grytpype]

118. I think they are trying to make Rove APPEAR marginalized.

There is no way Bush can function without Rove, he is indeed Bush's Brain. I don't know what Bush is going to do when his Brain is indicted, but expect Rove to hang around in a "marginalized" position while he continues to be the eminence griese of the worst administration in US history.

[aquart]

41. Define "differently."

Do they mean he's being pleasant?

[H2O Man]

50. Right.

I'll bet Dich does a mean Dave Chappelle.

I do not think they went into great detail (I was trying to listen and type at the same time -- very difficult to do at my age.) It will be worth watching the later Hardball to see exactly what they said about Dick.

[shance]

43. Thats interesting. Card is the one who told Bush about the second plane

hitting the WTC towers.

Some say that is when they "knew" someone in the White House was behind 9-11.

So Mr. Card takes all his advice from Mr. Cheney?

One might wonder if the headline should have been "Cheney knew" instead of "Bush knew".

[katty]

45. cheney was behind the scenes all the time

[fooj]

67. Card is also the one who came out in the middle of the night...

the evening of the election and announced Shrub the winner. I always found that rather telling. IMO, that was nothing but a power play...technically- no one really knew who had won at that point.

Peace.

[hang a left]

95. Card was also the one Gonzales gave the heads up to

12 hours before notifying WH to preserve evidence.

[Supersedeas]

137. exactly and hopefully Fitz was following that closely

[SpiralHawk]

69. Harriet Miers was right there with Bush and Card on 9/11

in Florida.

She prepared the "remarks" that bush made after he sat around the classroom for 1/2 an hour looking like he shit his pants, wasting time building an alibi and reading "My Pet Goat."

The whole BushCo Krewe was AWOL on 9/11 -- and did absolutely nothing while knowing full well that America was under attack.

Shame, shame, shame on them.

[bobbieinok]

78. hadn't seen that before.....Links????

[SpiralHawk]

85. I googled around a bit for links, but must leave for a meeting

I saw the Miers with Bush in Florida on 9/11 story here on DU sometime last week. Hope someone else will search and find the link.

It's definite -- she was there to help Cover his Cowardly Incompetent Butt on 9/11.

Miers, I feel, is the KEY to all the Skull & Bones in Bushs hugh closet.

And I think her nomination to SCOTUS is going to unwittingly unlock it for the public to see.

OK, I'm out of here...

[Zen Democrat]

120. Here's your link ... from the WH web site:

http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:uUt8xZR9_60J:www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20040910.html+Harriet+Miers+911&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Harriet Miers: Karrin, I was traveling with the President on September 11, 2001. So I started out in Florida. I was the President's Staff Secretary at that point in time, so I continued to do those duties. I was responsible for making sure the remarks he prepared to give to the Nation from Louisiana were properly prepared for him. It took some time, and the President saw me hurrying to give them to him. He said, "Good hustle!" He made me feel good that I was contributing. Typical. That was a remarkable day I will never forget. I will never forget how strong the President's response was to something so dreadful and so unexpected.

[SpiralHawk]

135. Thanks, Zen D

Miers is the key to the ugly trove of Skulls & Bones in George Bush's closet: AWOL from TANG, ignores clear warning of 9/11, reads My Pet Goat and dawdles while America is under attack, and approves a Notorious Male Prostitute for 200 visits to the Bush White House.

But I feel we are just scratching the SURFACE here.

If Gannon gets indicted in Plame White House Treason case, then the whole corrupt sExuAllY pErverTed Bush White House gets its pants pulled down...

[FreedomAngel82]

81. Maybe with this case

we can all learn the truth about that. This is why he's nominating Miers to the bench most definitley.

[katty]

44. So Rove won't take the fall for them

[Stephanie]

65. That's why Cheney was closing on his new house during Katrina

He's planning his residence in exile.

[FreedomAngel82]

72. Yes on Rove

I don't buy this "I forgot" crap. And I'm sure if he did have a bad memory he'd keep it in a journal type file or something like that so he couldn't forget. Can Cheney be indicted and would he turn in Bush too?

[flyarm]

123. I CAN NOT BELIEVE A GJ of 10 women + 2 men buying that one!

and according to cooper the grand jury did not need fitzgerald asking questions..they asked the tough questions...

there are 10 black women and 2 men (?) on this jury..one thing i know..women can spot a liar in a heart beat...and if she doesn't see it clearly..her intuition will win the day!

boy i wish i was one of those women!!!!!!!!!!!

