Jesus was an anti-clerical bigot who hated Jews.

[Liberator_Rev]

Jesus was an anti-clerical bigot who hated Jews.

Jesus of Nazareth was EVEN WORSE than Liberator_Rev -- if that can be imagined -- in the way he constantly and mercilessly attacked his clerical Jewish rivals, proclaiming in public such nasty things as, for example,
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. It is these you ought to have practiced without neglecting the others. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel! "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup, so that the outside also may become clean. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which on the outside look beautiful, but inside they are full of the bones of the dead and of all kinds of filth. So you also on the outside look righteous to others, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous, and you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' Thus you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your ancestors. You snakes, you brood of vipers! How can you escape being sentenced to hell? Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come upon this generation. { Matthew, Ch. 23 }

and for a whole catalogue of faults, i.e. :

for insincere prayers and / or superficial virtue :

for " http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:15:8 " Matt. 15:8 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:23:23 " Matt. 23:23
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:7:6 " Mark 7:6
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:42 " Luke 11:42 ;

for requesting miraculous signs and then not accepting them :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew: 12:38 " Matt.12:38 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew: 16:4 " Matt. 16:4 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark: 8:11 " Mark 8:11
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:29 " Luke 11:29 ;

for doing good deeds just to impress others :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew: 23:5 " Matt. 23:5 &
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew: 23:29 " Matt. 23:29
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke: 11:47 " Luke 11:47 ;

for seeking titles and places of honor :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:23:7 " Matt. 23:7
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:12:39 " Mark 12:39
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:43 " Luke 11:43 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:20:46 " Luke 20:46 ;

for ignoring weightier aspects of God's law :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:42 " Luke 11:42 ;

for being liars : 
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:8:56 " John 8:56

for being blind leaders and/or evil influences on those
who looked to them for leadership :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew: 15:14 " Matt.15:14 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:16:6 " Matt. 16:6 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:16:11 " Matt. 16:11 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew: 23:16 " Matt. 23:16
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke: 6:39 " Luke 6:39
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:9:41 " John 9:41

for being hypocrites, whitened sepulchers, and/or a brood of vipers :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:12:34 " Matt. 12:34 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:23:32 " Matt. 23:32 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:: 13:15 " Luke 13:15 ;

for placing burdens, which they are not willing to carry themselves, upon others :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:23:3 " Matt. 23:3 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:46 " Luke 11:46 ;

for preventing others from pursuing holiness :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:23:13-15 " Matt. 23:13-15 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:52 " Luke 11:52 ;

for devouring the possessions of unsuspecting widows :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:12:40 " Matt. 12:40 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:20:47 " Luke 20:47 ;

for sinning against the Holy Spirit :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:12:32 " Matt. 12:32 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:3:39 " Mark 3:39
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:12:10 " Luke 12:10 ;

for promoting religious traditions counter to God's purposes :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:15:5 " Matt. 15:5 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:23:16 " Matt. 23:16 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:7:8 " Mark 7:8

for being false to the heritage of Abraham,
whom they professed to honor : 
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:8:33 " John 8:33

for questioning Jesus' authority to preach
without the approval of their High Priest :  
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:21:23 " Matt. 21:23 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:11:27 " Mark 11:27
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:20:2 " Luke 20:2 ;

for not recognizing John the Baptist and/or Jesus
as authentic prophets :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:21:33-46 " Matt. 21:33-46 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:12:1-12 " Mark 12:1-12
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:19:39 " Luke 19:39 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:20:9-19 " Luke 20:9-19 ;

for condemning the innocent (including Jesus)  :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:23:34 " Matt. 23:34 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:12:7 " Matt. 12:7
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:13:9 " Mark 13:9
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:49 " Luke 11:49 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:13:34 " Luke 13:34 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:21:12 " Luke 21:12 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:7:22 " John 7:22 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:18:23 " John 18:23

for slandering Jesus' or his disciples' words or
actions as " blasphemous " , " illegal " , or " contrary to sacred
traditions "  :
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:2:8 " Mark 2:8 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:2:24 " Mark 2:24 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:3:2 " Mark 3:2 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:3:6 " Mark 3:6 &
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Mark:3:22 " Mark 3:22
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:9:4 " Matt. 9:4 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:10:25 " Matt. 10:25 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:12:2 " Matt. 12:2 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:12:14 " Matt. 12:14 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:12:24 " Matt. 12:24 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:15:2 " Matt. 15:2 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Matthew:15:12 " Matt. 15:12 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:5:22 " Luke 5:22 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:6:1 " Luke 6:1 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:6:9 " Luke 6:9 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:7:33 " Luke 7:33 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:11:15 " Luke 11:15 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:13:14 " Luke 13:14 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?Luke:14:3 " Luke 14:3 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:7:24 " John 7:24 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:8:53 " John 8:53 ;
" http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?John:10:31 " John 10:31

[wyldwolf]

1. Santa Claus was anti-jewish youth!

Never gave them a damn wooden horse.

