Nation of Islam is listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law

[peacebaby3]

Center.

<http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?... >


Louis Farrakhan and Race-Based Hate

In an April 1997 interview, Nation leader Louis Farrakhan made it clear that he had renounced none of the anti-white, anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic or anti-homosexual views of the previous Nation leader, Elijah Mohammed.

Those beliefs include the view that Yacub, a renegade black scientist, created whites 6,600 years ago as an inherently evil and ungodly people — "blue-eyed devils." Farrakhan describes Catholics and Jews, who he says practice a "gutter religion," as preying on blacks. He regrets the "tone" of a principal subordinate who calls for slaughtering white South Africans, but agrees with the message. He calls for racial separatism and inveighs against interracial relationships.

If a white group espoused similar beliefs with the colors reversed, few would have trouble describing it as racist and anti-Semitic. We hesitate with a group like the Nation of Islam because we recognize that its racism is largely a response to white racism.

But as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said: "Violence begets violence; hate begets hate; and toughness begets a greater toughness. It is all a descending spiral, and the end is destruction — for everybody. Along the way of life, someone must have enough sense and morality to cut off the chain of hate."

If we seek to expose white hate groups, we cannot be in the business of explaining away the black ones.

------------------------------------------------------------------

He also has had a cozy relationship in the past with Tom Metzger, a well-known, white-supremacist and leader of the KKK. Farrakhan even accepted a donation from Metzger because they both share the same goals of segregation of the races.

NOI and Farrakhan also are vehemently opposed to homosexuality and are quite vocal about their condemnation.

To each his or her own, but I think all the info should be made available so people can make their own, informed decision about supporting this group.

[acmavm]

1. Interesting. Was someone trying to argue that Louis isn't a crack pot?

I mean, he's no different than he ever was.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Some Of What He Has Said Is Dispiriting

But none of us are beyond redemption...

[Ferret Annica]

53. Leaders deserve no mercy when they infect others with hate

And Nation leader Louis Farrakhan is no exception. He is a racist, and should be treated like one.

[LostinVA]

51. There was a thread on here several days ago

Where several people were saying Farrakhan had never said certain things (anti-Semitic, homophobic) or at least was misinterpreted.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Well

I'm not a big fan of Farrakhan but he has abandoned much of the incendiary racist rhetoric...


As for homosexuality they allowed a gay speaker at today's events....


I'm an old school liberal... I rather build brides to groups like this than blow em up....

[kweerwolf]

47. Actually, it wasn't a "gay" speaker ...

He was from a group called Black Male Exchange (BMX). They identify themselves as "same-gender loving" and reject the term "gay" because they associated with privileged white males.

[pschoeb]

48. What dumb fucks they are then

The term gay, instead of homosexual or faggot, was started in 1969 by the Gay Liberation Front, who were staunch supporters of the Black Panthers.

[Walt Starr]

4. I consider it a hate group, too

go figure. :shrug:

[IndyOp]

5. Your link doesn't work!

[peacebaby3]

10. Sorry! It doesn't seem to let you link directly to the particular article.

I just did a search for Nation of Islam and found plenty of info. I have worked with SPLC and other organizations in the past and knew NOI is considered a hate group.

If Farrakhan changes, I'm willing to listen but IMO, he has a long, long way to go to escape his past.

[I Have A Dream]

36. Try this.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=448

[peacebaby3]

40. Hmmm...that looks the same as my original link. I wonder why it worked

now but didn't in the original post?

Glad you got it to work. Thanks!

[I Have A Dream]

41. There appears to be a space before the question mark in yours. n/t

[peacebaby3]

46. Ah, yes. I see it now. Thought I copied and pasted, but must have

accidentally added a space. Probably would have never noticed.

Good catch. Thanks again!