..........or a fly on the wall!!!!!!!!


fly

[slaveplanet]

139. uhm- I think Fed GJ's have 18

or 21 people sitting in each Jury.

and quite likely there is more than 1

[flyarm]

142. well you are close..

and thank you i was going on the fact my sister sat on a state gj...of 12

but this is federal rules...thanks for the heads up...but i still would like to be a fly on that wall!! fly

Size of the grand jury
Federal grand juries are composed of between 16 and 23 individuals. Sixteen is the minimum and 23 is the maximum number that can constitute a federal grand jury. The size of the federal grand jury is set by Rule 6(a)(1) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.

Quorum of jurors needed to conduct business
The quorum is the minimum number of jurors that need to be present for a grand jury to be able to conduct business, such as considering whether charges should be brought against someone or investigating criminal activity. No statute or court rule defines the quorum for federal grand juries, but federal courts have inferred that at least 16 jurors must be present for a grand jury to convene and conduct business. The number 16 comes from Rule 6(a)(1) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, which says that a federal grand jury must consists of between 16 and 23 jurors. If less than 16 jurors appear, the grand jury cannot convene.

[Me.]

32. This Week

When I heard the topic, and saw the panel,( no Stephen Hayes saying no, no no(, I thought something is up. That combined with the "this week" business had me thinking the earthmovers have been brought in.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. The Office Of Special Plans...... boy did they have some special plans....

[leftchick]

11. Did they say OSP?

Finally?? :)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

19. Not that I heard. Just clarified the poster saying Cheney's Iraq Group.

I just mentioned their official name.

[H2O Man]

31. Right, thanks.

I get excited when I see Matthews starting to open up. A few days back, I wrote something about him and his strange relationship to the case. (It's on my blog, if not still found on DU; it was "German Shepherds and the Berlin Wall".)

Matthews could tell the country ther truth about Cheney. He could do it in a way that few others could.

[Walt Starr]

6. It's better than Leslie Blitzed pushing the end times

with Pat Robem$ome and Jerry Fartwell.

[H2O Man]

10. Did you see

all of it? Matthews is saying this is going to take on major significance very soon. I get the feeling Rove is being sacrificed. Bush1 wold surely have told his son it's the best choice right now. But I don't see Rove going quietly.

[Walt Starr]

13. My guess is as follows

Multiple indictments, including Cheney. bush will be named as an unindicted co-conspirator.

It'll take everybody by surprise. Nobody is prepared to find out their president enabled treason.

[jaysunb]

23. I'm with you on this one Walt

They will all be caught up in this.

[hvn_nbr_2]

46. I think you're right

I think the country is going to be absolutely stunned at the extent of the criminality, well except for DUers who already know much of what has gone on. The media shills seem to be starting to prepare the sheeple now.

I'm kind of expecting very serious charges against Cheney, probably resulting from the aborted Brewster-Jennings work. Maybe selling WMD materials to terrorist regimes. Maybe even, based on that, treason. Seriously, I'm not expecting but won't be surprised at a charge of treason. Even if he can't make it stick in the end, charging it would make quick presidential pardons politically impossible.

[FreedomAngel82]

83. Most definitley

I'm so excited. :popcorn:

[goclark]

113. I agree, if they let Tweety say all this, something big is in the wind

Tweety always sings their song on important issues like this one.

It seems to me that he has been given permission by someone to put the nail in the coffin and he did it in this segment.

No major reporter, that I know of, has laid it on the line like this --they were singing the Frog March today!!!!!

They were talking like a room full of Democrats.

[AX10]

84. If you are right Walt, and this is a BIG "IF" (regarding Bush)...

then the entire political system will be turned on it's head. Imagine, the leader of the most powerful nation in the modern progressed world indicted for TREASON. This will be absolutely HUGE!

Of course, then the Democrats can take back Congress in big numbers too!

:popcorn:

[goclark]

115. I am totally prepared for multiple indictments

and Bush being INDICTED:toast: :bounce: or NAMED AS AN UNINDICTED CO - conspirator.:toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce:

My popcorn is ready, drinks are on ice and I am delighted to devote my full attention to the FROG MARCH!