Yep! Jesus and Santa - part of the same team!

[qb]

2. Isn't this like saying anyone who criticizes Jerry Falwell

is an anti-clerical bigot who hates Christians?

[spindoctor]

4. lol@ftbc

You beat me to it. ;)

[Liberator_Rev]

17. You've got that right, ftbc.

Yet some Catholics on this board do that all the time when it comes to me criticizing the Pope, the Vatican, or Bishops.

[Blue_Chill]

32. One must examine the source Rev.

and your bias is well known. I'm sorry but your own actions have cast you as a anti-catholic. It's a little late to say your posts are unfairly judged.

[youngred]

34. Maybe if you didn't ONLY criticize the pope

and catholic clergy or bring it up in EVERY SINGLE CATHOLIC THREAD they wouldn't react so negatively to you. When you first came to this site I welcomed you as a strong liberal voice for christians and I read and passed on your site. Its your continued anti-catholic (and it stretches beyond the realm of constructive criticism with you) stances and writings and your arrogance on the issue that has made me come to expect negativity from you at every turn. I'm not alone in this view. It isn't even the Catholics that notice this ray, Many Atheists, Agnostics and Protestants have noticed it too.

[Liberator_Rev]

53. If what I say is WRONG, then PROVE IT !

Why complaining that I accuse the Catholic hierarchy of wrong-doing OFTEN?
If what I say is WRONG, then Catholics have MANY times to PROVE ME WRONG.

You would WELCOME such opportunities, IF YOU WERE RIGHT.

Instead, you whine that a billion member multi-billion dollar organization, with plenty of representatives right here at DU, are being unfairly treated by this one lonely "Liberal Like Christ", with arguments too strong for any Catholics here to answer!

[Darranar]

56. I'm not a Catholic...

so don't think that it's only Catholics.

A few very simple things:

1. Catholics aren't the only ones plagued by fundamentalists.

2. If you're looking for strong social liberalism in the fundamentalists of any religion, YOU AREN'T GOING TO FIND IT, whether it's Islam, Judiasm, Roman Catholicism, or whatever.

3. Your criticism doesn't bother me; it's the singling out that does.

[youngred]

63. Yes, like we said ray, you're right

It's a vast conspiracy going all the way up to the pope to silence you and your website because we're afraid of your shining light of truth. The Catholic Defense League is here to defend the Pope with our Conservaitve lives. But no! Drat! Our one dimensional characters (like any Chick Demon) cannot fight at all the powerful truth contained in Rev Ray's message. :eyes:

Ray your arguments and links are so silly and patently bigoted that its useless to argue anymore, its like reading a chick tract most of the time. I wouldn't say the Catholic hierarchy is doing wrong often, they don't always make the right choice but neither does any organization (except liberals like christ I'm sure). In fact most of the time I disagree with them and am disgusted by their actions. The point however of all of this is that it has ntohing to do with the church...it has to do with you. You want to know why we react the way we do? Because you pull shit like this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=504993
A thread about the Catholic Church. You waltz in and make a post having ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the topic at hand to another bombastic rant about Catholicism at your website (The fact that you have a page devoted to "The Pope vs. Christ" should be enough to show anyone your true feelings). You are disruptive, and your one track mind lets you do little other than Bash Catholics here. The only thing I ever see you do is attack Catholics and the occasional atheist.

Your "arguments" are always answered (or else you wouldn't complain about being attacked all the time), but only occasionally do you answer those who respond to your tripe. You reject or ignore what you can't argue against or just post a link to your site, you must be too busy to deign to give an actual tailored argument.

[blondeatlast]

77. Your message is decidedly un-Christ-like. Hate and intolerance

are not in His philosophy.

I'd put you on ignore (as I have your endless e-mails to me) but you're too easy.

[Darranar]

49. And some non-Catholics, like me...

strongly dislike you singling them out before all others as well.

All religions have crazies within their ranks. Why single out one before all others?

[Liberator_Rev]

57. because Catholics call their "crazies" "Vicars of Christ"

Yes, Darranar,
"All religions have crazies within their ranks. Why single out one before all others?"

But other religions haven't claimed that the many crazies that were promoted to the head of their organization were the "Vicars of Christ".
See http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/PopesvsChrist to see how insanely crazy and/or immoral many of these people were!