[CatWoman]

6. fuck it. let's bomb them. they deserve no less

:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I Think There's A Middle Ground As I Indicated

Peace

[CatWoman]

9. I was just being a witch

:D

I appreciate your comments above :D

[IndyOp]

7. Link to Southern Poverty Law Center's articles on Nation of Islam

<http://www.splcenter.org/search/s-query.html?tx0=Nation+of+Islam&op0=%2B&fl0=&ty0=w&col=splcall&ht=0&qp=&qt=&qs=&qc=&pw=100%25&la=en&qm=0&st=1&oq=&rq=0&ql=a&si=0&x=37&y=6>

[Pepper32]

11. Who needs the media to discredit the MMM....

when you have threads like this? :party:

[IndyOp]

13. Pepper - LOL - Go recommend the following thread or post one of your

own - People should watch the MMM for themselves tonight on C-Span! - there were MANY speakers - not just Farrakhan - and what Farrakhan said today was GOOD.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=104>

[Pepper32]

14. Did that about 10 minutes ago.

I agree everyone needs to watch it! It may change their views.

I recorded most of it to DVD. :)

[IndyOp]

16. Thanks! (nt)

[Pepper32]

19. NP (eom)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Most Of His Speech Was Good

But I take exception to the "liberal plantation" argument....


I'm a liberal and I don't think social programs have created a plantation type atmosphere for anybody...

That argument is pure Clarence Thomas and Rush Limbaugh... That liberal whites want to keep blacks in indefinite servitude by making them reliant on governmental largesse....


Plus it paints a picture of the black man as poor and broke... Most black folks are solidly middle class... Much needs to be done to bring up those left behind but it not beyond our grasp...

[Maat]

23. I think that rhetoric is complete crud;

'Star Parker' is their token black female on the right spouting this junk.

This retired social worker agrees that we need a strong social net - one that effectively helps both the working and non-working poor, and their children, advance educationally and get adequate medical care.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. That's The Trick...

How to determine who needs help and how to calibrate the safety net so it's a trampoline and a cushion....


Bobby Kennedy had it right.... The best thing you can do for a person in need is give them a job and some hope...

[Maat]

28. Yep, and to ensure that they will be able to keep that job ..

some assistance up front for awhile, such as medical insurance, child care assistance, and transportation assistance.

[ultraist]

43. Most Black folks are solidly middle class?

Where did get that info? 24% of Blacks are in poverty. Nearly HALF of African American children live in poverty compared to the national poverty rate of 17% for all children.

The median income for Blacks is around 35k compared to 53k for whites.

The Black middle class has hardly grown since 1980.

The average networth of a white family is 80k. The average networth of a Black family is 6k.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. 24% Of African Americans Live Below The Poverty Line As Do 8% Of Whites!

That means 76% of black folks and 92% of white folks live above the poverty line....


That's a difference that should be eradicated but my post was to dispel the notion that the average black man is poor and broke and living on the dole... That notion is busllshit...

[ultraist]

54. Above the poverty line does not equal "solidly middle class"

You are leaving out a couple of quintiles: low income and lower middle class. (Those that are very close to slipping into poverty).

Solidly middle class is in the 50k range.

I noticed that you didn't answer as to where you got that info that the "majority of Blacks are solidly middle class."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. I Was Using Hyperbole To Defeat Hyperbole

I wanted to crush the notion that the black man is poor and broke and living off welfare....


I'll bet if you asked the avergae man in the street the percentages of African Americans living in poverty and on welfare the percentages would be wildly exaggerated....

[ultraist]

58. It depends on how you frame the question

I'd bet that if you asked the average man in the street if they think Blacks have equal opportunity to be successful, or even be middle class, they'd say, "well of course, just look at Oprah and Michael Jordan!" Of course, in absolute denial about the gaps between Blacks and whites that are a result of ongoing racism.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Of Course

I hope you see my point... My point is that while there are still too many blacks and browns among the poor most black and Hispanic folks are employed and making a "decent" living and some are doing quite well.....


The challenge is to bring up those left behind....


I have a question about the net savings figure you cited... Does that include home equity, 401Ks, and stuff like that?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. Of Course

I hope you see my point... My point is that while there are still too many blacks and browns among the poor most black and Hispanic folks are employed and making a "decent" living and some are doing quite well.....