Let the Party begin!

:toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[lyonn]

9. thanks for the heads up

Only saw the last few minutes but they certainly looked and spoke grimly! He he he! Are the bad boys (rove-cheney, etc.) on their way out?

[MoonRiver]

12. Watching! I'm amazed about what is being OPENLY stated!

:wow:

[mattclearing]

16. Cube rat, please help!

Are they implicating Bush/Cheney? Linking the case for war to Plame?

[H2O Man]

18. Matthews strongly

connected the lead-up to war with the Niger lie. Strongly. He did the single best job of that, that I have seen on tv. Then he told how Wilson blew that lie out of the water. From there, of course, the White House response to Wilson.

[mattclearing]

20. That's excellent.

Hopefully Gregory will continue to pursue this now that he's off the Today Show fill-in duty.

If this is where NBC is going with the coverage, this may be better covered than I ever imagined.

[MoonRiver]

24. See #18.

Nothing was being whitewashed. They're even talking about Cheney being involved.

[Cha]

98. That they're actually talking

about it out on m$m is flabbergasting me, too!

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. Ahhhh! NOW it's the Dobson/Specter/KKKRove fight!

:bounce:

[H2O Man]

17. Matthews to Dave Gregory:

"I'd like to have you back, because I think this case is getting hotter and hotter." Matthews knows.

[jaysunb]

27. Of course he ( Matthews) knows....

he's part of it.

Rove told him Wilsons wife was fair game. Fitz knows this !

[FreedomAngel82]

89. Yep

And in 2004 Matthews visited Boehmian Grove so he already knows this crap. Watch Matthews spill the beans so he can become popular with this case since Bush's poll numbers suck (37% I heard on Stephanie Miller).

[bklyncowgirl]

104. To give him credit

Tweety's the one who told Wilson that Rove had declared Valerie fair game. This was Wilson's heads up.

[blm]

48. Matthews HAS known for two years already. He knew all last year and chose

not to discuss it in front of a voting public.

[UTUSN]

112. As Usual, Most Prescient, blm n/t

[blm]

136. Heh...noone nails Matthews tougher than you, UTUSN.

Nods.

[Vinca]

21. I'm going nuts. The dish has been off and on all day because of

lousy weather in the northeast. I need my Hardball fix! Grrrrr.

[robertpaulsen]

26. Didn't Wilson predict this in his book?

I seem to recall a passage where Wilson refers to his "frogmarch" comment by explaining that Rove, if pressured by Fitzgerald, would crack and turn on the VP's office to protect his boss. Something about Rove being the "weak link" in that den of snakes.

[H2O Man]

33. I don't recall

Wilson saying that. I do remember that we talked about this last June-July. Rove is clearly the fellow a good investigator/prosecutor would target, because of his personality type. I believe I refered to him fondly as the Pilsbury Dough Boy.

[pacalo]

80. This visual reflects how I imagine his true personality...

[zippy890]

103. HAHA Thats the real Rove!

too funny!

[savemefromdumbya]

39. Yes I just re-read the last 3 chapters of Wilson's book

it's very revealing - FROGMARCH!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

91. I agree with him

I think Cheney would turn Bush in if Rove turns Cheney in to protect Bush. I just think either way someone will crack and turn Bush in to protect themselves. Looks like Fitzgerald is getting to Rove because of his last visit and his lawyers response and not chatting.

[Dinger]

106. Bet The Sales Of His Book Are Up

Any info on that I wonder?

[nomatrix]

116. I found Joe Wilson's book at Book Warehouse

hardback for $8.00.

Christmas shopping list

The Hunting of the President (the 10 yr. campaign to destroy Bill and Hillary Clinton)
Big Lies - both by Joe Conason. Gene Lyons co-wrote Hunting.

American Dynasty-Aristocracy, Fortune, and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush - Kevin Phillip

The Book on Bush How George W. Misleads America - Eric Alterman and Mark Green

All These $4.99 buy 4 get the 5th free.
Book Warehouse are usually at outlet malls (Reading China & Glass, Bass, etc)

[CGrantt57]

28. Just chillin'...

And waitin' for the indictments to flow like bitter gall...

I hope these bastards choke on them.