[Darranar]

60. Bush* is no Roman Catholic...

Cheney is no Roman Catholic;

Wolfowitz is no Roman Catholic;

Rumsfeld is no Roman Catholic;

Pearl is no Roman Catholic.

On the other hand:

John F. Kennedy was a Roman Catholic;

Dennis Kucinich is a Roman Catholic;

Wesley Clark is a Roman Catholic.

Do you want me to find religious leaders from other faiths who were ignorant bigots?

[youngred]

66. that's so weak

The very nature of religion claims that it holds the one true path. Ergo of course they'd choose a title like that. That's not at all uncommon in religions...why you pick the catholic term alone shows some bit of your psyche

[spindoctor]

3. I think he was talking about Jerry Falwell

But considering the fact that Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi, I am not convinced about the Jew hating part.

I'm new to this place, so perhaps I shouldn't be asking this, but aren't there more suitable forums for silly little posts like this?

[LeahMira]

15. Indeed.

I'm new to this place, so perhaps I shouldn't be asking this, but aren't there more suitable forums for silly little posts like this?


The Freepers have a whole section of their site devoted to religion. I just took a look out of curiosity and all I can say is that it explains a lot. Exorcisms, voodoo, evil spirits, prophecies... unbelieveable!

[Bandit]

5. Replace Pharisees with Republicans and it's right spot on

And these people today call themselves Christians.

[fla nocount]

6. Naw, he didn't hate Jews. Just Zionists.

I never bought into the historical figure Jesus being a homeless itinerent either. He swung to much ass and ran off at the mouth too much.

Just read that rant though...and no four letter words. Wish I could do that.

[On the Road]

7. Jesus Was Engaging in Some anti-Bush Rhetoric

or something like it. The people he was castigating were enriching themselves and betraying their fellow citizens by allying themselves with Rome and supporting its occupation of Israel. Pretty close to the sentiments a lot of us feel, and for similar reasons.

Jesus' brother, and the first head of the movement after his death, was a priest in the Temple, but a leading opposition figure. Although I think he was serious when he compared the Samaritans to dogs.

[lumpy]

8. The peace loving Jews stood by and let Jesus

be murdered to preserve the absolute power and greed of the Pharasees who had the man of peace strung up on the cross.

[qb]

10. Oh, sure. Let's just fire up the Holocaust again

and take care of those Christ-killers.

[lumpy]

20. Just the truth, Bunky

Just the truth. What does this have to do with the Holocaust?

[aquart]

65. And here I thought he brought not peace but a sword.

Man of peace, please.

[DemBones DemBones]

9. Being a pain in the ass does not equal being Christ-like, however.

Neither does being despised nor even persecuted mean that one is Christ-like.

Unfortunately, many small-minded and self-righteous people like to fancy themselves as prophets not without honor except in their own land.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jack The Tab]

12. Jesus hated Jews? The anti-clerical part I can buy...

After reading the book "Farwell to God" by Charles Templeton, Jesus often spoke with a clear "Jew only" bias. Not all the time, but there are some very pointed comments attributed to Jesus that were meant as Jewish only. I don't know that I'm making my point very clearly because I don't have the book here.

Lib-Rev, have you ever seen this book? Great book, I read it twice.

[Liberator_Rev]

19. Check out "The Mythmaker" by Hyram Maccoby

This Jewish Scholar argues that the anti-Jewish stuff came not from Jesus himself, but form his self-appointed "apostle to the Gentiles", Paul of Tarsus, who not only wrote most of the books of the New Testament himself, but had a great deal of influence over the writing of the Gospels as well. That's a fantastic book. It also shows why much of what is wrong with "Christianity" came from Paul, rather that Jesus.

[Jack The Tab]

23. Rev - your site has educated me more about Paul than any book...

Always loved your site.

Have you ever seen the book I mentioned? It's a very interesting read.

[Liberator_Rev]

30. Thanks, Jack. You're not the only one.

http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org has already had over a million hits this year, after falling just short of 7 digits last year, and this is what a number of visitors have said about their experience:
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/testimonials.htm

We also have almost 90 web sites now linking to "Liberals Like Christ".

[blondeatlast]

42. All I got out of your site was nausea and a headache from the

hatred.

[Darranar]

68. Uh...

You should know that what your site has to say about religion being the root of the American government disgusts me. The rest, however, is a breath of fresh air. That's one thing I can congratulate you for.

[blondeatlast]

76. But DU doesn't. Hmmmmmmmm . . .

[Q]

13. Sorry...I never mix politics with religion...

...and obviously...neither should you.

[mistertrickster]

14. Jesus saw himself as a Jew and part of the Jewish tradition

He didn't "hate Jews" because he was critical anymore than Jerimiah.

Didn't he say that he came not to repudiate prophecy, but to fufill it? Doesn't sound hateful to Jewish traditions to me . . .

This post is awful close to flame-bait, IMHO.

[Liberator_Rev]

90. The original post is tongue in cheek, Mr.

The point is to show how WRONG it is to accuse ME of being Satan incarnated, for my criticism of the CATHOLIC hierarchy unless you want to do the SAME where Jesus is concerned, for being even harsher than I am, on the JEWISH hierarchy.

[youngred]

92. If you're going to throw ad hominem...That's a Strawman

No one said you were Satan incarnated

[outinforce]

16. Oh, Rev. Dubuque

Or is it Ray? Brother Ray? The Rev Ray?

I'nm just curious.

What brought on this latest screed of yours?

And, though you did not ask for any advice, let me just let you in on a little secret:

You can get coffee that is de-caffinated. It tastes pretty good, too.

[Bridget Burke]

18. According to you---

We need to hate the Catholics--& now the Jews.

Who made you the one true prophet? (Besides those voices in your head...)

[Liberator_Rev]

21. The point of this thread is to show how foolish such a claim would be . ..

and yet Conservative Catholics (who may be Liberals IN OTHER RESPECTS) here at DU keep on hurling the same type charges at me. They themselves may get annoyed whenever they are accused by Conservatives of being un-America or un-patriotic because they say nasty things about the current administration in Washington, but that doesn't prevent them from doing the same thing to me, when I point out the role the Catholic Church played in the slaughter of millions of native Americans in my newest web page: http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/AmericanHolocaust .

[outinforce]

24. Poor Rev. Dubuque

Let's all have a pity party for Rev. Dubuque, shall we?

The poor dear is obviously upset that some people "hurl charges" at him.

Because of my position regarding abortion, I have had some pretty mean things hurled at me, and do you know what?

I either ignore the charges, refute the charges, or admit that I was wrong.

What I try NOT to do is Whine.

One wonders why it is that Rev. Dubuque didn't seem quite to work out as a pastor to a Methodist Congregation.

My guess is that he did not respond well to people suggesting that he just might want to be a tad more introspective and a little less rigid in his views.

But that's just a guess.

Pity party to be held here on this thread.

No need to RSVP. Just show up.

[Terwilliger]

28. you do play the wounded animal a bit much

if you have a point of view, deliver it straight-out without any flower or caramel

[youngred]

37. The Martyr!

THe grand catholic conspiracy to kill Rev Ray. We're all secret phony liberals for our catholic guilty conscience, but really we're conservatives. must crush ray!

Come on, really!

[blondeatlast]

43. Dude, a revelation: the Catholics had help!

Like from the Protestants, for instance . . .

Ya know, the KKK hated Catholics too . . .

[ShaneGR]

22. Jesus ate kittens for the last meal

For the love of god! What is this thread?

[outinforce]

25. The Point of This Thread?

Rev. Dubuque, I think, is throwing a pity party for himself.

[Bridget Burke]

26. Hey, Rev, you're a rank amateur at this hate-mongering...

Follow this link & see how a real pro does it:

http://www.ianpaisley.org/

[Selwynn]

29. I've got a Heart on for Jesus!

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0201/valentine.html

[JohnKleeb]

31. *Yells in best Irish accent* Paisley that bastard

As many of you may know, I am like a Northern Ireland nationalist, I think it should be with Ireland not Britain. Reverend Ian Paisley has been in this anti Catholicism business for the longest time. He even spoke at Bob Jones University in the 60's. Rev I know the Catholic Church doesnt have the best history, my problem is that you only focus on the church's bad yet I bet there are worse things than that in other demonations. You still havent made me go Methodist yet and if I did leave the Catholic Church, I would go Uniterian likely. I disagree with the pope on many but I respect him on some too.

[SiobhanClancy]

41. Paisley not only spoke at Bob Jones..

he holds an honorary degree from them...and if you recall,* spoke there during his campaign in 2000,which really tells you everything you need to know about him.

[JohnKleeb]

51. Thank you Clancy

Thats major cause for :puke:.

[Liberator_Rev]

35. "Liberals Like Christ" is about comforting the OPPRESSED and

oppressing the comfortable OPPRESSORS. How many innocent victims have I tortured and killed? I've adopted 5 children, 3 of them severely handicapped. The 60 minutes team chose to feature our family in a special designed to foster the adoption of such children throughout the nation.
Why are you mad at me, instead of being mad at those who have AN ESTABLISHED HISTORY OF SAVAGERY, like this :
The priest-historian, Bartolome de Las Casas reported on many incident he himself witnessed:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties, the more cruel the better, with which to spill human blood.

They built a long gibbet, (a beam between two tall stumps) low enough for the toes to touch the ground and prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles. When the Indians were thus still alive and hanging, the Spaniards tested their strength and their blades against them, ripping chests open with one blow and exposing entrails, and there were those who did worse. Then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive." {p. 72}
You could never in a million years imagine what these agents of "Christendom" did in the name of God and their church. So don't assume to know unless you read it for yourself at an authentic source, like
http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/AmericanHolocaust.

[JohnKleeb]

36. You know the British who were Protestants mostly

werent exactly kind to the Indians either. The mainly Catholic French were way better than the British Protestants. Both Protestant and Catholics in the New World alike were cruel to Natives. I admit those Spanish Catholic Consquisators were wrong, and bastards.

[Darranar]

52. That's very true...

And Protestants stood by and watched as the Jews were slaughtered in the 30s and 40s too...

[JohnKleeb]

54. I am not Jewish as you know Dar

but I do know the nazis discriminated against Catholic peoples as well not because they were Catholic but because they regarded Slavic people inferior. It was protestants in Salem, Ma. I agree my faith hasnt been perfect but with men like Maxamillian Kolbe who gave his life for another, there is good.

[Darranar]

58. Roman Catholicism most certainly has produced its share of great men...

JFK, Al Smith, and Dennis Kucinich immediately come to mind...

[JohnKleeb]

62. of course

Dont forget about RFK(Catholic) as for Judaism, Louis Brandeis, Paul Wellstone, Russ Feingold.

[Darranar]

69. RFK!

I can't believe I forgot him! He was a truly great guy. If he had been elected in 1968, the world, and the US, would be a better place.

When it comes to Judiasm, Albert Einstein deserves to be mentioned, IMO. Though his major accomplishments were in physics, he was a pacifist and much of what he said has true wisdom.

[blondeatlast]

38. Pity, pity, pity. Poor you, so persecuted. You can dish it out,

but you can't take it.

:nopity:

Your messages are single-minded bigotry; and if you can't stand the heat . . .

You better change 'em. They don't serve ice water down there, ya know.

This is one Protestant/Catholic turned UU who is damned glad you don't practice what you (literally) preach: hate. Or do you?

[patcox2]

75. Explain this, you self-righteous twit

In the spanish, and therefore catholic, colonies in the new world, the native populations not only still exit, they are the majority. Go to mexico, go to central america, the majority of the people in these countries are native american or mixed. The native americans were slaughtered wholesale or herded to reservations in the most desolate parts of their land, they remained and still are a major part of those countries.

The only country which succeeded in almost completely eliminating its native american population is the largely protestant US of A. We americans waged the most succesful genocide campaign in human history, completely displacing and removing the native population to concentration camps that still exist under the name "reservations."

All serious students of history recognize the slander known as the "great lie," the British slander about spanish so-called cruelty. You can come up with all the anecdotes about spanish cruelty you like, anecdotes prove nothing. The proof is in the end result, which is inescapable; the ex-spanish colonies have no "reservations," they are integrated societies with largely mixed native american populations. No genocide took place there. But here in the protestant USA, the native americans were effectively wiped out and completely removed from society, the few survivors forced to live under an apartheid system in concentration camps that make south africa's townships look good.

All your rantings cannot hide the end results of catholic colonization compared to protestant colonization. The catholics might have insisted on conversion, and acted cruelly to compel it in some instances, but the protestants didn't even offer that as an alternative, they just wanted the native americans dead. And made it happen.

[Liberator_Rev]

81. Why aren't YOU are the hate-monger, Bridget Burke ?

If I'm a hate-monger for criticising the Catholic hierarchy, then YOU must accuse Jesus of being a hate-mongerer for criticizing the Jewish hierarchy. See Original post.

And YOU are a hate-monger if you join with other DUers in criticizing Bush & Co.
All the Catholic ad hominem attacks prove to any objective observer that they have no case.

[youngred]

85. That is such a false argument Ray

You've got nothing on Jesus.

All the CATHOLIC Ad Hominems? Do you realize that more than half the people who you accuse of attacking you AREN'T CATHOLIC?

[Bridget Burke]

89. So, did you follow my link?

I was just referring you to Reverend Ian Paisley's website. Did you follow the link? Do you agree, disagree?

By the way, you should eschew phrases like "ad hominem". That's Latin--don't want to go sounding all Romish now, do you?

[Selwynn]

27. Remember, Jesus Saves... but

George T. Nelson withdraws! :D

[Blue_Chill]

33. Nice post "Rev"

1- it's a sin
2- you commited a sin in an attempt to save your own ass from the anti-catholic label your earned
3- You are proud of what you have done.

My advice to you: repent.

[blondeatlast]

39. May I just say: Amen.

[Liberator_Rev]

44. Wow, Blue_Chil. I committed a sin.

You can't SEE the magnitude of the crimes of genocide against the Native Americans, http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/AmericanHolocaust ,
because they were committed with the blessing of your church.
You can't SEE the magnitude of the crimes of genocide against the Jews of Europe, http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/RCscandal ,
because they were committed with the blessing of your church.

You can't SEE the magnitude of the crimes of torture and murder against thousands upon thousands of Christians whom your popes labelled as "Heretics, http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/PopesvsChrist ,
because they were committed by "The Office of the HOLY Inquisition.

But you sin in my tongue in cheek post!!!

[blondeatlast]

46. AHA! "But you sin in my tongue in cheek post!!!"

Well, if you can make this proclamation, then I guess we've had you all wrong . . .

May You (Rev. Ray) forgive me. Amen.

[Wonk]

40. All those smiley faces in your post are funny :-) nt

[Liberator_Rev]

45. The smiley faces were an accident, but I left them there because

I found that the links still worked in spite of them, and they were cute.

[Liberator_Rev]

47. Notice how those who hate me can't answer the ARGUMENT!

The point of this thread is that the logic that prompts Catholics TO HATE ME, requires that they condemn Jesus for THE SAME REASONS of being an "anti-Jewish bigot".

And the same logic would justify Freepers in condemning just about everybody here at DU of being un-patriotic traitors, for saying such aweful things about the President of the United States.

( or are THEIR arguments VALID, i.e. that you can't condemn Bush or Republicans because "Democrats aren't saints", "they all do it", "can't you say anything nice about Republicans?, and "blah, blah, blah"?)

All your ad hominem attacks prove to any objective observer that you don't have much of case.

[youngred]

48. You call that an argument?

I'm sorry but that argument is spurious at best.

Try again, and read what I posted above. You're no victim ray.

ON EDIT: All the times you've refused to answer questions or points poised to you you have little right to accuse others of not playing by the rules

[Liberator_Rev]

59. Thanks Young'en for more proof that you can't answer the argument.

[Darranar]

61. There are religious leaders of all kinds...

who are racist, immoral, greedy, powerhungry, ambitious, and plain stupid.

Just because Catholics have them too doesn't mean that Roman Catholicism is so evil.

[youngred]

67. show me a consistant logical argument and I will

until then...

[Liberator_Rev]

93. You've proven that you WONT!

What's the difference between accusing ME of being Satan incarnated, for my criticism of the CATHOLIC hierarchy,
accusing JESUS of being Satan incarnated, for being even harsher than I am, on the JEWISH hierarchy?

[youngred]

94. Friendly neighborhood strawman

Nope I'll talk about the idiocy of the Catholic hierarchy and act to change it til the cows come home. You just don't like it that I won't blanket condemn them and leave like you did.

Read What I wrote to you above or here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=504697&mesg_id=507825&page=

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VOX]

55. Jesus was a regular guy who was struck with cosmic consciousness...

And figured out that "I and the Father are one" -- a sense of connection to a greater ground of being -- an idea which is at the heart of many of the world's beliefs.

His big objection was to public piousness and internal corruption -- a rather universal gripe. His breakaway ideas made him a radical and an outlaw, a threat to the establishment, so he paid a price for claiming to be the boss's son.

Jesus' fatal problem was with the law of the land where he was born and did his thing; had he been born in India, he probably would have merely been told, "Congratulations, young man -- you just figured it out."


edit: typos

[blondeatlast]

70. Great post, RM! My riased-Hindu hubby and I get along great in spritual

matters, now I think I know why.

:toast:

[fla nocount]

78. Great post. Which Unity congregation do you belong to? n/t

*

[Dr Fate]

64. So thats why he preached in Synagogues & celebrated passover!

It's all so CLEAR to me now!!!:eyes:

[Liberator_Rev]

79. It's tongue in cheek, Dr.

The point of this thread is that the logic that prompts Catholics TO HATE ME, requires that they condemn Jesus for THE SAME REASONS of being an "anti-Jewish bigot".

And the same logic would justify Freepers in condemning just about everybody here at DU of being un-patriotic traitors, for saying such aweful things about the President of the United States.

( or are THEIR arguments VALID, i.e. that you can't condemn Bush or Republicans because "Democrats aren't saints", "they all do it", "can't you say anything nice about Republicans?, and "blah, blah, blah"?)

All their ad hominem attacks prove to any objective observer that they have no case.

[blondeatlast]

82. Freepers aren't welcome here, but for some reason, you are.

[Liberator_Rev]

84. Unlike Catholic Bishops, I promote Liberal Democrats!

I fight for equality for Gays and Lesbians, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight for WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE ABORTION, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight for the right of women to be the equals of men when it comes to being altar girls AND PRIESTS, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight for the rights of PRIESTS to marry women , while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight to promote the recognition that the ALL MALE hierarchy has a horrendous record of torturing and killing people, while the Catholic hierarchy (AND YOU) fights to keep that record HIDDEN FROM VIEW.

I fight for to defend the right of Liberal Catholic Democratic public officials to be respected by their own church, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight against the constant deceits of the Christian Coalition and especially against its deceptive "Voter Guides", while the Catholic hierarchy has joined with the Christian Coalition on at least one occasion that I know of -- which proves that they can do it on an even larger scale in the future --.

And YOU have the nerve to associate ME with the Freepers, when its YOUR HIERARCHY that has EARNED THAT PRIVILEGE !!!!

[JNelson6563]

71. Is this the ReligionUnderground??

Why do you think this crap is relevant here? Why do you think this is productive?

It's a little late to try to change your image dude. And dragging all that bible stuff here, oy!!

It's to the point I hafta wonder, why are you even here? What a zealot!

Julie

[Liberator_Rev]

86. Here's why its relevant, Julie

In case you hadn't noticed, whether you like it or NOT, religion has an impact on politics in America, and with 25% of the electorate in their column, the Catholic Church is a very important player in American politics, ESPECIALLY because it has been swinging from largely Democratic to predominantly Republican.

I fight for equality for Gays and Lesbians, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight for WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE ABORTION, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight to promote the recognition that the ALL MALE hierarchy has a horrendous record of torturing and killing people, while the Catholic hierarchy (AND YOU) fights to keep that record HIDDEN FROM VIEW.

I fight for to defend the right of Liberal Catholic Democratic public officials to be respected by their own church, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight against the constant deceits of the Christian Coalition and especially against its deceptive "Voter Guides", while the Catholic hierarchy has joined with the Christian Coalition on at least one occasion that I know of -- which proves that they can do it on an even larger scale in the future --.

[youngred]

87. Yes and we sold weapons to Iraq in the 80s

we did it once we can do it again!

Your blanket condemnations of the clergy is silly Ray. Not every Priest, Bishop, and Cardinal is the dirty conservative caricature you portray.

[JNelson6563]

88. oh please

Don't make it worse by lying. You are a bitter, former priest who regularly misuses this forum for your hate-mongering.

I'm glad I don't hate religion like you hate Catholicsm. To be consumed with such hate is unhealthy as your posting history clearly demonstrates. You could give the Republicans lessons in rationalization.

Every Christian on this board should be outraged by your behavior. You are transparent and I urge the Administrators to put an end to your propagating you personal, hate-filled agenda.

Shameful.

Julie

[Liberator_Rev]

95. Who's "LYING", Julie ?

"Don't make it worse by lying."

What evidence do you have that I am lying ?
I INVITE YOU TO EXPOSE IT HERE AND NOW.
If you CAN'T do that, then YOU, my fair lady, are the one who is 'LYING' by making that basely charge!
"You are a bitter, former priest who regularly misuses this forum for your hate-mongering.
I'm glad I don't hate religion like you hate Catholicsm. To be consumed with such hate is unhealthy as your posting history clearly demonstrates..
Lest I mispeak, are you are an ex-catholic now atheist?
If so, do you also conclude for ALL of the examples of "hateful" speach by Jesus against the JEWISH HIERARCHY that he too was guilty of most of what you accuse ME of????

[JNelson6563]

97. you remind me of Henry VIII

after his break with the Church. He too went to great lengths to show he was a better follower of Jesus than the Pope.

Read a comprehensive biography of him, you will see.

This is not the place to prove to the world your points regarding religion.

Now understand that there is no group that hasn't done it's wrongs. Every religion does its thing and follows its own interpretation of its holy writs. You have a problem with others, that is your problem. Not the readership of DU. I realize that one as self-centered as yourself may not comprehend that there are actually people who are not interested in your "brilliant" reflections regarding Catholicism. It's true.

You're no longer a Catholic. Get over it. Get over yourself. We are not here to discuss your issues.

Julie

[Liberator_Rev]

96. My agenda is no more "hatefilled" than was Jesus's agenda.

I fight for equality for Gays and Lesbians, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight for WOMEN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE ABORTION, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight for the right of women to be the equals of men when it comes to being altar girls AND PRIESTS, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight for the rights of PRIESTS to marry women , while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight to promote the recognition that the ALL MALE hierarchy has a horrendous record of torturing and killing people, while the Catholic hierarchy (AND YOU) fights to keep that record HIDDEN FROM VIEW.

I fight for to defend the right of Liberal Catholic Democratic public officials to be respected by their own church, while the Catholic hierarchy fight AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS.

I fight against the constant deceits of the Christian Coalition and especially against its deceptive "Voter Guides", while the Catholic hierarchy has joined with the Christian Coalition on at least one occasion that I know of -- which proves that they can do it on an even larger scale in the future --.

So, Julie, when you say,
"Every Christian on this board should be outraged by your behavior. You are transparent and I urge the Administrators to put an end to your propagating you personal, hate-filled agenda.", why aren't you calling for the Administrators to put an end to the defense of the Conservative Catholic hierarchy?
Shameful.
The Catholic hieararchy was instrumental in helping a whole slew of NAZI war criminals like Klaus Barbie and Adolf Eichmann escape prosecuation after the NAZI holocaust and you don't think that "Every Christian on this board should be outraged by your behavior," but that this "Liberal Like Christ" should be bannished for trying to educate Catholics and other DU'ers about THAT BEHAVIOR.

Shameful indeed !!!!

See http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/RCscandal

[JNelson6563]

98. Do your preaching elsewhere

Isn't there some religious DB where you can go pontificate?

Mods, I hope you will put an end to this nonsense. This is DemocraticUnderground after all.

Julie

[gully]

72. OMG, how twisted can you get. Jesus was a Jew...

This is outrageous Rev...

[blondeatlast]

73. It's SOP for him.

[Liberator_Rev]

80. It's tongue in cheek, Gully !

The point of this thread is that the logic that prompts Catholics TO HATE ME, requires that they condemn Jesus for THE SAME REASONS of being an "anti-Jewish bigot".

And the same logic would justify Freepers in condemning just about everybody here at DU of being un-patriotic traitors, for saying such aweful things about the President of the United States.

( or are THEIR arguments VALID, i.e. that you can't condemn Bush or Republicans because "Democrats aren't saints", "they all do it", "can't you say anything nice about Republicans?, and "blah, blah, blah"?)

All their ad hominem attacks prove to any objective observer that they have no case.

[nini]

74. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

YOu're my first IGNORE

[Liberator_Rev]

83. Blondatlast exposes her dishonesty !

She protests in post #77 (which I'm not answering directly because she says she is ignoring my posts) "your endless e-mails to me".

I don't email ANYBODY often, let alone "endlessly".

And if ANY of the 1800 people on my list of friends & acquaintances of "Liberals Like Christ" asks to be removed, I'm happy to do so immediately, as you don't make or keep friends by annoying them.

I can count on ONE HAND the number of emails I have sent to that list per year.

Incidentally, anybody (other than Blondatlast) who wants to join the smaller (120 member) [e-mail] can look up the history of posts and find that unlike most such lists, far from dominating the posting as the moderator, I'm a relatively infrequent poster.

[Lars39]

91. You sent me an unsolicited pm griping about the DU admins/mods.

I NEVER signed up for any list of yours, and highly resent receiving your brand of bigotry in my mailbox. And the pm has been forwarded to the admin.

[Liberator_Rev]

99. "Shut him up" isn't the LIBERAL response to disagreement.

When people in power are Conservatives, their response to public speach they disagree with is "shut him/her up".

When people in power are TRUE Liberals, their response to public speach they disagree with is MORE SPEECH, because they are confident that if they are RIGHT, they will prevail, and if they are WRONG, they will be enlightened, and CHANGE their minds.

See how some so-called Liberals here at DU, who can't come up with any answers to my arguments, are constantly attacking me PERSONALLY and when that isn't enough to silence me, are calling for the Moderators to shut me up. (It wouldn't be enough for them to tune me out and ignore my posts. They have to make sure that NOBODY can see or be influenced by me.)

[youngred]

100. or they don't want your half truths to go unchallenged

reply to the questions asked of you please

[TSIAS]

101. Locking

4. If you wish to start a vanity thread (ie: a discussion thread in which the sole purpose is to share your personal opinion) you must state your opinion in a non-inflammatory manner which respects differences in opinion and facilitates actual discussion.

Thanks,
Taylor :)
GD Moderator