The challenge is to bring up those left behind....


I have a question about the net savings figure you cited... Does that include home equity, 401Ks, and stuff like that?

[countryjake]

21. Indy, your link doesn't work!

Where's the other post? I've only seen a bunch of crap condemning the March and don't have time to go looking.

[peacebaby3]

24. Apparently, you are not able to link directly to articles on SPLC.

Go to: <http://www.splcenter.org>

You will see a place in the top right-hand corner with a link to do a "search." Just do a search for Nation Of Islam and you will see a lot of articles and info from SPLC.

[countryjake]

26. Don't give two hoots what Southern Poverty Law thinks...

I want to know what 1.8 Million Marching Americans had to say today! It's Indy's link that I was asking about, not yours! The topic that she recommended is the one I'm interested in and her link takes me to the General Discussion page, not one specific topic.

[peacebaby3]

27. Why are you so incredibly rude?!?!

There are several threads on the GD page about the march. They are easy to find.

[countryjake]

29. I first asked a civil question, then further explained that question.

How was I rude? You responded to my post that was directed to IndyOp and I answered you.

[countryjake]

31. And here's the correct link, after all...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5070727&mesg_id=5070727

[peacebaby3]

32. When I see exclamation marks, I consider it yelling/screaming.

If you didn't mean it that way, no problem. Just a misunderstanding.

As for replying to your post, I apologize. I thought you were asking about the other links that had not been working correctly.

[countryjake]

33. Well, your link didn't work either...

but I honestly have no interest in going there. Sorry that you misread what I was saying; no offense intended! (And I'm not shouting!)

[peacebaby3]

34. LOL. If you get the chance, you should check out the SPLC even if you do

not agree with their position on NOI. They do some really great work regarding civil rights, indigent defense, discrimination against immigrants, etc.

You might enjoy reading some of their information and case work if you ever have a chance.

Have a nice evening. :)

[Pepper32]

30. This link should work.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5070727

[I Have A Dream]

38. Here's the original link.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=448

[KingFlorez]

12. I don't see it as a hate group

NOI hasn't ever actually advocated for the extermination of a group of people and doesn't advocate violence.

[NNN0LHI]

15. Louis (Aka "The Charmer") never gets credit for his Calypso Singing career

http://www.fadetoblack.com/farrakhan/

In a biography entitled "Prophet of Rage: A Life of Louis Farrakhan and His Nation" {1996 HarperCollins Publishing} the author Arthur J. Magida briefly touches on an obscure fact that in the 1950's Louis Farrakhan was a Calypso Singer who went under the name "The Charmer" {Page 29}.

Although unfamiliar with Calypso music we had a hunch that these recordings would be rich with comedic possibilities.... we were not wrong.

So, we donned our grass skirts, grabbed our favorite maracas, put on our Carmen Miranda headsets, and dove into the world of Calypso music. We called hundreds of antique record stores across the country, dug through countless bargain bins and placed numerous 'want ads' in search of any and all recordings by "The Charmer".

After a six month search, we were able to find only three albums with music by "The Charmer". ("The Charmer", "Calypsos Too Hot To Handle" and "Calypsos from the West Indies.") After purchasing the albums (from people oblivious to whom "The Charmer" really was) we digitized all the songs and now bring them out of obscurity.

[CatWoman]

17. Now that's the final straw!!!!!

a calypso singer???

this bastard must go!!!!!!

[goclark]

20. CatWoman you really know how to bat flies!

[ButterflyBlood]

22. I agree with their designation

Nation of Islam is the Islamic version of Christian Identity, just with another race.

[I Have A Dream]

35. Here's the link that works.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=448

[jzodda]

37. I agree with that: That dude is a nutcase, racist and asshole

That nutcase has said more racist comments then can be counted over the years. His hatred of Jews especially.

A hate group is a hategroup is a hategroup. Does not matter what race is doing the hating.