Who's up for a little Schadenfreude Tango?

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Kingofalldems]

29. What will Bob Woodward say?

He claims it is all much ado about nothing. Can't wait to see Mr. Smug eat his words.

[MADem]

38. He has to say that, in order to retain his access

He has written PLAN OF ATTACK, and BUSH AT WAR, two books about the monkeyking. In order to complete his LORD OF THE DINGDONGS trilogy, he cannot alienate his source...yet, anyway.

Bob Woodward, IMO, is all about Bob Woodward. I don't see his loyalty at this stage in his life as extending beyond his own bank balance and the man in the mirror that he loves so well.

If he writes a third book, I have a sneaking suspicion it will not be a puff piece, and will probably outsell the other two by a factor of ten, especially if he can retain his closeness while all this shit is hitting the fan.

[holboz]

63. Lord of the Dingdongs triology - I LOVE IT! eom

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl:
:rofl:

[SpiralHawk]

73. Lord of the Dingdongs - Nominated for Academy Award

in the fiction category, of course...

[FreedomAngel82]

93. Oh of course

Bush is widely unpopular and when this all comes out he could make tons of money.

[spanone]

30. That was certainly heartening to watch.

:bounce:

[lancdem]

35. Wonderful!

That's exactly what Fitz was banking on - getting the guilty parties to start turning on each other.

[populistdriven]

37. Chris Said on Friday that he was a HUGE fan of Ayn Rand

He's a whore to the right.

http://www.aynrand.org/

[MoonRiver]

49. Agreed. But I don't think he can resist the biggest story in years.

You had to see to believe.

[Me.]

42. Tom Oliphant Deserves A Smack In The Head

for saying he doesn't believe we should politicize bad behavior.

[H2O Man]

51. I found it amazing

that he is able to characterize the indictments before they arrive!

[MoonRiver]

52. DIdn't he say he doesn't understand why his fellow liberals

are not questioning what the special prosecutor is doing? I wasn't listening closely, but that seemed to be the gist of his comment.
:grr:

[Pacifist Patriot]

71. Did he say it with a straight face?

:rofl:

[tinrobot]

53. Methinks Cheney's going to be leaving

Perhaps he'll conjure up a health excuse or get indicted and resign... but he will not be in office come 2008.

[katty]

57. cheney's too sick-- needs to retire and out....

[AllyCat]

77. A friend deep into the psychic thing says her psychic went to a

meeting of psychics. They all agreed that something would happen to Darth Cheney and that he would not be in office in '08. They couldn't tell what the cause was, but didn't think it was his health. This was long before the indictments/grand jury (so the story goes). Wonder if this is it.

Don't really believe in that stuff myself, but it was interesting to then discuss who would be VEEP.

[FreedomAngel82]

96. I think this is it

I remember last year a week or so before the last election I had a huge feeling something REALLY BIG will bring Bush down and then earlier this month I got a very clear and positive message that Bush will go down and will not be in office long.

[bklyncowgirl]

105. Don't keep us in suspence--who did the psychics think would get it? nt

[AllyCat]

132. You mean who would be Veep?

Well, that was us NON-psychics talking about the psychic meeting. They didn't question who would be veep. They just felt, en masse, that Cheney would go down long before the '08 close of this horrid Administration.

[zbdent]

54. bzzz "What is Jeff Gannon's favorite type of sex, Alex?"

"I'll take Turdgate for $600, Alex . . ."

[pearl]

56. Oliphant means well

but remember he just woke up from a near fatal
brain hemorrhage. He just needs to catch up on his
research. He doesn't know his facts yet.

[Stephanie]

66. He's not good enough

Time to rotate in the new generation of pundits. Let's have Josh Marshall and Randi Rhodes for our side. Mark Shields and Oliphant can take a break.

[Pithy Cherub]

55. The Washington establishment has to be in a state of frenzy now.

The DSM, Niger forgeries, Plamegate, and the all important cover-up are being tied in a narrative and exposed by a no-nonsense prosecutor and NOT a journalist. That is actually worse for Bushco, because the Prosecutor was appointed by their own team.

Bushco could have smeared and cut-off access for a non-cooperative journalist. Now, when it's safe, journalists want to seem like they have the inside track. Libby & Rove have had the masks removed - but not by a journalist. This is important because of where will the trial(s) be held. Fitzgerald would want to stay right where he is in a city full of many African Americans and right next to SCOTUS. SCOTUS used their chits to save Bushco once - Roberts isn't about to get his brand spanking new Chief Justiceship tainted like Rehnquist.

Rove will bring it all down because he has to and Libby et al will get the tougher charges because Rove sung first. Cheney is watching HISTORY carry his name forward just like Spiro T. Agnew! Just a thing of beauty!

:popcorn:

[katty]

59. like Watergate again "a very special episode",,,,next,,,,on faux

[leftchick]

60. Repeating Now!!!!

:popcorn:

[sepia_steel]

62. this is encouraging stuff!! nt

[sepia_steel]

64. Insteresting about growing distance between * and Cheney eom

[goclark]

76. I noticed the separation on TV the other day

Bush was at the podium and Cheney walked in behind him and stood
on the steps.

Clear body language said,"NOT FRIENDS!"

When was the last time you saw them standing and talking together?

[FreedomAngel82]

99. Very interesting

This will be so good and shocking to the whole country. :popcorn:

I think if Cheney is threatned he will turn on Bush. These people turn on each other. I can't wait till Fitzgerald is done!! Usually when you see Cheney he's right there with Bush. So this is very telling on Bush's behalf.

[pacalo]

101. He had an impatient look on his face -- with a smirk -- when he turned

around to look down at Cheney's crutches.

[kohodog]

68. Wow, that's the best MSM discussion I've seen to date

From Tweety no less. Also heard one of them talk about the "Bush Family Politics," in a context I' haven't heard in the media. Made it seem like a cabal, and one in which Cheney is on the outside.

Libby is on the inside, though and I wonder if he can survive. Cheney may be the first of the remaining neocons to go. Feith, Wolfowitz and perle are already gone, and i have always felt that pappy and GW are more about the money and corporate control than the PNAC agenda, though that has been useful to their goals.

So who will be left standing? Any guesses?

[JohnnyBoots]

79. Wolfowitz is still head of the World Bank isn't he? n/t

[kohodog]

110. Yes, but out of the inner circle imho. n/t

[Me.]

90. Think Asian Money For Poppy & The Boys

I bet there is a story there.

[JNelson6563]

97. Feinman said "Bush family"

and clarified "Bush political family" several times. I thought "almost there, jus tone word off..." Shoulda said "Bush Crime Family".

Just like the mob someone will break and the others will pay. haha

Julie

[mountainvue]

107. I noticed that too. He repeated it several times

for emphasis.

[FreedomAngel82]

70. So we're going to have a blood bath!

This is going to be so good. I wonder if Rove will out Cheney and then Cheney Bush and they all go down. LOL. That would be nice.

[Quixote1818]

121. Perhaps Rove will out Cheney and Cheney will out Bush and blame it

on Rove? Think about it, no one wants to be the one who tattled on the President but if they muddy the waters enough Rove and Cheney can get their "get out of Jail free card" Bush will go down and no one will know who squealed!

If that happens everyone on DU should meet for a huge party!

:party: :party: :toast: :silly: :party: :hippie: :dunce: :beer: :hi: :beer: :headbang: :woohoo: :applause: :party: :toast: :party: :silly: :silly: :dunce: :beer: :loveya: :hug: :grouphug: :pals: :yourock: :applause: :woohoo: :party: :party: :toast: :beer:

86. Matthews always said "chief of staff", instead of

saying Libby Lewis's name. Maybe it was because everyone is focused on Rove. The whole thing is an off-shoot of lying about the war in the first place, although Fitzgerald is investigating only who leaked Plame name. However he has to look at motive.

If Rove is a little fish compared to Libby, then Fitzgerald will be more intent on getting Libby, and it won't matter if they manage to sacrifice Rove.

Watching those clips, it seems Bush really relishes the roles he plays, like he gets a high from it.

[AnnInLa]

87. New RW Talking Point: "Criminalizing Politics"

Most of the liberal blogs are discussing this new talking point by the pukes: Why is Fitz trying to criminalize politics? One blogger pointed out that this was the excuse they tried during Iran Contra scandal, and they have trotted it out again. Wasn't it Oliphant tonight on Hardball who made that statement, and didn't Tweety somewhat agree with him?

Anyhoo, expect to see a lot of RW bloggers and pundits ask seriously, with straight faces, "Why is everyone tring to criminalize politics lately? Come one guys, it's just politics!"

Right.

[skipos]

100. Tweety?

What is the origin of that nickname?

[maryallen]

108. His yellow hair is like that of cartoon character, Tweety Bird.

How about that remark about the "B-Team" running things when Rove, Cheney, and Libby are gone. All agreed.

B-TEAM --- gotta love it.

Dubya's about the X, Y, or Z team.

[kohodog]

109. Yeah, W is like the coach's kid making the A team...

And playing quarterback.

[maine_raptor]

111. Oh, that train can be heard comin' down the track, nooo problem

Funny thing is, it de-rails when you ask the speaker:

"So it's kinda like making a federal case out of a blowjob, eh?"

Do it with a smile and a knowing nod, and then watch the wheels come off that argument real fast.

[fearnobush]

126. Most politics is criminal anyway. It's hard to decriminalize criminals

At least from our perspective, but to the sheeple and the cowed and faith blind republicans and fundies, this MSM line works just fine.

[marions ghost]

114. Kick

This is Hugh 111!!! :popcorn:

Tweety as Purveyor of Truth...WTF?

[grytpype]

117. Cheney pushed harder for the war than anyone.

The whole war is really Cheney's fault. Bob Woodward says in The Commanders (I have heard) that you can't really pin down when Bush decided there would be a war, what happened is Cheney started talking and acting like the decision had been made. Bush was kind of a nonentity.

And that is where the Plame Affair really leads... to the whole rotten web of lies the administration spun to sell the war.

They were betting on two things: 1) that there would be WMD found in Iraq sufficient to justify the war, and 2) victory would be easy. They were wrong both times. If they were right, no one would care we were lied into war. But now it matters.

[Nimrod2005]

140. Who decides that the war was in fact illegal?

Is it congress? the world courts? An American judge? I love pushing this idea forward, that this war is illegal, and that W. committed an illegal act, and that he should be held responsible for all the deaths and destruction.

In my mind, this is a slam dunk case, but who brings it? who can?

[AuntiBush]

119. Seen it!

Called family and friends, telling them to quick tune-in! Then, reminded them w/the ole' line, "See, I told you..." "I already knew this from DU & other creditable online bloggers!"

I can even call a lie right-on, now!

'Been a long-time 'coming, wishing I'd paid more attention sooner.

[H2O Man]

138. Two years ago

I told an associate that this scandal would knee-cap this administration. He is a moderate democrat, who married a raging republican. For over a year, he would mock me, saying, "But you are the only person who cares," and "If this were anything other than your imagination, I think it would be on the news."

I saw him late last week. He isn't making jokes any more. Moderate democrats & republicans seem to realize that, as bad as having things like scandals/impeachments is for the country -- and it is not an easy process -- that allowing this administration to further corrupt and damage the system is by far worse.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

122. Advice for Rove....stay off small planes.

[Cha]

125. rove likes to

sit on runways.

[flyarm]

127. same advice for fitzgerald!! ..seriously!! n/t

[Shine]

128. Damn, I missed the show, but am stoked the news is out there

FINALLY!! America is in for a BIG shock, indeed....

:popcorn:

[Beausoir]

130. Fineman..the original Media Whore of the Year has flipped!

I simply can't believe it.

Fineman..who drooled over The Retarded Monkey In Chief's "package" after his staged photo-op carrier landing....has finally seen the light.

I never thought I'd see the day.

[H2O Man]

141. People in the media elite

have been told that Rove, Libby, and Ari Fleischer are all definitely going to be indicted. The questions now revolve around if others will be nailed, and how many indictments there will be.

[texpatriot2004]

133. Did you catch the part about the "2nd string" would be in charge

"and they have never been in charge" if the indictments come.

Also, there was a line in there about Rove and Cheney not running things the last few weeks...leaving that lying lunatic * on his own.

[spuddonna]

134. Wow...

For Tweety to be breaking this in the MSM, he must have some inside knowledge that indictments are a comin'!

I haven't seen it portrayed anywhere else quite as succinctly, or with as much emphasis on the fact that the leak happened because Wilson was proving to the American public that the Iraq war was illegal and baseless... Great clips!