[Arkana]

39. Farrakhan is fucking crazy

Extremism, no matter what side of the aisle, is a frightening thing.

[goclark]

42. Did you watch the speech today

or are you basing your opinion on the past?

I recall that Harriett Miers believed that GWBush is "brilliant."

Now if anybody is "crazy" let's have Harriett look in the mirror.

[ultraist]

45. Obviously they are---and the 1997 quote in the OP

Farrakhan did not say anything racist today, in fact it was an incredible speech, very inspiring!

[Pepper32]

44. You obviously didn't watch the MMM

Farrakhan had nothing hateful to say about any race.

He only spoke out against the Bush crime family. Who in the hell has a problem with that?

Come to think of it, can anyone provide a link to anything hateful Farrakhan has said in the last 5yrs? For research purposes... :)

[entanglement]

50. Farrakhan has come a long way

People change (Senator Robert Byrd ?) I don't agree with all he says, but I strongly believe the people who are attacking him have hidden motives. He's a man committed to improving the lot of Black people and has my respect for that

[itzamirakul]

52. Well, I will continue to support the SPLC financially...for awhile,

at least. But until they or someone else comes up with a better plan that Farrakhan has presented I continue to support his organizational plans thought the Millions More Movement.

I didn't hear Kerry or Edwards or Hillary or any of the Dems that I vote for regularly address concerns that are important to me, yet I swallowed their koolade and pulled the lever next to their names. Where are the plans, Dems? Where is the backbone? Farrakhan has shown more backbone than ALL of our Democratic leaders put together.

And why shouldn't he have a say? After all the DLC is full of Repubs who pass themselves off as Dems, lie to our faces, yet we don't condemn them with as much ferocity as we show this man.I can't help but wonder why so many people actually FEAR LF as much as they seem to. What is it about him that makes white Americans so fearful and black Americans so willing to condemn?

And for the record...I am not Muslim.

BTW, Scientologists believe that Aliens infest our bodies but I don't hear too much yelling about them being crazy. In fact, some of us spend good money to go watch them in movies. (I understand that Travolta and Cruise have "cleared out their Aliens. So maybe LF is working on clearing out his "blue-eyed demons.")

As far as cutting the chain of hate...perhaps it is time for white America to cut that chain instead of always expecting black America to be the forgiving ones. Hell, we have had over four hundred years of turning the other cheek and forgiving the sins of others.

Edit for spelling

[BiggJawn]

55. It amazes me....

If this thread was about a White Supremacist group like the Hammerskins or the KKK, we'd all be in one accord in our condemnation.

But since it's Louis Farrakhan and he "Has a Reason" to be so filled with hate, he gets a pass and we debate whether or not the SPLC is out of their minds or not...

Oh, yes, if I say anything against the NOI, it's NOT because they call me the blue-eyed (wrong, they're grey) evil result of a mad doctor's "experiment" and preach Black Supremacy and Seperation, it's because they're Black and I'm not.

Perhaps if the KKK held a Million Bubba March we'd think more kindly of them?

[Neil Lisst]

57. BiggJawn, you're absolutely right.

The parsing and rationalizations that go into defending Farrakan's seedier actions and beliefs remind me of the Southerners who like to extol the virtues of Jefferson Davis or Robert E. Lee, ignoring what they really did.

I saw his speech yesterday, and he said some things that were worthy of hearing. But when he launches from empathy with poverty stricken and maltreated blacks to recommending a course of action, that is where I diverge. I heard what he said. He said the Democrats don't listen to you, don't care about it, and mistreat you. That is what he said, and since this is Democratic site, I wouldn't think the members here would be equivocal on that point.

Farrakhan or Zell Miller, peas in a pod if they're telling voters not to vote Dem.

[bridgit]

59. yes sir, otherwise noble 'parse & nuance' can introduce a form of...

myopia imo with respect to a host of subjects clearly cross-threaded into the fabric of civil discourse i can say no more :hide: